I think the main reason why splice without arcane wouldn't be surprising is because of the hint MaRO gave. I think it would be pretty surprising if he hadn't say nothing about it.
My guess is %40 for lands, %40 for poison, %20 for auras.
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Spike plays ten games and wins nine of them. If Spike feels he should have won the tenth, he walks away unhappy. - MaRo
I dont know about spice onto arcane maybe splice somtin else. i would love affinity to come back :rolleyes:. Graft would also be cool.
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Good point...although as that was to deliberately reference old mechanics (instead of dropping hints about future ones, such as morph/noncreature) I still think it's viable.
"Hellbent" on vast swathes of cards without the Rakdos guild (for example) is more surprising than morph on noncreatures, because we've been primed to expect morph on noncreatures due to the futureshifted cards in FS.
However, we've already seen plenty of examples of cards with the Hellbent ability outside of the Rakdos guild. I play two of them in my red-black madness deck.
As we all know, TSP showed mechanics that they haven't used in a long time, some they had just finished using, and some that haven't been used yet, which can lead us to believe that any of the mechanics found in that block will be popping up as we move away from it. I personally would love to see Suspend return. I just don't see any of those particular mechanics returning in Zendikar, mostly because Maro said it's something that hasn't been done yet, or I suppose something that hasn't been done this way. Not to mention that the keywords for Zendikar are most likely completely new.
morph will not be back for a very long time. I can see Affinity come back as "Affinity for islands/swamps/plains/forest/mountain" again. i liked the flavor of affinity of a basic land type and if Zendikar is "back to basics" it would fit snuggly. Affinity without Artifacts anyone?
morph will not be back for a very long time. I can see Affinity come back as "Affinity for islands/swamps/plains/forest/mountain" again. i liked the flavor of affinity of a basic land type and if Zendikar is "back to basics" it would fit snuggly. Affinity without Artifacts anyone?
Only, like morph without creatures and fear without black, it'sbeendonebefore. Additionally, like splice without arcane, it's just so natural that no one would be surprised.
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Despite my name, I do not play casual magic. Just thought that would be good to tell people.
Only, like morph without creatures and fear without black, it'sbeendonebefore. Additionally, like splice without arcane, it's just so natural that no one would be surprised.
There's a difference between surprising and unexpected. We're in store for something that's unexpected, but not necessarily all that surprising.
The Ravnica Block keyword i think has the most potenial to get printed again was Forecast. I love the keyword and think it could have ALOT more uses.
The problem with Forecast is that, like buyback, it can easily create repetitive game states. The only way to get around that is to put it on situational/low powered cards.
There's a difference between surprising and unexpected. We're in store for something that's unexpected, but not necessarily all that surprising.
Actually, maro said that if someone told you that _______ is coming back without _______, you wouldn't believe them. When you hear or see something unbelievable, you're surprised. So yes, we're expecting something surprising. And besides, every example of ________ without ________ I've refuted is completely and totally expected at some point, due to being talked about or already printed.
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Despite my name, I do not play casual magic. Just thought that would be good to tell people.
things i wouldn't believe you were telling the truth if you told me
ninjutsu without ninjas
Persist without -1/-1 counters
sunburst without artifacts
amplify on non creatures
entwine without a choice (not sure how this would work)
affinity on non artifact creatures
madness without having to discard
modular without +1/+1 counters (oo, thats intriguing)
Ambush (Pay X, Return a blocking creature you control to its owners hand: Put this card into play blocking in that creature's place.)
It fits with the theme of searching for lost treasure (Zendikar) and getting ambushed by ancient guardians. It also works now that damage does not use the stack. Ironicly, it is also Ninjitsu without Attackers.
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Actually, maro said that if someone told you that _______ is coming back without _______, you wouldn't believe them. When you hear or see something unbelievable, you're surprised. So yes, we're expecting something surprising. And besides, every example of ________ without ________ I've refuted is completely and totally expected at some point, due to being talked about or already printed.
He said, and I quote
"I don't think anyone would have expected CENSORED (really, if someone told you we'd have [CENSORED] without [CENSORED] , would you have believed them?)."
That doesn't make it a surprise. It makes it unexpected, and something you'd doubt without hard evidence, but not necessarily surprising.
Likewise you could say to someone that never read the sixth Harry Potter book or saw the movie that
Dumbledore dies
. It's unexpected. It's not something that you'd believe without checking it. But with some of the more recent events, and the events leading up to that, it's not all that surprising. Shocking, mortifying, sure, but not surprising (and before you argue that shocking and surprising are the same thing, surprising is something that you had no idea was going to happen, whereas shocking is something you see coming, but can't believe it when it arrives).
You're just arguing logistics now, and it's honestly making you look a little foolish (no offense intended in that sentence). The point is, in the one post where I said surprising, it's not just in reference to unsurprising things, but expected things as well. Yes there's a difference between the two, but everything I've said is unsurprising is also expected. And also, Splice without Arcane is very expected. Especially since maro has lamented the fact that the two are connected so deeply.
