hello all, i supose i dont post as often as i used to, but i've been playing for a long time and ive noticed someting since about recent blocks often a block story line comes in three parts
set 1: estabilishing enviroment (world in peril) in the first set we are introduced to the plane the block is centered around and the problem that the story line focuses on
set 2: conflict: in this set the problem is the main fosus the story continues while the plain contiues to move toward...
set 3: resolution (changed world): in the third set the problem is sesolved and the set focusses on how the world has changed (fith dawn being the best example of this)
so, what does all this have to do with the title of the thread, well, i was thinking that mechanically such a story could be told through mana givin the info we have.
set 1: (shattered plane) it has been established that long ago, the plane of alara was shattered into 5 parts many have therorized that this indicates a mono-colored set and i agree with them
set 2: conflict: there is a move towards reuniting the planes and this move creates a blurring of the fabric of the planes, this could be represented through hybrid mana
set 3:resolution: the plane has be restored to in full and all 5 parts and working together and so the sets magior theme is multi color
so in short set 1: monocolor, set 2: hybrid: set 3: multi
i hope that there isnt already a thread like this and im not reposting, but if not a think its a fun litle bit of speculation, this would also help explane why the sets have similler amounts of cards
That would be an awesome idea for a block. However I don't know if they would structure a set like that so soon after having a multicolor(Ravnica) and hybrid(Shadowmoor) blocks just a year or two apart, but if it does work out like that i will give you mucho props
If I understand this correctly you're NOT proposing that Shards of Alara may be the 'resolution' set to the Lorwyn/Shadowmoor blocks, but rather that the 3 part block for Shards of Alara is going to fit the 'shattered plane:conflict:resolution' model? Its an interesting idea, but their consistent use of that model isn't necessarily very... indicative. Most good storytelling is structured along those lines. That aside, I'd like to say its too soon to bring back hybrid/gold, but it hasn't been that long since Ravnica was in STD either, and Shadowmoor just gave us hybrid again, so your, "1: monocolor, set 2: hybrid: set 3: multi", idea isn't too crazy I suppose.
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hello all, i supose i dont post as often as i used to, but i've been playing for a long time and ive noticed someting since about recent blocks often a block story line comes in three parts
set 1: estabilishing enviroment (world in peril) in the first set we are introduced to the plane the block is centered around and the problem that the story line focuses on
set 2: conflict: in this set the problem is the main fosus the story continues while the plain contiues to move toward...
set 3: resolution (changed world): in the third set the problem is sesolved and the set focusses on how the world has changed (fith dawn being the best example of this)
so, what does all this have to do with the title of the thread, well, i was thinking that mechanically such a story could be told through mana givin the info we have.
set 1: (shattered plane) it has been established that long ago, the plane of alara was shattered into 5 parts many have therorized that this indicates a mono-colored set and i agree with them
set 2: conflict: there is a move towards reuniting the planes and this move creates a blurring of the fabric of the planes, this could be represented through hybrid mana
set 3:resolution: the plane has be restored to in full and all 5 parts and working together and so the sets magior theme is multi color
so in short set 1: monocolor, set 2: hybrid: set 3: multi
i hope that there isnt already a thread like this and im not reposting, but if not a think its a fun litle bit of speculation, this would also help explane why the sets have similler amounts of cards
So you're claiming that right after a colour-matters block, we're going to have another colour-matters block? Consecutive blocks should not share the same over-arching theme. That kind of inundation is neither necessary to entice players nor is it good for exercising designers creative talents. A little variety is a good thing.
Also, how exactly does this explain the similar numbers of cards in each block? I can't think of another reaosn why ALA might've been designed in this way, but I'm hesitant to accept your notion with such little argument to support it.
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Gaymer
Custom Card / Set Reviewer
When reviewing custom cards / sets, I look for (a) flavour, (b) function, and (c) cohesiveness, generally through a risk focus.
So you're claiming that right after a colour-matters block, we're going to have another colour-matters block? Consecutive blocks should not share the same over-arching theme. That kind of inundation is neither necessary to entice players nor is it good for exercising designers creative talents. A little variety is a good thing.
Also, how exactly does this explain the similar numbers of cards in each block? I can't think of another reaosn why ALA might've been designed in this way, but I'm hesitant to accept your notion with such little argument to support it.
the fact that it is five seperate planes has lead many to believe that this is a color matters block, i don't understand why everyone acts like its the first time they heard that bit of speculation, i mearly built upon it
Except... they tend not to do an X matters block right after X matters block, where X is the same for both blocks.
but the main speculation on the set is that it is the mono color set, so this speculation is based on that speculation and a mono color based set and that would certainly be a color based theme
To be entirely honest I'm already getting a mind-meld from all the Hybrid going on. After eventide I won't want to much hybrid for a while. I wouldn't mind it becoming an evergreen mechanic, but I'd be upset to see it be the focus of a set so very soon after Shadowmoor.
