I like the idea of vraska in this set. She is an old foil to jace and she fits the Innistrad theme. Plus I want her, Tibalt and Ashiok to join Ob Nixilis as a anti-gatewatch legion of doom type team.
Five Walkers RW - Nahiri, Bloodforger. Makes vampire tokens, taps creatures so they can't block, and produces a lifelinking double strike equipment. U - Jace, Secret Seeker. Look at opponents' hands and topdeck, lets you loot, and tutors for a noncreature spell. B - Liliana, the Necromancer. Creates zombies, drains creatures and gains life, and reanimates target creature or planeswalker. BG - Vraska, the Vengeful Shadow. Exiles cards in graveyards to gain you life, destroys permanents, and grants your creatures deathtouch and hexproof. R - Tibalt, Saint of Mayhem. Loots, deals damage to a random creature or opponent, and sacrifices all other permanents you control, then puts that many Devil tokens onto the battlefield.
I have the feeling that two months from now you'll get bragging rights.
The only change I'd make is on Tibalt being BR. Other than that they all seem reasonable guesses.
Actually, I think they'll have a Tamiyo, maybe a multi-color Tamiyo, who would probably bump out Vraska. But they need a green walker, and I think a blue-green Tamiyo, so soon after blue-green Kiora, is unlikely.
On Curses, I'm not sure they're too likely to return. Also, only a couple of Curses were Common, IIRC, and we've seen, what, two packs? Hard to see what's out there in a near-300-card set.
Man, I hope they bring some back. They are very flavorful. I agree it'll require a bit of squeezing. Two sets instead of three probably means even moreso, unfortunately.
Quote from scottjhebert » »
BTW, I hope Aberrant Researcher, Daring Sleuth, and others have a common 'transform' theme dominated by 'going insane'. I.e., discarding cards (Madness)..
This would be...ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC. Oh, the flavor. Seriously, I'm gonna pass out over here. I hope you are right!!!!
Downdala: I was only meaning that the transformation condition would be 'when you discard a card' or something similar. Not 'when you trigger Madness'. I was pointing out that discarding cards has, traditionally, been associated with lunacy and, well, Madness.
Mandelbrot: Last Innistrad had an entire Equipment subtheme (with Humans), so there is precedence for Equipment showing up in SOI. Also, most Lovecraftian games (Elder Sign, Arkham Horror, and the like) place an emphasis on 'what you have to work with'; IOW, Equipment.
I'm hoping that the Clue artifacts show a future Artifact theme (Kaladesh or Vryn?). Something else to recall is that the Equipment cards in OGW will be available in Standard until next Spring, so if the Fall block is Kaladesh, they'll still be useful.
Mandelbrot: Well, asking whether or not a subtheme will exist vs. 'will it show up in Constructed' are two very different things, would you not agree? Particularly since you referenced Weapons Trainer in your post and I don't see how that's Constructed Playable even with efficient equipment.
Obviously at this point it's just speculation but with the addition of the colorless casting cost they may have decided to introduce powerful artifacts which require colorless mana (in order to make them more difficult to cast) immediately.
This is highly doubtful. Colorless costs are something specific to Eldrazi, not something they'll use anywhere near consistently.
Is it possible for SOI to have an artifact/equipment subtheme? The reasoning is that in Oath we have Stone Haven Outfitter and even Weapons Trainerbut there aren't any powerful equipments in standard right now, so there was already speculation that we will may see some constructed playable equipment in a future set. Innistrad block wasn't known for its artifacts so I didn't expect return to have good artifacts either. But two cards suggest otherwise. Expose Evil introduces the investigate keyword which puts an artifact into play which might have some significance (perhaps some card or mechanic cares about the number of colorless permanents or artifacts you control -obviously not affinity-). The other card is Explosive Apparatus. The flavor text of this card suggests technology powered by souls, "soulpunk" if you will. So maybe we will have more such artifacts or even equipment. What do you think?
Name and number crunch does show that there are going to be at least 28 artifacts and lands. I doubt over 12 of these are lands, so there is room for a lot of artifacts.
That said, I am part of a minority that would rather have Scarecrow tribal than an equipment theme.
Weapons Trainer could be constructed playabe in the right deck, but the main card is Stone Haven Outfitter which seems to be built for constructed given the right support. My initial reaction was that there may be some powerful equipment in the block after SOI but given the spoiled cards I mentioned it's probable they will print constructed playable equipment in Innistrad and probably other artifacts as well. Obviously at this point it's just speculation but with the addition of the colorless casting cost they may have decided to introduce powerful artifacts which require colorless mana (in order to make them more difficult to cast) immediately.
The equipment support in OGW could just be sleepers for the Fall set rather than for SoI.
Indeed, an artifact-heavy set is the best environment in which to focus on Equipment as a theme. Of course, we might see more Human tribal Equipment in SOI.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
BTW, I hope Aberrant Researcher, Daring Sleuth, and others have a common 'transform' theme dominated by 'going insane'. I.e., discarding cards (Madness)..
This would be...ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC. Oh, the flavor. Seriously, I'm gonna pass out over here. I hope you are right!!!!
The flavor is great though it is not that simple mechanically: you can't have these cards basically have both madness and transform this seems unlikely and would be bad.
So basically you need a "when you cast a spell with madness" trigger, and with statements about parasitic mechanics that translates into "when you cast a spell from exile"? That seems weird.
For Madness transform it could be simple like "If you discarded a card this turn, transform card name" and then the opposite for the transform version, creating a Jekyll and Hyde theme. Kinda. Would follow the template that the original Werewolf flip cards left us as well, just subbing spells for discard.
I find it interesting that there is a glaring hole in the Green PW department. Nahiri is clearly WR in this incarnation (apart from the Vengefulness and the Equipment angle, she's a Lithomancer... and historically earth and stone have been Red hallmarks). Tibalt also seems 'out there', and likely RB. Jace is Blue. Not suggesting that we need a Green PW in SOI, but trying to figure out who it would be. Garruk is the 'obvious' choice. That might make Eldritch Moon a Liliana/Garruk issue, though.
I guess it's possible that Nissa, as another Gatewatch member, shows up in Eldritch Moon, but I'm kinda 'Nissa'd out' right now.
I feel that the GW slot is held by Ajani. I know he was mono-white last we saw him, but that's because it was a core set; he was GW in Journey Into Nyx, and I don't think anything has happened to him story-wise to push out the green. I would put down money that the next time we see Ajani (which probably won't be until Return to Theros) he will be GW. Maybe full Naya (RGW), but that probably won't happen unless/until he shows up on a block with some sort of shard support.
I doubt any other Gatewatchers will show up in SOI block. My prediction is that at the end of OGW's story, Ugin is going to send each of the four off to different planes on separate missions, with Jace's being to track down Sorin. Subsequent blocks will likely be checking in on where the other 3 go, hopefully leading to some new planes.
BTW, I hope Aberrant Researcher, Daring Sleuth, and others have a common 'transform' theme dominated by 'going insane'. I.e., discarding cards (Madness)..
This would be...ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC. Oh, the flavor. Seriously, I'm gonna pass out over here. I hope you are right!!!!
The flavor is great though it is not that simple mechanically: you can't have these cards basically have both madness and transform this seems unlikely and would be bad.
So basically you need a "when you cast a spell with madness" trigger, and with statements about parasitic mechanics that translates into "when you cast a spell from exile"? That seems weird.
For Madness transform it could be simple like "If you discarded a card this turn, transform card name" and then the opposite for the transform version, creating a Jekyll and Hyde theme. Kinda. Would follow the template that the original Werewolf flip cards left us as well, just subbing spells for discard.
Recovering from madness seems unlikely, given horror tropes. Plus, Discarding cards is relatively hard compared to casting two spells per turn, so an "off" switch would make them much worse gameplay-wise. Personally, I think a "When condition is met, you may discard a card. If you do, transform ~" is more likely.
I feel that the GW slot is held by Ajani. I know he was mono-white last we saw him, but that's because it was a core set; he was GW in Journey Into Nyx, and I don't think anything has happened to him story-wise to push out the green. I would put down money that the next time we see Ajani (which probably won't be until Return to Theros) he will be GW. Maybe full Naya (RGW), but that probably won't happen unless/until he shows up on a block with some sort of shard support.
Given how likely an Egyptian world would have catfolk, I could see Ajani showing up in a block set there easily. Perhaps he's seeking some means by which to bring Elspeth back from the Underworld? A reincarnation ritual?
As for the investigator cycle's transform condition, perhaps Delirium is the key to their transformation?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Given how likely an Egyptian world would have catfolk, I could see Ajani showing up in a block set there easily. Perhaps he's seeking some means by which to bring Elspeth back from the Underworld? A reincarnation ritual?
If/when we went to Egyptian World, I would much rather see Ainoks that look like jackals than Catfolk. They're not mutually exclusive, but I feel like if they did a block with prominent Cat and Dog races... well, I know you know. :-p Besides, I feel that Ajani's motivation right now isn't to bring Elspeth back, but rather to destroy the gods by taking away their devotion and power. So I don't foresee him leaving for awhile.
On a more thread-relevant topic: I saw this pointed out on another thread, but I wanted to remark here that we have yet to see anything indicating if this is a +1/+1 counter block, or a -1/-1 counter block. Original Innistrad used +1/+1 counters, but we haven't seen -1/-1 counters since Scars block 5 years ago. I know that -1/-1 counters have less design space, but with the smaller blocks, I'm hoping to see them happen more often.
Downdala: Perhaps, but there's nothing about the subtype 'Clue' that gives the sac ability. About the only reason to do that would be if cards care about Clues dying.
Of course, if there are new Spellbombs, they're almost certainly the Cryptoliths.
If/when we went to Egyptian World, I would much rather see Ainoks that look like jackals than Catfolk. They're not mutually exclusive, but I feel like if they did a block with prominent Cat and Dog races... well, I know you know. :-p Besides, I feel that Ajani's motivation right now isn't to bring Elspeth back, but rather to destroy the gods by taking away their devotion and power. So I don't foresee him leaving for awhile.
Bastet is one of the most popular Egyptian deities along with Anubis and Horus, and cats were highly respected animals among Egyptians. There's no way Catfolk would be left out of an Egyptian world. Catfolk and Jackalfolk can easily coexist; just put the Jackalfolk in RW or WB and let the Catfolk have GW.
And just because Ajani is focusing on vengance against Theros' Gods now doesn't mean a plot development down the line won't bring him to Egypt World, though I fully expect to see Ajani carry out his vengeance on Heliod in particular by convincing the mortals of Theros, particularly humans and leonin, that Elspeth is destined to rise from the underworld as a god and strike Heliod down for good. Perhaps he journeys to Egypt World in search of a talisman that will allow him to enter Theros' underworld without forsaking his own life in order to contact Elspeth? Or perhaps he journeys there after successfully bringing Elspeth back to undertake a new quest?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I think they balance the colors of planeswalkers usually though we haven't had a block with more than 2 of the same color planeswalker that I can remember unless you count bolas from alara block, though memory isn't amazing so I could be wrong.
There was three black planeswalkers in the original Innistrad block. Lily, Sorin, and Garruk.
I think they balance the colors of planeswalkers usually though we haven't had a block with more than 2 of the same color planeswalker that I can remember unless you count bolas from alara block, though memory isn't amazing so I could be wrong.
There was three black planeswalkers in the original Innistrad block. Lily, Sorin, and Garruk.
But the black garruk only cast for green.
But his color identity was green *and* black.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I consider Garruk Relentless to be 1/4 black, as it only applies to his flip side. Rather interesting design, that, as they basically had to go full BG overlap for Garruk, the Veil-Cursed's abilities.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I doubt Sorin is weaker than Avacyn though - he's an incredibly ancient vampire to begin with, so he's easily one of the stronger planeswalkers, and walkers are still significantly above normal mages.
Of course, odds are Avacyn knows full well her own origin. I think some of the oldest of the vampires know as well, since Sorin is known to them as a traitor (I doubt the specifics are told to anyone though). It's just a very well-kept secret that the great symbol of hope for humans was actually created as more of a sheepdog.
An Avacyn Fallen card would be kind of interesting from a story perspective (if she didn't know her origin, and Nahiri told her in a way to break her... well...). Of course, Avacyn having a spark would be kind of cool - losing Elspeth means we don't have the tormented hero running about in white so much. And there's certainly precedent for artificial beings having a spark.
Maybe Garruk will be cured of his curse while simultaneously becoming a Werewolf and losing his planeswalker's spark. Then we can have an RG Werewolf commander!
I consider Garruk Relentless to be 1/4 black, as it only applies to his flip side. Rather interesting design, that, as they basically had to go full BG overlap for Garruk, the Veil-Cursed's abilities.
Yeah. Garruk, the Veil-Cursed is the closest to a hybrid planeswalker design we have gotten so far. And I am quite happy with it so far.
I actually am looking forward to Wizards going all-in on giving us the doubly pleasing return of a DFC planeswalker in addition to the inevitable Werewolf legendary creature (which may or may not be a DFC).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
I have the feeling that two months from now you'll get bragging rights.
The only change I'd make is on Tibalt being BR. Other than that they all seem reasonable guesses.
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
Man, I hope they bring some back. They are very flavorful. I agree it'll require a bit of squeezing. Two sets instead of three probably means even moreso, unfortunately.
This would be...ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC. Oh, the flavor. Seriously, I'm gonna pass out over here. I hope you are right!!!!
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
Mandelbrot: Last Innistrad had an entire Equipment subtheme (with Humans), so there is precedence for Equipment showing up in SOI. Also, most Lovecraftian games (Elder Sign, Arkham Horror, and the like) place an emphasis on 'what you have to work with'; IOW, Equipment.
I'm hoping that the Clue artifacts show a future Artifact theme (Kaladesh or Vryn?). Something else to recall is that the Equipment cards in OGW will be available in Standard until next Spring, so if the Fall block is Kaladesh, they'll still be useful.
Name and number crunch does show that there are going to be at least 28 artifacts and lands. I doubt over 12 of these are lands, so there is room for a lot of artifacts.
That said, I am part of a minority that would rather have Scarecrow tribal than an equipment theme.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
For Madness transform it could be simple like "If you discarded a card this turn, transform card name" and then the opposite for the transform version, creating a Jekyll and Hyde theme. Kinda. Would follow the template that the original Werewolf flip cards left us as well, just subbing spells for discard.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
I feel that the GW slot is held by Ajani. I know he was mono-white last we saw him, but that's because it was a core set; he was GW in Journey Into Nyx, and I don't think anything has happened to him story-wise to push out the green. I would put down money that the next time we see Ajani (which probably won't be until Return to Theros) he will be GW. Maybe full Naya (RGW), but that probably won't happen unless/until he shows up on a block with some sort of shard support.
I doubt any other Gatewatchers will show up in SOI block. My prediction is that at the end of OGW's story, Ugin is going to send each of the four off to different planes on separate missions, with Jace's being to track down Sorin. Subsequent blocks will likely be checking in on where the other 3 go, hopefully leading to some new planes.
Recovering from madness seems unlikely, given horror tropes. Plus, Discarding cards is relatively hard compared to casting two spells per turn, so an "off" switch would make them much worse gameplay-wise. Personally, I think a "When condition is met, you may discard a card. If you do, transform ~" is more likely.
Given how likely an Egyptian world would have catfolk, I could see Ajani showing up in a block set there easily. Perhaps he's seeking some means by which to bring Elspeth back from the Underworld? A reincarnation ritual?
As for the investigator cycle's transform condition, perhaps Delirium is the key to their transformation?
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
If/when we went to Egyptian World, I would much rather see Ainoks that look like jackals than Catfolk. They're not mutually exclusive, but I feel like if they did a block with prominent Cat and Dog races... well, I know you know. :-p Besides, I feel that Ajani's motivation right now isn't to bring Elspeth back, but rather to destroy the gods by taking away their devotion and power. So I don't foresee him leaving for awhile.
On a more thread-relevant topic: I saw this pointed out on another thread, but I wanted to remark here that we have yet to see anything indicating if this is a +1/+1 counter block, or a -1/-1 counter block. Original Innistrad used +1/+1 counters, but we haven't seen -1/-1 counters since Scars block 5 years ago. I know that -1/-1 counters have less design space, but with the smaller blocks, I'm hoping to see them happen more often.
Of course, if there are new Spellbombs, they're almost certainly the Cryptoliths.
Bastet is one of the most popular Egyptian deities along with Anubis and Horus, and cats were highly respected animals among Egyptians. There's no way Catfolk would be left out of an Egyptian world. Catfolk and Jackalfolk can easily coexist; just put the Jackalfolk in RW or WB and let the Catfolk have GW.
And just because Ajani is focusing on vengance against Theros' Gods now doesn't mean a plot development down the line won't bring him to Egypt World, though I fully expect to see Ajani carry out his vengeance on Heliod in particular by convincing the mortals of Theros, particularly humans and leonin, that Elspeth is destined to rise from the underworld as a god and strike Heliod down for good. Perhaps he journeys to Egypt World in search of a talisman that will allow him to enter Theros' underworld without forsaking his own life in order to contact Elspeth? Or perhaps he journeys there after successfully bringing Elspeth back to undertake a new quest?
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
But the black garruk only cast for green.
But his color identity was green *and* black.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Of course, odds are Avacyn knows full well her own origin. I think some of the oldest of the vampires know as well, since Sorin is known to them as a traitor (I doubt the specifics are told to anyone though). It's just a very well-kept secret that the great symbol of hope for humans was actually created as more of a sheepdog.
An Avacyn Fallen card would be kind of interesting from a story perspective (if she didn't know her origin, and Nahiri told her in a way to break her... well...). Of course, Avacyn having a spark would be kind of cool - losing Elspeth means we don't have the tormented hero running about in white so much. And there's certainly precedent for artificial beings having a spark.
Yeah. Garruk, the Veil-Cursed is the closest to a hybrid planeswalker design we have gotten so far. And I am quite happy with it so far.
I actually am looking forward to Wizards going all-in on giving us the doubly pleasing return of a DFC planeswalker in addition to the inevitable Werewolf legendary creature (which may or may not be a DFC).
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO