I've noticed that we haven't had any cards in Ixalan block, Dominaria, and now M19 with Prowess. Prowess was on the list of new evergreen mechanics alongside Menace and Scry, which we've had plenty of representation since.
Does this mean we're going to see a change to the evergreen mechanics we get moving forward? What are your thoughts on this?
I personally liked Prowess
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
MaRo has fielded a number of questions about Prowess specifically. There has been no sign of overall changes to Evergreen mechanics *except* for Prowess and it is potentially looking like Prowess may eventually not be Evergreen.
Would suck if Prowess lost the evergreen status. I love that mechanic.
What about when the new Ravnica set comes out? The first set focuses on the Izzet guild. Would suck if they didn't have some prowess wizards, especially since there's some really good wizards in Dominaria and Core 19.
The Wizard deck is going to lose Soul-Scar Mage, currently the best one drop in the deck with prowess, so it's going to suck if it doesn't get a replacement.
Would be sick with a reprint of Stormchaser mage
Well ****, UB finally gets Flash as an overlap and now we're going to be looking for a new UR overlap? *sigh*
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Prowess is funny enough a somewhat complicated mechanic (to newbies that is) and mechanics that use +1/+1 counters might be preferred.
I see a bunch of newbie players that use +1/+1 counters on Prowess creatures to remember the +1/+1 effect, and thats just quite a mess if you have to explain to them that counters are something different.
I could see them keywording the effect of "When you cast an instant or sorcery, <this> gets +1/+1 UEOT" like in Blistercoil Weird. Or maybe they'll keyword the phrase "Whenever you case an instant or sorcery spell" as a lot of those effects are found on Izzet-type cards. It'd be ideal for that guild considering we ARE coming up to a Ravnica-heavy season come the fall.
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HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I would feel quite frustrated if they fell back on UR instants and sorceries; Prowess works not only with those but also artifacts, enchantments, and even planeswalkers. It's one thing if they don't use prowess because they have a different theme for UR, like energy or Raid, and since I've been a fan of UR artifactthemes I can understand whentheydoUR spells, but it pains me to see UR lose a nice general theme like noncreature spells.
This tells me that Izzet is probably gonna be frickin' instants and sorceries again even though they have fantastic potential to branch out beyond that. I would rather they at least use a mechanic like Surge so Izzet can finally get some creature presence outside multicolor.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Tbh UR shouldn't have the theme of non-creature spells in general. UR is supposed to be instants, sorceries and artifacts (and personally I think they should give artifacts to RW because it really needs something but that's a different story). They should probably start saying "instant, sorcery or artifact spell" on those kinds of triggers.
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I kinda sad I like prowess but can see how it fights for space. I'd say push it to deciduous maybe, that way design can use it if needed (like a cycle or to push a blue card) but it doesn't need to be in every set or fight for set mechanics.
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I don't see why they keyworded Prowess in the first place. Like unblockable, there are too many variations of the ability to justify keywording only one. I think it should be dropped altogether.
That leaves UR and UB still without evergreen creature keywords, but what else is new.
I don't see why they keyworded Prowess in the first place. Like unblockable, there are too many variations of the ability to justify keywording only one. I think it should be dropped altogether.
That leaves UR and UB still without evergreen creature keywords, but what else is new.
I don't know that there were that many variations. Either it was all noncreatures or it was Instants and Sorceries.
And UB seems to be leaning towards Flash as its shared Keyword.
I don't see why they keyworded Prowess in the first place. Like unblockable, there are too many variations of the ability to justify keywording only one. I think it should be dropped altogether.
Well, it did start as the factionmechanicfor the Jeskai Way, so it was keyworded from the beginning. You're thinking evergreen. Prowess is one specific mechanic. And at the time, they liked how it played, and so did a lot of players. Unfortunately, the drive to use it has faded over time as other mechanics keep taking the UR slot. Sometimes they want to focus UR on artifacts, other times instants and sorceries, and once in a while they'll focus it on a set mechanic.
I don't think Prowess is a bad mechanic for UR, they just keep coming up with other things they want UR to do instead.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I don't know that there were that many variations. Either it was all noncreatures or it was Instants and Sorceries.
And UB seems to be leaning towards Flash as its shared Keyword.
It's more than that, though.
"Whenever you cast a noncreature spell..."
"Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell..."
"Whenever you cast an artifact spell..."
"Whenever you cast an enchantment spell..."
"...this creature gets +N/+N until end of turn."
"...this creature gets +N/+0 until end of turn."
"...this creature gains keyword until end of turn."
"...creatures you control get +N/+N//+N/+0//gain keyword until end of turn"
"...do some other effect."
The possibilities for a keyword that plays of noncreature spells, even when limited to +N/+N effects, are numerous. +1/+1 may have been the best standardization of the ability across many creatures, but there have been more than enough alternative effects to prove that it doesn't deserve a keyword.
I think it works on cards like Hired Blade and could work for most ninjas (Ninjutsu as a skill was similar to flash,) because sneaky assassin types seem very at home in black or U/B. Royal Assassin ambushes creatures in a very different way than Hired Blade does; not being seen and then being suddenly seen when it's too late works perfectly with flash, minus the fact that you are a planeswalker casting this spell at instant speed. An assassin flavorfully operates very similar to how King Cheetah hunts for his food, I guess.
I don't see why they keyworded Prowess in the first place. Like unblockable, there are too many variations of the ability to justify keywording only one. I think it should be dropped altogether.
That leaves UR and UB still without evergreen creature keywords, but what else is new.
I don't know that there were that many variations. Either it was all noncreatures or it was Instants and Sorceries.
And UB seems to be leaning towards Flash as its shared Keyword.
Flash is still secondary in green as well as black, so we're not exactly there right now, but it looks like it could be the case if they at least push it so green is lower end of secondary and black is higher.
Super annoyed at the (apparent) drop of Prowess. It figures that one of the only good 'in character' things to put on UR creatures, would be 'problematic'.
Super annoyed at the (apparent) drop of Prowess. It figures that one of the only good 'in character' things to put on UR creatures, would be 'problematic'.
Let's be fair- prowess is an odd evergreen mechanic. It's more strategically specific than the other mechanics, which don't really have any build around element like prowess does. And in doing so, it interacts with set themes.
So it's not all that surprising that they are strongly considering dropping it.
I don't see why they keyworded Prowess in the first place. Like unblockable, there are too many variations of the ability to justify keywording only one. I think it should be dropped altogether.
That leaves UR and UB still without evergreen creature keywords, but what else is new.
I don't know that there were that many variations. Either it was all noncreatures or it was Instants and Sorceries.
And UB seems to be leaning towards Flash as its shared Keyword.
Flash is still secondary in green as well as black, so we're not exactly there right now, but it looks like it could be the case if they at least push it so green is lower end of secondary and black is higher.
I think they're more likely to do something similar to creature pumping, where Green gets flash on big dudes that might just eat a guy, and black gets flash on small dudes that are most likely to trade. Stuff like Ambush Viper is probably going to move out of green, while stuff like Swift Warden and Snapping Sailback are more of what we'd expect out of green.
Super annoyed at the (apparent) drop of Prowess. It figures that one of the only good 'in character' things to put on UR creatures, would be 'problematic'.
Let's be fair- prowess is an odd evergreen mechanic. It's more strategically specific than the other mechanics, which don't really have any build around element like prowess does. And in doing so, it interacts with set themes.
So it's not all that surprising that they are strongly considering dropping it.
While fair, that speaks to why I don't play standard. The play style prowess pushes, is one of the very few things creature related that I would play for.
Super annoyed at the (apparent) drop of Prowess. It figures that one of the only good 'in character' things to put on UR creatures, would be 'problematic'.
Let's be fair- prowess is an odd evergreen mechanic. It's more strategically specific than the other mechanics, which don't really have any build around element like prowess does. And in doing so, it interacts with set themes.
So it's not all that surprising that they are strongly considering dropping it.
It has a built-in A+B problem.
I think flash in black might be tertiary, TBH. Same place it is in white.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Prowess is funny enough a somewhat complicated mechanic (to newbies that is) and mechanics that use +1/+1 counters might be preferred.
I see a bunch of newbie players that use +1/+1 counters on Prowess creatures to remember the +1/+1 effect, and thats just quite a mess if you have to explain to them that counters are something different.
I don't tend to see counters for temporary until eot +1/+1 but anything that gives a static and persistent +1/+1 is very confusing. On top of that you have some cards which mix the two, which seems like a big mistake to me -- eg High Sentinels of Arashin. It's one little embellishment from being an unserious card IMO.
Super annoyed at the (apparent) drop of Prowess. It figures that one of the only good 'in character' things to put on UR creatures, would be 'problematic'.
Let's be fair- prowess is an odd evergreen mechanic. It's more strategically specific than the other mechanics, which don't really have any build around element like prowess does. And in doing so, it interacts with set themes.
So it's not all that surprising that they are strongly considering dropping it.
It has a built-in A+B problem.
I think flash in black might be tertiary, TBH. Same place it is in white.
Black flash should really be a variant that only lets you flash in during combat to emphasize the "stealth assassin" theme. I realize simplicity overrides that idea but as is I think they're more concerned with solving a technical problem than keeping the color identities where they should be. Incidentally, that would also potentially save a bunch of clicks online since holding the creature wouldn't constitute holding an instant.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
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Does this mean we're going to see a change to the evergreen mechanics we get moving forward? What are your thoughts on this?
I personally liked Prowess
'buster
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What about when the new Ravnica set comes out? The first set focuses on the Izzet guild. Would suck if they didn't have some prowess wizards, especially since there's some really good wizards in Dominaria and Core 19.
The Wizard deck is going to lose Soul-Scar Mage, currently the best one drop in the deck with prowess, so it's going to suck if it doesn't get a replacement.
Would be sick with a reprint of Stormchaser mage
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Black flash feels so wrong ...
Prowess is funny enough a somewhat complicated mechanic (to newbies that is) and mechanics that use +1/+1 counters might be preferred.
I see a bunch of newbie players that use +1/+1 counters on Prowess creatures to remember the +1/+1 effect, and thats just quite a mess if you have to explain to them that counters are something different.
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Perhaps Blue needs something more like a modified Bloodthirst or Raid.
Evocation N (If you cast an Instant or a Sorcery this turn, this permanent enters the battlefield with N +1/+1 counters on it.)
Transmutation When this card enters the battlefield, if you cast an Instant or Sorcery this turn, put a +1/+1 counter on this card.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
This tells me that Izzet is probably gonna be frickin' instants and sorceries again even though they have fantastic potential to branch out beyond that. I would rather they at least use a mechanic like Surge so Izzet can finally get some creature presence outside multicolor.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
-Chandra Nalaar
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
That leaves UR and UB still without evergreen creature keywords, but what else is new.
And UB seems to be leaning towards Flash as its shared Keyword.
Well, it did start as the faction mechanic for the Jeskai Way, so it was keyworded from the beginning. You're thinking evergreen. Prowess is one specific mechanic. And at the time, they liked how it played, and so did a lot of players. Unfortunately, the drive to use it has faded over time as other mechanics keep taking the UR slot. Sometimes they want to focus UR on artifacts, other times instants and sorceries, and once in a while they'll focus it on a set mechanic.
I don't think Prowess is a bad mechanic for UR, they just keep coming up with other things they want UR to do instead.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
"Whenever you cast a noncreature spell..."
"Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell..."
"Whenever you cast an artifact spell..."
"Whenever you cast an enchantment spell..."
"...this creature gets +N/+N until end of turn."
"...this creature gets +N/+0 until end of turn."
"...this creature gains keyword until end of turn."
"...creatures you control get +N/+N//+N/+0//gain keyword until end of turn"
"...do some other effect."
The possibilities for a keyword that plays of noncreature spells, even when limited to +N/+N effects, are numerous. +1/+1 may have been the best standardization of the ability across many creatures, but there have been more than enough alternative effects to prove that it doesn't deserve a keyword.
I think it works on cards like Hired Blade and could work for most ninjas (Ninjutsu as a skill was similar to flash,) because sneaky assassin types seem very at home in black or U/B. Royal Assassin ambushes creatures in a very different way than Hired Blade does; not being seen and then being suddenly seen when it's too late works perfectly with flash, minus the fact that you are a planeswalker casting this spell at instant speed. An assassin flavorfully operates very similar to how King Cheetah hunts for his food, I guess.
Flash is still secondary in green as well as black, so we're not exactly there right now, but it looks like it could be the case if they at least push it so green is lower end of secondary and black is higher.
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Spirits
Let's be fair- prowess is an odd evergreen mechanic. It's more strategically specific than the other mechanics, which don't really have any build around element like prowess does. And in doing so, it interacts with set themes.
So it's not all that surprising that they are strongly considering dropping it.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
While fair, that speaks to why I don't play standard. The play style prowess pushes, is one of the very few things creature related that I would play for.
Spirits
It has a built-in A+B problem.
I think flash in black might be tertiary, TBH. Same place it is in white.
On phasing:
I don't tend to see counters for temporary until eot +1/+1 but anything that gives a static and persistent +1/+1 is very confusing. On top of that you have some cards which mix the two, which seems like a big mistake to me -- eg High Sentinels of Arashin. It's one little embellishment from being an unserious card IMO.
Black flash should really be a variant that only lets you flash in during combat to emphasize the "stealth assassin" theme. I realize simplicity overrides that idea but as is I think they're more concerned with solving a technical problem than keeping the color identities where they should be. Incidentally, that would also potentially save a bunch of clicks online since holding the creature wouldn't constitute holding an instant.
Not a hard A+B to meet. It only requires that your deck runs noncreature spells as well as creatures with Prowess.
Maro has recently stated that Flash is now secondary in black. It's still secondary in green and tertiary in red and white. Just look at Whisper Agent; it's effectively what a UB "vanilla" Flash creature is going to be like, save for the added Surveil.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.