@netopalis
Ninjutsu: ZOMG they changed flavor!!!!111!!! Expected.
Persist/Modular/Madness: That means functionally changing the ability. They dislike doing that to individual cards. When they do it to an ability that works as is, I'll eat a hat.
Sunburst/Amplify/Affinity: Very natural extension. Expected.
Entwine: As you said, how would it work?
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Despite my name, I do not play casual magic. Just thought that would be good to tell people.
Trancebam, i do not how the distinction your making really changes the conversation. It is possible to be unexpected and surprising at the same time, hybrid as a block was unexpected before we found anything out about shadowmoor and i think many people were surprised.
This should be focusing on what possible themes could come up given the two bits of information we have: there is something being brought back that is unexpected and a major flavor of danger and treasure. a list of mechanics is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Magic:_The_Gathering_keywords
this is a finite list guys. i agree splice without arcane is good but i do not believe that its unexpected at this point. what mechanics could fit with the treasure sub theme? I think evergreen mechanics, morph, and cycling are the ones that we can certainly eliminate. There is nothing really unexpected you can do to these mechanics.
@casual thor
I'm not a developer, and i was looking at the list i posted above when i came up with those while i was in class. I would agree that they do not generally change the functionality of an ability often, but they have done it in the past, particularly with echo and threhold, and i would argue that those were abilities that with proper eratta without changing legitimate functionality of past cards while opening design space. A functional change to modular that would change from +1/+1 counters to charge counters or counters at all could work, as would persist.
i agree that my considerations of madness and entwine may be ridiculous, but hey, we're looking for unexpected.
and i particularly think that both ninjutsu and bushido are keyword abilities that are intrinsically tied to flavor, doing them on non-flavor specific cards would be much more unexpected than others.
The only problem with keywords tied to flavor thing is that a good deal of players really won't care, and most that do care would be bothered by the keywords lacking it's flavor. There have been articles complaining that ninjutsu and bushido were badly named and probably won't be brought back because, even if they did bring it back, the flavor would be off, and wizards avoids that. And the problem with persist and modular back without the kinds of counters they currently use is that it would require changing them from keywords to ability words, removing the option to print it without reminder text. There's no way for a keyword to referance counters and have them change from card to card. Which sucks, as it's kinda cool with persist (it changes the flavor of modular, creatures building on each other).
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Despite my name, I do not play casual magic. Just thought that would be good to tell people.
I don't think we should put all that much stock in MaRo's statement. It's marketing, constructed to generate hype about Zendikar, so of course he's going to say we wouldn't believe ____ without ____. There might be some people for which this is true, that subset of people that expect returning mechanics to be exactly the same as they were the first time and with all the same environmental factors as were present originally, but I take it with a grain of salt.
Looking at any of the previous block mechanics and themes, would you really be surprised at all to see something without something else? Or would it be a natural extension, something you would expect (such as splice without arcane if it were to return)? I honestly can't think of anything that I would truly consider surprising, but I've gotten pretty cynical.
Perhaps something that lacks overall symmetry or synergy, but that doesn't sound like a good thing really. What I take it to mean is, they're taking something that they did before with some kind of twist to make it different, lacking some other element that was present when it first showed up.
New Cryptic command
1UU
Instant
Choose one - Counter target spell; or return target permanent to its owner's hand; or tap all creatures your opponents control; or draw a card.
New entwine 1U - Choose an additional ability (You may pay the new entwine cost for each extra ability)
I know the wording it's a little bit akward but I hope you got the idea.
level up is absolute garbage. yes somebody feel free to quote me on this in their sig. NONE OF THE LEVEL UP CARDS SHOWN TODAY WILL SEE COMPETITIVE PLAY OUTSIDE OF LIKE ROE ONLY CONSTRUCTED OR SOME GARBAGE.
New Cryptic command
1UU
Instant
Choose one - Counter target spell; or return target permanent to its owner's hand; or tap all creatures your opponents control; or draw a card.
New entwine 1U - Choose an additional ability (You may pay the new entwine cost for each extra ability)
I know the wording it's a little bit akward but I hope you got the idea.
See the issue is, it costs 5 to do 2 of them. Who wants to pay five for that? I'd say make the New Entwine U
I think the main reason why splice without arcane wouldn't be surprising is because of the hint MaRO gave. I think it would be pretty surprising if he hadn't say nothing about it.
My guess is %40 for lands, %40 for poison, %20 for auras.
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Ninjutsu is another ability that'd like to see again, not explored enough, just a few cards print.
However, we've already seen plenty of examples of cards with the Hellbent ability outside of the Rakdos guild. I play two of them in my red-black madness deck.
As we all know, TSP showed mechanics that they haven't used in a long time, some they had just finished using, and some that haven't been used yet, which can lead us to believe that any of the mechanics found in that block will be popping up as we move away from it. I personally would love to see Suspend return. I just don't see any of those particular mechanics returning in Zendikar, mostly because Maro said it's something that hasn't been done yet, or I suppose something that hasn't been done this way. Not to mention that the keywords for Zendikar are most likely completely new.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
Only, like morph without creatures and fear without black, it's been done before. Additionally, like splice without arcane, it's just so natural that no one would be surprised.
There's a difference between surprising and unexpected. We're in store for something that's unexpected, but not necessarily all that surprising.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
The problem with Forecast is that, like buyback, it can easily create repetitive game states. The only way to get around that is to put it on situational/low powered cards.
Actually, maro said that if someone told you that _______ is coming back without _______, you wouldn't believe them. When you hear or see something unbelievable, you're surprised. So yes, we're expecting something surprising. And besides, every example of ________ without ________ I've refuted is completely and totally expected at some point, due to being talked about or already printed.
*cough*Yu-Gi-Oh*cough*
Quotes in blog.
ninjutsu without ninjas
Persist without -1/-1 counters
sunburst without artifacts
amplify on non creatures
entwine without a choice (not sure how this would work)
affinity on non artifact creatures
madness without having to discard
modular without +1/+1 counters (oo, thats intriguing)
thats all i got
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www.skidmarkpoetry.blogspot.com
Ambush (Pay X, Return a blocking creature you control to its owners hand: Put this card into play blocking in that creature's place.)
It fits with the theme of searching for lost treasure (Zendikar) and getting ambushed by ancient guardians. It also works now that damage does not use the stack. Ironicly, it is also Ninjitsu without Attackers.
Imprint (Without artifacts)
Entwine (With multiple choices)
Ninjutsu (I want ninjas back)
the thing maro said the
____ with out ____
splice with out arcane
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He said, and I quote
That doesn't make it a surprise. It makes it unexpected, and something you'd doubt without hard evidence, but not necessarily surprising.
Likewise you could say to someone that never read the sixth Harry Potter book or saw the movie that
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
@netopalis
Ninjutsu: ZOMG they changed flavor!!!!111!!! Expected.
Persist/Modular/Madness: That means functionally changing the ability. They dislike doing that to individual cards. When they do it to an ability that works as is, I'll eat a hat.
Sunburst/Amplify/Affinity: Very natural extension. Expected.
Entwine: As you said, how would it work?
This should be focusing on what possible themes could come up given the two bits of information we have: there is something being brought back that is unexpected and a major flavor of danger and treasure. a list of mechanics is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Magic:_The_Gathering_keywords
this is a finite list guys. i agree splice without arcane is good but i do not believe that its unexpected at this point. what mechanics could fit with the treasure sub theme? I think evergreen mechanics, morph, and cycling are the ones that we can certainly eliminate. There is nothing really unexpected you can do to these mechanics.
@casual thor
I'm not a developer, and i was looking at the list i posted above when i came up with those while i was in class. I would agree that they do not generally change the functionality of an ability often, but they have done it in the past, particularly with echo and threhold, and i would argue that those were abilities that with proper eratta without changing legitimate functionality of past cards while opening design space. A functional change to modular that would change from +1/+1 counters to charge counters or counters at all could work, as would persist.
i agree that my considerations of madness and entwine may be ridiculous, but hey, we're looking for unexpected.
and i particularly think that both ninjutsu and bushido are keyword abilities that are intrinsically tied to flavor, doing them on non-flavor specific cards would be much more unexpected than others.
www.bucultureshock.com
www.skidmarkpoetry.blogspot.com
Looking at any of the previous block mechanics and themes, would you really be surprised at all to see something without something else? Or would it be a natural extension, something you would expect (such as splice without arcane if it were to return)? I honestly can't think of anything that I would truly consider surprising, but I've gotten pretty cynical.
Perhaps something that lacks overall symmetry or synergy, but that doesn't sound like a good thing really. What I take it to mean is, they're taking something that they did before with some kind of twist to make it different, lacking some other element that was present when it first showed up.
OMG, what a good idea.
(Designing custom set now.)
--
Winner of the 2nd Design Survivor Contest
Creator of the Vorthos Card Contest
Winner of 12th and the 18th Short Story Contests
Creator of the Vs. Tournament.
--Runner of the Superhero Vs. Tounrament
--Runner of the Villian Vs. Tournament.
It coul be something like this:
New Cryptic command
1UU
Instant
Choose one - Counter target spell; or return target permanent to its owner's hand; or tap all creatures your opponents control; or draw a card.
New entwine 1U - Choose an additional ability (You may pay the new entwine cost for each extra ability)
I know the wording it's a little bit akward but I hope you got the idea.
BUWRG--->> Here to view my stuff <<---GRWUB
See the issue is, it costs 5 to do 2 of them. Who wants to pay five for that? I'd say make the New Entwine U