Draco, you must not understand something about how Wizards works. No single person has the final say in any matter. It is a group effort, and majority rules. Just because ONE developer said that WHILE M13 was in the works does not mean it would truly affect RTR, since he did not have the final say. Besides, Wizards is a company that wants to make money. RTR is feeding into fandom, and Signets were a big part of Ravnica.
Now then, there is a huge difference between printing and reprinting. Printing means it is a new, never before seen card, like a 3-colored signet. Sure, every two color combinations has a signet already, but they could print new ones with different names. Reprinting is to take something already out there, and put it back out there again. It already exists, and they just put it back out there. Since Signets were a big deal that very few people cried about, they have a great chance to be reprinted, unlike a card like Stoneforge Mystic, which was complained about everywhere.
To keep quoting an article that was written when Avacyn wasn't even out yet is actually quite pointless, since a lot has changed since then. Maybe they felt, after seeing what has changed, that it would be good to put the signets in RTR. I mean, the artwork is there already, which is seen in the Duel Deck on the two signets.
In the end, no one truly knows if they are in there or not, and to make arguments for or against them being there is rather pointless. That being said, I hope they are in RTR, because then RTR will truly start to feel like Ravnica once more. The new cards are great, and they are going all out on the set, but the signets are what truly sets it apart from other sets.
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Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
Pretty sure the rocks where replaced with Gates...
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Pretty sure the rocks where replaced with Gates...
The bouncelands were replaced with Gates, no?
A gold large set like this needs more than one cycle of common fixers:
Ravnica had Signets and bouncelands.
Shards had Obelisks and Panoramas.
Return has Gates and ______________.
Meanwhile, we have a cycle of arts for the Signets.
And it's not just speculation that these arts are going to be used for Signets, not some other mana-fixer; the Izzet and Golgari arts were used on Signets in the Duel Decks already. They're not going to use those arts somewhere else, like all the 1-cc and 3-cc alternatives being discussed in this thread.
I can't even believe there's a vehement debate about this, honestly. Or maybe there isn't, there's just a couple of people denying it to the death.
Besides, they were willing to reprint basic land art just to amp up the nostalgia. You'd have to guess that they'd have to keep at least Signets OR bouncelands for the same reason, just so it still "feels like Ravnica," much like mana Myr were supposed to make Scars feel like Mirrodin.
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On MTGO as Protoman.
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
They are never reprinting signets, remand, force spike, or mana leak given the mentality of R&D during the development of RtR.
You have yet to provide any evidence of this being the case. All you have provided is evidence of one member of R&D stating that they would never print those cards today.
There are several cases of cards being reprinted that are more powerful than they would normally print under current development philosophy. They occasionally like to do this to sell a set to people who either have fond memories of the old card, or who wish to play with especially powerful cards that they would otherwise not get the chance to.
Since the signets have already been printed, the issue of whether or not they will be printed now is not in question. They exist, wether or not WotC would print them now. That means they are fair game for reprinting, though obviously development would have to be very careful with the other cards they print in the same format, like they were when they reprinted lightning bolt and mana leak (the interaction with snapcaster mage was an oversight, which they hoped to fix with the printing of cavern of souls, as the article you referenced points out.)
In conclusion:
We have established that one member of R&D says they wouldn't print new signets now. We have also established that cards are occasionally reprinted despite being more powerful than anything they would currently print, though they are very careful when the do so to avoid potentially abuseable interactions, and to print hate for any that they miss. There also happens to be ten new arts depicting the guild crests, which were previewed as art from return to ravnica block. We have also seen that at least two of those arts are arts for signets.
There are three possible conclusions that can be drawn from this.
1. The development team as a whole decided that standard could handle the reprinting of signets if they were careful about it, and they are being reprinted.
2. The development team as a whole decided that standard could handle two signets, but not all ten, and Izzet signet and Golgari signet are being reprinted. The similar style of the other eight arts depicting the guild crests is a coincidence.
3. The art for ten cards, at least two of which happen to be signets, and the other eight of which bear enough artistic similarity to assume are likely also signets, were for some reason previewed as art for RtR block, even though at least two of them are not actually being printed in RtR block.
In my opinion, the first looks considerably more likely than either of the others, though I will admit that the third is also much more likely than the second.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
We will not know for sure until a card is spoiled that eliminates them numerically or they get spoiled proving their inclusion....however wizards has never previewed art for a completely different product in the previews for the upcoming set...not saying that is confirmation...however the article about cavern of souls is not definitive proof...just the mindset of ONE developer not all.
Ok. Here (again) is the card number for Pithing Needle that I ran through GIMP (Sharpen @ 52, Unsharp Mask @ default, Sharpen @ ~10 I think) to sharpen the numbers. Pretty clearly 231. Soooooo, Signets are not ruled out...YET.
Sorry for all of the posts on this...MTGS needs to fix their thumbnail attachment mechanism.
I'm not sure what the point of this is. You can't use filters to determine what's not in the original image. You could probably come up with a different series of filters to make it look like a 3. Or a 9, for that matter.
The difference between a 1 and a 3 comes down to a small number (perhaps just 1) of pixels in the image. At that level, using filters is likely to make things worse. And the difference (either way) could easily be a JPEG compression artifact.
Bottom line is that we won't know until it's added to the visual spoiler and we can spancount.
There was no point beyond seeing what a cleaned up version of the image would produce. Running sharpening filters on an image is a pretty standard thing to do in order to improve edge visibility.
It's a standard thing to do if the problem is that the image is blurry. That's not the case here. The problem is lack of resolution, not blurriness. Sharpening can't help with that; it can't add pixels which don't exist.
Keyrunes. I think that the thread now has a winner.
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A voice for Timmy.
Commander R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
I guess the signets in sinker does make a lot of sense since it is very difficult to see how they would get a 10 guild set to work without that kind of colour fixing.. although it wont be drafted alone.
Made sure it has a nice presentation and I think the lime adds an extra touch.
Are there any condiments you wish with this?
Griefing isn't fun.
Had no idea people would get so heated about this. Christ.
Regardless, the arts are almost certainly Signets, and surely they wouldn't get new art just to show off. My bet is on Sinker, if Keyrunes do knock Signets out of the race.
While I'm at it (and I don't remember exactly what was said), Maro vaguely hinted at three color cards in Sinker in response to a question on Tumblr. That's what it seemed like to me. That would most certainly be interesting. Maybe a collapse of the guilds and the members start merging with others? That would be neat.
Now then, there is a huge difference between printing and reprinting. Printing means it is a new, never before seen card, like a 3-colored signet. Sure, every two color combinations has a signet already, but they could print new ones with different names. Reprinting is to take something already out there, and put it back out there again. It already exists, and they just put it back out there. Since Signets were a big deal that very few people cried about, they have a great chance to be reprinted, unlike a card like Stoneforge Mystic, which was complained about everywhere.
To keep quoting an article that was written when Avacyn wasn't even out yet is actually quite pointless, since a lot has changed since then. Maybe they felt, after seeing what has changed, that it would be good to put the signets in RTR. I mean, the artwork is there already, which is seen in the Duel Deck on the two signets.
In the end, no one truly knows if they are in there or not, and to make arguments for or against them being there is rather pointless. That being said, I hope they are in RTR, because then RTR will truly start to feel like Ravnica once more. The new cards are great, and they are going all out on the set, but the signets are what truly sets it apart from other sets.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
I don't see it. That seems to be happening a lot on here lately.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
The bouncelands were replaced with Gates, no?
A gold large set like this needs more than one cycle of common fixers:
Ravnica had Signets and bouncelands.
Shards had Obelisks and Panoramas.
Return has Gates and ______________.
Meanwhile, we have a cycle of arts for the Signets.
And it's not just speculation that these arts are going to be used for Signets, not some other mana-fixer; the Izzet and Golgari arts were used on Signets in the Duel Decks already. They're not going to use those arts somewhere else, like all the 1-cc and 3-cc alternatives being discussed in this thread.
I can't even believe there's a vehement debate about this, honestly. Or maybe there isn't, there's just a couple of people denying it to the death.
Besides, they were willing to reprint basic land art just to amp up the nostalgia. You'd have to guess that they'd have to keep at least Signets OR bouncelands for the same reason, just so it still "feels like Ravnica," much like mana Myr were supposed to make Scars feel like Mirrodin.
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
You have yet to provide any evidence of this being the case. All you have provided is evidence of one member of R&D stating that they would never print those cards today.
There are several cases of cards being reprinted that are more powerful than they would normally print under current development philosophy. They occasionally like to do this to sell a set to people who either have fond memories of the old card, or who wish to play with especially powerful cards that they would otherwise not get the chance to.
Since the signets have already been printed, the issue of whether or not they will be printed now is not in question. They exist, wether or not WotC would print them now. That means they are fair game for reprinting, though obviously development would have to be very careful with the other cards they print in the same format, like they were when they reprinted lightning bolt and mana leak (the interaction with snapcaster mage was an oversight, which they hoped to fix with the printing of cavern of souls, as the article you referenced points out.)
In conclusion:
We have established that one member of R&D says they wouldn't print new signets now. We have also established that cards are occasionally reprinted despite being more powerful than anything they would currently print, though they are very careful when the do so to avoid potentially abuseable interactions, and to print hate for any that they miss. There also happens to be ten new arts depicting the guild crests, which were previewed as art from return to ravnica block. We have also seen that at least two of those arts are arts for signets.
There are three possible conclusions that can be drawn from this.
1. The development team as a whole decided that standard could handle the reprinting of signets if they were careful about it, and they are being reprinted.
2. The development team as a whole decided that standard could handle two signets, but not all ten, and Izzet signet and Golgari signet are being reprinted. The similar style of the other eight arts depicting the guild crests is a coincidence.
3. The art for ten cards, at least two of which happen to be signets, and the other eight of which bear enough artistic similarity to assume are likely also signets, were for some reason previewed as art for RtR block, even though at least two of them are not actually being printed in RtR block.
In my opinion, the first looks considerably more likely than either of the others, though I will admit that the third is also much more likely than the second.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
I'm not sure what the point of this is. You can't use filters to determine what's not in the original image. You could probably come up with a different series of filters to make it look like a 3. Or a 9, for that matter.
The difference between a 1 and a 3 comes down to a small number (perhaps just 1) of pixels in the image. At that level, using filters is likely to make things worse. And the difference (either way) could easily be a JPEG compression artifact.
Bottom line is that we won't know until it's added to the visual spoiler and we can spancount.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
It's a standard thing to do if the problem is that the image is blurry. That's not the case here. The problem is lack of resolution, not blurriness. Sharpening can't help with that; it can't add pixels which don't exist.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Commander
R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control
GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock
WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
Gotta be. Those arts still have to go somewhere.
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
And those cards are not probably Signets.
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
How can they be anything BUT signets, considering they already used 2 on Signets in the Duel Decks?
Izzet Signet
Golgari Signet
There's no precedent for alternate arts being used later on different cards.
Therefore either:
(a) Signets are in Sinker
(b) There are no signets in this block, though they commissioned and promoted the art for them
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Made sure it has a nice presentation and I think the lime adds an extra touch.
Are there any condiments you wish with this?
Griefing isn't fun.
Had no idea people would get so heated about this. Christ.
Regardless, the arts are almost certainly Signets, and surely they wouldn't get new art just to show off. My bet is on Sinker, if Keyrunes do knock Signets out of the race.
While I'm at it (and I don't remember exactly what was said), Maro vaguely hinted at three color cards in Sinker in response to a question on Tumblr. That's what it seemed like to me. That would most certainly be interesting. Maybe a collapse of the guilds and the members start merging with others? That would be neat.
:symw::symr:Boros Legion:symr::symw:
:symg::symu:Fungus/Tokens:symu::symg:
COMMANDER:
:symg:Nylea:symg:
:symu::symb:Szadek:symb::symu:
:symu::symg:Edric:symg::symu:
:symr::symg:Stonebrow:symg::symr:
:symb::symu::symr:Nekusar:symr::symu::symb:
:symu:Talrand:symu: