I'd love them to move the CORE set to being once every 2 years again, increase the reprints within it a little, and then in the alternating years always have a Modern Masters set with a full print run.
What about the stores who are trying to make money off the game? The stores who run the tournaments. Should we say screw them too? Should we tank the value of their cards so they can't stay open to provide the opportunity to play? If cards are worth $1, how do they make money?
How many people are willing to pay $30 for a sideboard card in Modern, or $800 worth of fetchlands for a deck, versus how much more people would pay $6.99 for a Modern Masters booster knowing what is in this set?
Where did you pay 6.99 for your Modern Masters boosters!?
For a short while, you can find them at big box stores. $6.99 is the MSRP. Unfortunately, due to the limited print run, it's hard to find any now unless you're going online.
You found them at big box stores!? Where do you guys live to have had luck like this!?
I wasn't aware MM was at Big Box Stores anywhere. It certainly wasn't within 250 miles of me.
Still, good for you.
I'm someone who recently (January) decided to finally get into Modern, because it actually looks really fun and could be a very fun PTQ season. Now, thanks to being an avid commander player and a somewhat competitive legacy one, I had quite a lot of the staples (including playsets of fetchs, thank the lord). Even trying to pick up 4th copies of cards here and there has become incredibly frustrating. $60 Cryptic Commands? $30 Chord of Callings? Really?
And if it annoys me, I can't even imagine what it does to people who actually need to acquire entire playsets, instead of just picking up final copies. I wouldn't blame them for just giving up. Or, dear god, people who need fetchs or Goyfs.
Reprinting Modern Masters 1, as appealing as it sounds, would actually be BAD for modern. It would, like the first time around, convince a new batch of players to try to get into modern. While the increased demand would very likely not exceed the increased card supply, it would negate a some of it. Likely most or even all of it in the case of certain mythic rares that one needs a playset of. Best case, Goyf drops back to $150... which really doesn't do much to improve accessibility at all.
Sure, stuff like Cryptic would crash back to $20 or so... but that increased demand I mentioned earler? Even if it's a LOT smaller then I expect (and then it was the first time around), it would still be something. And a large number of cards people are complaining about aren't in MM1... and they would thus increase in price even more... Which would almost certainly utterly negate any increase in format accessibility. (And very likely make it the problem worse.)
What they need to do is print MM2 far sooner they are going to... but their terrible "year+ in advance" development cycle prevents them from reacting to problems in any reasonable time frame.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks: Standard - Rally, Modern - Kikichord, Legacy - Elves
Commmander - Eight-and-a-Half Tails; Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker; Prime Speaker Zegana; Alesha, Who Smiles at Death; Daxos the Returned; Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest; Patron of the Moonfolk; Animar, Soul of Elements
"Terrible year+ in advance development cycle?" How is it terrible. I'm fact, how is it anything but necessary? Just flooding the market with cards doesn't actually do anything if the product itself is terrible. One reason MM was so popular was because of how amazing it was to draft. They can't print awesome sets like that if they dont have the time to test them.
MM was awesome to draft. Which was great... for magic online players, and the small percentage of people who had stores that allowed them to do so at a remotely reasonable price.
I doubt even 10% of the MM product was used for limited. It would have sold out even it was the worst limited format in the history of the game.
Finally, the problem isn't developing sets that far in advance... that's a good thing. The problem is that in the current cycle, they're finalizing sets over a year in advance... and that is simply a very bad idea now that modern is a thing. Eternal formats you're going to massively support and want to keep growing, like modern, need more reaction time then such a cycle gives them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks: Standard - Rally, Modern - Kikichord, Legacy - Elves
Commmander - Eight-and-a-Half Tails; Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker; Prime Speaker Zegana; Alesha, Who Smiles at Death; Daxos the Returned; Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest; Patron of the Moonfolk; Animar, Soul of Elements
What about the stores who are trying to make money off the game? The stores who run the tournaments. Should we say screw them too? Should we tank the value of their cards so they can't stay open to provide the opportunity to play? If cards are worth $1, how do they make money?
How many people are willing to pay $30 for a sideboard card in Modern, or $800 worth of fetchlands for a deck, versus how much more people would pay $6.99 for a Modern Masters booster knowing what is in this set?
Where did you pay 6.99 for your Modern Masters boosters!?
For a short while, you can find them at big box stores. $6.99 is the MSRP. Unfortunately, due to the limited print run, it's hard to find any now unless you're going online.
