I honestly doubt we'll see miracles much in standard play. From what I've seen all of them are "bad" if you don't get to miracle them. Unlike traps, it's very hard to ensure a miracle draw without some kind of brainstorm mechanic (like JTMS). I doubt any of them will be broken enough for that to be worth building a deck around.
We'll see, when they finish spoiling it, if any of them aren't absurdly expensive as normal spells.
I honestly doubt we'll see miracles much in standard play. From what I've seen all of them are "bad" if you don't get to miracle them. Unlike traps, it's very hard to ensure a miracle draw without some kind of brainstorm mechanic (like JTMS). I doubt any of them will be broken enough for that to be worth building a deck around.
We'll see, when they finish spoiling it, if any of them aren't absurdly expensive as normal spells.
If there are enough red and blue miracle spells, I bet we do see them in Standard. I could easily see Wizards designing enough of them in AVR to warrant a deck. It seems like a cool deck idea if fleshed out enough in design. But, as you say, we'll just have to wait and see while the set is spoiled over the course of the next few weeks.
The concept as a whole that we are speaking of will not be very good unless there are miracle cards with decent costs.
Two cards need to be discussed when talking about Miracles, Brainstorm and Thought Scour. Brainstorm can be used eot to set up the next turns draw, but IIRC Thought Scour is already seeing a little play in legacy, and will just be seeing more if there become really good miracle cards. It will probably be played in the deck running miracles as well to try to draw in response to an opponent casting Thought Scour.
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It's the concept at all not the one spell I'm judging. I realise we've seen one spell and probably one of the worst among them. But look at it this way. If they make a Miracle card that's actually a good spell on its own, then the miracle part of it will largely be ignored, except for the rare occassion that it triggers and you use it. What do I mean? If the miracle spell is good enough that it's worth the basic CMC, you're a lot happier holding on to it when you draw it, and waiting for the right time to trigger it. If it's lifegain or draw you might always use it, but damage/removal/flash creatures you're more likely to want to hold on to.
On the flip side, if they're not worth the CMC they're printed with (you only want it for the Miracle cost) then you're stuck if you draw it and can't play it, either because you haven't the mana or because you have no viable targets/uses for it.
So this is why I predict miracle will be a dead keyword outside of limited and casual. If there are some good enough they might get a deck built around them, as I said with JTMS or some other brainstorm ability, it would work okay, and they might print some as enablers for this mechanic. If so they might work in that deck but I am skeptical.
It will get played in legacy. There is already a viable r/u delver burn deck that will run at least 2 or 3 of these as it can easily stack them with ponder and brainstorm to both flip delver and deal 5 for R. That's pretty redonk. The real question is if having one of these in opening hand and therefore essentially mulliganing is a big enough downside for them to not see more play. At least as 4 ofs
Also I'm gonna guess the previewed card is something like 2WW instant exile target creature, miracle W
It's the concept at all not the one spell I'm judging. I realise we've seen one spell and probably one of the worst among them. But look at it this way. If they make a Miracle card that's actually a good spell on its own, then the miracle part of it will largely be ignored, except for the rare occassion that it triggers and you use it. What do I mean? If the miracle spell is good enough that it's worth the basic CMC, you're a lot happier holding on to it when you draw it, and waiting for the right time to trigger it. If it's lifegain or draw you might always use it, but damage/removal/flash creatures you're more likely to want to hold on to.
On the flip side, if they're not worth the CMC they're printed with (you only want it for the Miracle cost) then you're stuck if you draw it and can't play it, either because you haven't the mana or because you have no viable targets/uses for it.
So this is why I predict miracle will be a dead keyword outside of limited and casual. If there are some good enough they might get a deck built around them, as I said with JTMS or some other brainstorm ability, it would work okay, and they might print some as enablers for this mechanic. If so they might work in that deck but I am skeptical.
I don't quite know about that. How about this:
~ 1WW
Instant
Exile target creature.
Miracle: W
It's fair, it's useful outside of miracle, and it's miracle would still be quite helpful. Or this:
~ 4UU
Instant
Draw 4 cards.
Mircale: 1UU
That one might be too good... Let's try a green one.
~ 2G
Sorcery
Resturn target card from your graveyard to your hand.
Miracle: G
Or maybe:
~ RR
Sorcery
~ deals 2 damage to each creature.
Miracle: 0
All of these are almost playable without their miracle cost, but they can be awesome with miracle. They also have a lot of synergy with Faithless Looting, or similar effects.
And what about Legacy play? Throw it into UR Countertop, which plays Brainstorm, Ponder, Top, and Jace. If you work on a build with Faithless Looting, you could put something really awesome together.
So there's a Red deck anywhere in the world that doesn't want R: 5-damage? No. No there isn't.
That's not relevant to the discussion. More often than you get to draw a 5 damage burn spell for one mana, it'll ruin your curve by not letting you cast your 2 drop on turn 2 or your 3 drop on turn 3 or you'll go the whole game without being able to cast it anyway.
It's fair, it's useful outside of miracle, and it's miracle would still be quite helpful. Or this:
~ 4UU
Instant
Draw 4 cards.
Mircale: 1UU
That one might be too good... Let's try a green one.
~ 2G
Sorcery
Resturn target card from your graveyard to your hand.
Miracle: G
Or maybe:
~ RR
Sorcery
~ deals 2 damage to each creature.
Miracle: 0
All of these are almost playable without their miracle cost, but they can be awesome with miracle. They also have a lot of synergy with Faithless Looting, or similar effects.
As far as I can understand this Miracle thing, I believe they will all be Instant spell since you can normally cast them during the draw phase for their Miracle cost.
Funny thing that the Miracle stuff has been revealed on an Easter day, though.
As far as I can understand this Miracle thing, I believe they will all be Instant spell since you can normally cast them during the draw phase for their Miracle cost.
Funny thing that the Miracle stuff has been revealed on an Easter day, though.
You would be able to cast any card type with Miracle during your draw step, it's an alternate method of casting a card that bypasses it's card type.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
So there's a Red deck anywhere in the world that doesn't want R: 5-damage? No. No there isn't.
Is there a red deck anywhere that doesn't want 4RR: 5 damage stuck in it's hand? Yes, yes there is. Not saying this one spell isn't good, but I would be extremely surprised if it saw play as more than a 1 or 2 of in any red deck.
Certainly does look a lot more like exiling a creature than a miracle or counterspell or mana rock/mox, from that picture. If they aren't being worried about a mox or counter or whatever, yeah, could be a PTE-style effect.
Remember what happened the last time they got 'worried' about a cards power level? They stuck it full of shivs until it was nigh unplayable
I'm curious as how this person got his hands on the preview picture
they post them to the site early. they are only "hidden" because they are not linked to yet. we have figured out when they post them and where we can look for them. it really isn't hard if you computer.
I can't see how they can be scared of a removal effect, unless it's something ridicolous like a Swords to Plowshare with miracle 0. I mean, Swords and Path already cost 1, costing 0 it's not that better when you have to play it from topdeck since it doesn't have the mindtrick effect that 0 mana spells normally have.
What are you talking about? Mox Opal is on of the best artifacts they printed since MRD.
How many decklists did it make it into? Modern affinity? A minor showing in KRed/TS or something like that, but wasn't even a champ there.
Think it saw less play than memnite.
I like hearing about development being nervous about cards. Means we've got a hell of a removal spell coming our way.
Maro doesn't normally write the feature article, though, so his preview card is likely not the one whose art is shown in the first post of this thread. It could be an entirely different card.
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How many decklists did it make it into? Modern affinity? A minor showing in KRed/TS or something like that, but wasn't even a champ there.
Think it saw less play than memnite.
It sees play in every format where artifact aggro is a thing, including Legacy, and is a defining card of all of those decks, allowing them to splash off-color and thin their land counts. Mox Opal is the business; obviously it doesn't go into every deck but it's far from "nigh unplayable."
So this is why I predict miracle will be a dead keyword outside of limited and casual. If there are some good enough they might get a deck built around them, as I said with JTMS or some other brainstorm ability, it would work okay, and they might print some as enablers for this mechanic. If so they might work in that deck but I am skeptical.
I'm waiting more for a good Miracle enabling card/cards rather than miracle cards with decent hard casting cost. I'll hold my judgment till then.
Certainly does look a lot more like exiling a creature than a miracle or counterspell or mana rock/mox, from that picture. If they aren't being worried about a mox or counter or whatever, yeah, could be a PTE-style effect.
