Make Signets uncommon? Problem solved. We have a cycle of art for Signets and the art for the Izzet and Golgari Signet was actually used on the Signets in the Duel Decks.
Why?
Because:
1, Maro said they wouldnt.
2, Because the insert for "how to play izzet vs Golgari.
The * beside the card represents new art for cards from old sets.
It says; "* New art for this release" It feels like it emphasises that its for THIS release.
I want them to reprint them.
I understand colourless ramp is something they dont want and want to save for green but I think theyre wrong.
Direct ramping can be a green thing sure, indirect or perhaps more fixy, less rampy for other colours.
They will work it out.
I want signets.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Bad products are bad products. Bad products are not "designed" for casuals you meanie.
Make Signets uncommon? Problem solved. We have a cycle of art for Signets and the art for the Izzet and Golgari Signet was actually used on the Signets in the Duel Decks.
I never realized they were Commons originally. The set has 10 additional Uncommons to being with, and the increased rarity seems like it could be reasonable for limited purposes.
Do you guys think that a cycle of 2 mana artifacts with the abilities of the Graven Cairns cycle would fix the problem at all (maybe without the ability to tap for 1)? That way, they would be better for the guilds that they were designed for instead of letting you splash two colors into an off-color deck.
Do you guys think that a cycle of 2 mana artifacts with the abilities of the Graven Cairns cycle would fix the problem at all (maybe without the ability to tap for 1)? That way, they would be better for the guilds that they were designed for instead of letting you splash two colors into an off-color deck.
I agree that these would be better than the original Signets, in flavor and in balance. And they should be uncommon ...
EDIT: If I recall, I actually thought the same thing back in the original Ravnica block days. I wondered why signets could be activated with any color mana; they're artifacts of a specific guild, why don't they activate only with that guild's mana? That's what I mean about your suggestion having better flavor. And in terms of balance, making them activate only with their guild mana also would make them less of an auto-pick in draft; you'd only auto-pick those of your own colors instead of any of them.
Well I'm not sure if this is relative but the prerelease to RtR is using a "guild" assignment for each player participating in the event.
Is there a possibility that drafting might incur some form of guild classifications to offset the signet's effects on the limited environment?
I agree that they should be made as Uncommons to possibly adjust the availability in draft formats.
That being said, if an 8 man draft occurs and I crack a signet at the uncommons level I have a much rarer chance of cracking another one. Now I'm forced to choose either a ramp spell or my rare slot. Decisions, decisions.
But WotC will ultimately decide our fates. Personally, I hope for them. And I do agree they are powerful indeed. I run 3 signets in my EDH deck. Why? Because they are that frickin good.
Every time I cast Sphere of the Suns in standard I've secretly wished it was a signet.
I like the "filter" idea. But I think at some point it mentions in a designers tweet that the "death of guilds", or something to that effect in a cycle of cards, was going to happen. I interpret that into a 5 color deck.
Due to Limited, I think if the signets are reprinted, it will be in "Sinker." That set is going to need color fixing more than RTR or GTC will, given the presence of the Gates and Shocklands in the big sets and the presence of all 10 guilds in the small set.
As an odd aside, with Chromatic Lantern in RTR (for 5-color access), will GTC see something similar to balance its own Limited environment?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
May your games be chaotic and your decks be Rogue.
[QUOTE=Eventide Sojourner;/comments/6194329]Due to Limited, I think if the signets are reprinted, it will be in "Sinker." That set is going to need color fixing more than RTR or GTC will, given the presence of the Gates and Shocklands in the big sets and the presence of all 10 guilds in the small set.[/QUOTE]
I've got to say, I hadn't considered that... and it's a very good possibility.
I think signets are almost guaranteed at this point. WotC has gone back on it's word in the past when it felt it was the right call, and this is probably one of those times. Besides, without bounce lands in tandem with the signets, I don't think they would make such a huge impact (also if they were in sinker.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Due to Limited, I think if the signets are reprinted, it will be in "Sinker." That set is going to need color fixing more than RTR or GTC will, given the presence of the Gates and Shocklands in the big sets and the presence of all 10 guilds in the small set.
As an odd aside, with Chromatic Lantern in RTR (for 5-color access), will GTC see something similar to balance its own Limited environment?
Why would "Sinker" need mana fixing? It wont be drafted by itself so it will have access to mana fixers from both RTR and GTC.
If we get Signets it will be tonight or tomorrow. It would make sense to appear in BDM, Development, or in the Limited Resources podcast. If it's not in any of those tonight, I assume they're not in.
I think signets are almost guaranteed at this point. WotC has gone back on it's word in the past when it felt it was the right call, and this is probably one of those times. Besides, without bounce lands in tandem with the signets, I don't think they would make such a huge impact (also if they were in sinker.)
They've changed their minds about certain things when they felt it was the right call.
However, when they state that printing Signets is not the right call when the sets signets would be in are in design and/or development, the chances of them changing their minds at the last minute (which is what it would require) is pretty damn slim.
No, you're NOT going to see signets in RTR, because the development at the time RTR and others are in development have said the signets are not the right powerlevel for this environment.
They'll have other mana-fixing. They won't have this kind.
As someone who's been playing for far too long and spent far too much money on this game, I will personally be devastated if signets aren't reprinted. For the past two years in standard there have been maybe 2-3 decks which dominate the meta and with which other decks can't compete. I remember playing with the original Ravnica set, first alongside Kamigawa and then alongside time spiral and the thing I remember most about that format is that the top tier decks weren't as defined as they have been since ... well faeries (stupid faeries...I don't believe in faeries, hah one just dropped dead).
Anyway my point is when every deck has access to ramp and colour fixing you manage to create a diversity of ideas that makes for a much more interesting meta. I remember playing Solar Flare and thinking it was the nuts and it was, the only thing is there was also; boros beats, gruul beats, greater gifts, heartbeat, fireshield, owling mine, [magna]'vore, Ghostdad, salty pickles, slithers, mono-black discard, U/W wisdom and many more. The reason I stopped playing standard was I got sick of playing the same game 8 times in a single tournament.
And while we're at it, the same thing has happened in drafts, people pick to an archetype, signets in Ravnica screwed signals and made it so that only someone forcing an archetype would end up with it, at the expense of consistent mana. Sure this will make drafting more complicated for beginners, but it will also make it more fun when the beginner ends up with an OP deck because they drafted interestingly. Overall signets are great, they do great things to the format and quite honestly should be put in every core-set to keep the game diverse and interesting
As someone who's been playing for far too long and spent far too much money on this game, I will personally be devastated if signets aren't reprinted.
They already stated they're not appropriate for today's cardpool. So... prepare for devastation. Maybe if it was a statement they'd said during Zendikar block I might think they'd change their mind... but during Innistrad? That means they said, while putting RTR together, Signets are not appropriate.
They probably want to avoid having 5 common slots taken up by colorless mana ramp for limited.
f there were to be color fixing artifacts for the guild, I'd hazard a guess at:
2
comes into play tapped
T: add A or B to your mana pool
too good? even better than the original signets? at the very least they can't be used the turn they were played
As it stands, the current signets are a bit too strong in a limited environment
This is along the lines of what I was thinking. I think they would be fair, since they can usually turn a land (gates) into artifacts by making it cost 2. I think this would be fine, strong, but fair.
EDH is like French fries: some people like waffle cut, crinkle cut, or plain old straight cut, and while there's slight flavor difference and personal preference, at the end of the day they're still fries.
Seems likely. The fact they showed a cycle of Signet-esque arts, and then used 2 in the Duel Decks, seems like a 95% confirmation, if not 100%.
They were comfortable reprinting the mana Myr in Scars, despite their big impact on Mirrodin Limited; Signets are an equivalent. Don't forget there are 5 guilds instead of 4, so fixing is slightly more needed.
That said, I like how the Signet arts (if that's what they are) are all "in context," such as displayed on a wall or a column. Interesting twist, instead of the more trinket-like original arts.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On MTGO as Protoman.
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
Since there are many artifacts that cost 3 for 1 mana of any color (Darksteel Ingot), and Gilded Lotus costs 5 for 3 mana of any color, I was hoping for a card that's 4 for 2. If uncommon, something along the lines of
Dimir Insignia (or whatever) 4
Artifact T: Add BU to your mana pool.
etc. for the others.
/ Baseless, I know. But would be great for EDH!
// 5 of these in one set plus Chromatic Lantern would probably be too much ramp tho
The problem isn't just one of pure power level, but the wrong kind of fixing. In Ravnica draft it was plausible to splash a Lightning Helix in your GB deck off of two Boros Signets and a Boros Garrison. That's not what R&D's looking for, and whatever new mana artifacts we get will follow the guildgates' example and tap for color A or color B unless they're intended as seeds for Sinker/GTC/RTR draft. Even then, they won't be the signets because both Signets and Karoos were powerful enough to make the above theoretical splash worthwhile a good deal of the time, or at least not at common.
Looks like getting Signets in RTR is off the table. With Pithing Needle revealed and only 1 spot between that and Tablet, there is no space for both Rakdos and Selesnya Signets. So that's a pretty good sign of none in RTR, however Sinker is still a possibility.
Looks like getting Signets in RTR is off the table. With Pithing Needle revealed and only 1 spot between that and Tablet, there is no space for both Rakdos and Selesnya Signets. So that's a pretty good sign of none in RTR, however Sinker is still a possibility.
Dear lord, ten signets in one set would be... "Interesting" for limited. Ugh, so much ramp.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The wedding is over. Now it's time for the honeymoon.
Dear lord, ten signets in one set would be... "Interesting" for limited. Ugh, so much ramp.
Isn't that what it was like in the original Ravnica limited? I never played it so I wouldn't honestly know. But you only get one pack to pull them in, so I don't think it would be that bad.
Isn't that what it was like in the original Ravnica limited? I never played it so I wouldn't honestly know. But you only get one pack to pull them in, so I don't think it would be that bad.
What *is* bad is the fact that this will now live in the Limbo betwixt Fact and Fiction,
fueling pointless arguments for many, many months
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Why?
Because:
1, Maro said they wouldnt.
2, Because the insert for "how to play izzet vs Golgari.
The * beside the card represents new art for cards from old sets.
It says; "* New art for this release" It feels like it emphasises that its for THIS release.
I want them to reprint them.
I understand colourless ramp is something they dont want and want to save for green but I think theyre wrong.
Direct ramping can be a green thing sure, indirect or perhaps more fixy, less rampy for other colours.
They will work it out.
I want signets.
Arts for the other Signets/
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
I never realized they were Commons originally. The set has 10 additional Uncommons to being with, and the increased rarity seems like it could be reasonable for limited purposes.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
I agree that these would be better than the original Signets, in flavor and in balance. And they should be uncommon ...
EDIT: If I recall, I actually thought the same thing back in the original Ravnica block days. I wondered why signets could be activated with any color mana; they're artifacts of a specific guild, why don't they activate only with that guild's mana? That's what I mean about your suggestion having better flavor. And in terms of balance, making them activate only with their guild mana also would make them less of an auto-pick in draft; you'd only auto-pick those of your own colors instead of any of them.
Is there a possibility that drafting might incur some form of guild classifications to offset the signet's effects on the limited environment?
I agree that they should be made as Uncommons to possibly adjust the availability in draft formats.
That being said, if an 8 man draft occurs and I crack a signet at the uncommons level I have a much rarer chance of cracking another one. Now I'm forced to choose either a ramp spell or my rare slot. Decisions, decisions.
But WotC will ultimately decide our fates. Personally, I hope for them. And I do agree they are powerful indeed. I run 3 signets in my EDH deck. Why? Because they are that frickin good.
Every time I cast Sphere of the Suns in standard I've secretly wished it was a signet.
I like the "filter" idea. But I think at some point it mentions in a designers tweet that the "death of guilds", or something to that effect in a cycle of cards, was going to happen. I interpret that into a 5 color deck.
We also have Abrupt Decay, Acidic Slime, Ancient Grudge and Smash for starters. They might even bring back Annul.
As an odd aside, with Chromatic Lantern in RTR (for 5-color access), will GTC see something similar to balance its own Limited environment?
I've got to say, I hadn't considered that... and it's a very good possibility.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Why would "Sinker" need mana fixing? It wont be drafted by itself so it will have access to mana fixers from both RTR and GTC.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
They've changed their minds about certain things when they felt it was the right call.
However, when they state that printing Signets is not the right call when the sets signets would be in are in design and/or development, the chances of them changing their minds at the last minute (which is what it would require) is pretty damn slim.
No, you're NOT going to see signets in RTR, because the development at the time RTR and others are in development have said the signets are not the right powerlevel for this environment.
They'll have other mana-fixing. They won't have this kind.
2
comes into play tapped
T: add A or B to your mana pool
too good? even better than the original signets? at the very least they can't be used the turn they were played
As it stands, the current signets are a bit too strong in a limited environment
Anyway my point is when every deck has access to ramp and colour fixing you manage to create a diversity of ideas that makes for a much more interesting meta. I remember playing Solar Flare and thinking it was the nuts and it was, the only thing is there was also; boros beats, gruul beats, greater gifts, heartbeat, fireshield, owling mine, [magna]'vore, Ghostdad, salty pickles, slithers, mono-black discard, U/W wisdom and many more. The reason I stopped playing standard was I got sick of playing the same game 8 times in a single tournament.
And while we're at it, the same thing has happened in drafts, people pick to an archetype, signets in Ravnica screwed signals and made it so that only someone forcing an archetype would end up with it, at the expense of consistent mana. Sure this will make drafting more complicated for beginners, but it will also make it more fun when the beginner ends up with an OP deck because they drafted interestingly. Overall signets are great, they do great things to the format and quite honestly should be put in every core-set to keep the game diverse and interesting
They already stated they're not appropriate for today's cardpool. So... prepare for devastation. Maybe if it was a statement they'd said during Zendikar block I might think they'd change their mind... but during Innistrad? That means they said, while putting RTR together, Signets are not appropriate.
They probably want to avoid having 5 common slots taken up by colorless mana ramp for limited.
This is along the lines of what I was thinking. I think they would be fair, since they can usually turn a land (gates) into artifacts by making it cost 2. I think this would be fine, strong, but fair.
Feel free to tell me yours!
They were comfortable reprinting the mana Myr in Scars, despite their big impact on Mirrodin Limited; Signets are an equivalent. Don't forget there are 5 guilds instead of 4, so fixing is slightly more needed.
That said, I like how the Signet arts (if that's what they are) are all "in context," such as displayed on a wall or a column. Interesting twist, instead of the more trinket-like original arts.
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
Dimir Insignia (or whatever)
4
Artifact
T: Add BU to your mana pool.
etc. for the others.
/ Baseless, I know. But would be great for EDH!
// 5 of these in one set plus Chromatic Lantern would probably be too much ramp tho
Gathering Magic
Goblin Artisans
Channel Fireball
Daily MTG Making Magic
Daily MTG Latest Developments
MTG Color Pie
Dear lord, ten signets in one set would be... "Interesting" for limited. Ugh, so much ramp.
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!
Isn't that what it was like in the original Ravnica limited? I never played it so I wouldn't honestly know. But you only get one pack to pull them in, so I don't think it would be that bad.
What *is* bad is the fact that this will now live in the Limbo betwixt Fact and Fiction,
fueling pointless arguments for many, many months
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW