A lot of the preview art has featured the guild seals. While, yes, some of those will be the charms, some of the art seems to show off just the seal and only the seal, as opposed to being attached to a member of the guild that the charms seem to be.
So the question is... will we see reprints of the Signet cycle from the original Ravnica?
A lot of the preview art has featured the guild seals. While, yes, some of those will be the charms, some of the art seems to show off just the seal and only the seal, as opposed to being attached to a member of the guild that the charms seem to be.
So the question is... will we see reprints of the Signet cycle from the original Ravnica?
100% no. The signets were deemed too powerful the first time around so they're likely going to be replaced. In draft/sealed you almost always first picked signets even if they were offcolor just because they're insane in terms of ramping up any color. Wizards is going to be printing new mana rocks I'm guessing although they haven't spoiled them yet.
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100% no. The signets were deemed too powerful the first time around so they're likely going to be replaced. In draft/sealed you almost always first picked signets even if they were offcolor just because they're insane in terms of ramping up any color. Wizards is going to be printing new mana rocks I'm guessing although they haven't spoiled them yet.
This
No reprints of Signets or Remand, no matter how much everyone wants them they 100% won't be back.
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If they bring signets back they need to bring them back exactly how they were. They need to STOP trying to make almost every thing non creature underpowered. The signets were fine they were not too good. The argument that it fixes mana easily is invalid because thats what they were supposed to do make you guild spells easier to cast and easily fix your mana for limited. If they do them the way you guys are talking they may as well not do them at all.
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Signs are definitely pointing to "yes".
Now, if only they'd also give us the Bouncelands, too...
Now I know there is a good argument against Bouncelands and the signets in which they are deemed too powerful, they ramp your mana supply and in some cases now they can be abused, such as Rewind+Bouncelands.
But if you take a look at the mechanics of RTR such as Scavenge and Overload, a large mana pool is needed to make them playable. If we do not get access to a way to boost the size of our mana pools they could end up being weaker in comparison to non-mana related mechanics such as Populate.
And lastly, I think the signets and bouncelands are some of the things that made the first set great. You could get mana fixing for your deck with out having to sell a kidney to get the cash for them. I know they play havoc on Draft but you know what, they were not the first set of cards to do it and they won't be the last to do so either.
Yeah, they try not to "wreak havoc on Draft" anymore. They've said that the color fixing in Rav 1.0 was abused (signets and karoos being used for splashing, not supporting guild mana) .. or rather, used in unintended ways. If they were to include them this time around, they would have to focus on the mana fixing to make sure it wasn't too easy.
And while the signets do ramp (you spend one mana to get two), the karoo lands don't. You get a land that taps for two mana, but you have to bounce one of your lands, so you only net one additional [land] mana per turn. They do, however, make it so you're more likely to make more land drops. And with Rewind, I just don't think the karoos are a good idea for Standard. If they do come back, I'm pretty much only playing control for the rest of this next Standard season.
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Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Rewind was around at the same time as bounce lands before and it didnt hurt anything at all. It wouldnt make a difference anyway because we effectively cant counter creature spells anyway and its too expensive to be just a negate.
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Rewind was around at the same time as bounce lands before and it didnt hurt anything at all.
I've had the same thought.
Other "free" spells like Time Spiral and Snap are *way* more broken with Bouncelands, IMO.
In a best case scenario, Bouncelands + Rewind = 4 extra mana with a very strict timing constraint.
Unless you have a lot of other great Instants,
I doubt you'd be able to consistently use more than what you already get back from Rewind.
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How are Signets being in the Duel Deck confirming anything?
Brainstorm is in the Izzet deck, and there is no way on Earth Wizards is ever going to reprint Brainstorm. Not even for the fact it would be in standard with Snapcaster, but it would be legal in Modern. There are also dredge cards in the golgari side, and dredge isn't coming back.
I'll believe Signets are in when Wizards spoils them.
How are Signets being in the Duel Deck confirming anything?
Brainstorm is in the Izzet deck, and there is no way on Earth Wizards is ever going to reprint Brainstorm. Not even for the fact it would be in standard with Snapcaster, but it would be legal in Modern. There are also dredge cards in the golgari side, and dredge isn't coming back.
I'll believe Signets are in when Wizards spoils them.
It is almost certainly confirmation for two reasons.
1. We have new art that was previewed for RTR and GTC.
Agreed that WOTC doesn't like them. I also don't like them. But ignoring evidence is stupid. They are almost certainly bad. 1 + 2 does not equal 1.
I don't understand what is bad about them. The time that Signets were legal in standard led to the most diverse and fun standard environment. Being able to cast your spells is a good thing. Green should not have a monopoly on ramp and mana fixing. Those are two aspects of the game that just lead to better, more fun game play.
Ummm... Pardon my ignorance and confusion, but why would anyone in their right mind consider the signets "too strong"? Is that assessment honestly for real or completely sarcastic? Compared to moxen, mana crypt, and countless other mana fixers we've seen over the years in type 2 like lotus petal, mana vault, fellwar stone, etc, even the diamond cycle (see charcoal diamond) isn't particularly fast or efficient (in my opinion).
What's next?... Labeling the borderpost cycle as "completely broken"?!
The way I see it, if birds of paradise is perfectly acceptable and not considered "too strong" to see countless reprints from one year to the next, how could anyone logically consider the signets as being stronger or faster in any way, shape or form? What am I missing? Were they somehow abused in affinity decks or something that I'm unaware of?
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
I think the reason birds was okay and signets disliked is because signets were harder to kill, and didn't 'dies to creature removal spell' as it were, like birds does.
That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with the signets at all myself and whoever is making these 'power level is too high!' decisions at WOTC has had a serious brain fart when you consider some of the ridiculous crap that they've come out with of late.
Well rather than saying that signets were too strong, I think it's more accurate to say that they had too strong an effect on the limited environment, especially drafting.
Back in Ravica block, signets had a major impact on how draft was played. They enabled so much ramp and color fixing, that players got to 6 or 7 mana very consistently, often even 8 or 9 mana. Ravnica block as a result played out, in draft (and even in block constructed if I recall the few block constructed games I watched, I'm not a constructed player myself), as being weighted towards cards on the higher end of the curve. Getting high into your mana curve was very reliable, because of signets and bounce lands. This meant that spells that in other blocks would be considered too costly to be viable, were not too costly in Ravnica limited play.
Now that Return to Ravnica doesn't have bouncelands anymore, it's going to be harder to hit the higher ends of the curve consistently, just like it is for other formats. Taking away signets would go even further in that direction.
Back in the Ravnica days you could often have an opening hand with two bouncelands, a regular land, and a signet. That is 6 mana right there in your opening hand and you still have 3 other cards. This really led to a very different 'feel' for the Ravnica block than other blocks. I guess they want to tone down that feel a little bit for Return to Ravnica.
Ah ok... so they were too strong for limited play. Sure... That makes a lot more sense. Originally I thought people considered them too strong for constructed and in my mind I was thinking "wtf are these inexperienced new players talking about?" Hmmm...So perhaps the right balance would be more Myr... What about some 2/2 myrs that cost three colorless to cast and can be tapped for one mana (of one of two colors). Would something like that be too strong for limited? Considering how good chromatic lantern is, I think such mana producing creatures would be quite reasonable.
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
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So the question is... will we see reprints of the Signet cycle from the original Ravnica?
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:symg::symu:Fungus/Tokens:symu::symg:
COMMANDER:
:symg:Nylea:symg:
:symu::symb:Szadek:symb::symu:
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:symb::symu::symr:Nekusar:symr::symu::symb:
:symu:Talrand:symu:
100% no. The signets were deemed too powerful the first time around so they're likely going to be replaced. In draft/sealed you almost always first picked signets even if they were offcolor just because they're insane in terms of ramping up any color. Wizards is going to be printing new mana rocks I'm guessing although they haven't spoiled them yet.
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This
No reprints of Signets or Remand, no matter how much everyone wants them they 100% won't be back.
CD Mana Rock {2}
Artifact
{1}, {T}: Add C or D to your mana pool.
And that is just awful compared to Prophetic Prism and still worse than Mana Cylix, one of the worst fixers of all time IMO.
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:symu::symb:Szadek:symb::symu:
:symu::symg:Edric:symg::symu:
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Signs are definitely pointing to "yes".
Now, if only they'd also give us the Bouncelands, too...
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
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WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
That card should cost 0 mana. Actually, that would be pretty neat.
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:symu:::symr:UR Facts:symu::symr:
Now I know there is a good argument against Bouncelands and the signets in which they are deemed too powerful, they ramp your mana supply and in some cases now they can be abused, such as Rewind+Bouncelands.
But if you take a look at the mechanics of RTR such as Scavenge and Overload, a large mana pool is needed to make them playable. If we do not get access to a way to boost the size of our mana pools they could end up being weaker in comparison to non-mana related mechanics such as Populate.
And lastly, I think the signets and bouncelands are some of the things that made the first set great. You could get mana fixing for your deck with out having to sell a kidney to get the cash for them. I know they play havoc on Draft but you know what, they were not the first set of cards to do it and they won't be the last to do so either.
And while the signets do ramp (you spend one mana to get two), the karoo lands don't. You get a land that taps for two mana, but you have to bounce one of your lands, so you only net one additional [land] mana per turn. They do, however, make it so you're more likely to make more land drops. And with Rewind, I just don't think the karoos are a good idea for Standard. If they do come back, I'm pretty much only playing control for the rest of this next Standard season.
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
:symu:::symr:UR Facts:symu::symr:
I've had the same thought.
Other "free" spells like Time Spiral and Snap are *way* more broken with Bouncelands, IMO.
In a best case scenario, Bouncelands + Rewind = 4 extra mana with a very strict timing constraint.
Unless you have a lot of other great Instants,
I doubt you'd be able to consistently use more than what you already get back from Rewind.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Brainstorm is in the Izzet deck, and there is no way on Earth Wizards is ever going to reprint Brainstorm. Not even for the fact it would be in standard with Snapcaster, but it would be legal in Modern. There are also dredge cards in the golgari side, and dredge isn't coming back.
I'll believe Signets are in when Wizards spoils them.
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R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
It is almost certainly confirmation for two reasons.
1. We have new art that was previewed for RTR and GTC.
2. That art showed up on Signets.
1 + 2 = 3
Signets are in.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
What do you mean that art showed up on signets? Can I get a link/attached JPEG?
Edit: FOUND IT! WOO HOO SIGNETS BABY!!!
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
No, they aren't. Wotc doesn't like them.
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Agreed that WOTC doesn't like them. I also don't like them. But ignoring evidence is stupid. They are almost certainly bad. 1 + 2 does not equal 1.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
I don't understand what is bad about them. The time that Signets were legal in standard led to the most diverse and fun standard environment. Being able to cast your spells is a good thing. Green should not have a monopoly on ramp and mana fixing. Those are two aspects of the game that just lead to better, more fun game play.
What's next?... Labeling the borderpost cycle as "completely broken"?!
The way I see it, if birds of paradise is perfectly acceptable and not considered "too strong" to see countless reprints from one year to the next, how could anyone logically consider the signets as being stronger or faster in any way, shape or form? What am I missing? Were they somehow abused in affinity decks or something that I'm unaware of?
Well rather than saying that signets were too strong, I think it's more accurate to say that they had too strong an effect on the limited environment, especially drafting.
Back in Ravica block, signets had a major impact on how draft was played. They enabled so much ramp and color fixing, that players got to 6 or 7 mana very consistently, often even 8 or 9 mana. Ravnica block as a result played out, in draft (and even in block constructed if I recall the few block constructed games I watched, I'm not a constructed player myself), as being weighted towards cards on the higher end of the curve. Getting high into your mana curve was very reliable, because of signets and bounce lands. This meant that spells that in other blocks would be considered too costly to be viable, were not too costly in Ravnica limited play.
Now that Return to Ravnica doesn't have bouncelands anymore, it's going to be harder to hit the higher ends of the curve consistently, just like it is for other formats. Taking away signets would go even further in that direction.
Back in the Ravnica days you could often have an opening hand with two bouncelands, a regular land, and a signet. That is 6 mana right there in your opening hand and you still have 3 other cards. This really led to a very different 'feel' for the Ravnica block than other blocks. I guess they want to tone down that feel a little bit for Return to Ravnica.