Remember what happened the last time they got 'worried' about a cards power level? They stuck it full of shivs until it was nigh unplayable
Yeah, then there was that other card they thought wasn't powerful enough, so the changed mill-2 into a fateseal.
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
I'm going on record right now and stating that before the end of 2012 we will see foil dual lands in booster packs (The real, Alpha dual lands). You can quote me on that.
You mean all ONE of them that you've seen?
If there are enough red and blue miracle spells, I bet we do see them in Standard. I could easily see Wizards designing enough of them in AVR to warrant a deck. It seems like a cool deck idea if fleshed out enough in design. But, as you say, we'll just have to wait and see while the set is spoiled over the course of the next few weeks.
Two cards need to be discussed when talking about Miracles, Brainstorm and Thought Scour. Brainstorm can be used eot to set up the next turns draw, but IIRC Thought Scour is already seeing a little play in legacy, and will just be seeing more if there become really good miracle cards. It will probably be played in the deck running miracles as well to try to draw in response to an opponent casting Thought Scour.
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
It will get played in legacy. There is already a viable r/u delver burn deck that will run at least 2 or 3 of these as it can easily stack them with ponder and brainstorm to both flip delver and deal 5 for R. That's pretty redonk. The real question is if having one of these in opening hand and therefore essentially mulliganing is a big enough downside for them to not see more play. At least as 4 ofs
Also I'm gonna guess the previewed card is something like 2WW instant exile target creature, miracle W
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I don't quite know about that. How about this:
~ 1WW
Instant
Exile target creature.
Miracle: W
It's fair, it's useful outside of miracle, and it's miracle would still be quite helpful. Or this:
~ 4UU
Instant
Draw 4 cards.
Mircale: 1UU
That one might be too good... Let's try a green one.
~ 2G
Sorcery
Resturn target card from your graveyard to your hand.
Miracle: G
Or maybe:
~ RR
Sorcery
~ deals 2 damage to each creature.
Miracle: 0
All of these are almost playable without their miracle cost, but they can be awesome with miracle. They also have a lot of synergy with Faithless Looting, or similar effects.
And what about Legacy play? Throw it into UR Countertop, which plays Brainstorm, Ponder, Top, and Jace. If you work on a build with Faithless Looting, you could put something really awesome together.
That's not relevant to the discussion. More often than you get to draw a 5 damage burn spell for one mana, it'll ruin your curve by not letting you cast your 2 drop on turn 2 or your 3 drop on turn 3 or you'll go the whole game without being able to cast it anyway.
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As far as I can understand this Miracle thing, I believe they will all be Instant spell since you can normally cast them during the draw phase for their Miracle cost.
Funny thing that the Miracle stuff has been revealed on an Easter day, though.
You would be able to cast any card type with Miracle during your draw step, it's an alternate method of casting a card that bypasses it's card type.
I like hearing about development being nervous about cards. Means we've got a hell of a removal spell coming our way.
Is there a red deck anywhere that doesn't want 4RR: 5 damage stuck in it's hand? Yes, yes there is. Not saying this one spell isn't good, but I would be extremely surprised if it saw play as more than a 1 or 2 of in any red deck.
Remember what happened the last time they got 'worried' about a cards power level? They stuck it full of shivs until it was nigh unplayable
they post them to the site early. they are only "hidden" because they are not linked to yet. we have figured out when they post them and where we can look for them. it really isn't hard if you computer.
How many decklists did it make it into? Modern affinity? A minor showing in KRed/TS or something like that, but wasn't even a champ there.
Think it saw less play than memnite.
Maro doesn't normally write the feature article, though, so his preview card is likely not the one whose art is shown in the first post of this thread. It could be an entirely different card.
It sees play in every format where artifact aggro is a thing, including Legacy, and is a defining card of all of those decks, allowing them to splash off-color and thin their land counts. Mox Opal is the business; obviously it doesn't go into every deck but it's far from "nigh unplayable."
Standard: W/R Aggro
normal turn 1 for me in modern is mox opal, lotus petal, lion's eye diamond, black lotus, flash, protean hulk
suck it tron
—Dr. Cox, Scrubs
Yeah, then there was that other card they thought wasn't powerful enough, so the changed mill-2 into a fateseal.
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