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Not sure they'd do it, but it did hit me the other day that mono-hybrid can also enable monocolor limited decks (much like artifacts)
Another way of looking at the "5 planes" thing is they may invent some new keyword mechanics, and then strictly hold them to one color each, to give each color it's own unique flavor. That doesn't hem you into monocolor, although if the keywords have high synergy with itself and/or other cards of its own color, it might encourage it in constructed. This is different from most recent sets with whither, evoke, suspend etc. going everywhere, and more of a throwback to Ravnica.
I'm not so sure how they'd justify the flavour of hybrid and multicolour in a 5 distinct plane set.
the flavour is explained in my original post if youd bother to read it
also i know 5 seperate planes does not nessisarilly mean one for each color, but thats the best therory available now, if you can sugest a better one, then start a new thread, thats not what this one is about
I think Shadowmoor is going to take the role as the only mana-colour block for the next few years.
Personally, I think that the "world" of Alara will consist of five small planes each with distinct flavour. Which isn't very different than what we generally see now like the differences between the green forest cultures in Kamigawa compared to the samurai castles and cities of white in Kamigawa. Of course there will be some unifying flavour element, probably that filaments that affects mages, or something like that, but the five planes could look very different from each other.
They may want to extend this separation further by giving the five colours different mechanical effects, like how the guilds in Ravnica played very different from each other. This may encourage players to play a mono-colour deck, which will be helped by the hybrid cards from Shadowmoor, but I doubt the colour mechanics will be extremely linear (like Lorwyn's tribal mechanics was).
However, this doesn't get into what the theme of Shards of Alara will be, just how that theme may be implemented. I'm pretty sure the theme won't be mana-cost matters or mono-colour or multi-colour, but the theme could be the long awaited enchantment block, but it could be something completely different. I mean, no one really predicted that Shadowmoor would have a hybrid theme, so it won't always be obvious.
While you block idea sounds good and interesting, it is just very similar to shadowmoor. (Maybe far away in the future they will do this, pure monocolor, pure hybrid, the pure multicolor. Color matters theme again. But not now.
As an alternative, Alara could be a Flavor-based block. The mechanics could be less linear and much more in flavor. Note that WOTC maybe alternating between flavor based block and mechanic based block to make inter block synergy easier. (Mirrodin, Rav, Lor are mechanic based) Kamigawa and TS are flavor based.
I'd like to see the block revolving around the 5 different shards as totally different worlds. The shards would have natural rivals/enemies,
-White vs. black
-green vs. blue
-red as the natural hate all.
Each color would have a few cards built specifically against the main rival color.
Well you remember how they said they were going to start pushing for white as a bigger color? What I've heard is that they'll have two colors,like you said, but only so they can focus on those colors, I haven't heard anything about them making those colors have a specific connection. Anyway my point is that they'd save the last set for white so they can contribute an entire set to help white become more of a contender.
Well you remember how they said they were going to start pushing for white as a bigger color? What I've heard is that they'll have two colors,like you said, but only so they can focus on those colors, I haven't heard anything about them making those colors have a specific connection. Anyway my point is that they'd save the last set for white so they can contribute an entire set to help white become more of a contender.
I personally don't think they would do that because they tried that once with black in Torment and it "didn't work out so well" (personally as a black mage i loved it) but I am not going to say that they would never do it because it is WOTC after all and they do strange things all the time.
While you block idea sounds good and interesting, it is just very similar to shadowmoor. (Maybe far away in the future they will do this, pure monocolor, pure hybrid, the pure multicolor. Color matters theme again. But not now.
As an alternative, Alara could be a Flavor-based block. The mechanics could be less linear and much more in flavor. Note that WOTC maybe alternating between flavor based block and mechanic based block to make inter block synergy easier. (Mirrodin, Rav, Lor are mechanic based) Kamigawa and TS are flavor based.
This worries me, because the last two flavor blocks were somewhat duds to me, personally, and most of the people in the FNMs I play in around town seem to agree. Heck, tons of them took a "break" from magic when Kamigawa came around because is was just...meh.
Hopefully, if they do decide on a flavor heavy block here with Alara, they make it interesting and fun to play, unlike Kamigawa.
Everyone including wizards agrees that Kamigawa is a bad set, that isn't what "flavor-based" is supposed to mean. However lacking Time Spiral might be, it's nowhere near the same league, and just mentioning Kami isn't enough to condemn it.
Kami isn't even a "modern block" so technically it doesn't have to fit any pattern at all. I'm not personally convinced on the "flavor-based" alternating theory, Time Spiral just had to be this because it was a mish-mosh of nostalgic mechanics to recapture old players.
It would be better to describe TS as extremely modular, because it was. In a highly modular set, you don't need one overarching mechanic reinforcing itself constantly. Calling Ravnica a "multicolor theme" is even questionable, because there were only a handful of "multicolor matters" cards (cards triggering off of X color, cards triggering off spells with more than 1 color, etc.) The most consistent mechanic you had across the colors was simply mana fixing, otherwise each color combo had it's own mechanics.
It isn't like Kamigawa is years old, it was just in STD what, Twoish years ago? Time Spiral is still in STD, and will leave with with Alara. What I am saying is: are we going to have one interesting, full of life block constantly coupled with a lacking, unfinished block like we have had since Mirrodin-Kawigawa?
To take a look back:
Mirrodin - Kamigawa
Kamigawa - Rav
Rav - Time Spiral
Time Spiral - Lor/Sha
I know Mirrodin is questionable about being a fun and solid block, but was it really Mirrodin-Onslaught since we have had double block fun?
I know Mirrodin is questionable about being a fun and solid block, but was it really Mirrodin-Onslaught since we have had double block fun?
I really enjoyed Rav-TSP. The cards meshed together very well IMO and I'd also have to say the artwork from each block jived together well. TSP-LorSha hasn't been nearly as interesting IMO.
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While this theoretically could happen, it's definitely not concrete. Ravnica did not really follow this formula at all, and spent three sets developing one world without that world changing a whole lot.
Rather than hybrid mana in the middle set, if this did happen, I'd put money on off-color activation costs and cards that care about friendly colors in play, like the "Duos" from Shadowmoor, for the middle set. That way we get a break from hybrid and still accomplish the same thing, or nearly. The last set can be gold. However, as has been stated, having a "monocolor matters" first set and a "gold" final set just plays havoc on any kind of inter-set drafting strategy.
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set 1: estabilishing enviroment (world in peril) in the first set we are introduced to the plane the block is centered around and the problem that the story line focuses on
set 2: conflict: in this set the problem is the main fosus the story continues while the plain contiues to move toward...
set 3: resolution (changed world): in the third set the problem is sesolved and the set focusses on how the world has changed (fith dawn being the best example of this)
so, what does all this have to do with the title of the thread, well, i was thinking that mechanically such a story could be told through mana givin the info we have.
set 1: (shattered plane) it has been established that long ago, the plane of alara was shattered into 5 parts many have therorized that this indicates a mono-colored set and i agree with them
set 2: conflict: there is a move towards reuniting the planes and this move creates a blurring of the fabric of the planes, this could be represented through hybrid mana
set 3:resolution: the plane has be restored to in full and all 5 parts and working together and so the sets magior theme is multi color
so in short set 1: monocolor, set 2: hybrid: set 3: multi
i hope that there isnt already a thread like this and im not reposting, but if not a think its a fun litle bit of speculation, this would also help explane why the sets have similler amounts of cards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpgjnU7C3Aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7kkZixasc
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
Multi-COLOR, Time, Tribal/COLOR, COLOR.
If you are correct then I tip my hat to you and wag my finger at WotC for losing creativity with their themes.
"Dark Ritual, Hypnotic Specter, Hymn to Tourach. If there is an unholy trio in Magic, this is it. These three cards have been wreaking havoc and crushing dreams for over a decade. They're like the New York Yankees, except powered by black magic. Oh, wait... never mind."
Chris Millar
House of Cards
So you're claiming that right after a colour-matters block, we're going to have another colour-matters block? Consecutive blocks should not share the same over-arching theme. That kind of inundation is neither necessary to entice players nor is it good for exercising designers creative talents. A little variety is a good thing.
Also, how exactly does this explain the similar numbers of cards in each block? I can't think of another reaosn why ALA might've been designed in this way, but I'm hesitant to accept your notion with such little argument to support it.
Custom Card / Set Reviewer
When reviewing custom cards / sets, I look for (a) flavour, (b) function, and (c) cohesiveness, generally through a risk focus.
the fact that it is five seperate planes has lead many to believe that this is a color matters block, i don't understand why everyone acts like its the first time they heard that bit of speculation, i mearly built upon it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpgjnU7C3Aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7kkZixasc
but the main speculation on the set is that it is the mono color set, so this speculation is based on that speculation and a mono color based set and that would certainly be a color based theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpgjnU7C3Aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7kkZixasc
To be entirely honest I'm already getting a mind-meld from all the Hybrid going on. After eventide I won't want to much hybrid for a while. I wouldn't mind it becoming an evergreen mechanic, but I'd be upset to see it be the focus of a set so very soon after Shadowmoor.
Drop by my Helpdesk if you have any questions/concerns on the Limited forum.
Excited for M13 Limited? What do you think the format will look like? Head over to the limited forum and let us know what you think.
Another way of looking at the "5 planes" thing is they may invent some new keyword mechanics, and then strictly hold them to one color each, to give each color it's own unique flavor. That doesn't hem you into monocolor, although if the keywords have high synergy with itself and/or other cards of its own color, it might encourage it in constructed. This is different from most recent sets with whither, evoke, suspend etc. going everywhere, and more of a throwback to Ravnica.
the flavour is explained in my original post if youd bother to read it
also i know 5 seperate planes does not nessisarilly mean one for each color, but thats the best therory available now, if you can sugest a better one, then start a new thread, thats not what this one is about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpgjnU7C3Aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7kkZixasc
Personally, I think that the "world" of Alara will consist of five small planes each with distinct flavour. Which isn't very different than what we generally see now like the differences between the green forest cultures in Kamigawa compared to the samurai castles and cities of white in Kamigawa. Of course there will be some unifying flavour element, probably that filaments that affects mages, or something like that, but the five planes could look very different from each other.
They may want to extend this separation further by giving the five colours different mechanical effects, like how the guilds in Ravnica played very different from each other. This may encourage players to play a mono-colour deck, which will be helped by the hybrid cards from Shadowmoor, but I doubt the colour mechanics will be extremely linear (like Lorwyn's tribal mechanics was).
However, this doesn't get into what the theme of Shards of Alara will be, just how that theme may be implemented. I'm pretty sure the theme won't be mana-cost matters or mono-colour or multi-colour, but the theme could be the long awaited enchantment block, but it could be something completely different. I mean, no one really predicted that Shadowmoor would have a hybrid theme, so it won't always be obvious.
As an alternative, Alara could be a Flavor-based block. The mechanics could be less linear and much more in flavor. Note that WOTC maybe alternating between flavor based block and mechanic based block to make inter block synergy easier. (Mirrodin, Rav, Lor are mechanic based) Kamigawa and TS are flavor based.
-White vs. black
-green vs. blue
-red as the natural hate all.
Each color would have a few cards built specifically against the main rival color.
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I personally don't think they would do that because they tried that once with black in Torment and it "didn't work out so well" (personally as a black mage i loved it) but I am not going to say that they would never do it because it is WOTC after all and they do strange things all the time.
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
This worries me, because the last two flavor blocks were somewhat duds to me, personally, and most of the people in the FNMs I play in around town seem to agree. Heck, tons of them took a "break" from magic when Kamigawa came around because is was just...meh.
Hopefully, if they do decide on a flavor heavy block here with Alara, they make it interesting and fun to play, unlike Kamigawa.
Kami isn't even a "modern block" so technically it doesn't have to fit any pattern at all. I'm not personally convinced on the "flavor-based" alternating theory, Time Spiral just had to be this because it was a mish-mosh of nostalgic mechanics to recapture old players.
It would be better to describe TS as extremely modular, because it was. In a highly modular set, you don't need one overarching mechanic reinforcing itself constantly. Calling Ravnica a "multicolor theme" is even questionable, because there were only a handful of "multicolor matters" cards (cards triggering off of X color, cards triggering off spells with more than 1 color, etc.) The most consistent mechanic you had across the colors was simply mana fixing, otherwise each color combo had it's own mechanics.
To take a look back:
Mirrodin - Kamigawa
Kamigawa - Rav
Rav - Time Spiral
Time Spiral - Lor/Sha
I know Mirrodin is questionable about being a fun and solid block, but was it really Mirrodin-Onslaught since we have had double block fun?
I really enjoyed Rav-TSP. The cards meshed together very well IMO and I'd also have to say the artwork from each block jived together well. TSP-LorSha hasn't been nearly as interesting IMO.
ET
Legacy - R Burn
Commander - GWU Rafiq of the Many
Modern - BGW Melira Pod (with borrowed fetchlands, but still)
Standard - R Blitz
Rather than hybrid mana in the middle set, if this did happen, I'd put money on off-color activation costs and cards that care about friendly colors in play, like the "Duos" from Shadowmoor, for the middle set. That way we get a break from hybrid and still accomplish the same thing, or nearly. The last set can be gold. However, as has been stated, having a "monocolor matters" first set and a "gold" final set just plays havoc on any kind of inter-set drafting strategy.