That's the point of this thread: to slightly adjust red's drawing power in the color pie. They already have cards like that, Burning Inquiry, Goblin Lore, etc, and they were all pretty much unplayable. That's why if you switch the order of discard, draw, then these options become viable for red. Discarding, then drawing is actually not that powerful. If you are in a position where that become pure draw for you, then you're already in a bad position anyway.
If you play your entire hand out, and then refill it, how would that be a bad position? The necropotence decks of black summer did that very thing; empty their hands using dark rituals and cheap weenie creatures, then refill and replace what they already played.
Given that red has acquired fast mana rituals over the years, the most dangerous thing wotc could do is give that same color access to good draw spells. And yes, discard, then draw, is not only completely playable, but very very good.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
You'd better be trolling sir..you'd better be trolling.
No, I'm quite serious. That about sums up my faith in Wizards. They always print at least one busted card per set, usually at mythic, sometimes at rare. Although I doubt my joke card would actually see print, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it did, to boost sales if nothing else...
After we've gotten our "Miracle" mechanic for AVR, what do you guys thing the odds could be that the red looting is actually more 'brainstorm', ie:
T: Draw a card, then put a card from your hand on top of your library
It doesn't exactly fit much better into red than any other draw mechanic I've seen thematically, besides the 'random discard' (which everyone universally hates). But it would tie in with the mechanic here, and give red a significantly different method of looting. It wouldn't let you dig for cards more than one deep per turn, avoiding blues "searching the library" niche, but it let you set up more explosive combos and play with an essentially 1 bigger hand.
The new red PW may give some ideas for how they are moving looting into red. Although, giving red a strictly inferior version of looting seems kind of silly. If it stays in the draw, discard same number at random formate it'll be as usefull as reds other marque mechanic, Land destruction!
I don't think the planeswalker gives us any indication. Black doesn't tend to get each player discards a card anymore than blue tends to get each player draws a card. Planeswalker + abilities tend to be weaker than normal since you can use them for free, every turn. We'll just have to wait for the commons/uncommons where we're likely to get a normal, red filter spell.
The PWer might not be total confirmation, but he's still a bad omen indicating the draw/random discard that everyone universally hates and will never go near with a 10 ft pole. Its still possible we'll be relieved, and heck, maybe find out conclusively down the line, even in this very set as you say above in commons/uncommons, but I'm not holding my breath
While it would be a very powerful mechanic, it feels less red to me than normal, "draw then discard" looting.
If anything, I'd give red regular looting and give blue brainstorm-filtering.
Powerful, aye. You know, now that you say it, switching the lootings so red gets regular looting and switching blue to the newer mechanic, actually makes a good deal of sense.
As you will see when all the Avacyn Restored cards are public we've started to define how red looting is different from blue. (Hint: different order of the effects.)
Seems like a pretty straightforward hint that we are going to get discard-then-draw looting, and not random discard as the default (thank god).
I'd be afraid that if its discard-then-draw, it would be placed at higher power levels due to the natural card advantage, and we wouldn't see it on any 2-slots the goblin looter example from a few pages back. If its only at 3+ cmc, I'd be sad. Still, one can hope.
I'd be afraid that if its discard-then-draw, it would be placed at higher power levels due to the natural card advantage, and we wouldn't see it on any 2-slots the goblin looter example from a few pages back. If its only at 3+ cmc, I'd be sad. Still, one can hope.
Not if it's part of the cost. It'll still be plenty powerful, even if CA is almost always Neutral. Simply being able to pick cards you know you don't want and chuck them for cards you might is very red. As is the risk of tossing something it'll turn out you would have wanted if you hadn't discarded.
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"Put a card from your hand on top of your library, then put a card from your graveyard into your hand. Put this spell from the stack into your hand, then add mana to your mana pool equal to its casting cost. Remove this card from the game and put it in an open booster pack. Seal it shut and exchange it in your local store for cash money."
dont agree bro
taking Merfolk Looter from blue wouldn't come without compensation for blue, as it has said before, draw/discard is a better fit for red than draw/put on top of library.
of course, discard/draw is more red than draw/discard.
but then there's other ways to filter that are not being discussed here.
what i'm trying to say here is that blue has the lion's share of all filtering effects, and that losing one, whichever one that is (even if it is regular looting), wouldn't be a big hit.
also i had discard/draw as looting for red since quite a long time, vindication feelz good
As a Mono-Blue Drawmill player in Standard I was looking for some reasons to splash/dual Red. Civilized Scholar was the beginning of me considering it but it seriously just lacks power (needs Trample imo for its flip and it'd be great).
Regardless I'm liking all the Draw-Discard, since everytime I draw they mill a few (Jace's Erasure ftw)
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I have a feeling they won't all involve discarding your entire hand. That's probably more for the ones they want to really push for constructed. Blue gets draw 2 at instant for 3U as a baseline. A red looter card would probably just be discard one, then, draw one.
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If you play your entire hand out, and then refill it, how would that be a bad position? The necropotence decks of black summer did that very thing; empty their hands using dark rituals and cheap weenie creatures, then refill and replace what they already played.
Given that red has acquired fast mana rituals over the years, the most dangerous thing wotc could do is give that same color access to good draw spells. And yes, discard, then draw, is not only completely playable, but very very good.
You'd better be trolling sir..you'd better be trolling.
After we've gotten our "Miracle" mechanic for AVR, what do you guys thing the odds could be that the red looting is actually more 'brainstorm', ie:
T: Draw a card, then put a card from your hand on top of your library
It doesn't exactly fit much better into red than any other draw mechanic I've seen thematically, besides the 'random discard' (which everyone universally hates). But it would tie in with the mechanic here, and give red a significantly different method of looting. It wouldn't let you dig for cards more than one deep per turn, avoiding blues "searching the library" niche, but it let you set up more explosive combos and play with an essentially 1 bigger hand.
Oh wait.
While it would be a very powerful mechanic, it feels less red to me than normal, "draw then discard" looting.
If anything, I'd give red regular looting and give blue brainstorm-filtering.
Powerful, aye. You know, now that you say it, switching the lootings so red gets regular looting and switching blue to the newer mechanic, actually makes a good deal of sense.
From Mark's AMA on Reddit:
Seems like a pretty straightforward hint that we are going to get discard-then-draw looting, and not random discard as the default (thank god).
Not if it's part of the cost. It'll still be plenty powerful, even if CA is almost always Neutral. Simply being able to pick cards you know you don't want and chuck them for cards you might is very red. As is the risk of tossing something it'll turn out you would have wanted if you hadn't discarded.
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dont agree bro
taking Merfolk Looter from blue wouldn't come without compensation for blue, as it has said before, draw/discard is a better fit for red than draw/put on top of library.
of course, discard/draw is more red than draw/discard.
but then there's other ways to filter that are not being discussed here.
what i'm trying to say here is that blue has the lion's share of all filtering effects, and that losing one, whichever one that is (even if it is regular looting), wouldn't be a big hit.
also i had discard/draw as looting for red since quite a long time, vindication feelz good
Regardless I'm liking all the Draw-Discard, since everytime I draw they mill a few (Jace's Erasure ftw)
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