Wizards does like making counters hard to splash unless there is a drawback like with Arcane Denial and Vex... or if the counter is very narrow. This could be narrow enough to cost 1U. But even then this guy can still 2 for 1 just by countering something and then blocking later. And Voidmage Prodigy, you seem to forget, says sacrifice ANY wizard. So it doesn't have to kill itself to be useful.
Force Spike's not a hard counter. Soft counters are easy to splash.
Wizards does like making counters hard to splash unless there is a drawback like with Arcane Denial and Vex... or if the counter is very narrow.
Hard, unconditional counters will almost always have UU in their cost. Wizards has stated that they don't want hard counters to be easy to splash. The conditional counters can be splashable. Same with the ones with drawbacks. But Wizards figures that hard countermagic should require a bit more of a deck's devotion to blue.
Force Spike's not a hard counter. Soft counters are easy to splash.
This guy can 2 for 1. Voidmage can't. Period.
So what you are saying is that because your guy can 2 for 1 he should cost LESS than Voidmage Prodigy? GG.
@Mikey: Yeah I noticed that as I was posting it. I should have been more specific.
I still hope they make counters for each guild. Mainly the black/blue guild though. I heart milling. I guess milling for 10 can be enough but seriously if they brought backa mechanic I'd loooove it to be kicker.
Insult to Injury - 1UU
Instant
Kicker X
Counter Target Spell. If the kicker cost was paid, that spell's controller reveals the top X cards of his or her library. Remove from the game each card revealed this way that shares a color with the countered spell. Put the rest in that player's graveyard.
So what you are saying is that because your guy can 2 for 1 he should cost LESS than Voidmage Prodigy? GG.
@Mikey: Yeah I noticed that as I was posting it. I should have been more specific.
I still hope they make counters for each guild. Mainly the black/blue guild though. I heart milling. I guess milling for 10 can be enough but seriously if they brought backa mechanic I'd loooove it to be kicker.
Insult to Injury - 1UU
Instant
Kicker X
Counter Target Spell. If the kicker cost was paid, that spell's controller reveals the top X cards of his or her library. Remove from the game each card revealed this way that shares a color with the countered spell. Put the rest in that player's graveyard.
He should cost less because he's not a hard counter. And because he can't "use" both his abilities on the same turn (IE counter a shock and block/kill a lightning elemental in the same combat phase if your opponent plays right).
He should cost less because he's not a hard counter. And because he can't "use" both his abilities on the same turn (IE counter a shock and block/kill a lightning elemental in the same combat phase if your opponent plays right).
um... yeah... when I said GG I was done talking about it. GG
I'm wondering if they could make a playable counterspell for UUU. They have Hinder and that is used in Mono Blue decks as it is so I don't think it would be too difficult to make a hard counter with a decent effect at UUU.
A agree, disagreeing with someone is not rude. I just don't like the "umm....yeah..." in a clearly negative context.
If you're not a fan of sarcasm, you should disconnect from the internet right now. It's funny you picked up on this, since you can get away with far more without causing offence.
I believe that he was refering to 3 mana counters, which would be really good with the second color to add in another effect:) . There is no UUR or UUG counter, but there are similar 4 mana counters out already.
Quote from joseyoutlaw »
I would love to see some new gold counterspells. We have had UUB and GUU counterspells, why not UUR or WUU now?
nope.
as for me, i'm just waiting for my Mundungu at this point.
He said that he wanted 3cc counters but also that we already had a UUG counter, so now that I think about it, I am not sure what he wanted.:confused3:
Still a UUG and UUR 3 mana counter would be great. Fun and playable.
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"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
If you ask me, since we already have UUB 1UUG UUW and 1UUR the only real combinatio left is UUU. It's not gold, but.... UUU could be a really powerful counterspell.
UUU: Counter target spell. Draw 2 cards then discard a card.
UUUU: Counter target spell. Return target permanent to its owner's hand.
UUU: Counter target spell. Return target creature to its owner's hand.
UUU: Counter target spell. Whenever a card is put into an opponent's graveyard from his or her library you may return ~this from your graveyard to your hand.
UUUU: Copy target instant or sorcery then counter target spell.
UUU: Counter target spell. Draw 2 cards then discard a card..
That sounds interesting. Perhaps several UUU spells can be printed in a future set(not one about two-colored decks).
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"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
Could there be an undermine variant? something like:
UU(U/B)
Instant ( (U/B) can be paid with U or B .) Counter target spell.
if any B was spent to play this spell, target player loses three life.
Or maybe a mill variant:
UUU
Instant
Counter target spell. It's controller puts the top 2 cards of their library into their graveyard.
Or a discard:
UUB
Instant
Counter target spell. If it's countered this way return it to it's owner's hand instead of that player’s graveyard. then it's controller discards a card from their hand.
(/)
Instant ( (/) can be paid with or .) Counter target spell.
if any was spent to play this spell, target player loses three life.
This is not so much an Undermine varient as a card that's strictly better than Undermine. Which I guess is a varient, but Undermine seems high enough on the power curve not to warrent a strictly better card.
Could there be an undermine variant? something like:
UU(U/B)
Instant ( (U/B) can be paid with U or B .) Counter target spell.
if any B was spent to play this spell, target player loses three life.
I'd say not- that would effectively give 8 undermines per deck for extended.
Though I wouldn't say NO if they printed it:p
Quote from Nightmare256 »
Or maybe a mill variant:
UUU
Instant
Counter target spell. It's controller puts the top 2 cards of their library into their graveyard.
Interesting, and only really playable in mono blue but I don't think so/
Quote from Nightmare256 »
Or a discard:
UUB
Instant
Counter target spell. If it's countered this way return it to it's owner's hand instead of that player’s graveyard. Then it's controller discards a card from their hand.
This one is probably the most feasible but I still don't see it (discard at random would be nicer to). Printing powerhouse counterspells went out with the Invasion block. While many would like to see them back, dominant counters means heavy control and a blue dominated environment- something Wizards have seemingly been trying to correct for years.
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this isn't one of them, this is bologna. Four day old, warm, low-grade bologna. The kind with little bits of animal bones and teeth in it. -Pure R_E brilliance
Now I gotta say.....with all the hype of this set....and now knowing Birds of Paradise is one of the reprints aswell.....and now they say that it'll never be reprinted likely again...which I think is totally understandable.....but I do think Counter Spell has One more non-core expert level LIFE in it for all of us dear ole'magic players......I'm not saying it has to be in Ravnica.....but atleast in Guildpact or Desenssion would be really nice.....like I always say when ppl say I'm about to win the game........NEVER SAY NEVER............it is possible......and I would gladley see it's use ONE last time.....even if it wasn't the best.....it is here in the west.......
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:iagree: Even the mightiest Jitte falls to a Disenchant:iagree:
Personally, I think what would be cool is a bleed cycle of hard counters at 1UU. Now, I highly doubt they'd do this, since that would give 16 hard counters in Ravnica, but this is also speculation. So, here goes:
1UU
Instant
Counter target spell. If any B was spent on this card, that spell's controller discards a card from his or her hand.
1UU
Instant
Counter target spell. If any R was spent on this card, destroy target tapped land.
1UU
Counter target spell. If any W was spent on this card, put a 1/1 Spirit token with flying and protection from the spell's colors into play.
1UU
Counter target spell. If any G was spent on this card, untap 2 lands you control.
Personally, I think what would be cool is a bleed cycle of hard counters at 1UU. Now, I highly doubt they'd do this, since that would give 16 hard counters in Ravnica, but this is also speculation. So, here goes:
1UU
Instant
Counter target spell. If any B was spent on this card, that spell's controller discards a card from his or her hand.
1UU
Instant
Counter target spell. If any R was spent on this card, destroy target tapped land.
1UU
Counter target spell. If any W was spent on this card, put a 1/1 Spirit token with flying and protection from the spell's colors into play.
1UU
Counter target spell. If any G was spent on this card, untap 2 lands you control.
The red one is pretty random for a control deck unless it has U/R with plenti-o-dual lands and lands destruction.
I really like the sprit token thing, very annoying for the opponent.
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"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
Well, the red one is more of a 'destroy a land that tapped for mana to play this spell' effect worded as elegantly (and yes, more flexible) as possible.
Thanks on the white, trying to figure out what to give them...
I actually would REALLY like for a conditional counter to be printed that utilized the strong mill theme the Dimir seem to be having. Something like was posted early with XUU - Counter target spell unless its controller puts X cards from the top of his library into his graveyard, but preferably more like 1U for the top 3/4 cards or somesuch.
Yes, I want to build a mill deck
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Random 1.5 Guy: Your playing Belcher? No one plays Belcher it dies to one counter.
Me: Good Point, but unless your playing some oddball version of Goblins, I think I'm going to win.
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Force Spike's not a hard counter. Soft counters are easy to splash.
This guy can 2 for 1. Voidmage can't. Period.
Hard, unconditional counters will almost always have UU in their cost. Wizards has stated that they don't want hard counters to be easy to splash. The conditional counters can be splashable. Same with the ones with drawbacks. But Wizards figures that hard countermagic should require a bit more of a deck's devotion to blue.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
So what you are saying is that because your guy can 2 for 1 he should cost LESS than Voidmage Prodigy? GG.
@Mikey: Yeah I noticed that as I was posting it. I should have been more specific.
I still hope they make counters for each guild. Mainly the black/blue guild though. I heart milling. I guess milling for 10 can be enough but seriously if they brought backa mechanic I'd loooove it to be kicker.
Insult to Injury - 1UU
Instant
Kicker X
Counter Target Spell. If the kicker cost was paid, that spell's controller reveals the top X cards of his or her library. Remove from the game each card revealed this way that shares a color with the countered spell. Put the rest in that player's graveyard.
He should cost less because he's not a hard counter. And because he can't "use" both his abilities on the same turn (IE counter a shock and block/kill a lightning elemental in the same combat phase if your opponent plays right).
um... yeah... when I said GG I was done talking about it. GG
I'm wondering if they could make a playable counterspell for UUU. They have Hinder and that is used in Mono Blue decks as it is so I don't think it would be too difficult to make a hard counter with a decent effect at UUU.
If you're not a fan of sarcasm, you should disconnect from the internet right now. It's funny you picked up on this, since you can get away with far more without causing offence.
nope.
as for me, i'm just waiting for my Mundungu at this point.
MAHDAHGOO!! (sorry, inside joke)
Still a UUG and UUR 3 mana counter would be great. Fun and playable.
"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
UUU: Counter target spell. Draw 2 cards then discard a card.
UUUU: Counter target spell. Return target permanent to its owner's hand.
UUU: Counter target spell. Return target creature to its owner's hand.
UUU: Counter target spell. Whenever a card is put into an opponent's graveyard from his or her library you may return ~this from your graveyard to your hand.
UUUU: Copy target instant or sorcery then counter target spell.
That sounds interesting. Perhaps several UUU spells can be printed in a future set(not one about two-colored decks).
"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
UU(U/B)
Instant
( (U/B) can be paid with U or B .)
Counter target spell.
if any B was spent to play this spell, target player loses three life.
Or maybe a mill variant:
UUU
Instant
Counter target spell. It's controller puts the top 2 cards of their library into their graveyard.
Or a discard:
UUB
Instant
Counter target spell. If it's countered this way return it to it's owner's hand instead of that player’s graveyard. then it's controller discards a card from their hand.
This is not so much an Undermine varient as a card that's strictly better than Undermine. Which I guess is a varient, but Undermine seems high enough on the power curve not to warrent a strictly better card.
I'd say not- that would effectively give 8 undermines per deck for extended.
Though I wouldn't say NO if they printed it:p
Interesting, and only really playable in mono blue but I don't think so/
This one is probably the most feasible but I still don't see it (discard at random would be nicer to). Printing powerhouse counterspells went out with the Invasion block. While many would like to see them back, dominant counters means heavy control and a blue dominated environment- something Wizards have seemingly been trying to correct for years.
-Pure R_E brilliance
:iagree: Even the mightiest Jitte falls to a Disenchant:iagree:
1UU
Instant
Counter target spell. If any B was spent on this card, that spell's controller discards a card from his or her hand.
1UU
Instant
Counter target spell. If any R was spent on this card, destroy target tapped land.
1UU
Counter target spell. If any W was spent on this card, put a 1/1 Spirit token with flying and protection from the spell's colors into play.
1UU
Counter target spell. If any G was spent on this card, untap 2 lands you control.
Are they powerful? Yep.
The red one is pretty random for a control deck unless it has U/R with plenti-o-dual lands and lands destruction.
I really like the sprit token thing, very annoying for the opponent.
"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
Thanks on the white, trying to figure out what to give them...
Yes, I want to build a mill deck
Me: Good Point, but unless your playing some oddball version of Goblins, I think I'm going to win.