A point that nobody has mentioned until now is that you can play your wincon a turn earlier with Deprive than with Cancel. What's important as well is that you can now leave 2 mana open instead of 3 to bluff a counter and your opponent will have to play around it or take the risk of having it countered. It does set you back one land but on the other hand you can play things faster as you basically have 1 mana less to keep open.
I would greatly prefer remand right now, the late game is not where control has it's issues, usually if I can make it to turn 7-8 I have the game locked up in u/w. It is the early game that is the issue which is why I am not sure that this card is worth it.
Maybe they don't want to give Control that kind of consistency (i.e. survive the early game). After all, the only way an aggro deck wins is overcome the control deck before it takes control.
I suspect that what the format truly need is not a decent early-game tempo-saving counter, but rather an awesome combo deck that that control can rise again.
As an aside, it would be hilarious if in the end the card does not turn out to be as spoiled, and ends up something like:
Deprive U
Instant
Target land doesn't untap during its controller's next untap phase.
Indeed. To this day I still don't know when is the correct time to play a spell against a draw-go deck. It seems they always have a counterspell in hand, and I can understand it's frustrating for a new player.
I think that Deprive should mainly be used to protect your finisher/prevent your opponent from finishing you off.
Depends on your goal. For the most part you want to keep up pressure against Draw-Go because they have relatively few removal (barring something ridiculous like shackles in play). You just have to figure out how to put down multiple threats a turn, do EOT shinanigans, etc. against them. The problem is that few decks are equipped to deal with that as well.
Anyways, the counterspell is nice...I guess. The land bounce really hurts control's tempo. I can see this being played maybe in an aggro-control setting, but that would probably be its absolute limit. Worse than Familiar's Ruse because you can't time walk your opponent a second time.
if youre returning a halimar depths youre bouncing a land and are going to have to wait for another turn since it comes into play tapped.
this cant replace the right essence scatter or negate on turn 2.
this could replace cancel late game. and it MIGHT fill in the spot where you run out of essence scatters or negates and cant leave 3 open for cancel. but then bouncing a land could just be prolonging that state.
Maybe they don't want to give Control that kind of consistency (i.e. survive the early game). After all, the only way an aggro deck wins is overcome the control deck before it takes control.
I'm sure that is correct. I am just trying to make the point that all these people saying "Blue mages are just complainers who can't recognize a good card" are wrong because while this card can certainly fulfill a role it is not a role the control currently needs filled. Team that up with the fact that it has the potential to weaken what is already the weakest part of control's game and you have a card that will most likely not see play.
I'm sure that is correct. I am just trying to make the point that all these people saying "Blue mages are just complainers who can't recognize a good card" are wrong because while this card can certainly fulfill a role it is not a role the control currently needs filled. Team that up with the fact that it has the potential to weaken what is already the weakest part of control's game and you have a card that will most likely not see play.
Ah, yes I agree. Well said indeed.
But I'm reluctant to say this will not see play. I would be very happy if someone could use this effectively in a competitive deck. Perhaps there is Landfall deck out there waiting for this card...Calcite Control?
This is good, but it might not be right for Standard. Daze works in Legacy and Vintage where just about every deck can run off of two lands. (Plus it's completely free, which is a bit different than this.) Standard decks typically want to keep at least four to five out. It's certainly not a bad card, and I honestly hope it's real.
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
But I'm reluctant to say this will not see play. I would be very happy if someone could use this effectively in a competitive deck. Perhaps there is Landfall deck out there waiting for this card...Calcite Control?
It might see play, but I highly doubt it will make it in any decks that are currently out there performing well. The u/w ally deck might be able to run it since it has a relatively low curve and wont lose much tempo.
Yeah...i miss that part of Magic...when you are playing the control deck, and have one counterspell ready for the perfect threat. And if you get the timming right, the feeling is priceless.
Sam as when you are on the other end, try to catch offguard the control player to stick you threats.
Bluffing is not for the one that is playing the counterspells...you bluff your baits too.
I think now days we are living the Chandra Nalaar rule..."When in doubt release you biggest bomb" or was it Jaya Ballar?
welcome to mainstream magic. It may not be fun anymore, but it makes Wizards a lot of money.
