Oh pleease i hope they never have the terrible idea to do western theme !
I cant stand anything related to that !
Oh, but think of the possibilities. Demon and vampire bankers and robber barons, angel lawmen who are ultimately disillusioned by said demons, old burial grounds, Indians having "fasting" cards that hurt you slightly now but help you a lot when you've done it for enough turns...
I can see a card like
Dead Man's Hand2UB
Enchantment
All players play with their hands revealed.
If a player has two cards with converted mana cost equal to 1 and two cards with converted mana cost equal to 8, that player loses the game.
"You know, if he'd cheated, he probably would've drawn a better hand."
—Zujaja, Sheriff of the Shadowlands
(Now, bonus points if you can figure out where I came up with the name.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
...Western-themed, huh? Honestly, I have a hard time imagining that.
Not because of mechanical considerations, mind you. I can imagine using an inverse-vehicle/pseudo-licid ability for Mounts. I can imagine using tribes of centaurs as native american stand-ins. I can even imagine Wizards bringing back the clash mechanic to represent quick-draw skills on gunslingers.
What I can't imagine is what Western-world would look like. Most Westerns that I am familiar with deal with the personal stories of one or a few individuals (or a small township at most) and the general aesthetic tends toward small communities surrounded by wilderness. Most magic stories, meanwhile, involve sprawling set-pieces and world-shaking problems. While it might work, you'd have to bend over backwards for a western feel to carry over...
...For example, a world that is largely devastated by generic evil force (magic corruption/demons/zombies/etc.) with all of human civilization contained within a network of tiny communities protected by magical barriers (like Amonkhet's Hekma). The only creatures to travel between these communities (to communicate, exchange supplies, etc) are the mounted and well-armed gunslingers of the plane. A single posse of bandits (all of the evil legends required by the set) have been subverted by an evil force from another plane (such as Bolas or a representative who is exchanging advanced firearms for loyal service) to claim an artifact protected by centaurs (who are also at war with the gunslingers) that will either grant control over the generic evil force or destroy the final human settlements.
...Western-themed, huh? Honestly, I have a hard time imagining that.
Not because of mechanical considerations, mind you. I can imagine using an inverse-vehicle/pseudo-licid ability for Mounts. I can imagine using tribes of centaurs as native american stand-ins. I can even imagine Wizards bringing back the clash mechanic to represent quick-draw skills on gunslingers.
What I can't imagine is what Western-world would look like. Most Westerns that I am familiar with deal with the personal stories of one or a few individuals (or a small township at most) and the general aesthetic tends toward small communities surrounded by wilderness. Most magic stories, meanwhile, involve sprawling set-pieces and world-shaking problems. While it might work, you'd have to bend over backwards for a western feel to carry over...
...For example, a world that is largely devastated by generic evil force (magic corruption/demons/zombies/etc.) with all of human civilization contained within a network of tiny communities protected by magical barriers (like Amonkhet's Hekma). The only creatures to travel between these communities (to communicate, exchange supplies, etc) are the mounted and well-armed gunslingers of the plane. A single posse of bandits (all of the evil legends required by the set) have been subverted by an evil force from another plane (such as Bolas or a representative who is exchanging advanced firearms for loyal service) to claim an artifact protected by centaurs (who are also at war with the gunslingers) that will either grant control over the generic evil force or destroy the final human settlements.
I understand where you are coming from but I think in general wizards has just kept that the status quo. I understand that the game is about conflict, but that doesn't always equal a gigantic war or the world exploding. In Aether Revolt I found the battle between Lilianna and Tezzeret more interesting than the whole revolution. I think it would actually be pretty nice for them to create a set of characters who were dealing with a villainous gang and have the rest of the set be about placing us in the world. The last four blocks have ended with a gigantic earth-shattering battle and for me it would be nice for them to scale back and forth more which I think is going to happen with Ixalan.
Given that we've got Mesoamerican Colonialism going on, I think the Western set will probably whenever we return to Ixalan.
It seems pretty easy to get the core themes into magic, also. Gideon is working as local law enforcement in a sparsely populated rural region where multiple cultures mix. Some evil planeswalker rides through town and kills a couple of folks, off to... I don't know, steal magic cows or something. Gideon and company chase the evil walker(s). Three quarters of the plot is then grunting or dramatic drone-shots of people riding a horse through the country.
