People are complaining about this? Seriously, this is the closest to Couterspell we're going to get for some time. Remand was close, but in late game, this is far better. So you have to return a land? If playing control and you've got 7 islands out who cares! THAT is when this spell will matter. Sure it sucks early game, but then run Dispel or Cancel.
This sole question makes me wonder if you actually know how to play control as you claim. Costing only 2, means that you can drop your own board advancement permanents needing only two untapped lands to defend them rather than 3. Costing 2 means that you can win a counterspell war with 4 mana instead 5-6, etc, etc, etc.
And having to return a land makes this a terrible counterspell at early game, which is where control has the hardest time.
This is just another bad counterspell to add to the list of counterspells with dual perposes. Next set they'll have the conditional creature soft counter (only early game) and then a bad counter all around and then they'll tease with a counter that will cause more loses than wins until people learn its the opposite of early game soft counters in that its a late game hard counter. This is "playable" I guess, but it may as well be cancel with a "lolitrollu" for people trying to play it before cancel can be played.
Maybe UG can use it, haven't played green in a long time but its not going in UB or UR I don't think.
This sole question makes me wonder if you actually know how to play control as you claim. Costing only 2, means that you can drop your own board advancement permanents needing only two untapped lands to defend them rather than 3. Costing 2 means that you can win a counterspell war with 4 mana instead 5-6, etc, etc, etc.
We're all aware of the importance of it costing 2. The thing here is that it's not really that much better than Cancel since the times where casting Deprive on turn 2 that wouldn't result in a loss stemming from the opponent's superior board position turning into an overwhelming advantage are extremely rare. Hell, casting this turn 3 or turn 4 would STILL be a bit daft seeing as you're still establishing a presence on the board. It's not until turn 5 where Deprive hits its stride in Standard. The note on counterspell wars is pretty much moot as far as Standard is concerned, too.
Every single word checks out, 2 hits for deprive, 4 hits for UU.
With 4 hits for UU and 2 taken by cards spolied thus far (assuming they consider 1UU and 2UU as UU), there is room for this card.
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Odds of pulling a JtMS from a WWK pack: 1:80
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
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This sole question makes me wonder if you actually know how to play control as you claim. Costing only 2, means that you can drop your own board advancement permanents needing only two untapped lands to defend them rather than 3. Costing 2 means that you can win a counterspell war with 4 mana instead 5-6, etc, etc, etc.
Fix'd.
i think you want to ask, do you want to cast wall of denial on turn 3 or 4, or cast jace, the mindsculptor on turn 4, or turn 5. for me, id rather get those guys out one turn earlier, even casting journey to nowhere on their leech seems better. late game, well cancel does the same thing more or less, but its slightly more useful in the early game.
also, colonnade wins counterspell wars, by beating face.
Ya Im going to go ahead and call bull☺☺☺☺ on this card cause it does the opposite of this set completely. It reduces the amount of mana you have available to you...also this set isn't suppose to function mechanically similar to ZEN/WWK so a card like this that supports landfall is DEFFINITELY NOT IN THIS SET
I wont say its a good counter, but its certainly not bad. Its a hard counter that worst case cenario you HAVE to use turn 2 and it sets back a bit. But late game its fine.
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Originally Posted by Sir Aureus View Post
I don't see why everyone is so confused about the (SoM)expansion symbol. It's clearly a croissant. A metal croissant.
All hail croissant block.
i think you want to ask, do you want to cast wall of denial on turn 3 or 4, or cast jace, the mindsculptor on turn 4, or turn 5. for me, id rather get those guys out one turn earlier, even casting journey to nowhere on their leech seems better. late game, well cancel does the same thing more or less, but its slightly more useful in the early game.
also, colonnade wins counterspell wars, by beating face.
Well, in this new age, this card forces you to think, what would you rather be doing. Because if you are on the draw, there are spells you do not want them to resolve on their turn 3. Mythic's turn 3 BSA comes to mind pretty fast.
This is technically Cancel with a staggered cost. I can live with that if I need more unconditional counters with this kind of drawback.
Though I'm sure it'd make a pretty big splash in eternal formats (like they need more counters), it's probably not too grim for Standard, and it's not going to be played in Extended over Mana Leak.
That's terrible for eternal formats, considering, you know, we've got Counterspell? (Which actually doesn't see much play, as everyone is packing Force of Will and Daze these days).
As for the UU, bonce a land counter's application in standard, it's probably not that great. It might be fine as a 2 or 3 ofs in control decks that uses Halimar Depth (and maybe Treasure Hunt), but it won't buy tempo for the control player that's for sure. But maybe that'll just force the deckbuilders to look elsewhere for their solution to the early creature rush. Why does it always have to be the counterspell's job to solve EVERYTHING?
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I take back every bit of support I've shown for blue mages...you are all a bunch of horrible little babies. If you can't see a decent card right before your eyes then you don't even deserve cancel. You are barely even worth Frazzle. The whole game would be better off if you all just rage quit.
People like you should shut your mouth and try to understand the concept of tempo loss. And stop being an ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ and insulting a whole group of players.
i hope the blue mages dont whine anymore as this card really tests playskills and considering the "drawback" it can create CA when paired with halimar depths.
this would help UW control against the current meta's fast clock.
No it wouldn't. You don't even have a clue what you are talking about.
It doesn't create card advantage at all because halimar depths doesn't draw you a card you idiot. Even worse you think it helps against the current meta's fast clock? How? Setting you back a land drop does the exact opposite of helping you in he current fast meta.
Its only good late game, and its not that bad of a card really, but before you start insulting any person who plays blue you should look at some of the stupid things you are saying. My god its appaling.
do you know a card by the name of DoJ?
and you troll me with a skyfisher?
How is using skyfisher as an example trolling? and who are you calling a troll? Aren't you the one who called blue mages "whiney". Yeah, you are you ☺☺☺☺ing hypocrite.
DoJ is Day of Judgment, you know what that is right?
this is about the worst garbage I have ever seen. This is an aggro counter spell at best. Hell i rather have cancel than this ☺☺☺☺. Marro needs to get his head out of his ass and fix what he has wronged the last couple of years. What is so wrong with a mana leak esque card? try blue counter spell would not be over powered with the insane creature power creep. 3 years aggo if you told me there would be a one mana 2/2 with haste I would called you a liar.
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I like it. Producing double blue is a little tough on my Bant deck but I can see this taking Negates place. It works lovely with Emeria Angel's and Lotus Cobra's landfall.
I personally don't want counterspell back. I like this spell and will test it exhaustively, and probably still play it even if the pro decks end up not using it!
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Beauty of mine, sit before me. Let me peruse you and remember you... always like this.
Well, in this new age, this card forces you to think, what would you rather be doing. Because if you are on the draw, there are spells you do not want them to resolve on their turn 3. Mythic's turn 3 BSA comes to mind pretty fast.
This is technically Cancel with a staggered cost. I can live with that if I need more unconditional counters with this kind of drawback.
if your using deprive as a glorified removal spell, then you really should play removal. journey to nowhere kills T3 BSA just as dead, but i dont just start losing tempo like a madman.
You will not get counterspell back. At least for some time. Maybe it is gone forever.
This is as near as you can get to the original along with Familiar's Ruse which was not so nad with creatures like Sage of Epityr.
First Turn Sage, and you have mana for second turn ruse, if needed and can play the sage again in turn 3 to manipulate your library further. Played quite well for me at the time.
What do you want then?
Mayber UU Counter target spell, its controller gain 5 life or something like that?
Or a path to exile like cointer, where the controler of the spell can search for a land?
You won't get a 2 mana hard counter without drawback again, so face reality.
I don't think "UU counter target spell: you lose the game unless you played this spell after turn 6" is really all that good. Some people just want remand or Mana Leak, stop your @#(*&%#$!. People who would like counterspells want something half-decent, not have $&%@ shoved in their mouths while everyone who knows nothing yells at them for not apreciating it.
You will not get counterspell back. At least for some time. Maybe it is gone forever.
This is as near as you can get to the original along with Familiar's Ruse which was not so nad with creatures like Sage of Epityr.
First Turn Sage, and you have mana for second turn ruse, if needed and can play the sage again in turn 3 to manipulate your library further. Played quite well for me at the time.
What do you want then?
Mayber UU Counter target spell, its controller gain 5 life or something like that?
Or a path to exile like cointer, where the controler of the spell can search for a land?
You won't get a 2 mana hard counter without drawback again, so face reality.
Who are you talking to?
Every single thread that involve blue I always see you say something along the lines of "Counterspell is gone accept that". Who in this thread has said they want counterspell back? Please quote them. Then it will be cool.
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Modern (I collect the format):
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[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron WDeath and Taxes WSoul Sisters RWG Pod Combo URSplinter Twin URStorm RBurn
People just need to stop and realize that there's not going to be a Counterspell reprint! We're not going to get some amazing U or UU hard counter that solves all the worlds problems.