As for Deprive...
its not great, but its a decent card. Bouncing lands like Halimar Depths or Khalani Garden is really nice.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
It might see play, but I highly doubt it will make it in any decks that are currently out there performing well. The u/w ally deck might be able to run it since it has a relatively low curve and wont lose much tempo.
U/W Control is gonna eat this up. Nom, Nom, Nom. This is a killer card for control.
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
U/W Control is gonna eat this up. Nom, Nom, Nom. This is a killer card for control.
It doesn't help u/w control in the areas it needs help. U/W can not afford to miss early land drops in this environment and while this is a great late game counter u/w already has a great late game. I would rather run a mix of essence scatter and negate to get me through the early game than run this to help me be more efficient in the late game that I already usually dominate.
The card is fine I just think it will have a hard time finding a home in the current standard.
It doesn't help u/w control in the areas it needs help. U/W can not afford to miss early land drops in this environment and while this is a great late game counter u/w already has a great late game. I would rather run a mix of essence scatter and negate to get me through the early game than run this to help me be more efficient in the late game that I already usually dominate.
The card is fine I just think it will have a hard time finding a home in the current standard.
<.<, This is better then cancel late game and solves the early game issue of not having the right counter because we didn't have a good 2CMC hard counter early game. Using chalice to offset this will be fine, and I fully see KotWO being used quite a bit more as he combo's insanely well with this. Bounce a depths, drop a fort, Play your KotWo and you've got a great first striking dude and your land count is back on track.
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Late to the convo (really, 4 AM my time), but I hope this makes Blue mages happy. "Wizards doesn't care about us!" all in due time.
And don't tell me it's one card, it's a good card.
Hope it's legit - I've been waiting for this card since Landfall was spoiled as the Zendikar block mechanic! The design is just so...obvious. I guess they held it off to ROE because it would've been crazy good in ZEN block limited.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig banner by Xyre. My MTG Blog (inactive)
GDS1 & GDS2 entrant. Former Rules Advisor & casual-level TO. Semi-lapsed player in general.
Control players scream for Remand/Mana Leak/Rune Snag. Why?
I mean, the current format is really creature heavy. So Essence scatter should be fine at the two mana slot, should it not?
I think as long as the format is so creature heavy we wont see a Mana leak type of spell since wizards thinks a 2 mana creature counter and a two mana non creature counter, along with a 3 mana hard counter is enough.
So I would set my hope on M11 and Scars of mirroding for new counters of Mana Leak / Remand level.
Essence scatter is too limited, and situational, part of control is about the most utility out of everything you have in your deck, so you need every card to count all the time. You cannot afford to have one of your few creatures removed while your holding an essence scatter that came to late and your opp already has two creatures on the board. Your better off playing removal 95% of time over essence scatter (5% of time it could be an untargetable creature). If its a counter anything counter now were talking a different story because there is so much more utility to it. Rune Snag and Mana leak are very balanced and would be fine to reprint, I prefer Rune snag... Remand is good early/mid game, I never really liked it late game.
That said this new counter is not suitable to take down early threatts, control needs to build up its mana on the board and returning mana is not a good thing... Daze is another story because you do not have to wait to play things early. Wizards overestimates counterspells, or is ultra conservative favoring newbs.
In the standard format Wizards could reprint FOW (ext would obviously be negatively impacted), and it would not be over powered because its a 2 for 1 not in your favor... When FOW was printed it was modertly played for that reason and not like it is today because the quantity of draw cards were not there in the past.
SOMEONE has to say it, and I guess, it has to be me again...
But first, for the record: Deprive, as spoiled here, is not a bad card. It will definitely see play in Standard. However, it is not the basic utility spell which Blue needs. It compares to Counterspell roughly the same way Shard Volley compares to Lightning Bolt (Cancel, BTW, would be the equivalent to Rift Bolt without the suspend option). It is underpowered, yet useful, and there are ways to exploit its disadvantage to one's advantage.
Now, to the important topic: THERE IS NO SUCH PROFILE AS A "BLUE PLAYER". There is just a minority of players who have a deeper understanding of this game's strategy and wish its balance to be restored, and there is a majority of players who lack the skill to beat reactive decks and thus completely overestimate the power of countermagic. It is this majority who is whining (and has been for years), and Wizards are catering to them BECAUSE THEY ARE THE MAJORITY, not because they are right (they even conceded this fact a few weeks ago on magicthegathering.com, albeit in euphemistic terms).
The players who wish for Counterspell to return are NOT "blue players", at least not in any other sense than not being "non-blue-players". They are MAGIC players, and they care for this game's overall balance.
Counterspells haven't been overpowered compared to other colors' best spells since the days of Mana Drain. Blue decks have never been as dominant as the majority of players perceived them to be; they just possess the inherent quality to give their pilots a more pronounced advantage against clearly inferior decks and players. (That is because they maximize interaction, and thus maximize the opportunity for bad plays on both sides of the table.) The greatest strength of Blue lay never in its counterspells, but in its card drawing. However, it needs the basic utility of counters to function. That's its part of the color pie. That's why it dosn't get removal, efficient weenies or direct damage. Without good countermagic, Blue cannot compete with the other colors.
Everyone who talks about "blue players" whining is nothing more than a troll, because there is no group of "blue players", and it's the "non-blue players" who do the whining.
I love you.
Why can't more players be like this? Then standard would be awesome
Deprive is a solid aggro card and awful in control. imagine 2 of these in your opener. auto mull
I'm not sure what to make of this one. Not surprising that the first new card more than vaguely reminiscent of counterspell since familiar's ruse has sparked such acrimonious debate. I think that I'm in agreement with the basic consensus- that this card is probably not too great, let alone an autoinclude, in any T2 control build. But U-x aggro might become vaguely viable in T2, though how I don't know. Seems like there isn't really anything in blue now that even resembles the skeleton of a good aggro deck. Except maybe Esper or summat.
We shall see.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This deck is going to be so damn terrible. It's going to be SO BAD that Kanye is going to interrupt me, telling me that, "I'ma let you finish, but Measure of Wickedness is the WORST CASUAL DECK OF ALL TIME" just to try and make me feel better. Srsly.
Hey everybody-
i.e. means "that is," not "for example."
e.g. means "for example."
This is not arbitrary. i.e. stands for Latin "id est," while e.g. stands for "exemple gratia."
Remember this!!
I'm a Magic Rules Advisor!
Also, the reason this card wasn't in Worldwake is because, like Realms Uncharted, ROE has to have a few cards that play well with cards from Zendikar or Worldwake. Every block needs cards that play well with cards from the blocks before and after it, and this is the same principle.
I fully see KotWO being used quite a bit more as he combo's insanely well with this. Bounce a depths, drop a fort, Play your KotWo and you've got a great first striking dude and your land count is back on track.
Good luck making a mana base that wants UU turn 2, and WW turn 3, all while running Halimaar Depths and not losing waaaaay to much tempo by using too many etbft lands.
I'll certainly test this, but I'm pretty happy with my counter suit right now, running 4 Negates for control's true enemy with 3Essence Scatter to catch 186 creatures.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Maybe they don't want to give Control that kind of consistency (i.e. survive the early game). After all, the only way an aggro deck wins is overcome the control deck before it takes control.
I suspect that what the format truly need is not a decent early-game tempo-saving counter, but rather an awesome combo deck that that control can rise again.
As an aside, it would be hilarious if in the end the card does not turn out to be as spoiled, and ends up something like:
Deprive
U
Instant
Target land doesn't untap during its controller's next untap phase.
Depends on your goal. For the most part you want to keep up pressure against Draw-Go because they have relatively few removal (barring something ridiculous like shackles in play). You just have to figure out how to put down multiple threats a turn, do EOT shinanigans, etc. against them. The problem is that few decks are equipped to deal with that as well.
Anyways, the counterspell is nice...I guess. The land bounce really hurts control's tempo. I can see this being played maybe in an aggro-control setting, but that would probably be its absolute limit. Worse than Familiar's Ruse because you can't time walk your opponent a second time.
燃える時計秘密めく花の香り
www.pokemoncrossroads.com
this cant replace the right essence scatter or negate on turn 2.
this could replace cancel late game. and it MIGHT fill in the spot where you run out of essence scatters or negates and cant leave 3 open for cancel. but then bouncing a land could just be prolonging that state.
I'm sure that is correct. I am just trying to make the point that all these people saying "Blue mages are just complainers who can't recognize a good card" are wrong because while this card can certainly fulfill a role it is not a role the control currently needs filled. Team that up with the fact that it has the potential to weaken what is already the weakest part of control's game and you have a card that will most likely not see play.
Ah, yes I agree. Well said indeed.
