Everyone is thinking that Future Sight will have the new color. I think this is not correct. I think the Lorwyn block (Peanut, Butter, Jelly) will introduce the new color. Not just 1 new color, but three. This is the "major" rule that gets broken that everyone is talking about.
Peanut = Brown
Butter = Yellow
Jelly = Purple
Problem solved in one fel swoop. Major rule, new color, names. All fits.
Edit: Please read my following posts for more explanation on what I mean by this. People have been quick to judge and are repeating the same disagreements. Lastly, if you don't think this is a good idea, explain why rather than insult. I'm getting sick of it.
Personally I doubt that they would make three new colors. Instead I think that they would add one new color, say purple(since it seems to be the most likely), and make it a block theme. This seems possible since:
1. They had the article all about purple to wet our pallet.
2. They said a major rule would get broken with it. Though some speculate the major rule might be the addition of a fourth expansion in the block.
The code names for blocks have nothing to do with their content. People were speculating that "Control" would be a counter-themed set and were equally wrong. Three new colors is a bit far-fetched.
I fully disagree that 3 new colors are far fetched. I think that adding one color would simply disrupt the existing balance of colors unnecessarily. If they added three new colors that all internally balance each other and that are SEPARATE in symmetry from the existing five, it could work out very nicely.
I have suggested these colors even before I knew the names of the set. If you think about it these are the few remaining colors that are distinct from the existing colors.
Yellow, Brown, Purple.
Orange 'could' be a color, but it doesn't feel as distinct as those three.
They might introduce purple into Future Sight, but this 'major rule' being broken just smacks of addition to the color pie.
Dismiss it if you want. Afterall it is pure speculation.
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I fully disagree that 3 new colors are far fetched. I think that adding one color would simply disrupt the existing balance of colors unnecessarily. If they added three new colors that all internally balance each other and that are SEPARATE in symmetry from the existing five, it could work out very nicely.
Like a tangent pie?
I can... sort of see it.
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honestly peopple. three new colors? dont you think thats a bit overkill? one major change, like one new color, is enough. the five colors are something that has been around since alpha and is the staple that the game is based around. adding a new color, either perminant or not, would make the ground a little shaky and fun. adding three new colors would remove the ground completly. how can you respect the very way the game is set up if we know that it canchange so drastically? some change is good, and im all for growth, but this is just rediculous
I mean we can imagine a plane where for any number of reasons a new type of magic is developed which uses a previously unused type of mana. In fact, thinking about it that way (purple) sounds cool.
But 3 new types of mana and colors that were never used? How different would these colors be? One would inevitably have burn and be compared with red. One would have good creatures and be compared to green (and white). And one would be overpowered and compared with blue So at that point you look back and wonder why you alienated your audience and endured tons of ridicule to basically redo the color pie in pretty much the same way.
Which is why 1 new color makes the most sense (especially if they can hit upon a good mechanical theme to link the color together). It should be powerful but unstable.
They couldn't possibly use brown as a sixth color, because the old prints of lands and artifacts have a brown background.
And that's the sort of reasoning WotC would use to rule it out, because people might be dumb enough to be confused by that.
Of course, it's irrelevant since three new colors will never happen, and if they add another color, it sure as hell won't be brown over purple (or perhaps orange or yellow).
this would be interesting, but technik makes a good point, one new color was hard enough to squeeze in to the pre-existing themes, and there's only so far you can stretch magic before it isn't magic anymore its like\
W: Lifegain, Weenies, Battle Tactics
U: Control, Control, and some big fatties
B: Kill, Control, Graveyard effects
R: Direct Damage, Gobbos, LD
G: Big Fatties, land effects, creature tokens
granted the colors spill a bit every now and then... but try adding three new colors
Y: Weenies, Direct Damage, and Bananas?
B: Control, Kill, and Big Fatties
P: Graveyard, RFG, Card drawing?
to me it looks more like you just tried to bake a smaller pie, and in the end, Yellow will be ruled out for looking to close to white, Orange for being to close to red, Teal to close to Blue, and Brown having already been a background...
nough is nough, no more three extra colors
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It seems as if people are more eager to throw stones, rather than to consider this possiblity. At any rate, consider this option explored.
I think an additional 'side pie' of colors is completely viable. These cards could behave in a different way, but still be playable with existing cards. Maybe they get mana differently, maybe they don't even use mana, whatever.
I personally see this the best way to add colors to magic. Just randomly sticking in a new color does not seem like WotC's style and breaks much of the symmetry of the game. WotC is all about symmetry. If they bring in another color, they will balance it somehow.
The article about purple was from an alternate 'past' perspective. I am talking about a present implementation (Lorwyn) of a new set of colors.
At any rate, to all of those who insulted rather than discusses, I hope you get an infraction or two.
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I think an additional 'side pie' of colors is completely viable. These cards could behave in a different way, but still be playable with existing cards. Maybe they get mana differently, maybe they don't even use mana, whatever.
This sentiment alone makes me sort of look forward to more colors. It would be creative, fun, new, and interesting while not throwing off the very groundwork of the game too much.
Well, if it is a side pie then they could just make it like snow and have qualities of cards and mana. So like you have 5 colors that all have snow, sky, city or something. That way you can have developed mountains with people living there vs. rough moutains inhabited by dragons, and each produce red, but one can be used to also pay for special abilities and such. I think that could be a very cool way of making a block with multiple "new colors" with out screwing everything up and pissing everyone off.
Edit - Example
Malitia 3W
Creature -- Human Soldier
Vigilance
~ gets a +1/+1 counters for each city mana used to pay for it.
2/4
Flavor-wise, the more cities you have to draw from, the more soldiers you get.
If they have two other mana types then you need to balance your deck to fit the types you want like playing multicolor with one color. So you may be playing white, but you are playing City/Sky White. It is mostly like snow, but I think there can be a lot of space to play with it. If this is how they do new colors, though, then it isn't in Peanut as whatever they are doing there hasn't been done, unless they do something new and mana qualities in the same block.
It seems as if people are more eager to throw stones, rather than to consider this possiblity.
I don't know if you fully understand peoples' objections.
I for one, don't consider a sixth color a possibility, I consider it an inevitability. It will happen.
But, you make two gaffes that are cringe-worthy:
A) You tie in the block's codenames to actual changes in cards or mechanics (in this case, tying the color of Magic cards to the color of sandwich condiments). People have done this in the past. They are never correct. The codenames really are just codenames. If you were right, you would be the first of many who have made such predictions to be correct. I see no reason why you are more likely to be correct than any of those people.
B) You don't acknowledge that people talk about the sixth color every single set. This has been going on since the game was released in 1993. The only reason why it is more likely to happen now than it was to happen then is because of the alternate reality theme. But, they chose not to take that opportunity.
First off to all those suggesting that these new colors will work like snow mana, I'm not suggesting this. These new cards could have complete separate colors and new ways to play them. That would be the beauty of adding a 'side pie'. The cards could even play different! For example: You can play 2 side pie lands per turn. Side pie spells have a special phase in each turn, etc.
I don't know if you fully understand peoples' objections.
I for one, don't consider a sixth color a possibility, I consider it an inevitability. It will happen.
But, you make two gaffes that are cringe-worthy:
A) You tie in the block's codenames to actual changes in cards or mechanics (in this case, tying the color of Magic cards to the color of sandwich condiments). People have done this in the past. They are never correct. The codenames really are just codenames. If you were right, you would be the first of many who have made such predictions to be correct. I see no reason why you are more likely to be correct than any of those people.
B) You don't acknowledge that people talk about the sixth color every single set. This has been going on since the game was released in 1993. The only reason why it is more likely to happen now than it was to happen then is because of the alternate reality theme. But, they chose not to take that opportunity.
I actually will argue that you don't know which posts I am talking about. Go back and take a look again. Several have no reason or justification, but are pure insults.
I do fully understand that 'code names' can just be code names. Yes I am fully aware that these names have never really given 'information' about the respective sets. This trend could change. That is all I am proposing.
I personally don't really care about what other people have talked about. It does not devalue any points I have here or justify insults. I am merely proposing that the introduction of new colors into Future Sight is not necessarily the only possiblity.
I have previously speculated about the introduction of a side pie and what colors they would be. I had already discussed brown, yellow, and purple. I found it interesting that these colors abstractly match the colors of Lorwyn.
This further peaked my interest as Lorwyn supposedly breaks a major 'rule'. Even the intent behind the word 'rule' has been called into question about exactly what was ment by it. I could easily see them meaning color additions.
Lets say they want to add a new color, we can all agree that throwing it directly into the existing pie will screw up a bunch of stuff. This is why I had proposed a side pie. To make a side pie meaningful it would have to have some sort of symmetry. The minimal symmetry is a two color symmetry. Purple and yellow being the most obvious. I think this doesn't offer as much variation as WotC would like, so I suggest that it is at least 3 colors (as they prefer odd number symmetry). It could be orange, purple, yellow, but I think brown is a more natural choice.
Again, this is pure speculation and I have stated that. I should not be weathering dismissive comments, even if this has been spoken about before, this is something people disagree with or would hate to see, or even if it has no existing examples. My point of bringing this to a thread was to see if people could see a 'side pie' actually working in their minds eye.
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Adding three new colors would not be good because it would offset the balance of the set and none of the colors would be viable except possibly in a draft with three of the same pack. I could definitely see them doing purple as a constant theme in Lorwyn and having the City land being prepreinted in Future Sight.
Adding three new colors would not be good because it would offset the balance of the set and none of the colors would be viable except possibly in a draft with three of the same pack. I could definitely see them doing purple as a constant theme in Lorwyn and having the City land being prepreinted in Future Sight.
Offseting the balance? How so?
Because it would steal traits from other colors? If sufficient effort was put into it these colors could not dip into any of the existing color pie traits. That is why it is a 'side pie'.
Offset because it would alter the existing color balance? Again, since it would be a side pie it wouldn't alter the existing balance of the normal colors.
As for drafting, these extra colors might be viable even if drafted outside of a Lorwyn block draft. It all depends on how they function mechanically in the game. Who knows, maybe you can cast purple spells by tapping enchantments? Maybe purple doesn't even have mana the normal way you and I think of mana. Maybe it uses something else.
Granted this would be a HUGE change for the game, but I could see a 3 color side pie being added that plays completely differently from the normal 5 colors. It would be interesting to see the interplay between these new colors and the old 5 and how you could build hybrid decks that used the mechanics of purple to drive green, etc....
However, I do fully agree with you that we might see the hints of the new color in Future Sight, but I don't think it will be what everyone thinks.
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First off to all those suggesting that these new colors will work like snow mana, I'm not suggesting this. These new cards could have complete separate colors and new ways to play them. That would be the beauty of adding a 'side pie'. The cards could even play different! For example: You can play 2 side pie lands per turn. Side pie spells have a special phase in each turn, etc.
Elsewhere, I listed this set of qualities we normally attribute to "colors" in Magic:
- an element of an object's "color" characteristic (Transguild Courier is all of them)
- a type of mana
- one or more components of mana costs that can be paid with a limited set of mana types including at least that type of mana
- a philosophy and a set of mechanics whose inclusion on a card or ability tends to require that type of mana in the cost
- a basic land (with a matching type) that produces that type of mana
- a position in the color pie, including the color's relationships to other colors
- to a small degree, an associated card type (used, for example, in the Gravegdigger cycle)
Maybe it would help if you more fully describe which of these attributes your colors might or might not have, and what additional characteristics they might have to differentiate them from the "regular" five.
I do fully understand that 'code names' can just be code names. Yes I am fully aware that these names have never really given 'information' about the respective sets. This trend could change. That is all I am proposing.
I think you'd be better off just saying that those colors are examples, and not really a large part of what you're trying to argue. You're trying to argue that the idea of three disjoint colors might be viable.
Which colors those would be, or in what sets, or why you think so: these arguments are all secondary to your main one.
This further peaked my interest as Lorwyn supposedly breaks a major 'rule'. Even the intent behind the word 'rule' has been called into question about exactly what was ment by it. I could easily see them meaning color additions.
The quotes suggest that the designers refrained from doing something they "always" do. Adding a color, or even three, doesn't really fit that description. Now, if they replaced one or more colors with new ones, or completely left a color out, that might have provoked such a remark.
Lets say they want to add a new color, we can all agree that throwing it directly into the existing pie will screw up a bunch of stuff. This is why I had proposed a side pie. To make a side pie meaningful it would have to have some sort of symmetry. The minimal symmetry is a two color symmetry. Purple and yellow being the most obvious. I think this doesn't offer as much variation as WotC would like, so I suggest that it is at least 3 colors (as they prefer odd number symmetry). It could be orange, purple, yellow, but I think brown is a more natural choice.
The minimal symmetry is a one color symmetry: a single sixth color by itself, right in the center of the "side pie."
Consider the difficulty the design team had in coming up with ideas for even a single extra color (admittedly, they didn't really want it to do anything new in that instance). I think the very next block is a bit too soon to expect them to have suddenly come up with good ideas for multiple new colors.
Also, consider that five colors arranged in a circle is one of the simpler things for players to understand about Magic. The game even comes with a built-in cheat sheet on the back of each card.
Adding a single extra disjoint color would create a special "secret" color, which might make it memorable enough to stand on its own.
Adding three or more separate disjoint colors would dilute their specialness, making them just another group of things to remember. Making a set dedicated to each color, as you've suggested, might help current players remember those colors, but it won't do much to help future players when someone uses Blessing of the Nephilim on Transguild Courier and they learn that it's Teal and Mauve and Periwinkle in addition to the five regular colors.
Also, I'm curious about whether you believe that Sandwich is part of the Lorwyn block and, if so, why that set wouldn't get its own color, too.
1. They have stated before that the game is only as smart as the players are. Adding in 3 more colors and slimming down the existing colors is far more complex and tedious then it is fun. Adding in extra rules that serve no real purpose aside from just being there seems to have gone to the wayside.
2. Mana will always be apart of the game. Its tempo, it keeps everything in check. If there is an additional color (or more) it will have mana. If not then everyone would build the mana free decks when they just start playing. The learning curve would then become so steep that new players would give up before figuring out how to get out a dragon.
3. They stated that modifying the back image of the card is not allowed (for a few reasons) so more colors would only be temporary.
4. If they were to follow your example of a different color per set then the idea would be so thin and flat it would fail outright. It would either be too week to be worth anything or too strong and dominate (think affinity from mirr block days)
5. Magic is set in it's foundations of play. Adding in radical new changes to the basic rules for these colors (warping them so they no longer look or act as magic does now) would be suicide. They would not want to risk loosing their base audience. Combine this with the fact that magic is owned by wizards who put out other CCG's. So if they have some amazing new way to play magic, they could just make a new game and market it to make even more money.
One new color, maybe, sure why not? but 3? no way. Unless you can come up with some logical counter arguments, I really doubt 3 new ones. Plus just for the hell of it, yellow is out cause it too close to gold.
1. They have stated before that the game is only as smart as the players are. Adding in 3 more colors and slimming down the existing colors is far more complex and tedious then it is fun. Adding in extra rules that serve no real purpose aside from just being there seems to have gone to the wayside.
2. Mana will always be apart of the game. Its tempo, it keeps everything in check. If there is an additional color (or more) it will have mana. If not then everyone would build the mana free decks when they just start playing. The learning curve would then become so steep that new players would give up before figuring out how to get out a dragon.
3. They stated that modifying the back image of the card is not allowed (for a few reasons) so more colors would only be temporary.
4. If they were to follow your example of a different color per set then the idea would be so thin and flat it would fail outright. It would either be too week to be worth anything or too strong and dominate (think affinity from mirr block days)
5. Magic is set in it's foundations of play. Adding in radical new changes to the basic rules for these colors (warping them so they no longer look or act as magic does now) would be suicide. They would not want to risk loosing their base audience. Combine this with the fact that magic is owned by wizards who put out other CCG's. So if they have some amazing new way to play magic, they could just make a new game and market it to make even more money.
One new color, maybe, sure why not? but 3? no way. Unless you can come up with some logical counter arguments, I really doubt 3 new ones. Plus just for the hell of it, yellow is out cause it too close to gold.
