It`s not that much of a problem since they`ve printed stuff like Vindicate, Balance, Exalted Angel which are non-reserved cards as judge promos.
However Wizards will have to find some post Masques cards that have high secondary market value and will therefore sell high as judge promos.
Exactly, I mean honestly, part of the main incentive of being a judge are those uber-cool older cards. Post Masques cards are farely easy to find and for the most part less impressive than many of the other promos. I can't think of anything sans- Rav Lands that would even be on the same level.
Does anyone think that this also means the end to any Judge Promos? How will Wizards handle such policies if post 2010, they will cease printing things like the new Natural Order? Do you think this will cause a major loss of judges?
I think this may up end Legacy, which I was really hoping was going in the right direction. Well, I guess I got shown. I don't like this and I'm not really sure what this is going to accomplish. :/
Oh well, at least I get my Mox Diamonds I needed for Stax before they put the clamp on it.
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Wow, I personally think this is a bad idea. I was expecting the Dual lands to come off. I was convinced for them to do that. Will Legacy survive now? I don't know.
This is good news for the game and for those of us whove been playing a long time... I have a lot invested in the game, having a threat of losing it at any time doesnt inspire me to buy more cards from wizards... All cards are aquireable by people if your willing to save a little money for months/years... Just requires a little patience. skip a couple boxes of a crappy new set and save for those moxes instead.
Seems to me there's an easy way to fix this: Cause backlash about them closing the loophole that outwhines the backlash about using the loophole. I'm sure to be sending an e-mail to WotC about this.
Amen! Closing that loophole was about the stupidest thing they could do; that loophole was there way out of an incredibly bad policy.
If a small minority could complain loudly enough to get the loophole closed, surely a larger majority should be able to complain loudly enough to get WotC to reverse-course.
Wow, I personally think this is a bad idea. I was expecting the Dual lands to come off. I was convinced for them to do that. Will Legacy survive now? I don't know.
Yes, Legacy will survive. As long as Merfolk, Burn, and other relatively inexpensive decks can compete, Legacy will survive.
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Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
I'm going to post the email I sent WotC on this topic here so everyone knows my stance on this. As I said earlier, I encourage anyone who agrees with me to speak out on this matter.
Dear Wizards of the Coast,
Regarding your article "Revised Reprint Policy":
This could not have been handled worse. Not only does it deny players of cards that are almost impossible to find, but simply backing your way out of it makes you lose credibility in the eyes of thousands of dedicated players like myself.
In my eyes and they eyes of a great number of players I speak to regularly, allowing a loophole in the reprint policy helps newer players break into Eternal formats. If you wasnt to support Legacy and/or Vintage, you need to make the staple cards of those formats more available or they will slowly die as less and less players have the cardbase for them.
On top of this, your decision to sneak some cards through the loophole only to close the loophole soon after is like saying, "Well, we changed our mind for now, but we're changing it back later." How can a consumer trust a company that is constantly changing its stance like this?
The reprint policy in general is detrimental to the growth of the game's older formats, and the game would be healthier without it. You had a golden opportunity here to phase it out and help new players discover a great new part of the game, and instead you gave into the whining of the minority that are afraid their cards would lose value.
You can still do the right thing here and fix this mistake.
Legacy can survive as long as power creep in new sets continues. Why would you want old busted cards off of the reserve list when new cards might be even more powerful? (2 -3 years down the road)
I don't really see the point of stop printing judge promos on the reserved list. They have already been doing that for years. Why suddenly change? All they had to say was, well we made a mistake with the FTV and Duel Decks and we won't print foils from them. Though, personally I think the reserved list should have been abolished all together. This is most ironic. They took one step forward, just to go two steps back. Shouldn't it be the other way around?
If you follow the link to the actual announcement, on the bottom of the page is a "Respond via email" link. Just go there.
Here's the email I sent:
Dear Wizards of the Coast,
Regarding your article "Revised Reprint Policy":
I thought I saw signs that WotC had reached the end in the sequence of events that would abolish the Reserve List policy when I saw Phyrexian Negator would be reprinted. It was one baby step forward I was willing to accept, even though I dislike foils, because I had visions of newly printed classics I haven't seen or played with in years dancing before my eyes. Weird quirky cards and fun old cards with new text and updated creature types. I imagined an opportunity to participate in formats I never get to play because now other people are showing up to play against. I saw incentives to go to organized events in the hopes of exciting rewards cards and prizes.
But this "two steps back" response really ticks me off. The Reserve List is reaffirmed. Sigh. I can only wait until cooler heads prevail and someone else can make whatever call is needed to get rid of this stupid agreement. I am not buying Phyrexia Vs Coalition or From the Vault because I choose to vote with my wallet. And why would I reward a "have your cake and eat it to" approach to the game I love. Thank you for your time, I beg you to reconsider.
This is good news for the game and for those of us whove been playing a long time... I have a lot invested in the game, having a threat of losing it at any time doesnt inspire me to buy more cards from wizards... All cards are aquireable by people if your willing to save a little money for months/years... Just requires a little patience. skip a couple boxes of a crappy new set and save for those moxes instead.
I dun know why WOTC have to pander to players like you! If we don't continue to buy new product from WOTC, their business is gonna suffer. Then the game will eventually be not as good as before. This is a GAME, not an investment. I don't see why should your investment be protected by WOTC. Players like yourself can be so selfish and not see that what you do can actually be killing the game slowly!
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"Ach! Cash, run! It's the Tarmogoyf!" -My Wallet, last words.
I dun know why WOTC have to pander to players like you! If we don't continue to buy new product from WOTC, their business is gonna suffer. Then the game will eventually be not as good as before. This is a GAME, not an investment. I don't see why should your investment be protected by WOTC. Players like yourself can be so selfish and not see that what you do can actually be killing the game slowly!
I agree with the sentiment shown here, but watch the tone please. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, agree or not.
Chris: Not everyone can save money towards $100+ Magic cards. And the idea that we should have to "save for years" to play a card game shows exactly what the problem is, in my eyes. Also, no one is saying they should reprint Power 9 or anything, but the fact that Duals are approaching $100 is just wrong. Honestly, if they put duals in a special set, the price of other Eternal cards (like Power, Force of Will, etc) would probably go UP due to increased demand in the format, so your "investment" would be safe.
PS: To put this in perspective, I own duals, 2 Moxes, 4 Tarmogoyfs, etc. I have expendable income where I could go buy any non-Lotus Power I wanted this time next week. I don't think that I should be part of some exclusive club for this, nor am I concerned about my investment in these cards since I use them.
I agree with the sentiment shown here, but watch the tone please. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, agree or not.
Chris: Not everyone can save money towards $100+ Magic cards. And the idea that we should have to "save for years" to play a card game shows exactly what the problem is, in my eyes. Also, no one is saying they should reprint Power 9 or anything, but the fact that Duals are approaching $100 is just wrong. Honestly, if they put duals in a special set, the price of other Eternal cards (like Power, Force of Will, etc) would probably go UP due to increased demand in the format, so your "investment" would be safe.
PS: To put this in perspective, I own duals, 2 Moxes, 4 Tarmogoyfs, etc. I have expendable income where I could go buy any non-Lotus Power I wanted this time next week. I don't think that I should be part of some exclusive club for this, nor am I concerned about my investment in these cards since I use them.
I apologise if my tone is too harsh. As you said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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"Ach! Cash, run! It's the Tarmogoyf!" -My Wallet, last words.
To follow in KPDaly footsteps, here is copy of my email:
Dear Wizards of the Coast,
Regarding your article "Revised Reprint Policy":
Who is the Reserve List for? Deciding to never reprint certain cards is helpful to only a small group of Magic fans. Reprinting highly sought after and expensive cards would greatly reduce the cost of entry to the Legacy scene for new players. And new players is what we all want right? At least, most of us. Collectors aren't concerned with adding new players or growing the game. They are concerned about the value of their cards. Regardless, any intelligent collector should know that the original version of something will generally retain most of its value. Topps reprinted the entire 1952 and 1953 baseball sets a long time ago. These reprints never affected the value of the original cards. The reprints simply made new versions that were now accessible again. In fact, Topps 1952 Mickey Mantle has risen in value dramatically in the last 15 years. Not that WOTC should be concerned with a cards value. Which, generally, WOTC is not. WOTC is most often concerned with making Magic as fun as possible. But keeping Eternal formats cost prohibitive is a mistake.