But I'm reluctant to say this will not see play. I would be very happy if someone could use this effectively in a competitive deck. Perhaps there is Landfall deck out there waiting for this card...Calcite Control?
It might see play, but I highly doubt it will make it in any decks that are currently out there performing well. The u/w ally deck might be able to run it since it has a relatively low curve and wont lose much tempo.
welcome to mainstream magic. It may not be fun anymore, but it makes Wizards a lot of money.
As for Deprive...
its not great, but its a decent card. Bouncing lands like Halimar Depths or Khalani Garden is really nice.
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
U/W Control is gonna eat this up. Nom, Nom, Nom. This is a killer card for control.
It doesn't help u/w control in the areas it needs help. U/W can not afford to miss early land drops in this environment and while this is a great late game counter u/w already has a great late game. I would rather run a mix of essence scatter and negate to get me through the early game than run this to help me be more efficient in the late game that I already usually dominate.
The card is fine I just think it will have a hard time finding a home in the current standard.
<.<, This is better then cancel late game and solves the early game issue of not having the right counter because we didn't have a good 2CMC hard counter early game. Using chalice to offset this will be fine, and I fully see KotWO being used quite a bit more as he combo's insanely well with this. Bounce a depths, drop a fort, Play your KotWo and you've got a great first striking dude and your land count is back on track.
Reprint Misdirection and Dominate . There, now you can you lose to your own cards instead of being mad at blue.
Yeah that's what can make this a decent card. It's not as completely awful as it seems.
Reprint Misdirection and Dominate . There, now you can you lose to your own cards instead of being mad at blue.
Maybe its best use in control is to free up your Essence Scatters and Negates for the early game.
And don't tell me it's one card, it's a good card.
GatheringMagic.com Commander Writer
Twitter: @mtgcolorpie
One of the GDS2 Final 101
Recently Written Posts:
1-31 MTGCP The Complete Commander - Designing Commander
12-18 MTGCP The Day Kibler Shut Down the World
Currently looking to buy miscut Homelands, (my wife thinks I'm crazy too).
Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)
Sig banner by Xyre.
My MTG Blog (inactive)
GDS1 & GDS2 entrant. Former Rules Advisor & casual-level TO. Semi-lapsed player in general.
Essence scatter is too limited, and situational, part of control is about the most utility out of everything you have in your deck, so you need every card to count all the time. You cannot afford to have one of your few creatures removed while your holding an essence scatter that came to late and your opp already has two creatures on the board. Your better off playing removal 95% of time over essence scatter (5% of time it could be an untargetable creature). If its a counter anything counter now were talking a different story because there is so much more utility to it. Rune Snag and Mana leak are very balanced and would be fine to reprint, I prefer Rune snag... Remand is good early/mid game, I never really liked it late game.
That said this new counter is not suitable to take down early threatts, control needs to build up its mana on the board and returning mana is not a good thing... Daze is another story because you do not have to wait to play things early. Wizards overestimates counterspells, or is ultra conservative favoring newbs.
In the standard format Wizards could reprint FOW (ext would obviously be negatively impacted), and it would not be over powered because its a 2 for 1 not in your favor... When FOW was printed it was modertly played for that reason and not like it is today because the quantity of draw cards were not there in the past.
Believe in Christ with all your heart
I love you.
Why can't more players be like this? Then standard would be awesome
Deprive is a solid aggro card and awful in control. imagine 2 of these in your opener. auto mull
We shall see.
Hey everybody-
i.e. means "that is," not "for example."
e.g. means "for example."
This is not arbitrary. i.e. stands for Latin "id est," while e.g. stands for "exemple gratia."
Remember this!!
I'm a Magic Rules Advisor!
Also, the reason this card wasn't in Worldwake is because, like Realms Uncharted, ROE has to have a few cards that play well with cards from Zendikar or Worldwake. Every block needs cards that play well with cards from the blocks before and after it, and this is the same principle.
Commander:
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
BR Olivia Voldaren
BRG Shattergang Brothers
GUR Riku of Two Reflections
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Good luck making a mana base that wants UU turn 2, and WW turn 3, all while running Halimaar Depths and not losing waaaaay to much tempo by using too many etbft lands.
I'll certainly test this, but I'm pretty happy with my counter suit right now, running 4 Negates for control's true enemy with 3Essence Scatter to catch 186 creatures.