You found them at big box stores!? Where do you guys live to have had luck like this!?
Southeastern US. I remembered seeing some at Target. Unfortunately, I was not playing Magic at the time, so I did not get any.
Southeastern US. I remembered seeing some at Target. Unfortunately, I was not playing Magic at the time, so I did not get any.
I believe you are heavily mistaken. Modern Masters was available only to hobby stores, and was not distributed to big box stores at all(Such as Target, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, etc). Wizards was quite explicit about the distribution for the set, and that it would be distributed only to hobby stores.
That said, my LGS was selling their first shipment at MSRP for a while. So it certainly wasn't impossible to find it for MSRP, but there is no "proper" way that a Big Box store could have received Modern Masters at all.
That said, my LGS was selling their first shipment at MSRP for a while. So it certainly wasn't impossible to find it for MSRP, but there is no "proper" way that a Big Box store could have received Modern Masters at all.
Well depends what you'd call MSRP. In my country they were at least prized around 200$ IIRC when released. Atm they can be found in LGSs for 350-430$. That said we also have higher taxes on goods than the US but it ain't enough and I refuse to believe the transport-expense is enough to cover the rest.
That said, my LGS was selling their first shipment at MSRP for a while. So it certainly wasn't impossible to find it for MSRP, but there is no "proper" way that a Big Box store could have received Modern Masters at all.
Well depends what you'd call MSRP. In my country they were at least prized around 200$ IIRC when released. Atm they can be found in LGSs for 350-430$. That said we also have higher taxes on goods than the US but it ain't enough and I refuse to believe the transport-expense is enough to cover the rest.
$169 plus tax for a box. Unfortunately I had just moved for a job to another state, and my *new* LGS was charging $220 or so(Which isn't horrible, but was dissapointing) for a box on release. I kept in touch with a few people and they said that the MM prices at my old one didn't rise for about a month or so. They were very nice towards players, and didn't gouge a bit. I assume they eventually leveled their prices with that of other stores, but that's fine. They gave players a chance to buy MM at the intended price early on when they got the boxes from distributors at wholesale. Only after their overhead goes up do they level the prices, which is perfectly reasonable.
It *really* depended on where you went to, but it could be found. As for the Eurozone(I'm assuming you are in Europe), I know nothing about it.
Imagine if they print another run of 100 boxes -- and then... THE PRICES for ALL CARDS DROP to 0.1$ and all the speculators all over the world stop buying from drafters and the game collapses!
Phew. Crisis averted.
They should definitely wait a few more years, because 100$ is a reasonable price for individual copies of mass-printable cardboard playing cards, after all.
People aren't idiots for not being able to afford their hobby, people are idiots if they think MM was anything but a huge success. It did exactly what it was designed to do. It drastically lowered the barrier for entry into the format while also selling a lot of product. There were outliers, but that's all they were, outliers. Only Bob, Goyf, and Vial didn't see a drop in price, and every other non-mythic dropped over 30%. Most rares dropped over 50%.
I'm sorry this product didn't do what you wanted (make Modern affordable for you), but anyone who thinks the product failed or didn't do exactly what was intended is an idiot.
Cryptic Command is now back to normal, for the Modern Masters variant. The original is at +40%.
Which actual maindeckable cards have maintained a lowered price?
I ask because I could not find any cards played in Modern THAT NEEDED LOWERED PRICES, that has lowered prices today.
Progenitus dropped, I guess, but I've never seen it played in modern.
People aren't idiots for not being able to afford their hobby, people are idiots if they think MM was anything but a huge success. It did exactly what it was designed to do. It drastically lowered the barrier for entry into the format while also selling a lot of product. There were outliers, but that's all they were, outliers. Only Bob, Goyf, and Vial didn't see a drop in price, and every other non-mythic dropped over 30%. Most rares dropped over 50%.
I'm sorry this product didn't do what you wanted (make Modern affordable for you), but anyone who thinks the product failed or didn't do exactly what was intended is an idiot.
Cryptic Command is now back to normal, for the Modern Masters variant. The original is at +40%.
Which actual maindeckable cards have maintained a lowered price?
I ask because I could not find any cards played in Modern THAT NEEDED LOWERED PRICES, that has lowered prices today.
Progenitus dropped, I guess, but I've never seen it played in modern.
Again, irrelevant. The prices all dropped significantly for about half a year (other than 'goyf, Bob, Vial). MM did it's job. It caused lowered prices and increased supply.
Also, a list of cards that see Modern play and are significantly lower now than pre-MM:
Kataki
Life from the Loam
Kitchen Finks
Manamorphose
And I'm sure I'm missing a ton of other uncommons and commons.
Do you believe that Pod, as a modern deck, has a lowered price because of Modern Masters?
How much did Modern Masters lower the price of a deck that was 600$ before Modern Masters -- like, for instance, Pod -- the home of Kitchen Finks, three months after release?
Oh.
That's right.
The deck became more expensive because of Modern Masters, due to the spike in landbase prices.
MM was basically a bait and switch.
Lowered prices for some uncommons, higher prices for all other cards in Modern.
Life from the Loam's landbase increased by 56$ in 3 months, which made it's price decrease absolutely meaningless, and kind of ironic.
...
Besides... "The starved market emptied the stores for Modern Masters within weeks, and they're SCREAMING for more! It was a massive success. Better not print any more for a couple of years."
Only Wizards...
You are looking at correlations, not accusations. It is a fact that MM caused significantly lower prices for a number of months. There is no arguing that point. It is a fact that many cards (mainly commons and ncommons) have kept their lower prices. These are facts.
Has Modern, as a whole, gone up since MM? Yes, obviously. But that is irrelevant to the question of this thread, should the specific set of MM be reprinted. As was pointed out earlier in this thread there are only about 5-8 cards total from the set that are even arguably at an unreasonable price. What is the ppint of tanking the value of all the other cards just to hit those few when you can just reprint those 5-8 in some other product.
That's a long list of good cards that speaks much to the success of Modern Masters.
However, it's definitely worth noting that the cards that most needed to be on this list aren't.
They definitely don't need to reprint MM wholesale, but MM2 needs a lot of cards from MM1,
as well as a larger print run (or putting the still-inflated cards in products like Modern Event Decks).
Cryptic Command is now back to normal, for the Modern Masters variant. The original is at +40%.
Good!
The original *should* be worth more- that's kinda how CCG's are supposed to work.
If reprinted Scalding Tarns are worth anywhere near my Zendikar ones,
I'll be incredibly annoyed.
There should be a reward for recognizing valuable cards early,
but there should also be sufficient reprints to keep Modern affordable.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Nicol Bolas, a balance of Vorthos and PowerUBR
Nath of the Gilt LeafBG
Others
Squee, Goblin of AwesomenessR
Nekusar, the Mindblazer!UBR
Vela the NightcladUB
I used to be a world champion, but then I took a wolf to the knee. And three Galvanic Blasts to the face.
Concerning when returning to Kamigawa would be acceptable
You found them at big box stores!? Where do you guys live to have had luck like this!?
Still, good for you.
I'm someone who recently (January) decided to finally get into Modern, because it actually looks really fun and could be a very fun PTQ season. Now, thanks to being an avid commander player and a somewhat competitive legacy one, I had quite a lot of the staples (including playsets of fetchs, thank the lord). Even trying to pick up 4th copies of cards here and there has become incredibly frustrating. $60 Cryptic Commands? $30 Chord of Callings? Really?
And if it annoys me, I can't even imagine what it does to people who actually need to acquire entire playsets, instead of just picking up final copies. I wouldn't blame them for just giving up. Or, dear god, people who need fetchs or Goyfs.
Reprinting Modern Masters 1, as appealing as it sounds, would actually be BAD for modern. It would, like the first time around, convince a new batch of players to try to get into modern. While the increased demand would very likely not exceed the increased card supply, it would negate a some of it. Likely most or even all of it in the case of certain mythic rares that one needs a playset of. Best case, Goyf drops back to $150... which really doesn't do much to improve accessibility at all.
Sure, stuff like Cryptic would crash back to $20 or so... but that increased demand I mentioned earler? Even if it's a LOT smaller then I expect (and then it was the first time around), it would still be something. And a large number of cards people are complaining about aren't in MM1... and they would thus increase in price even more... Which would almost certainly utterly negate any increase in format accessibility. (And very likely make it the problem worse.)
What they need to do is print MM2 far sooner they are going to... but their terrible "year+ in advance" development cycle prevents them from reacting to problems in any reasonable time frame.
Commmander - Eight-and-a-Half Tails; Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker; Prime Speaker Zegana; Alesha, Who Smiles at Death; Daxos the Returned; Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest; Patron of the Moonfolk; Animar, Soul of Elements
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
I doubt even 10% of the MM product was used for limited. It would have sold out even it was the worst limited format in the history of the game.