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Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
Gideon and Chandra both would fit into a Western setting quite nicely, I think. Gideon's obviously the Iron Lawman while Chandra's the hotshot pyroslinger. Then of course you have to have the BR Desperado PW, and maybe a weather-themed GU PW who can rain dance or somesuch. A Naga, perhaps? Of course this would also be a good opportunity to print a Centaur or Minotaur PW.
I like the prospect of BR Coyotefolk as Goblin stand-ins, given how Coyotes in the past have been associated with slapstick comedy often involving explosions, falling, and being flattened. GW Centaurs and RW Minotaurs fit given their horse and bull motifs, BG Rattlesnake Naga would be unique, and Aven can occur in both WU Eagle and UB Vulture styles, the Eagles being proud sky warriors and law enforcers, the Vultures cunning opportunists, and where they overlap in blue they can be couriers.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Gideon and Chandra both would fit into a Western setting quite nicely, I think. Gideon's obviously the Iron Lawman while Chandra's the hotshot pyroslinger. Then of course you have to have the BR Desperado PW, and maybe a weather-themed GU PW who can rain dance or somesuch. A Naga, perhaps? Of course this would also be a good opportunity to print a Centaur or Minotaur PW.
I like the prospect of BR Coyotefolk as Goblin stand-ins, given how Coyotes in the past have been associated with slapstick comedy often involving explosions, falling, and being flattened. GW Centaurs and RW Minotaurs fit given their horse and bull motifs, BG Rattlesnake Naga would be unique, and Aven can occur in both WU Eagle and UB Vulture styles, the Eagles being proud sky warriors and law enforcers, the Vultures cunning opportunists, and where they overlap in blue they can be couriers.
I kinda like the idea, but please, no more native walkers.
...Back then, I made an idea of Wild West inspired Stavado world for Collaborative-Create-a-Booster forum game and it turned out pretty well. It was adventure world such as Ixalan or pre-Eldrazi Zendikar - just more character-centric rather than plot/politics-centric. For me, it would be totally fine to see a block mostly about legendary creatures rather than planeswalkers cause I kinda tired of them in every set ("you need to be a planeswalker to take place in the story" paradigm really sucks, man - we ended up to have a tons of native walkers who don't planeswalk which kinda ruins the entire idea of being a planeswalker... Oh wait, it didn't end yet.) And yes, it was a gold-themed set, such as Ixalan again. Gold is a main resource of Wild West so of course a plot could be about rivalry between gold diggers (civilization) and wild tribes who want to protect the nature. Seems fine if you ask me.
I kinda like the idea, but please, no more native walkers.
That's racist. /s
Why wouldn't a PW native to the plane be involved in a story on that plane? For that matter, why can't the native PW start out a legendary creature, like say a desperado who gets chased into a mine, blows up the passage behind them, and almost gets buried, only to spark and walk to a new world? As for the GU rain dancing Naga, they could be from another world, especially since the rattlesnake-based Naga of Western World would more likely be BG, making the rain dancer a bit of an outsider. Likewise a Centaur or Minotaur PW could easily be from Theros, Ravnica, or any other worlds where their races are known to exist.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Oh pleease i hope they never have the terrible idea to do western theme !
I cant stand anything related to that !
Oh, but think of the possibilities. Demon and vampire bankers and robber barons, angel lawmen who are ultimately disillusioned by said demons, old burial grounds, Indians having "fasting" cards that hurt you slightly now but help you a lot when you've done it for enough turns...
I can see a card like
Dead Man's Hand2UB
Enchantment
All players play with their hands revealed.
If a player has two cards with converted mana cost equal to 1 and two cards with converted mana cost equal to 8, that player loses the game.
"You know, if he'd cheated, he probably would've drawn a better hand."
—Zujaja, Sheriff of the Shadowlands
(Now, bonus points if you can figure out where I came up with the name.)
Related, going blogatog Maro hasn't updated the short list in awhile but many things on it cross over, a few other things have been crossed off;
It’s a list of ideas for new planes that are often requested and Wizards is aware of. They include, among others:
Egyptian World (Amonkhet)
Fairy Tale World
High fantasy/”Camelot” World
Indian World (Kaladesh?)