1. I never proposed slimming down the other colors. I propose to keep them intact and 'add' new colors.
2. These new colors don't 'have' to use mana in the same way the traditional colors do. As long as it is balanced and that these new colors are not overpowered compared to existing colors I could see them designing it very differently. This is a good chance to explore new methods of gameplay, otherwise why justify the new side pie? However, it 'might' use mana and lands as well.
3. I never proposed that they would alter the back of the cards. I think the cards would continue looking the same. There would just be 3 new colors. (I honestly don't know why people think this is a valid argument against a new color. It is easily solved by not changing the back, period.)
4. I'm not stating that they will add a new color per set. I just think that there could be 3 colors. That is saying that no blue cards can show up in Ravnica because the Simic had not been made yet.
5. Again, these new colors *might* play differently. They wouldn't change the way the traditional colors played. It would provide an option to players if they wanted to try out building a new deck with the new colors, build a deck with a combination of the old and new colors, or just stick with the old standby of old colors.
I am not suggesting that these new colors should be overpowered.
I am not suggesting that these new colors take away anything from the old colors.
I am suggesting that these colors might play differently, thus giving them a reason to exist (otherwise why do it?).
These colors would have a separate symmetry and balance among themselves.
Here is a quick run down of how I see things in a very generalized manner:
Green - Nature (Land Accel, Fatties)
Black - Death (Discard, Symmetric Damage)
Blue - Magic (Counterspell, Flyers)
Red - Chaos (Direct Dmg, Haste)
White - Order (Life Gain, Protection)
Completely made up:
Yellow - Spiritual (Spirit is represented by the deck/handsize/graveyard/life totals)
Brown - Physical (Permanents other than enchantments, combat/creatures/lands/artifacts)
Purple - Mystical (Enchantments/Sorceries/Instants)
Beware the following is just complete bull just to give an example:
The side pie allows you may play two 'zeniths' per turn. Zeniths are how the side pie gets 'mana'. Zeniths may be tapped individually to produce Zenergy. Zenergy may be used like mana to cast side pie spells. Zeniths can also be tapped with lands to produce Zana. Zana causes side pie spells to do something different (become instants, have a kicker like cost, or allow you to untap your lands, maybe put things directly into play, whatever). The side pie would have a weakness against the traditional colors, but it's advantage would be that it could synergize with itself and the old colors to produce an advantage. Depending on what the side pie color is it would have different weaknesses, such as Yellow would be weak against permanents, but would be strong against life totals/hand sizes/graveyards/decks/etc. Brown would have issues with most forms of magic/enchantments/etc, while be stronger against lands and creatures. Purple would have problems with creatures/lands/artifacts, while be stronger against magic sources.
So here we have a balance in this new pseudo-pie that does not take away from the existing colors and has a 'reason' for existence. Otherwise, why would they do it?
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Peanut = Brown
Butter = Yellow
Jelly = Purple
Problem solved in one fel swoop. Major rule, new color, names. All fits.
Edit: Please read my following posts for more explanation on what I mean by this. People have been quick to judge and are repeating the same disagreements. Lastly, if you don't think this is a good idea, explain why rather than insult. I'm getting sick of it.
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1. They had the article all about purple to wet our pallet.
2. They said a major rule would get broken with it. Though some speculate the major rule might be the addition of a fourth expansion in the block.
I have suggested these colors even before I knew the names of the set. If you think about it these are the few remaining colors that are distinct from the existing colors.
Yellow, Brown, Purple.
Orange 'could' be a color, but it doesn't feel as distinct as those three.
They might introduce purple into Future Sight, but this 'major rule' being broken just smacks of addition to the color pie.
Dismiss it if you want. Afterall it is pure speculation.
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Like a tangent pie?
I can... sort of see it.
There is an imposter among us...
Obviously, Rock is the green / black set!
Paper is the set where they start printing cards on newsprint!
Scissors is the set where they replace the normal packaging foil with acrylic clamshells so we have to use hardware to open them!
Live Long and Prosper block!
Live is obiously the life gain set!
Long is the set where you games all last an hour or more!
Prosper is nothing but reprints of Prosperity, in all 11 colors!
I mean we can imagine a plane where for any number of reasons a new type of magic is developed which uses a previously unused type of mana. In fact, thinking about it that way (purple) sounds cool.
But 3 new types of mana and colors that were never used? How different would these colors be? One would inevitably have burn and be compared with red. One would have good creatures and be compared to green (and white). And one would be overpowered and compared with blue So at that point you look back and wonder why you alienated your audience and endured tons of ridicule to basically redo the color pie in pretty much the same way.
Which is why 1 new color makes the most sense (especially if they can hit upon a good mechanical theme to link the color together). It should be powerful but unstable.
And that's the sort of reasoning WotC would use to rule it out, because people might be dumb enough to be confused by that.
Of course, it's irrelevant since three new colors will never happen, and if they add another color, it sure as hell won't be brown over purple (or perhaps orange or yellow).
W: Lifegain, Weenies, Battle Tactics
U: Control, Control, and some big fatties
B: Kill, Control, Graveyard effects
R: Direct Damage, Gobbos, LD
G: Big Fatties, land effects, creature tokens
granted the colors spill a bit every now and then... but try adding three new colors
Y: Weenies, Direct Damage, and Bananas?
B: Control, Kill, and Big Fatties
P: Graveyard, RFG, Card drawing?
to me it looks more like you just tried to bake a smaller pie, and in the end, Yellow will be ruled out for looking to close to white, Orange for being to close to red, Teal to close to Blue, and Brown having already been a background...
nough is nough, no more three extra colors
BAKA!
I think an additional 'side pie' of colors is completely viable. These cards could behave in a different way, but still be playable with existing cards. Maybe they get mana differently, maybe they don't even use mana, whatever.
I personally see this the best way to add colors to magic. Just randomly sticking in a new color does not seem like WotC's style and breaks much of the symmetry of the game. WotC is all about symmetry. If they bring in another color, they will balance it somehow.
The article about purple was from an alternate 'past' perspective. I am talking about a present implementation (Lorwyn) of a new set of colors.
At any rate, to all of those who insulted rather than discusses, I hope you get an infraction or two.
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This sentiment alone makes me sort of look forward to more colors. It would be creative, fun, new, and interesting while not throwing off the very groundwork of the game too much.
Edit - Example
Malitia 3W
Creature -- Human Soldier
Vigilance
~ gets a +1/+1 counters for each city mana used to pay for it.
2/4
Flavor-wise, the more cities you have to draw from, the more soldiers you get.
If they have two other mana types then you need to balance your deck to fit the types you want like playing multicolor with one color. So you may be playing white, but you are playing City/Sky White. It is mostly like snow, but I think there can be a lot of space to play with it. If this is how they do new colors, though, then it isn't in Peanut as whatever they are doing there hasn't been done, unless they do something new and mana qualities in the same block.
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My Have/Want list (MTGO)
I for one, don't consider a sixth color a possibility, I consider it an inevitability. It will happen.
But, you make two gaffes that are cringe-worthy:
A) You tie in the block's codenames to actual changes in cards or mechanics (in this case, tying the color of Magic cards to the color of sandwich condiments). People have done this in the past. They are never correct. The codenames really are just codenames. If you were right, you would be the first of many who have made such predictions to be correct. I see no reason why you are more likely to be correct than any of those people.
B) You don't acknowledge that people talk about the sixth color every single set. This has been going on since the game was released in 1993. The only reason why it is more likely to happen now than it was to happen then is because of the alternate reality theme. But, they chose not to take that opportunity.
I actually will argue that you don't know which posts I am talking about. Go back and take a look again. Several have no reason or justification, but are pure insults.
I do fully understand that 'code names' can just be code names. Yes I am fully aware that these names have never really given 'information' about the respective sets. This trend could change. That is all I am proposing.
I personally don't really care about what other people have talked about. It does not devalue any points I have here or justify insults. I am merely proposing that the introduction of new colors into Future Sight is not necessarily the only possiblity.
I have previously speculated about the introduction of a side pie and what colors they would be. I had already discussed brown, yellow, and purple. I found it interesting that these colors abstractly match the colors of Lorwyn.
This further peaked my interest as Lorwyn supposedly breaks a major 'rule'. Even the intent behind the word 'rule' has been called into question about exactly what was ment by it. I could easily see them meaning color additions.
Lets say they want to add a new color, we can all agree that throwing it directly into the existing pie will screw up a bunch of stuff. This is why I had proposed a side pie. To make a side pie meaningful it would have to have some sort of symmetry. The minimal symmetry is a two color symmetry. Purple and yellow being the most obvious. I think this doesn't offer as much variation as WotC would like, so I suggest that it is at least 3 colors (as they prefer odd number symmetry). It could be orange, purple, yellow, but I think brown is a more natural choice.
Again, this is pure speculation and I have stated that. I should not be weathering dismissive comments, even if this has been spoken about before, this is something people disagree with or would hate to see, or even if it has no existing examples. My point of bringing this to a thread was to see if people could see a 'side pie' actually working in their minds eye.
Current Decks:
Saproling Crush
Faeries
WRStuffymare
BDiscard Damnation
RBLand? What Land?
In Progress:
RGVintage Liquimetal
Artist Strikes Fish
Offseting the balance? How so?
Because it would steal traits from other colors? If sufficient effort was put into it these colors could not dip into any of the existing color pie traits. That is why it is a 'side pie'.
Offset because it would alter the existing color balance? Again, since it would be a side pie it wouldn't alter the existing balance of the normal colors.
As for drafting, these extra colors might be viable even if drafted outside of a Lorwyn block draft. It all depends on how they function mechanically in the game. Who knows, maybe you can cast purple spells by tapping enchantments? Maybe purple doesn't even have mana the normal way you and I think of mana. Maybe it uses something else.
Granted this would be a HUGE change for the game, but I could see a 3 color side pie being added that plays completely differently from the normal 5 colors. It would be interesting to see the interplay between these new colors and the old 5 and how you could build hybrid decks that used the mechanics of purple to drive green, etc....
However, I do fully agree with you that we might see the hints of the new color in Future Sight, but I don't think it will be what everyone thinks.
Current Decks:
Saproling Crush
Faeries
WRStuffymare
BDiscard Damnation
RBLand? What Land?
In Progress:
RGVintage Liquimetal
Elsewhere, I listed this set of qualities we normally attribute to "colors" in Magic:
- an element of an object's "color" characteristic (Transguild Courier is all of them)
- a type of mana
- one or more components of mana costs that can be paid with a limited set of mana types including at least that type of mana
- a philosophy and a set of mechanics whose inclusion on a card or ability tends to require that type of mana in the cost
- a basic land (with a matching type) that produces that type of mana
- a position in the color pie, including the color's relationships to other colors
- to a small degree, an associated card type (used, for example, in the Gravegdigger cycle)
Maybe it would help if you more fully describe which of these attributes your colors might or might not have, and what additional characteristics they might have to differentiate them from the "regular" five.
I think you'd be better off just saying that those colors are examples, and not really a large part of what you're trying to argue. You're trying to argue that the idea of three disjoint colors might be viable.
Which colors those would be, or in what sets, or why you think so: these arguments are all secondary to your main one.
The quotes suggest that the designers refrained from doing something they "always" do. Adding a color, or even three, doesn't really fit that description. Now, if they replaced one or more colors with new ones, or completely left a color out, that might have provoked such a remark.
The minimal symmetry is a one color symmetry: a single sixth color by itself, right in the center of the "side pie."
Consider the difficulty the design team had in coming up with ideas for even a single extra color (admittedly, they didn't really want it to do anything new in that instance). I think the very next block is a bit too soon to expect them to have suddenly come up with good ideas for multiple new colors.
Also, consider that five colors arranged in a circle is one of the simpler things for players to understand about Magic. The game even comes with a built-in cheat sheet on the back of each card.
Adding a single extra disjoint color would create a special "secret" color, which might make it memorable enough to stand on its own.
Adding three or more separate disjoint colors would dilute their specialness, making them just another group of things to remember. Making a set dedicated to each color, as you've suggested, might help current players remember those colors, but it won't do much to help future players when someone uses Blessing of the Nephilim on Transguild Courier and they learn that it's Teal and Mauve and Periwinkle in addition to the five regular colors.
Also, I'm curious about whether you believe that Sandwich is part of the Lorwyn block and, if so, why that set wouldn't get its own color, too.
1. They have stated before that the game is only as smart as the players are. Adding in 3 more colors and slimming down the existing colors is far more complex and tedious then it is fun. Adding in extra rules that serve no real purpose aside from just being there seems to have gone to the wayside.
2. Mana will always be apart of the game. Its tempo, it keeps everything in check. If there is an additional color (or more) it will have mana. If not then everyone would build the mana free decks when they just start playing. The learning curve would then become so steep that new players would give up before figuring out how to get out a dragon.
3. They stated that modifying the back image of the card is not allowed (for a few reasons) so more colors would only be temporary.
4. If they were to follow your example of a different color per set then the idea would be so thin and flat it would fail outright. It would either be too week to be worth anything or too strong and dominate (think affinity from mirr block days)
5. Magic is set in it's foundations of play. Adding in radical new changes to the basic rules for these colors (warping them so they no longer look or act as magic does now) would be suicide. They would not want to risk loosing their base audience. Combine this with the fact that magic is owned by wizards who put out other CCG's. So if they have some amazing new way to play magic, they could just make a new game and market it to make even more money.
One new color, maybe, sure why not? but 3? no way. Unless you can come up with some logical counter arguments, I really doubt 3 new ones. Plus just for the hell of it, yellow is out cause it too close to gold.
1. I never proposed slimming down the other colors. I propose to keep them intact and 'add' new colors.
2. These new colors don't 'have' to use mana in the same way the traditional colors do. As long as it is balanced and that these new colors are not overpowered compared to existing colors I could see them designing it very differently. This is a good chance to explore new methods of gameplay, otherwise why justify the new side pie? However, it 'might' use mana and lands as well.
3. I never proposed that they would alter the back of the cards. I think the cards would continue looking the same. There would just be 3 new colors. (I honestly don't know why people think this is a valid argument against a new color. It is easily solved by not changing the back, period.)
4. I'm not stating that they will add a new color per set. I just think that there could be 3 colors. That is saying that no blue cards can show up in Ravnica because the Simic had not been made yet.
5. Again, these new colors *might* play differently. They wouldn't change the way the traditional colors played. It would provide an option to players if they wanted to try out building a new deck with the new colors, build a deck with a combination of the old and new colors, or just stick with the old standby of old colors.
I am not suggesting that these new colors should be overpowered.
I am not suggesting that these new colors take away anything from the old colors.
I am suggesting that these colors might play differently, thus giving them a reason to exist (otherwise why do it?).
These colors would have a separate symmetry and balance among themselves.
Here is a quick run down of how I see things in a very generalized manner:
Green - Nature (Land Accel, Fatties)
Black - Death (Discard, Symmetric Damage)
Blue - Magic (Counterspell, Flyers)
Red - Chaos (Direct Dmg, Haste)
White - Order (Life Gain, Protection)
Completely made up:
Yellow - Spiritual (Spirit is represented by the deck/handsize/graveyard/life totals)
Brown - Physical (Permanents other than enchantments, combat/creatures/lands/artifacts)
Purple - Mystical (Enchantments/Sorceries/Instants)
Beware the following is just complete bull just to give an example:
The side pie allows you may play two 'zeniths' per turn. Zeniths are how the side pie gets 'mana'. Zeniths may be tapped individually to produce Zenergy. Zenergy may be used like mana to cast side pie spells. Zeniths can also be tapped with lands to produce Zana. Zana causes side pie spells to do something different (become instants, have a kicker like cost, or allow you to untap your lands, maybe put things directly into play, whatever). The side pie would have a weakness against the traditional colors, but it's advantage would be that it could synergize with itself and the old colors to produce an advantage. Depending on what the side pie color is it would have different weaknesses, such as Yellow would be weak against permanents, but would be strong against life totals/hand sizes/graveyards/decks/etc. Brown would have issues with most forms of magic/enchantments/etc, while be stronger against lands and creatures. Purple would have problems with creatures/lands/artifacts, while be stronger against magic sources.
So here we have a balance in this new pseudo-pie that does not take away from the existing colors and has a 'reason' for existence. Otherwise, why would they do it?
Current Decks:
Saproling Crush
Faeries
WRStuffymare
BDiscard Damnation
RBLand? What Land?
In Progress:
RGVintage Liquimetal