Finally, the problem isn't developing sets that far in advance... that's a good thing. The problem is that in the current cycle, they're finalizing sets over a year in advance... and that is simply a very bad idea now that modern is a thing. Eternal formats you're going to massively support and want to keep growing, like modern, need more reaction time then such a cycle gives them.
Commmander - Eight-and-a-Half Tails; Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker; Prime Speaker Zegana; Alesha, Who Smiles at Death; Daxos the Returned; Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest; Patron of the Moonfolk; Animar, Soul of Elements
Southeastern US. I remembered seeing some at Target. Unfortunately, I was not playing Magic at the time, so I did not get any.
I believe you are heavily mistaken. Modern Masters was available only to hobby stores, and was not distributed to big box stores at all(Such as Target, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, etc). Wizards was quite explicit about the distribution for the set, and that it would be distributed only to hobby stores.
That said, my LGS was selling their first shipment at MSRP for a while. So it certainly wasn't impossible to find it for MSRP, but there is no "proper" way that a Big Box store could have received Modern Masters at all.
$169 plus tax for a box. Unfortunately I had just moved for a job to another state, and my *new* LGS was charging $220 or so(Which isn't horrible, but was dissapointing) for a box on release. I kept in touch with a few people and they said that the MM prices at my old one didn't rise for about a month or so. They were very nice towards players, and didn't gouge a bit. I assume they eventually leveled their prices with that of other stores, but that's fine. They gave players a chance to buy MM at the intended price early on when they got the boxes from distributors at wholesale. Only after their overhead goes up do they level the prices, which is perfectly reasonable.
It *really* depended on where you went to, but it could be found. As for the Eurozone(I'm assuming you are in Europe), I know nothing about it.
But...
Imagine if they print another run of 100 boxes -- and then... THE PRICES for ALL CARDS DROP to 0.1$ and all the speculators all over the world stop buying from drafters and the game collapses!
Phew. Crisis averted.
They should definitely wait a few more years, because 100$ is a reasonable price for individual copies of mass-printable cardboard playing cards, after all.
Cryptic Command is now back to normal, for the Modern Masters variant. The original is at +40%.
Which actual maindeckable cards have maintained a lowered price?
I ask because I could not find any cards played in Modern THAT NEEDED LOWERED PRICES, that has lowered prices today.
Progenitus dropped, I guess, but I've never seen it played in modern.
Again, irrelevant. The prices all dropped significantly for about half a year (other than 'goyf, Bob, Vial). MM did it's job. It caused lowered prices and increased supply.
Also, a list of cards that see Modern play and are significantly lower now than pre-MM:
Kataki
Life from the Loam
Kitchen Finks
Manamorphose
And I'm sure I'm missing a ton of other uncommons and commons.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
How much did Modern Masters lower the price of a deck that was 600$ before Modern Masters -- like, for instance, Pod -- the home of Kitchen Finks, three months after release?
Oh.
That's right.
The deck became more expensive because of Modern Masters, due to the spike in landbase prices.
MM was basically a bait and switch.
Lowered prices for some uncommons, higher prices for all other cards in Modern.
Life from the Loam's landbase increased by 56$ in 3 months, which made it's price decrease absolutely meaningless, and kind of ironic.
...
Besides...
"The starved market emptied the stores for Modern Masters within weeks, and they're SCREAMING for more! It was a massive success. Better not print any more for a couple of years."
Only Wizards...
Has Modern, as a whole, gone up since MM? Yes, obviously. But that is irrelevant to the question of this thread, should the specific set of MM be reprinted. As was pointed out earlier in this thread there are only about 5-8 cards total from the set that are even arguably at an unreasonable price. What is the ppint of tanking the value of all the other cards just to hit those few when you can just reprint those 5-8 in some other product.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
That's a long list of good cards that speaks much to the success of Modern Masters.
However, it's definitely worth noting that the cards that most needed to be on this list aren't.
They definitely don't need to reprint MM wholesale, but MM2 needs a lot of cards from MM1,
as well as a larger print run (or putting the still-inflated cards in products like Modern Event Decks).
Good!
The original *should* be worth more- that's kinda how CCG's are supposed to work.
If reprinted Scalding Tarns are worth anywhere near my Zendikar ones,
I'll be incredibly annoyed.
There should be a reward for recognizing valuable cards early,
but there should also be sufficient reprints to keep Modern affordable.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW