I think Baneslayer was way overhyped from the start. It is amazing, I'll admit, but like any creature that doesn't have shroud, Terminate is a very quick solution. There are so many different removal spells that the actual threat of Baneslayer is minimal. If BSA had shroud, then I think $50 would be a little more understandable. If it gets reprinted in M11, then that's cool. If not, then no big deal either.
I think Baneslayer was way overhyped from the start. It is amazing, I'll admit, but like any creature that doesn't have shroud, Terminate is a very quick solution.
The point is that if they don't have removal for it in hand, its a ten point life swing... every turn. Cards that say "do you have removal? If 'no,' then GG." For 5 mana are pretty good.
I mean, do you think Tarmogoyf is overhyped? It also dies to Terminate, as does Psychatog.
Would a 10/10 trample lifelink with no drawbacks for 1 mana also be overhyped? If it died to Terminate?
Baneslayer Angel3WW
Creature-Angel
Flying, first strike, lifelink, protection from Demons and from Dragons.
5/5
Archmage Sphinx3UU
Creature-Sphinx
Flying, shroud, vigilance, protection from Dragons and from Wurms.
5/5
Darkdefiler Demon3BB
Creature-Demon
Flying, first strike, deathtouch, protection from Angels and from Wurms.
5/5
Worldburner Dragon3RR
Creature-Dragon
Flying, double strike, trample, protection from Angels and from Sphinxes.
5/5
Groundspitter Wurm3GG
Creature-Wurm
Shroud, reach, trample, protection from Demons and from Sphinxes.
7/7
This sounds like the worst thing ever. Personally I hope that BSA isn't in M11. It's kind of a slap in the face to have archon of redemption in the same standard as BSA, especially considering that the first comparison made when it comes to archon is how much better it is than angel of mercy. I realize that you are probably just making a joke, but I don't even want to think about balancing busted things by busting more things. I like the way that things have been balanced after mistakes in recent years, specifically referring to printing volcanic fallout and great sable stag to balance fae, which were both fair cards that dealt with an absurd strategy. However, sometimes you just have to throw in the towel. When it came to affinity they needed a ban and when it comes to BSA they need to just not reprint it and take a step back in creature efficiency. A step forward in countermagic wouldn't hurt either, though I think removal is about where it needs to be right now.
The point is that if they don't have removal for it in hand, its a ten point life swing... every turn. Cards that say "do you have removal? If 'no,' then GG." For 5 mana are pretty good.
I mean, do you think Tarmogoyf is overhyped? It also dies to Terminate, as does Psychatog.
Would a 10/10 trample lifelink with no drawbacks for 1 mana also be overhyped? If it died to Terminate?
Very true. I do agree though that Baneslayer is a very sick card, especially for 5 mana, I guess it all depends on what the board and your hand look like. I just don't think it's worth $50 is all.
what I would like to see in m11 is a bunch of good cards not one or two.
Standard shouldnt be just limited to a couple workhorses in the game and settle on it. Like a friend told me the set before time spiral and time sprial was good because of mutlple bombs not just a few bombs everyone must have in their deck. Right now its about 3 decks that just are seen over and over. I am refering to R/W/U control, Jund and Vampires. Others are just too inconsistent to make it. Jund owns Vamps, R/W/U owns Jund, Vamps own R/W/U.
If white gets Baneslayer I will be pissed if it gets another great bomb its has Baneslayer it doesnt need anything really else besides most colors doesn't receive one good "playable" rare or mythic let alone 2 in a set.
Creatures like BSA should not be printed. I mean...not yet. The power creep is a bit too far and a creature like that is hardly an "accident" like Tarmogoyf. Power creep like BSA severely limits the viability of other cards. With BSA, why would you ever play something like Archon of Redemption? A card like Archon of Redemption might actually have been considered for play if BSA did not exist. 3 life + a flier that doesn't die to lightning bolt is pretty good. Plus it can potentially keep gaining you life.
Wizards has to now make 5 mana fliers very powerful for people to even consider it for play. Because everyone will measure 5 mana fliers to BSA.
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"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded." - from Dr Jeebus's Sig
BSA should be in m11, so should lightning bolt, great stable stag, but i think we should get thoughtsieze, counterspell and urza tron lands back with the new eldrazi set coming out. plus, m11 is based on domineria again, right?
what I would like to see in m11 is a bunch of good cards not one or two.
Standard shouldnt be just limited to a couple workhorses in the game and settle on it. Like a friend told me the set before time spiral and time sprial was good because of mutlple bombs not just a few bombs everyone must have in their deck. Right now its about 3 decks that just are seen over and over.
If white gets Baneslayer I will be pissed if it gets another great bomb its has Baneslayer it doesnt need anything really else besides most colors doesn't receive one good "playable" rare or mythic let alone 2 in a set.
QFT!
Also, the other colors need moar lovin if she stays, to hell if it "makes jund more powerful." Cascade will only have a few more months in standard by that time anyway.
Recent discussions here and elsewhere have made it clear that there seems to be a group of players who consider blue and control synonymous, as if they somehow started playing a game with four identical and "bad" colors that do nothing interesting because they just "turn men sideways" and then true, glorious blue, the only thinking person's color.
EDH decks
Marath, Will of the Wild
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Marchesa, the Black Rose
I wouldn't say that most mythics aren't playable, and definitely not most of the mythics from M10.
And why would wizards decide not to reprint a card that is obviously so hugely popular? I mean, they are a business after all.
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I wouldn't say that most mythics aren't playable, and definitely not most of the mythics from M10.
And why would wizards decide not to reprint a card that is obviously so hugely popular? I mean, they are a business after all.
because health of the game? it's a must play card in any deck playing W. i can.t play white anymore for want of heaps of money to throw on playset.
consequence? i stop playing standart and go play eternal. hey, look who's losing money now!
because health of the game? it's a must play card in any deck playing W. i can.t play white anymore for want of heaps of money to throw on playset.
consequence? i stop playing standart and go play eternal. hey, look who's losing money now!
Well, Eternal's not that cheap either. But the best thing is the 10 proxy rule.
As for Baneslayer', I think she'll get reprinted. WOTC is all about making money now, and it's about what's best for them, not best for the game.
because health of the game? it's a must play card in any deck playing W. i can.t play white anymore for want of heaps of money to throw on playset.
consequence? i stop playing standart and go play eternal. hey, look who's losing money now!
You can play white without a set of baneslayers. Infact, one of the most powerful white decks in existence (White weenie) doesn't generally run any baneslayers at all.
You can play against standard decks that have baneslayers and win. Just because a baneslayer is a very powerful card, doesn't mean it's invincible. Just because a deck has a baneslayer, doesn't mean it is assured victory. They still die to pretty much every creature removal spell in the game.
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You can play white without a set of baneslayers. Infact, one of the most powerful white decks in existence (White weenie) doesn't generally run any baneslayers at all.
You can play against standard decks that have baneslayers and win. Just because a baneslayer is a very powerful card, doesn't mean it's invincible. Just because a deck has a baneslayer, doesn't mean it is assured victory. They still die to pretty much every creature removal spell in the game.
Really look at the tournaments winners and guess again. White deck wins doesn't contently win enough. Almost all the top decks play white somehow plays Baneslayer. 5 for 5/5 First Strike, Lifelink is very Relevant in this format. I can check but does White deck win at anything in the pro-arena if so... where??????
Lets get this clear you play white YOU PLAY BANESLAYER. This is almost like cryptic command level play. You look at the power curve she outclasses every other creature it offers literally. So my answer is NO less they print good cards for other colors in the set or dont make any other awesome cards for white because then white has its winner already.
I'm fine with the creature-based power creep, and hope to see Baneslayer Angel in M11. Big, hard-hitting creatures is good for the game, and Baneslayer does not see play in every deck with access to white mana, just as Tarmogoyf does not see play in every deck with access to green mana. Even Cryptic Command is not played in every deck with access to blue mana. They are great cards, but they aren't the end-all-be-all of the game. Tarmogoyf sees play in the eternal formats, and I'm convinced that it is much more powerful than Baneslayer, yet despite that fact that both Goyf and Baneslayer are extended-legal, neither card saw the table in the final match of GP-Oakland. They may be some of the best cards, but they are not always in the best decks, and so I do not feel they are degenerate or a threat to the game. I would like to see the creature-power creep expand beyond green and white- red needs some better dragons. Black got a small taste with Tombstalker, and Blue got a small taste with Sphinx of Jwar Isle. I would go so far as to say that despite costing more mana, Sphinx of Jwar Isle may be better than Baneslayer due to having shroud. Lifelink is great if the creature hits, but shroud helps ensure the hit turn after turn.
Really look at the tournaments winners and guess again. White deck wins doesn't contently win enough. Almost all the top decks play white somehow plays Baneslayer. 5 for 5/5 First Strike, Lifelink is very Relevant in this format. I can check but does White deck win at anything in the pro-arena if so... where??????
Lets get this clear you play white YOU PLAY BANESLAYER. This is almost like cryptic command level play. You look at the power curve she outclasses every other creature it offers literally. So my answer is NO less they print good cards for other colors in the set or dont make any other awesome cards for white because then white has its winner already.
Have you seen Boros Bushwhacker? You know, the second most played and pretty successful aggro list behind Jund (ok, and maybe Vampires). They don't play Baneslayer because their curve doesn't allow it, they are the White Weenie rush of today's standard. That said, anything mid-range and white should of course play Baneslayer, because she's the best creature at the top of the curve, just as any efficient 5-6 drop would get played. Control doesn't even always play her unless out of the sideboard because she's not the ideal control finisher, and in that respect she's competing with Sphinx of Jwar-Isle.
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Tournament Victories:
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
Really look at the tournaments winners and guess again. White deck wins doesn't contently win enough. Almost all the top decks play white somehow plays Baneslayer. 5 for 5/5 First Strike, Lifelink is very Relevant in this format. I can check but does White deck win at anything in the pro-arena if so... where??????
Lets get this clear you play white YOU PLAY BANESLAYER. This is almost like cryptic command level play. You look at the power curve she outclasses every other creature it offers literally. So my answer is NO less they print good cards for other colors in the set or dont make any other awesome cards for white because then white has its winner already.
If you are playing pro tour, you obviously aren't hurting for money, in which case it would make sense to buy a few.
Lets get this clear YOU PLAY WHITE, YOU PLAY PLAINS. It doesn't matter if you have a baneslayer or not, you can still win.
There are only five cards in magic the gathering that you cannot win without. They are called plains, forests, mountains, swamps, and islands.
I see white decks win tournaments all the time with not a baneslayer in sight. Beating jund, naya, and bushwhacker (Another white variant without the baneslayer).
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Oh gosh no. I dont want it comming back because it was one of the most rediculously cheap creatures of all time.
"Yeah i'll tap 5 for a 5/5 lifelink first strike, flying, protection from demons and dragons"
Halo hunter Useless
Any dragons in jund or mono red, Useless
All burn spells, Useless
Most other flying creatures Useless!!!
The only thing it really had to fear was vampires and eldrazi green because vampires had Bloodwitch and eldrazi green was the only deck that could pump out flying creatures bigger than it.
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You remember that time when we did that thing?
Nope.
Exactly.
This goes and proves how stupid Core set every dang year is, if they treated it like the block where there be two core sets I would be fine with it but those whole noation that 2 Blocks(which stay 2 years) and a core(1 year) forces a demand and like this debate there are cards will be cut which is pivtal or in this case will never see Extended or any deck after standard. Baneslayer is meant for type2/Limited. outside its not as good with the combo decks and the premission decks it doesnt hold a candle. My main thought people want it is because their 75 dollar baneslayer will drop to 10 baneslayers. If I were you time to sell them after PTQ in april/may and just hope suckers believe baneslayer will make into M11.
This goes and proves how stupid Core set every dang year is, if they treated it like the block where there be two core sets I would be fine with it but those whole noation that 2 Blocks(which stay 2 years) and a core(1 year) forces a demand and like this debate there are cards will be cut which is pivtal or in this case will never see Extended or any deck after standard. Baneslayer is meant for type2/Limited. outside its not as good with the combo decks and the premission decks it doesnt hold a candle. My main thought people want it is because their 75 dollar baneslayer will drop to 10 baneslayers. If I were you time to sell them after PTQ in april/may and just hope suckers believe baneslayer will make into M11.
I completely agree with you.:) There should be no reason anyone wants massive power creep, it makes the game way too swingy as very few cards actually matter -- everything else is outclassed by them and so matters a whole lot less. At this point I think that even the people who play Baneslayer agree that it isn't good for the health of the game. I really see no reason to want it coming back other than protecting one's personal investments, but the health of the game is far more important than that and I am actually looking forward to a decrease in the power level of many cards, as that will put standard back to about where it should be. Some blocks always have to be less powerful than others, and I think that Zen block is decreasing the power level and that "Lights" will put standard back down to a place from where it can start increasing in power again.
Has anyone noticed that BSA prices on EBAY seen to be dropping towards $30-$35? I wonder if the Pro Tour, where BSA wasn't so visible and uncertainty of whether it will be in standard this Fall is influencing prices?
Exactly no one knows. Do want to take a chance right now if Baneslayer gets cut Extended deck will not make them $20 mythics let alone $50. You just lost lots of money hoping and praying for something that's a maybe at best.
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They're ALL 'too good,' that's the point. All 5.
(see what I did there?)
The point is that if they don't have removal for it in hand, its a ten point life swing... every turn. Cards that say "do you have removal? If 'no,' then GG." For 5 mana are pretty good.
I mean, do you think Tarmogoyf is overhyped? It also dies to Terminate, as does Psychatog.
Would a 10/10 trample lifelink with no drawbacks for 1 mana also be overhyped? If it died to Terminate?
This sounds like the worst thing ever. Personally I hope that BSA isn't in M11. It's kind of a slap in the face to have archon of redemption in the same standard as BSA, especially considering that the first comparison made when it comes to archon is how much better it is than angel of mercy. I realize that you are probably just making a joke, but I don't even want to think about balancing busted things by busting more things. I like the way that things have been balanced after mistakes in recent years, specifically referring to printing volcanic fallout and great sable stag to balance fae, which were both fair cards that dealt with an absurd strategy. However, sometimes you just have to throw in the towel. When it came to affinity they needed a ban and when it comes to BSA they need to just not reprint it and take a step back in creature efficiency. A step forward in countermagic wouldn't hurt either, though I think removal is about where it needs to be right now.
What? Me? Joke? Never!
Very true. I do agree though that Baneslayer is a very sick card, especially for 5 mana, I guess it all depends on what the board and your hand look like. I just don't think it's worth $50 is all.
Well, it seems others disagree with you. Things are "worth" what others are willing to pay for them.
Standard shouldnt be just limited to a couple workhorses in the game and settle on it. Like a friend told me the set before time spiral and time sprial was good because of mutlple bombs not just a few bombs everyone must have in their deck. Right now its about 3 decks that just are seen over and over. I am refering to R/W/U control, Jund and Vampires. Others are just too inconsistent to make it. Jund owns Vamps, R/W/U owns Jund, Vamps own R/W/U.
If white gets Baneslayer I will be pissed if it gets another great bomb its has Baneslayer it doesnt need anything really else besides most colors doesn't receive one good "playable" rare or mythic let alone 2 in a set.
Wizards has to now make 5 mana fliers very powerful for people to even consider it for play. Because everyone will measure 5 mana fliers to BSA.
Standard: RUG Humans
Modern: Delver RUG
*Legacy: Zoo
QFT!
Also, the other colors need moar lovin if she stays, to hell if it "makes jund more powerful." Cascade will only have a few more months in standard by that time anyway.
http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/1/6/5261/20801.jpg
EDH decks
Marath, Will of the Wild
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Marchesa, the Black Rose
And why would wizards decide not to reprint a card that is obviously so hugely popular? I mean, they are a business after all.
Please help me Cause I'm breaking down,
this picture is frozen and I can't get out,
Please help me cause I can't get out,
This pictures frozen and I can't get out of here,
Believe me, I'm just as lost as you...
because health of the game? it's a must play card in any deck playing W. i can.t play white anymore for want of heaps of money to throw on playset.
consequence? i stop playing standart and go play eternal. hey, look who's losing money now!
Well, Eternal's not that cheap either. But the best thing is the 10 proxy rule.
As for Baneslayer', I think she'll get reprinted. WOTC is all about making money now, and it's about what's best for them, not best for the game.
[sigpicmap]
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[/sigpicmap]
Spiderboy4DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the AMAZING sig pic and avvy.You can play white without a set of baneslayers. Infact, one of the most powerful white decks in existence (White weenie) doesn't generally run any baneslayers at all.
You can play against standard decks that have baneslayers and win. Just because a baneslayer is a very powerful card, doesn't mean it's invincible. Just because a deck has a baneslayer, doesn't mean it is assured victory. They still die to pretty much every creature removal spell in the game.
Please help me Cause I'm breaking down,
this picture is frozen and I can't get out,
Please help me cause I can't get out,
This pictures frozen and I can't get out of here,
Believe me, I'm just as lost as you...
Really look at the tournaments winners and guess again. White deck wins doesn't contently win enough. Almost all the top decks play white somehow plays Baneslayer. 5 for 5/5 First Strike, Lifelink is very Relevant in this format. I can check but does White deck win at anything in the pro-arena if so... where??????
Lets get this clear you play white YOU PLAY BANESLAYER. This is almost like cryptic command level play. You look at the power curve she outclasses every other creature it offers literally. So my answer is NO less they print good cards for other colors in the set or dont make any other awesome cards for white because then white has its winner already.
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Have you seen Boros Bushwhacker? You know, the second most played and pretty successful aggro list behind Jund (ok, and maybe Vampires). They don't play Baneslayer because their curve doesn't allow it, they are the White Weenie rush of today's standard. That said, anything mid-range and white should of course play Baneslayer, because she's the best creature at the top of the curve, just as any efficient 5-6 drop would get played. Control doesn't even always play her unless out of the sideboard because she's not the ideal control finisher, and in that respect she's competing with Sphinx of Jwar-Isle.
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
See my alters here: http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q16/jimmy2do/Cards/
If you are playing pro tour, you obviously aren't hurting for money, in which case it would make sense to buy a few.
Lets get this clear YOU PLAY WHITE, YOU PLAY PLAINS. It doesn't matter if you have a baneslayer or not, you can still win.
There are only five cards in magic the gathering that you cannot win without. They are called plains, forests, mountains, swamps, and islands.
I see white decks win tournaments all the time with not a baneslayer in sight. Beating jund, naya, and bushwhacker (Another white variant without the baneslayer).
Please help me Cause I'm breaking down,
this picture is frozen and I can't get out,
Please help me cause I can't get out,
This pictures frozen and I can't get out of here,
Believe me, I'm just as lost as you...
"Yeah i'll tap 5 for a 5/5 lifelink first strike, flying, protection from demons and dragons"
Halo hunter Useless
Any dragons in jund or mono red, Useless
All burn spells, Useless
Most other flying creatures Useless!!!
The only thing it really had to fear was vampires and eldrazi green because vampires had Bloodwitch and eldrazi green was the only deck that could pump out flying creatures bigger than it.
Nope.
Exactly.
I completely agree with you.:) There should be no reason anyone wants massive power creep, it makes the game way too swingy as very few cards actually matter -- everything else is outclassed by them and so matters a whole lot less. At this point I think that even the people who play Baneslayer agree that it isn't good for the health of the game. I really see no reason to want it coming back other than protecting one's personal investments, but the health of the game is far more important than that and I am actually looking forward to a decrease in the power level of many cards, as that will put standard back to about where it should be. Some blocks always have to be less powerful than others, and I think that Zen block is decreasing the power level and that "Lights" will put standard back down to a place from where it can start increasing in power again.