Meso-American World (Ixalan)
Murder Mystery/Noir World
Pirate World (Ixalan)
Prehistoric World
Prison World
Roman World
Sky World
Steampunk World (Kaladesh)
Underground World
Viking/Norse World
Water World
Wild West-Inspired World
So the next few worlds might also include;
Fairy Tale World (I want this so bad), High fantasy/”Camelot” World, Murder Mystery/Noir World, Prehistoric World, Prison World, Roman World,Sky World, Underground World and/or Water World.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I don't get the taboo around guns in fantasy. It's not like it's super high-tech for fantasy. It's pretty old tech. Most swords portrait in Fantasy settings may be higher tech than early firearms. We have cannons in MTG. Guns are just handsized cannons. Magical guns is also part of fantasy as much as magical bows. We had cars and basically flying battleships in Kaladesh. It would be cool to see a technology x magic theme.
Wild West could make a nod to Eternal card game. That setting has minotaurs, dinosaurs, monks, and stuff with gunslingers and Wild West feel. Nagas, elves, orcs, liches, or whatever in the Wild West can be done. It's not like we have to take those settings seriously.
I'd like an ancient aliens type of set. Where the visiting planewalkers are regarded as dieities to the indigenous. Cause they yknow, have magic powers and can disappear at will. Also theyd look different. So this would probably just a goblins and such 'monsters' type of place.
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Wanted -Zombie Foils and older expensive Zombie stuff. High Priority- Beta Z Master/ Int. Collector's Edition.
My solution for Western is Spellshots, basically projectiles thrown with gauntlets. Imagine a spellslinger prepping a fireball spellshot, glowing orange in his hand. Or the gauntlet has six capsules loaded around it in a revolving cylinder, each containing a burst of flame that can be fired from the gauntlet. Essentially, the hand is the gun.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Related, going blogatog Maro hasn't updated the short list in awhile but many things on it cross over, a few other things have been crossed off;
It’s a list of ideas for new planes that are often requested and Wizards is aware of. They include, among others:
Egyptian World (Amonkhet)
Fairy Tale World
High fantasy/”Camelot” World
Indian World (Kaladesh?)
Meso-American World (Ixalan)
Murder Mystery/Noir World
Pirate World (Ixalan)
Prehistoric World
Prison World
Roman World
Sky World
Steampunk World (Kaladesh)
Underground World
Viking/Norse World
Water World
Wild West-Inspired World
So the next few worlds might also include;
Fairy Tale World (I want this so bad), High fantasy/”Camelot” World, Murder Mystery/Noir World, Prehistoric World, Prison World, Roman World,Sky World, Underground World and/or Water World.
Licia, sanguine tribune is clearly from the roman world meaning probably some development in that direction has been done, so I wouldn't be surprised if we get that pretty soon.
I guess Ixaln crosses out prehistoric too.
Fairytale world puzzles me, 'cos i was under the impression that that's Lorwyn (which I LOVE and hope we go back to, as I want more kithkins)
Personally I'd be very excited about Vikings/Norse mythology
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Nope someone, I believe Maro, said Ixalan plays into "Lost world" not "prehistoric world". That would have stuff like cavemen, sabertooth tigers, mammoths ect.
Fairytale world puzzles me, 'cos i was under the impression that that's Lorwyn (which I LOVE and hope we go back to, as I want more kithkins)
Its fairy tale as in Lorwyn is meant to feel like a story book and plays into Celtic mythology. What I want (and expect) is magics take on disney type fairy tales mixed with "original" Grimm type fairy tales.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I kinda like the idea, but please, no more native walkers.
That's racist. /s
Why wouldn't a PW native to the plane be involved in a story on that plane? For that matter, why can't the native PW start out a legendary creature, like say a desperado who gets chased into a mine, blows up the passage behind them, and almost gets buried, only to spark and walk to a new world? As for the GU rain dancing Naga, they could be from another world, especially since the rattlesnake-based Naga of Western World would more likely be BG, making the rain dancer a bit of an outsider. Likewise a Centaur or Minotaur PW could easily be from Theros, Ravnica, or any other worlds where their races are known to exist.