This is crappy to play on T2 but gets more viable as the game goes on. With that said, sure, one can make an argument that you might as well just play Cancel then, but this gives us MORE viable hard counters and in this case it is possible to turn the drawback into a positive, in the right deck.
If I was going to make a deck that only ran 4 counter cards, I'd probably chose Cancel over this one. If I was going to run a deck that ran 8-12 counters, then I'd most definitely consider this one to fill a spot.
Not worth it over Cancel, or the limited 2cc counters. There isn't anything scary coming down turn 2 that can't be solved with t3 WoD, etc. Aggro with counters will play Bant Charm and negate.
I think it could prove to be an allstar in block though...
Maybe UG can use it, haven't played green in a long time but its not going in UB or UR I don't think.
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We're all aware of the importance of it costing 2. The thing here is that it's not really that much better than Cancel since the times where casting Deprive on turn 2 that wouldn't result in a loss stemming from the opponent's superior board position turning into an overwhelming advantage are extremely rare. Hell, casting this turn 3 or turn 4 would STILL be a bit daft seeing as you're still establishing a presence on the board. It's not until turn 5 where Deprive hits its stride in Standard. The note on counterspell wars is pretty much moot as far as Standard is concerned, too.
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With 4 hits for UU and 2 taken by cards spolied thus far (assuming they consider 1UU and 2UU as UU), there is room for this card.
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
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i think you want to ask, do you want to cast wall of denial on turn 3 or 4, or cast jace, the mindsculptor on turn 4, or turn 5. for me, id rather get those guys out one turn earlier, even casting journey to nowhere on their leech seems better. late game, well cancel does the same thing more or less, but its slightly more useful in the early game.
also, colonnade wins counterspell wars, by beating face.
so you counter a non-threat creature that way and in that scenario?
do you know a card by the name of DoJ?
and you troll me with a skyfisher?
well i guess your statement says it all..
im not saying this is excellent but what im saying is this is a GOOD blue spell.
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Well, in this new age, this card forces you to think, what would you rather be doing. Because if you are on the draw, there are spells you do not want them to resolve on their turn 3. Mythic's turn 3 BSA comes to mind pretty fast.
This is technically Cancel with a staggered cost. I can live with that if I need more unconditional counters with this kind of drawback.
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That's terrible for eternal formats, considering, you know, we've got Counterspell? (Which actually doesn't see much play, as everyone is packing Force of Will and Daze these days).
As for the UU, bonce a land counter's application in standard, it's probably not that great. It might be fine as a 2 or 3 ofs in control decks that uses Halimar Depth (and maybe Treasure Hunt), but it won't buy tempo for the control player that's for sure. But maybe that'll just force the deckbuilders to look elsewhere for their solution to the early creature rush. Why does it always have to be the counterspell's job to solve EVERYTHING?
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No it wouldn't. You don't even have a clue what you are talking about.
It doesn't create card advantage at all because halimar depths doesn't draw you a card you idiot. Even worse you think it helps against the current meta's fast clock? How? Setting you back a land drop does the exact opposite of helping you in he current fast meta.
Its only good late game, and its not that bad of a card really, but before you start insulting any person who plays blue you should look at some of the stupid things you are saying. My god its appaling.
How is using skyfisher as an example trolling? and who are you calling a troll? Aren't you the one who called blue mages "whiney". Yeah, you are you ☺☺☺☺ing hypocrite.
DoJ is Day of Judgment, you know what that is right?
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if your using deprive as a glorified removal spell, then you really should play removal. journey to nowhere kills T3 BSA just as dead, but i dont just start losing tempo like a madman.
i would auto 4 of that instantly. 5 life doesnt matter in a control deck, cause its 1 more turn of beating their face in.
I don't think "UU counter target spell: you lose the game unless you played this spell after turn 6" is really all that good. Some people just want remand or Mana Leak, stop your @#(*&%#$!. People who would like counterspells want something half-decent, not have $&%@ shoved in their mouths while everyone who knows nothing yells at them for not apreciating it.
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Every single thread that involve blue I always see you say something along the lines of "Counterspell is gone accept that". Who in this thread has said they want counterspell back? Please quote them. Then it will be cool.
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RBurn
This is crappy to play on T2 but gets more viable as the game goes on. With that said, sure, one can make an argument that you might as well just play Cancel then, but this gives us MORE viable hard counters and in this case it is possible to turn the drawback into a positive, in the right deck.
If I was going to make a deck that only ran 4 counter cards, I'd probably chose Cancel over this one. If I was going to run a deck that ran 8-12 counters, then I'd most definitely consider this one to fill a spot.
I think it could prove to be an allstar in block though...
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