Which creature keyword ability(ies), that hasn't been introduced yet in any of the previous core sets, would you like to see in M11?
Which creature keyword ability(ies), that have been incorporated into the core set from Tenth Edition all the way back to Revised, would you like to see once again in M11?
In an eight player game, is anything good? Don't you just sit there countering combos until someone genesis waves for 42 after all the blue players tap out fighting over a bribery?
This is just wishful thinking, and therefore, imo, pointless. Core sets don't get non-evergreen abilities. Unless they keyword a common ability like lure, or absorb, you're not going to see something new. Flying, first strike, double strike, trample, haste, intimidate, vigilance, lifelink, and deathtouch are pretty much it. Oh, and indestructibility. Except in the form of "(this) is indestructible".
This is just wishful thinking, and therefore, imo, pointless. Core sets don't get non-evergreen abilities. Unless they keyword a common ability like lure, or absorb, you're not going to see something new. Flying, first strike, double strike, trample, haste, intimidate, vigilance, lifelink, and deathtouch are pretty much it. Oh, and indestructibility. Except in the form of "(this) is indestructible".
What you fail to mention is that a lot of those keywords have become evergreen over the years. Any other keywords, if deemed simple enough, could get the same treatment, so I feel this thread is valid. Not to mention old keyword abilities being reworded for core sets.
On topic: I'd love to see Champion become evergreen. It is simple enough, and there is a TON of design space to work with.
What you fail to mention is that a lot of those keywords have become evergreen over the years. Any other keywords, if deemed simple enough, could get the same treatment, so I feel this thread is valid. Not to mention old keyword abilities being reworded for core sets.
On topic: I'd love to see Champion become evergreen. It is simple enough, and there is a TON of design space to work with.
Champion was a block specific ability. See, that's what I'm talking about. Wishful thinking. I also mentioned that old abilities could get keyworded. The best we might see is kicker, cycling, or echo getting the evergreen treatment. We're not going to see things as block specific as Champion, Madness, or Convoke, no matter how much any of us loves them (I personally love Madness, but I know it's not happening.)
Champion was a block specific ability. See, that's what I'm talking about. Wishful thinking. I also mentioned that old abilities could get keyworded. The best we might see is kicker, cycling, or echo getting the evergreen treatment. We're not going to see things as block specific as Champion, Madness, or Convoke, no matter how much any of us loves them (I personally love Madness, but I know it's not happening.)
ALL abilities were block-specific when they were designed. Stupid Trample was "block specific". We have gotten Flash, Vigilance (which I understand are just new keywords for old abilities) as well as Fear and now Intimidate.
While I know we won't see Flashback or Madness as evergreen abilities . . . probably ever, it doesn't change the fact that a couple easier ones could rise to the surface.
Like Champion. Or Cycling or Echo. Or maybe dredge. Who knows?
Core sets is not the place for you to test out design space. It should be simple as possible while teaching the core mechanics of the game. That's the ideal goal anyway.
Cycling and Kicker could probably make it in one day but I'd prefer they focus on less keywords and more resonant spells.
ALL abilities were block-specific when they were designed. Stupid Trample was "block specific". We have gotten Flash, Vigilance (which I understand are just new keywords for old abilities) as well as Fear and now Intimidate.
While I know we won't see Flashback or Madness as evergreen abilities . . . probably ever, it doesn't change the fact that a couple easier ones could rise to the surface.
Like Champion. Or Cycling or Echo. Or maybe dredge. Who knows?
Trample wasn't block specific. It's been around since Alpha. Vigilance was keyworded in Kamigawa, but it was something that's been around since alpha. Same with Flash. Same with Haste. They may not have had keywords in Alpha, like Lure still isn't keyworded, but they've been around since the beginning. The only truly new one is Intimidate, and that's an update to Fear, which has been around since when? You guessed it. Alpha.
So no. Not champion. Probably not cycling or echo, but those are a tad more reasonable. Definitely not dredge.
EDIT: My mistake, not flash. Flash was an idea played around with in 6th ed. Point is that there aren't a whole lot of keyworded abilities that have the honor of becoming evergreen abilities. The next ones up are cycling and kicker, if any.
In the history of the game, only one block mechanic was ever promoted to evergreen, and it's something most people wouldn't even think of: cantripping. Back in the old days, cantrips were indeed treated as a block mechanic, albeit one that was repeated every two or three blocks. Now they show up in varying quantities in nearly every set. (Equipment was very well represented in its debut block due to the block theme and its novelty, but was always designed as an evergreen mechanic. Most other "new" evergreen mechanics are ancient mechanics given keywords; Double Strike was also evergreen from the get-go.)
Would you guys like it if they stopped making Instants or Enchantments?
Yeah...Instants suck...
Seriously though, there was only one card ever with the card type "Mana Source" so it isn't unprecedented for them to not use certain card types again.
I'm also of the opinion that Tribal will be in Rise though...
Would you guys like it if they stopped making Instants or Enchantments?
Yes!!! Thank you!!! I'm tired of the typical 1,000+ poster being an old stick in the mud, glass half empty, realist at the website.
You have positive thinking. So many here like to be the rain on anothers parade just for arguement sake.
And you come in & restore my faith in the 1,000+ posters area.
Back on topic:
There is a lot of design space for every keyword out there. It's a matter of time before one becomes pseunominous w/ Magic to become core set applicable. Cycle & kicker, I think, have the best chance of making it. Just alone playing w/ power/toughness opens up a lot of design space; then the effect of the keyword magnifies it tremendoesly.
For example, look at double strike (which by the way, to all of you naysayers, began it's career as an expansion set keyword ). There can be a creature w/ double strike who's a 1/1, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 2/1, 2/2, 2/3, 2/5, 3/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, etc... get my drift?
What I would like to see go evergreen would be:
Split Second, fateseal, absorb, whither, and flash.
I also would like to see the "one-sided shroud," aka Troll Asceticesque keyword. The Troll was already printed in a core set, why not bring the many words into a keyword.
And the many words of "cannot be blocked by flying creatures or creatures with reach" for ground pounders, think Silhana Ledgewalker (which, btw, off-topic, would be an awesome addition to M11 this summer )
All of the wordiness of the Ledgewalker can be reduced to two words (w/ reminder text [only for 1st reprinting, most likely]).
There is something as "too many keywords". Not everything should be keyworded, there are mechanics that are best left spelled out. Unless they have a good reason to start appearing a lot more commonly.
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Quote from parinoid »
I rolled 5 D6's and got 3 fours. They must have changed the odds of getting a 4!
-Bushido should be renamed and made evergreen. Dammit bushido is a freaking fixed RAMPAGE! what's more core-setable than that? And they had to screw it up and name it bushido, and I fear they'll never have enough courage to accept the renaming of that ability to give it the evergreen status it fully deserves."+1/+1 when attacking or blocking". Such an ability being confined to a single block just doesn't make sense. Sure only samurai can get better when they face the opponent. A berserker? A cornered beast? A hound? neveeeeeer... (sigh)
It's "when blocks or becomes blocked", actually. And I agree, it was a sad thing that the best keywords from Kamigawa ended up with block-specific names. I really like the idea of creatures that are better at creature vs creature combat than at damaging players or resisting burn. (And I really wish that Hand of Cruelty could be reprinted)
Oh, and there is something else besides Samurai that can get this ability: Toads.
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Quote from parinoid »
I rolled 5 D6's and got 3 fours. They must have changed the odds of getting a 4!
...look at double strike (which by the way, to all of you naysayers, began it's career as an expansion set keyword ). There can be a creature w/ double strike who's a 1/1, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 2/1, 2/2, 2/3, 2/5, 3/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, etc... get my drift?
No it didn't. It first appeared in an expansion set, but was designed as an evergreen keyword from the get-go.
Flanking
Provoke
Renamed Bushido, call it Prowess
Frenzy
In my homemade set I brought all those back, plus I keyworded "can't be blocked exept by x or more creatures" as Overwhelm X and the Gustcloak ability as Feint.
Bane's Reading Suggestions David Eddings: The Belgariad, Mallorean, Elenium and Tamuli Series. The Redemption of Althalus Jim Butcher: The Codex Alera Series
I have no idea why cycling isn't already evergreen.
For two excellent reasons:
There are no evergreen keywords that take a variable.
There are no evergreen keywords that heavily overlap with design space for block mechanics.
Cycling is much too similar to many other mechanics like cantrips, kicker, channel, etc. so having it be evergreen leads to awkward situations where those mechanics might co-exist with cycling. It's much better to keep it as a block mechanic and just bring it back every time they want to use it again.
Personally I think (with the exception of not having a keyword-variant of shroud for the troll ability) the evergreen set we have now is basically perfect. Instead of expanding it they should just continue to be more aggressive in reusing old block mechanics when appropriate.
I'm not sure if M11 is the place for all these to return but I'd love to see some the following come back.
Tribal - We've had several cards like Crucible of Fire and Feast of Blood that should have been tribal if the type stayed around. What problems would it have caused to have it stick around
Champion - but not like it was before. It doesn't have to be a tribal mechanic: Champion a land, champion an artifact, champion an equipment, champion a white permanent, champion a dead creature?
Splice - but not with arcane. Splice onto instant, splice onto enchantment, splice onto goblin...
Flanking - I just like it.
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Which creature keyword ability(ies), that have been incorporated into the core set from Tenth Edition all the way back to Revised, would you like to see once again in M11?
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Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
What you fail to mention is that a lot of those keywords have become evergreen over the years. Any other keywords, if deemed simple enough, could get the same treatment, so I feel this thread is valid. Not to mention old keyword abilities being reworded for core sets.
On topic: I'd love to see Champion become evergreen. It is simple enough, and there is a TON of design space to work with.
Champion was a block specific ability. See, that's what I'm talking about. Wishful thinking. I also mentioned that old abilities could get keyworded. The best we might see is kicker, cycling, or echo getting the evergreen treatment. We're not going to see things as block specific as Champion, Madness, or Convoke, no matter how much any of us loves them (I personally love Madness, but I know it's not happening.)
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
ALL abilities were block-specific when they were designed. Stupid Trample was "block specific". We have gotten Flash, Vigilance (which I understand are just new keywords for old abilities) as well as Fear and now Intimidate.
While I know we won't see Flashback or Madness as evergreen abilities . . . probably ever, it doesn't change the fact that a couple easier ones could rise to the surface.
Like Champion. Or Cycling or Echo. Or maybe dredge. Who knows?
Cycling and Kicker could probably make it in one day but I'd prefer they focus on less keywords and more resonant spells.
Trample wasn't block specific. It's been around since Alpha. Vigilance was keyworded in Kamigawa, but it was something that's been around since alpha. Same with Flash. Same with Haste. They may not have had keywords in Alpha, like Lure still isn't keyworded, but they've been around since the beginning. The only truly new one is Intimidate, and that's an update to Fear, which has been around since when? You guessed it. Alpha.
So no. Not champion. Probably not cycling or echo, but those are a tad more reasonable. Definitely not dredge.
EDIT: My mistake, not flash. Flash was an idea played around with in 6th ed. Point is that there aren't a whole lot of keyworded abilities that have the honor of becoming evergreen abilities. The next ones up are cycling and kicker, if any.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
also return buyback that would be cool too
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seriously id like to see buyback or cycling. cycling as an evergreen mech would be so cool
Decks:
EDH: :symbw::symuw::symub:Merieke Ri Berit:symbw::symuw::symub:
Archenemy EDH: Reaper king
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Really? None, I'm happy with the amount of evergreen keywords for now.
Card types shouldnt be limited to just one block.
Would you guys like it if they stopped making Instants or Enchantments?
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
Yeah...Instants suck...
Seriously though, there was only one card ever with the card type "Mana Source" so it isn't unprecedented for them to not use certain card types again.
I'm also of the opinion that Tribal will be in Rise though...
Yes!!! Thank you!!! I'm tired of the typical 1,000+ poster being an old stick in the mud, glass half empty, realist at the website.
You have positive thinking. So many here like to be the rain on anothers parade just for arguement sake.
And you come in & restore my faith in the 1,000+ posters area.
Back on topic:
There is a lot of design space for every keyword out there. It's a matter of time before one becomes pseunominous w/ Magic to become core set applicable. Cycle & kicker, I think, have the best chance of making it. Just alone playing w/ power/toughness opens up a lot of design space; then the effect of the keyword magnifies it tremendoesly.
For example, look at double strike (which by the way, to all of you naysayers, began it's career as an expansion set keyword ). There can be a creature w/ double strike who's a 1/1, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 2/1, 2/2, 2/3, 2/5, 3/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, etc... get my drift?
What I would like to see go evergreen would be:
Split Second, fateseal, absorb, whither, and flash.
And the many words of "cannot be blocked by flying creatures or creatures with reach" for ground pounders, think Silhana Ledgewalker (which, btw, off-topic, would be an awesome addition to M11 this summer )
All of the wordiness of the Ledgewalker can be reduced to two words (w/ reminder text [only for 1st reprinting, most likely]).
Oh, and there is something else besides Samurai that can get this ability: Toads.
Flanking
Provoke
Renamed Bushido, call it Prowess
Frenzy
In my homemade set I brought all those back, plus I keyworded "can't be blocked exept by x or more creatures" as Overwhelm X and the Gustcloak ability as Feint.
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Bane's Reading Suggestions
David Eddings: The Belgariad, Mallorean, Elenium and Tamuli Series. The Redemption of Althalus
Jim Butcher: The Codex Alera Series
For two excellent reasons:
Cycling is much too similar to many other mechanics like cantrips, kicker, channel, etc. so having it be evergreen leads to awkward situations where those mechanics might co-exist with cycling. It's much better to keep it as a block mechanic and just bring it back every time they want to use it again.
Personally I think (with the exception of not having a keyword-variant of shroud for the troll ability) the evergreen set we have now is basically perfect. Instead of expanding it they should just continue to be more aggressive in reusing old block mechanics when appropriate.
Tribal - We've had several cards like Crucible of Fire and Feast of Blood that should have been tribal if the type stayed around. What problems would it have caused to have it stick around
Champion - but not like it was before. It doesn't have to be a tribal mechanic: Champion a land, champion an artifact, champion an equipment, champion a white permanent, champion a dead creature?
Splice - but not with arcane. Splice onto instant, splice onto enchantment, splice onto goblin...
Flanking - I just like it.