Because most of the native PWs since Origins have been fairly terrible. Arlin, Hualti, Saheeli were all wastes of character space, the only one that was worth anything plot wise was Dovin.
I kinda like the idea, but please, no more native walkers.
That's racist. /s
Why wouldn't a PW native to the plane be involved in a story on that plane? For that matter, why can't the native PW start out a legendary creature, like say a desperado who gets chased into a mine, blows up the passage behind them, and almost gets buried, only to spark and walk to a new world? As for the GU rain dancing Naga, they could be from another world, especially since the rattlesnake-based Naga of Western World would more likely be BG, making the rain dancer a bit of an outsider. Likewise a Centaur or Minotaur PW could easily be from Theros, Ravnica, or any other worlds where their races are known to exist.
Because most of the native PWs since Origins have been fairly terrible. Arlin, Hualti, Saheeli were all wastes of character space, the only one that was worth anything plot wise was Dovin.
You also had Sorin and Chandra, native walkers on those planes who most of the story was focused on.
They will always have a native walker on each plane (new character or returning), they done this since Alara;
Alara- Ajani, Tezzeret
Zendiakr- Nissa
Mirrodin 2- Koth
Innistrad- Sorin, Tibalt
Ravnica 2- Ral, Vraska, Domri
Theros- Xenagos
Tarkir- Sarkhan, Ugin, Narset
Zendiakr 2- Nissa, Kiora
Innistrad 2- Sorin, Arlinn
Kaladesh- Chandra, Saheeli, Dovin
Amonkhet- Samut
Ixlana- Huatli
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I kinda like the idea, but please, no more native walkers.
That's racist. /s
Why wouldn't a PW native to the plane be involved in a story on that plane? For that matter, why can't the native PW start out a legendary creature, like say a desperado who gets chased into a mine, blows up the passage behind them, and almost gets buried, only to spark and walk to a new world? As for the GU rain dancing Naga, they could be from another world, especially since the rattlesnake-based Naga of Western World would more likely be BG, making the rain dancer a bit of an outsider. Likewise a Centaur or Minotaur PW could easily be from Theros, Ravnica, or any other worlds where their races are known to exist.
Because most of the native PWs since Origins have been fairly terrible. Arlin, Hualti, Saheeli were all wastes of character space, the only one that was worth anything plot wise was Dovin.
You also had Sorin and Chandra, native walkers on those planes who most of the story was focused on.
They will always have a native walker on each plane (new character or returning), they done this since Alara;
Alara- Ajani, Tezzeret
Zendiakr- Nissa
Mirrodin 2- Koth
Innistrad- Sorin, Tibalt
Ravnica 2- Ral, Vraska, Domri
Theros- Xenagos
Tarkir- Sarkhan, Ugin, Narset
Zendiakr 2- Nissa, Kiora
Innistrad 2- Sorin, Arlinn
Kaladesh- Chandra, Saheeli, Dovin
Amonkhet- Samut
Ixlana- Huatli
I tend to find walkers more intriguing if they're introduced in a different world than their own, because they stand out as a walker ought to.
That, to me, also makes it a bit more interesting when they end up back where they came from. Of course, that's only part of the story, as the walker him/her/itself has to have interesting traits independent of their location.
A western set is actually rather easy.
Set the scene as if an apocalypse happened of a massive disease created by Bolas to kill off older adults. Just everyone under 35 is alive. No one knows how to run industry or schools.kind of like a hybrid Enders and good cowboys just struggling to eat and live.
Goblins are trying to rebuild but are held back by fairies for some reason. Faeries are on bolas side.
Humans are just raising some animal for beef. Beasts.
Guns are introduced. Range or sharpshooter. Tap this creature, it deals one damage to target player or plainswalker.
Mutants- creature type, exposure to something is causing living things to morph into insane beings that deal damage at random. Think reavers from firefly.
Lastly, there is a no go area for everyone as the zombies and mutants seem to get along but are congregating this wired area. Think dead space artifacts causing the outbreak. Bolas spell or artifact failed creating this error.
This set brings in Gideon to square off against Liliana. Plus Gideon could pull off a good cowboy.
One group on this plain is not friendly to anything and had their own continent until volcanic shifts caused by the “event” to be shoved together with everyone else. Centaurs!
Goblin and faeries are untouched by mutations and no one knows why.
Just my idea.
I tend to find walkers more intriguing if they're introduced in a different world than their own, because they stand out as a walker ought to.
That, to me, also makes it a bit more interesting when they end up back where they came from. Of course, that's only part of the story, as the walker him/her/itself has to have interesting traits independent of their location.
How about the PW just has interesting traits, which will allow him or her to stand out regardless of plane nativity? Having a PW from the plane appear in the set proper can serve multiple purposes: Introduce a PW themed after something relevant to that plane, provide a character with a plot-relevant tie to the plane in question, and in the event the Gatewatch can ever actually get off the ground and stabilize, clientele looking for help dealing with other PWs.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I tend to find walkers more intriguing if they're introduced in a different world than their own, because they stand out as a walker ought to.
That, to me, also makes it a bit more interesting when they end up back where they came from. Of course, that's only part of the story, as the walker him/her/itself has to have interesting traits independent of their location.
How about the PW just has interesting traits, which will allow him or her to stand out regardless of plane nativity? Having a PW from the plane appear in the set proper can serve multiple purposes: Introduce a PW themed after something relevant to that plane, provide a character with a plot-relevant tie to the plane in question, and in the event the Gatewatch can ever actually get off the ground and stabilize, clientele looking for help dealing with other PWs.
I'm not sure why you're arguing against my post. I find them more intriguing that way. I didn't say anyone else had to.
A year ago, I would have thought this was a terrible idea, but Pirate/Dino world sounded terrible and WOTC pulled it off. Kaladesh also demonstrated that some technology can be incorporated without losing the fantasy feeling. Basically, with WOTC's art and world-building, they can pull off a lot.
It's sort of inevitable, I guess. They're going to be constantly pushed into new realms in order to keep producing fresh content and can't afford to leave many stones unturned. With their "resonant" blocks being such big hits (Innistrad), I think they feel emboldened to keep exploring. Plus with the new block structure, they're going to need new places to visit more often.
That said, they'd probably want to give it some space from Amonkhet, since both would have a primarily "desert" setting.
Also, Ixalan's use of cannons is getting close to guns, since it's basically the same technology, only bigger.
That said, I'd prefer no revolvers. It's got to still feel magical. But at this point, I trust their judgment.
Viking plane:
Sounds great, and I'd love to see it. In my mind, some of the Ice Age stuff felt Viking-influenced, like Balduvian Barbarians and Kjeldoran Knight, but (A) that was a long time ago, and (B) early sets like Ice Age were all over the place in terms of influences.
Other planes:
Some of these other planes sound great as well. I'd love to see a true high-fantasy, fairy tale plane; the closest we've gotten flavorwise has been Bant. I see this as distinct from Lorwyn, which was more of a folklore setting than if we got the type of world that could contain Sleeping Beauty, Rapunzel, Jack and Beanstalk, etc.
Underground World also sounds great--Blackreach plus Moria. Maybe the same as Prison/Dungeon world. Also, Sky World sounds awesome: A civilization set in the clouds high above a dangerous or toxic globe beneath or something.
"Native" planeswalkers
I like them, though I agree that they've felt like sort of throwaway characters lately. There's been a recurring motif from the last few blocks where the planeswalkers are the Gatecrash + one female native planeswalker who has little to no relevance to the story (Arlinn Kord, Saheeli Rai, Samut, the Tested, now Huatli, Warrior Poet). They could work on having these characters be more central to the plot, but it's hard with the Gatewatch being the plot. I'd still rather see new, irrelevant characters than the 10th iteration of a Gatewatch character.
That said, they'd probably want to give it some space from Amonkhet, since both would have a primarily "desert" setting.
While a "dust and cactus" desert would obviously be a major biome for a Western setting, they can use other environments as well. For example, "Deep south bayou" swamps, or Midwestern Farmland. Not to mention woodland mountains and coastal beaches.
I'm not sure why you're arguing against my post. I find them more intriguing that way. I didn't say anyone else had to.
I dunno man, Manite seems to have adopted a "taking on all comers" attitude about this thread. For a while there, he was responding to every new post.
COME AT ME BRO
I guess I just saw an underlying flaw in the idea that a PW has to be an outsider to be interesting, when it should be the PW's own character that makes them interesting. Yes, they do need to appear outside their world (and it can be fun seeing planar locals react to cat people and ladies with snake hair when such are unheard of in their world) but I think that underlies the greater priority.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Some of these other planes sound great as well. I'd love to see a true high-fantasy, fairy tale plane; the closest we've gotten flavorwise has been Bant. I see this as distinct from Lorwyn, which was more of a folklore setting than if we got the type of world that could contain Sleeping Beauty, Rapunzel, Jack and Beanstalk, etc.
^^^This!
I made a blog post about what i'd want to see for this but to sum up;
-mix of "orignal" grimes bros, etc and disney tropes
-tamiyo
-dwarfs, merfolk, hags, goblins, elves and fairies are the main races (with humans)
-transform used to show a happy ending/positive changes instead of innistrads dark transformations
-cycle of princesses
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
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Oh, but think of the possibilities. Demon and vampire bankers and robber barons, angel lawmen who are ultimately disillusioned by said demons, old burial grounds, Indians having "fasting" cards that hurt you slightly now but help you a lot when you've done it for enough turns...
I can see a card like
Dead Man's Hand 2UB
Enchantment
All players play with their hands revealed.
If a player has two cards with converted mana cost equal to 1 and two cards with converted mana cost equal to 8, that player loses the game.
"You know, if he'd cheated, he probably would've drawn a better hand."
—Zujaja, Sheriff of the Shadowlands
(Now, bonus points if you can figure out where I came up with the name.)
On phasing:
Not because of mechanical considerations, mind you. I can imagine using an inverse-vehicle/pseudo-licid ability for Mounts. I can imagine using tribes of centaurs as native american stand-ins. I can even imagine Wizards bringing back the clash mechanic to represent quick-draw skills on gunslingers.
What I can't imagine is what Western-world would look like. Most Westerns that I am familiar with deal with the personal stories of one or a few individuals (or a small township at most) and the general aesthetic tends toward small communities surrounded by wilderness. Most magic stories, meanwhile, involve sprawling set-pieces and world-shaking problems. While it might work, you'd have to bend over backwards for a western feel to carry over...
...For example, a world that is largely devastated by generic evil force (magic corruption/demons/zombies/etc.) with all of human civilization contained within a network of tiny communities protected by magical barriers (like Amonkhet's Hekma). The only creatures to travel between these communities (to communicate, exchange supplies, etc) are the mounted and well-armed gunslingers of the plane. A single posse of bandits (all of the evil legends required by the set) have been subverted by an evil force from another plane (such as Bolas or a representative who is exchanging advanced firearms for loyal service) to claim an artifact protected by centaurs (who are also at war with the gunslingers) that will either grant control over the generic evil force or destroy the final human settlements.
I understand where you are coming from but I think in general wizards has just kept that the status quo. I understand that the game is about conflict, but that doesn't always equal a gigantic war or the world exploding. In Aether Revolt I found the battle between Lilianna and Tezzeret more interesting than the whole revolution. I think it would actually be pretty nice for them to create a set of characters who were dealing with a villainous gang and have the rest of the set be about placing us in the world. The last four blocks have ended with a gigantic earth-shattering battle and for me it would be nice for them to scale back and forth more which I think is going to happen with Ixalan.
It seems pretty easy to get the core themes into magic, also. Gideon is working as local law enforcement in a sparsely populated rural region where multiple cultures mix. Some evil planeswalker rides through town and kills a couple of folks, off to... I don't know, steal magic cows or something. Gideon and company chase the evil walker(s). Three quarters of the plot is then grunting or dramatic drone-shots of people riding a horse through the country.
I like the prospect of BR Coyotefolk as Goblin stand-ins, given how Coyotes in the past have been associated with slapstick comedy often involving explosions, falling, and being flattened. GW Centaurs and RW Minotaurs fit given their horse and bull motifs, BG Rattlesnake Naga would be unique, and Aven can occur in both WU Eagle and UB Vulture styles, the Eagles being proud sky warriors and law enforcers, the Vultures cunning opportunists, and where they overlap in blue they can be couriers.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I kinda like the idea, but please, no more native walkers.
...Back then, I made an idea of Wild West inspired Stavado world for Collaborative-Create-a-Booster forum game and it turned out pretty well. It was adventure world such as Ixalan or pre-Eldrazi Zendikar - just more character-centric rather than plot/politics-centric. For me, it would be totally fine to see a block mostly about legendary creatures rather than planeswalkers cause I kinda tired of them in every set ("you need to be a planeswalker to take place in the story" paradigm really sucks, man - we ended up to have a tons of native walkers who don't planeswalk which kinda ruins the entire idea of being a planeswalker... Oh wait, it didn't end yet.) And yes, it was a gold-themed set, such as Ixalan again. Gold is a main resource of Wild West so of course a plot could be about rivalry between gold diggers (civilization) and wild tribes who want to protect the nature. Seems fine if you ask me.
That's racist. /s
Why wouldn't a PW native to the plane be involved in a story on that plane? For that matter, why can't the native PW start out a legendary creature, like say a desperado who gets chased into a mine, blows up the passage behind them, and almost gets buried, only to spark and walk to a new world? As for the GU rain dancing Naga, they could be from another world, especially since the rattlesnake-based Naga of Western World would more likely be BG, making the rain dancer a bit of an outsider. Likewise a Centaur or Minotaur PW could easily be from Theros, Ravnica, or any other worlds where their races are known to exist.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Aces and 8s
So the next few worlds might also include;
Fairy Tale World (I want this so bad), High fantasy/”Camelot” World, Murder Mystery/Noir World, Prehistoric World, Prison World, Roman World,Sky World, Underground World and/or Water World.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Wild West could make a nod to Eternal card game. That setting has minotaurs, dinosaurs, monks, and stuff with gunslingers and Wild West feel. Nagas, elves, orcs, liches, or whatever in the Wild West can be done. It's not like we have to take those settings seriously.
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Licia, sanguine tribune is clearly from the roman world meaning probably some development in that direction has been done, so I wouldn't be surprised if we get that pretty soon.
I guess Ixaln crosses out prehistoric too.
Fairytale world puzzles me, 'cos i was under the impression that that's Lorwyn (which I LOVE and hope we go back to, as I want more kithkins)
Personally I'd be very excited about Vikings/Norse mythology
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Nope someone, I believe Maro, said Ixalan plays into "Lost world" not "prehistoric world". That would have stuff like cavemen, sabertooth tigers, mammoths ect.
Its fairy tale as in Lorwyn is meant to feel like a story book and plays into Celtic mythology. What I want (and expect) is magics take on disney type fairy tales mixed with "original" Grimm type fairy tales.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Because most of the native PWs since Origins have been fairly terrible. Arlin, Hualti, Saheeli were all wastes of character space, the only one that was worth anything plot wise was Dovin.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
You also had Sorin and Chandra, native walkers on those planes who most of the story was focused on.
They will always have a native walker on each plane (new character or returning), they done this since Alara;
Alara- Ajani, Tezzeret
Zendiakr- Nissa
Mirrodin 2- Koth
Innistrad- Sorin, Tibalt
Ravnica 2- Ral, Vraska, Domri
Theros- Xenagos
Tarkir- Sarkhan, Ugin, Narset
Zendiakr 2- Nissa, Kiora
Innistrad 2- Sorin, Arlinn
Kaladesh- Chandra, Saheeli, Dovin
Amonkhet- Samut
Ixlana- Huatli
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Chandra and Sorin weren't new.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
That, to me, also makes it a bit more interesting when they end up back where they came from. Of course, that's only part of the story, as the walker him/her/itself has to have interesting traits independent of their location.
Set the scene as if an apocalypse happened of a massive disease created by Bolas to kill off older adults. Just everyone under 35 is alive. No one knows how to run industry or schools.kind of like a hybrid Enders and good cowboys just struggling to eat and live.
Goblins are trying to rebuild but are held back by fairies for some reason. Faeries are on bolas side.
Humans are just raising some animal for beef. Beasts.
Guns are introduced. Range or sharpshooter. Tap this creature, it deals one damage to target player or plainswalker.
Mutants- creature type, exposure to something is causing living things to morph into insane beings that deal damage at random. Think reavers from firefly.
Lastly, there is a no go area for everyone as the zombies and mutants seem to get along but are congregating this wired area. Think dead space artifacts causing the outbreak. Bolas spell or artifact failed creating this error.
This set brings in Gideon to square off against Liliana. Plus Gideon could pull off a good cowboy.
One group on this plain is not friendly to anything and had their own continent until volcanic shifts caused by the “event” to be shoved together with everyone else. Centaurs!
Goblin and faeries are untouched by mutations and no one knows why.
Just my idea.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
How about the PW just has interesting traits, which will allow him or her to stand out regardless of plane nativity? Having a PW from the plane appear in the set proper can serve multiple purposes: Introduce a PW themed after something relevant to that plane, provide a character with a plot-relevant tie to the plane in question, and in the event the Gatewatch can ever actually get off the ground and stabilize, clientele looking for help dealing with other PWs.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I'm not sure why you're arguing against my post. I find them more intriguing that way. I didn't say anyone else had to.
A year ago, I would have thought this was a terrible idea, but Pirate/Dino world sounded terrible and WOTC pulled it off. Kaladesh also demonstrated that some technology can be incorporated without losing the fantasy feeling. Basically, with WOTC's art and world-building, they can pull off a lot.
It's sort of inevitable, I guess. They're going to be constantly pushed into new realms in order to keep producing fresh content and can't afford to leave many stones unturned. With their "resonant" blocks being such big hits (Innistrad), I think they feel emboldened to keep exploring. Plus with the new block structure, they're going to need new places to visit more often.
That said, they'd probably want to give it some space from Amonkhet, since both would have a primarily "desert" setting.
Firearms have appeared in Magic before, but not in a main product: Alaborn Cavalier, Alaborn Musketeer, Alaborn Zealot, Trokin High Guard.
Also, Ixalan's use of cannons is getting close to guns, since it's basically the same technology, only bigger.
That said, I'd prefer no revolvers. It's got to still feel magical. But at this point, I trust their judgment.
Viking plane:
Sounds great, and I'd love to see it. In my mind, some of the Ice Age stuff felt Viking-influenced, like Balduvian Barbarians and Kjeldoran Knight, but (A) that was a long time ago, and (B) early sets like Ice Age were all over the place in terms of influences.
Other planes:
Some of these other planes sound great as well. I'd love to see a true high-fantasy, fairy tale plane; the closest we've gotten flavorwise has been Bant. I see this as distinct from Lorwyn, which was more of a folklore setting than if we got the type of world that could contain Sleeping Beauty, Rapunzel, Jack and Beanstalk, etc.
Underground World also sounds great--Blackreach plus Moria. Maybe the same as Prison/Dungeon world. Also, Sky World sounds awesome: A civilization set in the clouds high above a dangerous or toxic globe beneath or something.
"Native" planeswalkers
I like them, though I agree that they've felt like sort of throwaway characters lately. There's been a recurring motif from the last few blocks where the planeswalkers are the Gatecrash + one female native planeswalker who has little to no relevance to the story (Arlinn Kord, Saheeli Rai, Samut, the Tested, now Huatli, Warrior Poet). They could work on having these characters be more central to the plot, but it's hard with the Gatewatch being the plot. I'd still rather see new, irrelevant characters than the 10th iteration of a Gatewatch character.
I dunno man, Manite seems to have adopted a "taking on all comers" attitude about this thread. For a while there, he was responding to every new post.
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
While a "dust and cactus" desert would obviously be a major biome for a Western setting, they can use other environments as well. For example, "Deep south bayou" swamps, or Midwestern Farmland. Not to mention woodland mountains and coastal beaches.
COME AT ME BRO
I guess I just saw an underlying flaw in the idea that a PW has to be an outsider to be interesting, when it should be the PW's own character that makes them interesting. Yes, they do need to appear outside their world (and it can be fun seeing planar locals react to cat people and ladies with snake hair when such are unheard of in their world) but I think that underlies the greater priority.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
^^^This!
I made a blog post about what i'd want to see for this but to sum up;
-mix of "orignal" grimes bros, etc and disney tropes
-tamiyo
-dwarfs, merfolk, hags, goblins, elves and fairies are the main races (with humans)
-transform used to show a happy ending/positive changes instead of innistrads dark transformations
-cycle of princesses
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"