You realize that there is no such thing as R1 and R2 anymore right? They haven't had different levels of rarity within a single rarity since like Alliances.
Shards of Alara onwards has had every set with R1s (mythics) and R2s (rares). They are printed on sheets of 80/121 (depending on set size) where every mythic appears once, and every rare twice (and in the case of Innistrad/DKA double-faced cards, commons and uncommons also appeared many more times on the sheet). Exactly analagous to the Alliances system of (IIRC) 46 R1s and 3 R3s.
Essentially the key here is that in Ravnica the shocklands were the rarest cards and now they have been reprinted at a rarity downgrade (twice as common as the rarest cards in a new set). If they'll do it with Hallowed Fountain and Steam Vents (two of the four highest priced cards in their entire block pre-R2R), why would they hesistate to similarly down-shift Thoughtseize's rarity?
I would like to see Merchant Scroll reprinted in this.. I dont think it seems any Modern play, but its a $22 foil.
Has been played in old extended at least so should be a reprint candidate but at uncommon not common most likely (so there's not a silly amount of shuffling effects at common - this is a lesson WOTC learned from the mess of Mercadian drafting)
Shards of Alara onwards has had every set with R1s (mythics) and R2s (rares). They are printed on sheets of 80/121 (depending on set size) where every mythic appears once, and every rare twice (and in the case of Innistrad/DKA double-faced cards, commons and uncommons also appeared many more times on the sheet). Exactly analagous to the Alliances system of (IIRC) 46 R1s and 3 R3s.
Essentially the key here is that in Ravnica the shocklands were the rarest cards and now they have been reprinted at a rarity downgrade (twice as common as the rarest cards in a new set). If they'll do it with Hallowed Fountain and Steam Vents (two of the four highest priced cards in their entire block pre-R2R), why would they hesistate to similarly down-shift Thoughtseize's rarity?
Has been played in old extended at least so should be a reprint candidate but at uncommon not common most likely (so there's not a silly amount of shuffling effects at common - this is a lesson WOTC learned from the mess of Mercadian drafting)
Even if you consider Mythics a different form of a rare, that doesn't change the fact that during the original Ravnica, Shocks were the same rarity as Three Dreams and Dark Confidant. They were not the rarest cards, they were as rare as every other rare. Levels within the same rarity disappeared, I believe, after Alliances, although it may have been after Weatherlite.
Even if you consider Mythics a different form of a rare, that doesn't change the fact that during the original Ravnica, Shocks were the same rarity as Three Dreams and Dark Confidant. They were not the rarest cards, they were as rare as every other rare. Levels within the same rarity disappeared, I believe, after Alliances, although it may have been after Weatherlite.
And yet the shocklands were reprinted in a set where they weren't the equal rarest cards. There's exactly two Overgrown Tombs of the RTR printing for every Angel of Serenity because the former is an R2 and the latter an R1 (and this is true despite Wizards giving R1s the name 'Mythics' and R2s the name 'Rares').
So Wizards have no issue downgrading high dollar value R1s to lower rarities.
Anyways this is getting off topic, Thoughtseize is obviously never going to be a common and cards that have been printed above uncommon are seldom printed even at uncommon later (only ones that come to mind are Dancing Scimitar and Serra Angel although I'm sure there's others).
That numbers' actually rather easy to get to yourself.
If Im not mistaken the rare to mythic ratio in packs is 1 to 8.
Compare that ratio the the ratio of mythics to rares (15/53) = ~ 1 to 3.5
In this case, there's 8/3.5 = 2.28 overgrown tomb for every Angel of Serenity.
However, the mythic to rare ratio here is based on aggregation from box openings. If you're right about those sheets, then we should see more mythic rares in boxes than we see now. Either that, or some other product receives a higher mythic rare to rare ratio than boosterboxes do.
The ratio of Rares to Mythics is exactly 2 to 1. The actual ratio of Rares to Mythics in packs is 106:15 in large sets and 7:1 in small sets (which is 1/8 packs having a Mythic, and 7/8 having a Rare).
You made two errors in your calculations, first using an estimate, 1/8 instead of the 15/121 for large sets, and then constructing the ratio of Mythic Rares : (Mythic Rares + Rares) instead of the ratio Mythic Rares : Rares.
Sirgog's description of Rares as R2 and Mythic Rares as R1 is 100% correct.
The reason it won't be downgraded is the same reason Tarmogoyf was upgraded. This set has nothing to do with printing cards at normal rarities based on power level, complexity, or coolness factor. It is about increasing the supply in the market without flooding the market with highly sought, and expensive, cards. Thoughtseize is a highly sought, and expensive, card. It will be a rare at a minimum if it is reprinted, and just like 'goyf got bumped up, it is easily possible Thoughtseize will be bumped up as well.
The reason it won't be downgraded is the same reason Tarmogoyf was upgraded. This set has nothing to do with printing cards at normal rarities based on power level, complexity, or coolness factor. It is about increasing the supply in the market without flooding the market with highly sought, and expensive, cards. Thoughtseize is a highly sought, and expensive, card. It will be a rare at a minimum if it is reprinted, and just like 'goyf got bumped up, it is easily possible Thoughtseize will be bumped up as well.
And the only reason it's expensive and highly-sought is because they screwed it up the first time around by needlessly making it a rare, like Mutavault. Neither card needed to be a rare, great job WotC...always caring about the $$$ only.... -_-
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And the only reason it's expensive and highly-sought is because they screwed it up the first time around by needlessly making it a rare, like Mutavault. Neither card needed to be a rare, great job WotC...always caring about the $$$ only.... -_-
The ratio of Rares to Mythics is exactly 2 to 1. The actual ratio of Rares to Mythics in packs is 106:15 in large sets and 7:1 in small sets (which is 1/8 packs having a Mythic, and 7/8 having a Rare).
You made two errors in your calculations, first using an estimate, 1/8 instead of the 15/121 for large sets, and then constructing the ratio of Mythic Rares : (Mythic Rares + Rares) instead of the ratio Mythic Rares : Rares.
Sirgog's description of Rares as R2 and Mythic Rares as R1 is 100% correct.
I disagree with the r1 and r2s but the original ravnica had 5 shock lands and 88 rares so 5/88 RTR has 5 shock lands and 53 rares excluding mythics. This all assumes that each rare is equally likely.
RTR 7/8(rare to mythic ratio)*5/53= 8.25%
Rav 5/88= 5.68%
looking at the ratio 8.25/5.68= 1.45 so there are 45% more shocklands per case then the original rav.
pyro314
Neither card needed to be a rare, great job WotC...always caring about the $$$ only.... -_-
Same on Wizards for only letting you have the chance to get it for 3-4$ a booster. Lets totaly not blame other players and game stores for selling it at around 30$. Im sure if you had some you'd just give it away for free cause its not really all that powerful right? Right?
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The reason they gave why Thoughtseize was printed at rare when it was first revealed was due to the dealing damage to yourself factor. Casual players still seem to hate any spell that hurts them in the process and thus why it was bumped from Uncommon to Rare. They probably felt this was a mistake as the card jumped up to a ridiculous price, but at the time that is what made them make thoughtseize a rare.
It also has the distinction of being the only one mana discard spell printed that can cause an opponent to discard anything no questions asked which is somewhat rare.
It also has the distinction of being the only one mana discard spell printed that can cause an opponent to discard anything no questions asked which is somewhat rare.
It can't hit lands like some discard can, but it's definitely damned powerful.
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Melek, Izzet Paragon
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It can't hit lands like some discard can, but it's definitely damned powerful.
Right I forgot that it does not hit one of the card types in magic. I assume this was to prevent it from being a 1 mana vindicate the hand effect. If it could hit land you could easily hurt a mana-screwed opponent with a turn 1 thoughtseize.
So, I really want to talk about the common slots of Modern Masters like this thread says, not argue about Thoughtsieze.
So, these are some of the commons from before Zendikar being used in many Modern decks:
Breaking news.
There will be no Tibalt, Tamiyo, Tezzeret, Garruk, Chandra, Liliana, mini-Jace, big-Jace, Garruk again, or Sarkhan in Theros either.
There will also be no Black Lotus.
To refute any of these as unlikely, or to add other good possibilities to this list just let me know.
Each of the cards I left are unlikely as they have been printed after Alara Reborn. Some we know are not in (Bojuka Bog, Mutagenic Growth) because their first printing was after ARB, some are likely not in because they were reprinted after ARB (Harrow, Incinerate).
Each of the cards I left are unlikely as they have been printed after Alara Reborn. Some we know are not in (Bojuka Bog, Mutagenic Growth) because their first printing was after ARB, some are likely not in because they were reprinted after ARB (Harrow, Incinerate).
Edited. Really leaves black pretty weak. Who has some suggestions for black?
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I actually expect that thoughtseize won't be in here. Why? It's too essentially black and it's probably standard fair. Given that context, I think they'll save it for an eventual standard-legal set.
I feel like they will focus on things that won't fly in standard for various reasons--complexity, power, and flavor being the most obvious. I am hoping that, given the context of this set, the commons and uncommons fly directly in the face of the "new world order."
I'm hoping Thoughtseize shows up in GTC in Dimir. Makes sense flavor wise.
They said Fairies was draftable. Spellstutter Sprite at common would be a huge boon were that the case. She was a common last printing, so that hopefully helps but I could see her being more of an uncommon because of her odd ability and the dependence on tribal.
She's actually solid on her own in limited. She's a flier with force spike stapled on when she's alone.
Hey, here's a legit question.
How would rarity changes in this apply to the Pauper, Peasant, and Bling formats? They've got official rule sets on MTGO these days.
Shards of Alara onwards has had every set with R1s (mythics) and R2s (rares). They are printed on sheets of 80/121 (depending on set size) where every mythic appears once, and every rare twice (and in the case of Innistrad/DKA double-faced cards, commons and uncommons also appeared many more times on the sheet). Exactly analagous to the Alliances system of (IIRC) 46 R1s and 3 R3s.
Essentially the key here is that in Ravnica the shocklands were the rarest cards and now they have been reprinted at a rarity downgrade (twice as common as the rarest cards in a new set). If they'll do it with Hallowed Fountain and Steam Vents (two of the four highest priced cards in their entire block pre-R2R), why would they hesistate to similarly down-shift Thoughtseize's rarity?
Has been played in old extended at least so should be a reprint candidate but at uncommon not common most likely (so there's not a silly amount of shuffling effects at common - this is a lesson WOTC learned from the mess of Mercadian drafting)
Even if you consider Mythics a different form of a rare, that doesn't change the fact that during the original Ravnica, Shocks were the same rarity as Three Dreams and Dark Confidant. They were not the rarest cards, they were as rare as every other rare. Levels within the same rarity disappeared, I believe, after Alliances, although it may have been after Weatherlite.
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And yet the shocklands were reprinted in a set where they weren't the equal rarest cards. There's exactly two Overgrown Tombs of the RTR printing for every Angel of Serenity because the former is an R2 and the latter an R1 (and this is true despite Wizards giving R1s the name 'Mythics' and R2s the name 'Rares').
So Wizards have no issue downgrading high dollar value R1s to lower rarities.
Anyways this is getting off topic, Thoughtseize is obviously never going to be a common and cards that have been printed above uncommon are seldom printed even at uncommon later (only ones that come to mind are Dancing Scimitar and Serra Angel although I'm sure there's others).
The ratio of Rares to Mythics is exactly 2 to 1. The actual ratio of Rares to Mythics in packs is 106:15 in large sets and 7:1 in small sets (which is 1/8 packs having a Mythic, and 7/8 having a Rare).
You made two errors in your calculations, first using an estimate, 1/8 instead of the 15/121 for large sets, and then constructing the ratio of Mythic Rares : (Mythic Rares + Rares) instead of the ratio Mythic Rares : Rares.
Sirgog's description of Rares as R2 and Mythic Rares as R1 is 100% correct.
Desperate Ritual
Grapeshot
Empty the Warrens
Lava Spike
Rift Bolt
Shard Volley
Lightning Bolt
Serum Visions
Sleight of Hand
Chromatic Star
Chromatic Sphere
Terminate
Oust
Might of Old Krosa
Cranial Plating
Welding Jar
Ornithopter
Frogmite
Relic of Progenitus
Springleaf Drums
Darksteel Citadel
Wall of Roots
Search for Tomorrow
Repeal
Mana Leak
Coiling Oracle
Beacon Aparition
Raise the Alarm
Elsewhere Flask
Conjurer's Bubble
Several Cycling Creatures
Keldon Marauders
Smash to Smithereens
Mystical Teachings
I need to think more.
Boring...
Modern
WGBJunk:Feel the Rhinos WGB
RWUAmerican Taxes RWU
EDH
XKarn and the Living StaxX RETIRED
GWURoon of The Hidden RealmGWU
To this guy and all the other posters claiming that Thoughtseize will be mythic, or that it just can't be downgraded to uncommon based on its effect:
DISTRESS
seriously, wake up....
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Quotes:
The reason it won't be downgraded is the same reason Tarmogoyf was upgraded. This set has nothing to do with printing cards at normal rarities based on power level, complexity, or coolness factor. It is about increasing the supply in the market without flooding the market with highly sought, and expensive, cards. Thoughtseize is a highly sought, and expensive, card. It will be a rare at a minimum if it is reprinted, and just like 'goyf got bumped up, it is easily possible Thoughtseize will be bumped up as well.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
And the only reason it's expensive and highly-sought is because they screwed it up the first time around by needlessly making it a rare, like Mutavault. Neither card needed to be a rare, great job WotC...always caring about the $$$ only.... -_-
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
How dare a corporation only care about money.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
I disagree with the r1 and r2s but the original ravnica had 5 shock lands and 88 rares so 5/88 RTR has 5 shock lands and 53 rares excluding mythics. This all assumes that each rare is equally likely.
RTR 7/8(rare to mythic ratio)*5/53= 8.25%
Rav 5/88= 5.68%
looking at the ratio 8.25/5.68= 1.45 so there are 45% more shocklands per case then the original rav.
As for commons. Qasali pridemage, blightning, rift bolt instead of lavaspike or Lbolt, Manamorphose, and possibly rip-clan crasher.
Same on Wizards for only letting you have the chance to get it for 3-4$ a booster. Lets totaly not blame other players and game stores for selling it at around 30$. Im sure if you had some you'd just give it away for free cause its not really all that powerful right? Right?
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
What a great formula for short-term gain and long-term bankruptcy!
Customer satisfaction plays a significant role.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Not all cards are getting new art.
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ah, i wasn't sure since i didn't remember what they said in the announcement clearly.
It also has the distinction of being the only one mana discard spell printed that can cause an opponent to discard anything no questions asked which is somewhat rare.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
It can't hit lands like some discard can, but it's definitely damned powerful.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Right I forgot that it does not hit one of the card types in magic. I assume this was to prevent it from being a 1 mana vindicate the hand effect. If it could hit land you could easily hurt a mana-screwed opponent with a turn 1 thoughtseize.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
So, these are some of the commons from before Zendikar being used in many Modern decks:
and this doesn't include cards from Death and Taxes, Zoo, Second Sunrise, Delver
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
(W/B) Teysa, Orzhov Scion (W/B)
G Devoted G
(U/R) Scramblefun (U/R)
(W/U) Heh, Birbs (W/U)
(Not speculating on uncommons being dropped to common, all cards here are already printed at common.)
White
Blue
Black
Red
Green
Artifact
Land
Multicolor
To refute any of these as unlikely, or to add other good possibilities to this list just let me know.
PM me about signature artwork or any other artwork.
Each of the cards I left are unlikely as they have been printed after Alara Reborn. Some we know are not in (Bojuka Bog, Mutagenic Growth) because their first printing was after ARB, some are likely not in because they were reprinted after ARB (Harrow, Incinerate).
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Edited. Really leaves black pretty weak. Who has some suggestions for black?
PM me about signature artwork or any other artwork.
I'm hoping Thoughtseize shows up in GTC in Dimir. Makes sense flavor wise.
She's actually solid on her own in limited. She's a flier with force spike stapled on when she's alone.
Hey, here's a legit question.
How would rarity changes in this apply to the Pauper, Peasant, and Bling formats? They've got official rule sets on MTGO these days.