there are 180 cards in this set, we must be seeing some equiptments, because they seem to have disapeared, but after reading the first wizards report on the upcoming set, am i the only one amazed to be able to open 3 booster packs and see every card has a different keyword. i mean sure cards can have more than one but this is overkill as far as i can tell. any other ideas on this?
Yeah, overkill it is. I mean, after the TEN new keywords in Ravnica, plus the return of old keywords in TS and PC, more keywords in FS seems like a headache to me.
Well, I think there are six or eight known new keywords for old abilities (i.e. spirit link, web, etc), so it's not as much to keep track of as it seems like at first.
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extarbags is right, some of the abilities are just common abilities that finally got a needed keyword. However, this IS a preview set, and with that I think alot of abilities we're seeing are either leftovers Wizards wanted to use but didnt, or vague possibilities. A chance to give players a heads up for new sets, and to maybe influence their design.
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"The difference between MTG and science is that one has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while the other has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while playing cards."
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It looks like the keywords that aren't old abilities are going to be mostly tweaks of old abilites like Scry->Fateseal, Transmute->Transfiggure, Storm->Gravestorm, etc. I don't think it will be that much to wory about. Plus, there aren't 50 new keywords, just 50 in the set with many returning old keywords. I think it sounds like fun.
I wonder how much will have to be explained before pre-release events start. Between that and the prerelease card being a black card, I'm not too keen on going.
I wonder how much will have to be explained before pre-release events start. Between that and the prerelease card being a black card, I'm not too keen on going.
I think it's kinda funny actually, for all the effort that goes into this keywording, for how often a card with that ability shows up in a block, they're still going to be printing big ugly reminder text on most of the cards with new abilities.
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"The difference between MTG and science is that one has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while the other has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while playing cards."
My Decks: WAnglesW WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW WUGAllymillGUW
50 mechanics in one set? I'm so happy right now if it's all true, I'll settle for 49 keywords with banding with other, or Islandhome or heck even both. I'm just so happy, so, so happy, happy as a gamer could be.
yea...multi keywords is fun...
and FS gets us insane number of option what to do...
TS block twists MTG all around...cant wait to see the new MTG (lyowin and after)
I believe that there is such a thing as a 'saturation point' for keyworded / abilityworded mechanics, and FS might be hitting that saturation point and then exceeding it by a wide margin.
There are a number of reasons why you would want to keyword something:
1. It's going to be referenced by other cards. Such as how Earthbind references flying and Sailmonger grants it.
2. It cuts down on the amount of text needed to convey the mechanics. If there was no keyword for trample, for example, it would severly restrict the space to print other abilities on the card.
3. It's ubiquitous to the point that players refer to it by a nickname rather than by the actual wording of the mechanic. "Cantrip" would be a good candidate here.
However, I've got to side with the idea of just spelling the stupid mechanic out, from time to time. "When this creature deals damage, you gain that much life" is a great example of this - it's probably less of a burden to just write the thing out than it is to have to remember another keyword, plus the version in FS removes some of the mechanic's functionality. It is a great example of the kind of ability that shouldn't get a keyword.
So, while I think it's OK for one set to go overboard like this, I'm mostly worried because I'm afraid of what it will mean for future sets. I'd like my cards to actually have some rules text on them instead of always using keyword shorthand.
I want all of my cards to only be keywords. Hopefully one day Form of the Dragon will be templated to read:
Form of the Dragon4RRR
Enchantment
Damageshot 5
Lifeset 5
Playerflying
Rare
~
Best point ever!
Yeah... when some one asks me a rules question 9-10 i just say "just read the card," now i will have to hand them a key word booklet or something. I am not sure keywording EVERYTHING is a good idea, makes the game overly complected for new/bad memory players
I like the cards to say what they do, makes the game easier, most people at my store cannot remember that no matter how a flashbacked spell leaves the stack its RFG'ed.(so remanding a flashbacked spell is a GOOD idea) things like that, because its not written on the card(well it is but it makes it seem like its part of the spells effect so if its countered people think so is that effect). Harder to remember.
lol. nice form of the dragon errata.
yeah seriously im getting pissed of all the keywords on things that dont need to be keyworded. if there is a card that has so much text that everything needs to be keyworded it probably shouldn't be printed anyway. i'm sick of them keywording everything. i can't imagine how hard it would be for new players to dea with all this stuff.
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“Game over,” Lursen said. “Demon’s Horn.”
Demon’s Horn has a reputation in multiplayer games, Lursen said.“Usually if somebody in multiplayer plays a Demon’s Horn, we all just immediately attack that person, because he’s going to win,” Lursen said.
So, while I think it's OK for one set to go overboard like this, I'm mostly worried because I'm afraid of what it will mean for future sets. I'd like my cards to actually have some rules text on them instead of always using keyword shorthand.
This is actually one of the more brilliantly introspective aspects of this sets design. As Magic ages, the number of new (and realistic) possibilities for cards decreases. Wizards can counteract this by making cards more and more complex, but there is also the real, physical limitation of how much rules text they can fit into the text box. As you said with the cases of flying and trample, keywording reduces the amount of space it takes to convey a bit of rules text.
Wizards is inclined to increase the number of keywords in the same way it is inclined to use as many fabricated nouns in card names as possible...to ensure there is room for new Magic cards in the indefinite future.
And remember that the majority of the new keywords will never be seen again (or won't be seen for quite some time). Magic is fated (doomed?) to become more and more complex because of the need to constantly innovate and develop new cards. New keywords is an unavoidable fact of this. It is possible that the future viability of the game will rest on developers' ability to balance this drive with accesability: as Einstein said, "Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler."
What's interesting is that if players hate the many-keyword, they will not use them; it's like having thousand of playtesters. I like that actually, I always wanted my Mourning Thrull to have something like "Flying, Lifelink", but we'll see how it plays
And remember that the majority of the new keywords will never be seen again (or won't be seen for quite some time). Magic is fated (doomed?) to become more and more complex because of the need to constantly innovate and develop new cards. New keywords is an unavoidable fact of this. It is possible that the future viability of the game will rest on developers' ability to balance this drive with accesability: as Einstein said, "Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler."
exactly what i was thinking.
As for the set having so many keywords, stop speculating that TS is the template for how each other block is going to be like. this is a one time shot to show case the many, many, many possiblities of the future of magic.
Did vigilance needed to be keyworded? well i think it needed to be same thing with reach (web), maybe not so much lifelink but it does show up quite a bit when you think about it. the point is FS is just a test bed of new ideas, it doesn't mean all of them or even a third of them are going to stick or show up again.
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Wizards is inclined to increase the number of keywords in the same way it is inclined to use as many fabricated nouns in card names as possible...to ensure there is room for new Magic cards in the indefinite future.
No, I don't buy it.
WotC has lost sight of the depth that once existed for their mechanics, in favor of overproducing brand new stuff that is quite a bit more shallow than what we saw in the days of Magic past. There's already enough good stuff in the game of Magic that they could never print a single new keyword mechanic, and they could make 20 years of new sets with what's there already.
I'd say that the depth of mechanics really hit its high point with Odyssey block. Flashback was a really deep mechanic, and they explored it quite well. Threshold was a good sidekick, and helped generate a lot of tension that led to great cards.
I really don't know what happened. Mirrodin gave us the promise of imprint, and reniged on that promise pretty hardcore. Ever since then, it's been a mechanic overload with every new set. TS probably had the potentially deepest new mechanic since flashback (suspend), but rather than really get into it, they've saturated the block with all kinds of of other stuff. From a gameplay standpoint, they could have done a whole block with suspend and maybe one other mechanic.
I feel like WotC misses their diamonds in the rough: imprint, sunburst, ninjutsu and forecast all get minor treatments, when they have much more potential than skinny offerings like affinity and bushido, which get printed on tons of cards. I think WotC's focus on overproducing mechanics is a sign that at least some people at R&D are running out of ideas, and getting desperate (not that I feel that way about Magic as a whole).
I'm with Guesswork on this based off his first paragraph, if not the rest of what he said.
MTG is getting steadily less and less broad, not more and more. TS and Rav (to a lesser extent) were a welcome break from this, but I'm sure we'll be back to normal starting in Lorwyn.
But seriously, guess, you think Ninjitsu is deeper than Affinity? :/ Pass me some of that.
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Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
The way I see it, this is Future Sight's "gimmick" to set it apart from the rest of the block; the blocks always go 1) Set theme, 2) Emphasize theme, 3) Keep up theme but throw in a whole new thing to end it. Example:
Mirrodin Block: Artifacts
---Fifth Dawn: Artifacts that are hella cool when you play all 5 colors.
Kamigawa Block: Legends
---Saviors of Kamigawa: Still had legends but it introduced "Wisdom", and made things good if you had a lot of cards in hand.
Ravnica Block: Multicolored, namely color pairs
---Dissension: Mulitcolored counts (moreso than before, with cards like Psychotic Fury and Supply//Demand
So Time Spiral is: Nostalgia
---Future Sight: Nostalgia with Keywording a whole lot of abilities, both those we normally use (read: lifelink and reach) and making new ones to use, and as MaRo said, make Magic go meta.
WAnglesW
WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW
WUGAllymillGUW
GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
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I think it's kinda funny actually, for all the effort that goes into this keywording, for how often a card with that ability shows up in a block, they're still going to be printing big ugly reminder text on most of the cards with new abilities.
WAnglesW
WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW
WUGAllymillGUW
and FS gets us insane number of option what to do...
TS block twists MTG all around...cant wait to see the new MTG (lyowin and after)
There are a number of reasons why you would want to keyword something:
1. It's going to be referenced by other cards. Such as how Earthbind references flying and Sailmonger grants it.
2. It cuts down on the amount of text needed to convey the mechanics. If there was no keyword for trample, for example, it would severly restrict the space to print other abilities on the card.
3. It's ubiquitous to the point that players refer to it by a nickname rather than by the actual wording of the mechanic. "Cantrip" would be a good candidate here.
However, I've got to side with the idea of just spelling the stupid mechanic out, from time to time. "When this creature deals damage, you gain that much life" is a great example of this - it's probably less of a burden to just write the thing out than it is to have to remember another keyword, plus the version in FS removes some of the mechanic's functionality. It is a great example of the kind of ability that shouldn't get a keyword.
So, while I think it's OK for one set to go overboard like this, I'm mostly worried because I'm afraid of what it will mean for future sets. I'd like my cards to actually have some rules text on them instead of always using keyword shorthand.
I want all of my cards to only be keywords. Hopefully one day Form of the Dragon will be templated to read:
Form of the Dragon 4RRR
Enchantment
Damageshot 5
Lifeset 5
Playerflying
Rare
~
Yeah... when some one asks me a rules question 9-10 i just say "just read the card," now i will have to hand them a key word booklet or something. I am not sure keywording EVERYTHING is a good idea, makes the game overly complected for new/bad memory players
I like the cards to say what they do, makes the game easier, most people at my store cannot remember that no matter how a flashbacked spell leaves the stack its RFG'ed.(so remanding a flashbacked spell is a GOOD idea) things like that, because its not written on the card(well it is but it makes it seem like its part of the spells effect so if its countered people think so is that effect). Harder to remember.
yeah seriously im getting pissed of all the keywords on things that dont need to be keyworded. if there is a card that has so much text that everything needs to be keyworded it probably shouldn't be printed anyway. i'm sick of them keywording everything. i can't imagine how hard it would be for new players to dea with all this stuff.
_____________
“Game over,” Lursen said. “Demon’s Horn.”
Demon’s Horn has a reputation in multiplayer games, Lursen said.“Usually if somebody in multiplayer plays a Demon’s Horn, we all just immediately attack that person, because he’s going to win,” Lursen said.
This is actually one of the more brilliantly introspective aspects of this sets design. As Magic ages, the number of new (and realistic) possibilities for cards decreases. Wizards can counteract this by making cards more and more complex, but there is also the real, physical limitation of how much rules text they can fit into the text box. As you said with the cases of flying and trample, keywording reduces the amount of space it takes to convey a bit of rules text.
Wizards is inclined to increase the number of keywords in the same way it is inclined to use as many fabricated nouns in card names as possible...to ensure there is room for new Magic cards in the indefinite future.
And remember that the majority of the new keywords will never be seen again (or won't be seen for quite some time). Magic is fated (doomed?) to become more and more complex because of the need to constantly innovate and develop new cards. New keywords is an unavoidable fact of this. It is possible that the future viability of the game will rest on developers' ability to balance this drive with accesability: as Einstein said, "Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler."
exactly what i was thinking.
As for the set having so many keywords, stop speculating that TS is the template for how each other block is going to be like. this is a one time shot to show case the many, many, many possiblities of the future of magic.
Did vigilance needed to be keyworded? well i think it needed to be same thing with reach (web), maybe not so much lifelink but it does show up quite a bit when you think about it. the point is FS is just a test bed of new ideas, it doesn't mean all of them or even a third of them are going to stick or show up again.
Thanks for the Sig and Avatar Fogatog @EPIC GRAPHICS
WotC has lost sight of the depth that once existed for their mechanics, in favor of overproducing brand new stuff that is quite a bit more shallow than what we saw in the days of Magic past. There's already enough good stuff in the game of Magic that they could never print a single new keyword mechanic, and they could make 20 years of new sets with what's there already.
I'd say that the depth of mechanics really hit its high point with Odyssey block. Flashback was a really deep mechanic, and they explored it quite well. Threshold was a good sidekick, and helped generate a lot of tension that led to great cards.
I really don't know what happened. Mirrodin gave us the promise of imprint, and reniged on that promise pretty hardcore. Ever since then, it's been a mechanic overload with every new set. TS probably had the potentially deepest new mechanic since flashback (suspend), but rather than really get into it, they've saturated the block with all kinds of of other stuff. From a gameplay standpoint, they could have done a whole block with suspend and maybe one other mechanic.
I feel like WotC misses their diamonds in the rough: imprint, sunburst, ninjutsu and forecast all get minor treatments, when they have much more potential than skinny offerings like affinity and bushido, which get printed on tons of cards. I think WotC's focus on overproducing mechanics is a sign that at least some people at R&D are running out of ideas, and getting desperate (not that I feel that way about Magic as a whole).
MTG is getting steadily less and less broad, not more and more. TS and Rav (to a lesser extent) were a welcome break from this, but I'm sure we'll be back to normal starting in Lorwyn.
But seriously, guess, you think Ninjitsu is deeper than Affinity? :/ Pass me some of that.
Mirrodin Block: Artifacts
---Fifth Dawn: Artifacts that are hella cool when you play all 5 colors.
Kamigawa Block: Legends
---Saviors of Kamigawa: Still had legends but it introduced "Wisdom", and made things good if you had a lot of cards in hand.
Ravnica Block: Multicolored, namely color pairs
---Dissension: Mulitcolored counts (moreso than before, with cards like Psychotic Fury and Supply//Demand
So Time Spiral is: Nostalgia
---Future Sight: Nostalgia with Keywording a whole lot of abilities, both those we normally use (read: lifelink and reach) and making new ones to use, and as MaRo said, make Magic go meta.