R&D dumbed down blue draw/counter/bounce because people complained about it. They admitted this in an article a while ago, as several people in the thread have mentioned. Its not really an argument to say counterspell is too strong because R&D is folding to whiners.
Anyway, I don't think anyone wants drawgo back, they want blue to be able to do what its supposed to do: counter spells. If they want blue to make more creatures they have to make blue creatures not suck. Problem with that is blue is supposed to have powerful spells INSTEAD of creatures, so when they dumb down spells and boost creatures, blue gets nothing.
R&D dumbed down blue draw/counter/bounce because people complained about it. They admitted this in an article a while ago, as several people in the thread have mentioned. Its not really an argument to say counterspell is too strong because R&D is folding to whiners.
Anyway, I don't think anyone wants drawgo back, they want blue to be able to do what its supposed to do: counter spells. If they want blue to make more creatures they have to make blue creatures not suck. Problem with that is blue is supposed to have powerful spells INSTEAD of creatures, so when they dumb down spells and boost creatures, blue gets nothing.
Perhaps some of R&D think that way, but I suspect most of them recognize the game has become more interactive and diverse in modern times, which is a desire for most designers.
If they can bring back Counterspell without bringing back draw-go, I'll all for it. I do know R&D is playtesting it more than me.
I know the articles about folks not liking spells countered when they are okay with them being terminated... I think that is an oversimplification (on the part of the authors too). What players don't like is being defeated 10 turns ago and being unable to play anything while needle-pricked down 1 life at a time.
That's not the same thing as "doesn't like have spells countered".
Perhaps some of R&D think that way, but I suspect most of them recognize the game has become more interactive and diverse in modern times, which is a desire for most designers.
If they can bring back Counterspell without bringing back draw-go, I'll all for it. I do know R&D is playtesting it more than me.
I know the articles about folks not liking spells countered when they are okay with them being terminated... I think that is an oversimplification (on the part of the authors too). What players don't like is being defeated 10 turns ago and being unable to play anything while needle-pricked down 1 life at a time.
That's not the same thing as "doesn't like have spells countered".
I guess we have a different opinion on what makes a game interactive. Seeing who draws the best creatures the fastest and tapping them into the red zone is far less interactive than having 2 players making logical game altering decisions on every spell they play in my opinion.
The way it is now, creatures have become so powerful that usually what it comes down to is the first person to play a threat that just wins the game when the other person has no way of killing it. I think the current format is silly when someone plays a Baneslayer and you just lose because you can't race it or have no way of killing it in your hand at the time. A slightly different draw where you had 1 more Terminate instead and you'd win that game because you could kill the Baneslayer. I think the game is far more draw dependent now with the uber-powerful creatures and the crappy spells.
Perhaps some of R&D think that way, but I suspect most of them recognize the game has become more interactive and diverse in modern times, which is a desire for most designers.
If they can bring back Counterspell without bringing back draw-go, I'll all for it. I do know R&D is playtesting it more than me.
I know the articles about folks not liking spells countered when they are okay with them being terminated... I think that is an oversimplification (on the part of the authors too). What players don't like is being defeated 10 turns ago and being unable to play anything while needle-pricked down 1 life at a time.
That's not the same thing as "doesn't like have spells countered".
The majority of whiners never played against such a deck, mainly because it hasn't existed for a long time. Most of the complaints are by little kids who get upset when they finally have enough mana to cast their massive bad timmy card and then it gets countered.
Bad players whining is a TERRIBLE reason to remove an aspect of the game. They've already been doing it with LD for a while, though it was definitely too powerful at one point when Sinkhole was around, but not a single decent LD spell has been printed since Time Spiral block, and even then Detritivore and Mwonvuli Acid-Moss weren't exactly at the top of the game then either.
I guess we have a different opinion on what makes a game interactive. Seeing who draws the best creatures the fastest and tapping them into the red zone is far less interactive than having 2 players making logical game altering decisions on every spell they play in my opinion.
The way it is now, creatures have become so powerful that usually what it comes down to is the first person to play a threat that just wins the game when the other person has no way of killing it. I think the current format is silly when someone plays a Baneslayer and you just lose because you can't race it or have no way of killing it in your hand at the time. A slightly different draw where you had 1 more Terminate instead and you'd win that game because you could kill the Baneslayer. I think the game is far more draw dependent now with the uber-powerful creatures and the crappy spells.
Agree 100%, putting creatures down and swinging is not any more interactive than before, all this does is stagnate the game into one archetype where everyone has to run efficiently costed creatures.
I liked old standards more, there were more varieties of flavor other than traditional beats (which are fine, but not when they're the only decktype).
Now with RoE, we're just going to see big fatty beats in addition to little fattie beats.
Since the thread degenerated into the traditional "Blue/Control vs. rest of the world" argument, I am locking it until the card is definitely confirmed. Then you may resume your debate in NCD. Leaving it open here would serve no reasonable purpose.
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Anyway, I don't think anyone wants drawgo back, they want blue to be able to do what its supposed to do: counter spells. If they want blue to make more creatures they have to make blue creatures not suck. Problem with that is blue is supposed to have powerful spells INSTEAD of creatures, so when they dumb down spells and boost creatures, blue gets nothing.
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Perhaps some of R&D think that way, but I suspect most of them recognize the game has become more interactive and diverse in modern times, which is a desire for most designers.
If they can bring back Counterspell without bringing back draw-go, I'll all for it. I do know R&D is playtesting it more than me.
I know the articles about folks not liking spells countered when they are okay with them being terminated... I think that is an oversimplification (on the part of the authors too). What players don't like is being defeated 10 turns ago and being unable to play anything while needle-pricked down 1 life at a time.
That's not the same thing as "doesn't like have spells countered".
I guess we have a different opinion on what makes a game interactive. Seeing who draws the best creatures the fastest and tapping them into the red zone is far less interactive than having 2 players making logical game altering decisions on every spell they play in my opinion.
The way it is now, creatures have become so powerful that usually what it comes down to is the first person to play a threat that just wins the game when the other person has no way of killing it. I think the current format is silly when someone plays a Baneslayer and you just lose because you can't race it or have no way of killing it in your hand at the time. A slightly different draw where you had 1 more Terminate instead and you'd win that game because you could kill the Baneslayer. I think the game is far more draw dependent now with the uber-powerful creatures and the crappy spells.
The majority of whiners never played against such a deck, mainly because it hasn't existed for a long time. Most of the complaints are by little kids who get upset when they finally have enough mana to cast their massive bad timmy card and then it gets countered.
Bad players whining is a TERRIBLE reason to remove an aspect of the game. They've already been doing it with LD for a while, though it was definitely too powerful at one point when Sinkhole was around, but not a single decent LD spell has been printed since Time Spiral block, and even then Detritivore and Mwonvuli Acid-Moss weren't exactly at the top of the game then either.
Agree 100%, putting creatures down and swinging is not any more interactive than before, all this does is stagnate the game into one archetype where everyone has to run efficiently costed creatures.
I liked old standards more, there were more varieties of flavor other than traditional beats (which are fine, but not when they're the only decktype).
Now with RoE, we're just going to see big fatty beats in addition to little fattie beats.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)