I know everyone at WOTC read Ben Bleiweiss' articles at StarCityGames regarding this matter. He made some extremely strong positive points. Very few would be hurt by reprinting cards such as Tabernacle, Tarmogoyf, the original Dual Lands, and their expensive ilk. And I believe with the boom that Legacy is currently in, it would greatly help the game and its fans in the long run.
Thank you,
Steven Schmaltz
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I know he thinks I'm impressed by a 102 MPH fastball in the 9th inning... Ok, I'm impressed, but that doesn't mean I can't crush it.
My Revisited Wheel of Fortune is worthless! Woooooorthleeeeeeeeeeeess!
To the above poster...the difference between reprinting a 1952 Mickey Mantle and a tournament-legal Black Lotus is that the collector's market for the Mickey Mantle is much greater than the collector's market for Magic cards (the collector's market is different from the player's market). Much fewer people want a Lotus to collect than they do a Lotus to replace their proxy in a Vintage deck. If they reprinted a tournament-legal Black Lotus, the older card would go down in price significantly (I'd estimate it'd be worth between 500 to 700 dollars, with reprints ranging from 100 to 250 dollars), as newer players would want to get the undoubtedly cheaper new copies. Demand from collectors would stay the same, with fewer players wanting the old one, meaning fewer people would want the old card (demand goes down=price goes down). The people holding the cards get mad at Hasbro...who knows what from there.
Yes, Aaron, who has been a very vocal opponent to the Reserved List seems to also not be happy with this decision. It sounds like it's a Corporate issue. Don't get mad at Wizards, it might need to be Hasbro we need to take it up with.
Wizards has devalued the entire secondary market already. Anything they do, or pretend to do, is irrelevant at this point. I mean it's getting hard to name a card that once had good value and sees play that HASN'T been reprinted en mass in recent years. And no, that's not an invitation to start listing cards that still haven't been reprinted. Yes, I know there are a small handful left, thank you.
Exactly, I mean honestly, part of the main incentive of being a judge are those uber-cool older cards. Post Masques cards are farely easy to find and for the most part less impressive than many of the other promos. I can't think of anything sans- Rav Lands that would even be on the same level.
No, it just means they'll start choosing non-reserved cards that Legacy and casual players will buy from judges for absurd amounts of money.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
Oh well, at least I get my Mox Diamonds I needed for Stax before they put the clamp on it.
Standard
BRG Jund
Legacy
W Stax
R Goblins
EDH
GB Nath of the Gilt Leaf
R Adamaro, First to Desire
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Twitter: @mtgcolorpie
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Amen! Closing that loophole was about the stupidest thing they could do; that loophole was there way out of an incredibly bad policy.
If a small minority could complain loudly enough to get the loophole closed, surely a larger majority should be able to complain loudly enough to get WotC to reverse-course.
Yes, Legacy will survive. As long as Merfolk, Burn, and other relatively inexpensive decks can compete, Legacy will survive.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
Thanks! I just shot off a long email to them. Hopefully they will change their minds.
Banner By Seingalt
Here's the email I sent:
Dear Wizards of the Coast,
Regarding your article "Revised Reprint Policy":
I thought I saw signs that WotC had reached the end in the sequence of events that would abolish the Reserve List policy when I saw Phyrexian Negator would be reprinted. It was one baby step forward I was willing to accept, even though I dislike foils, because I had visions of newly printed classics I haven't seen or played with in years dancing before my eyes. Weird quirky cards and fun old cards with new text and updated creature types. I imagined an opportunity to participate in formats I never get to play because now other people are showing up to play against. I saw incentives to go to organized events in the hopes of exciting rewards cards and prizes.
But this "two steps back" response really ticks me off. The Reserve List is reaffirmed. Sigh. I can only wait until cooler heads prevail and someone else can make whatever call is needed to get rid of this stupid agreement. I am not buying Phyrexia Vs Coalition or From the Vault because I choose to vote with my wallet. And why would I reward a "have your cake and eat it to" approach to the game I love. Thank you for your time, I beg you to reconsider.
I dun know why WOTC have to pander to players like you! If we don't continue to buy new product from WOTC, their business is gonna suffer. Then the game will eventually be not as good as before. This is a GAME, not an investment. I don't see why should your investment be protected by WOTC. Players like yourself can be so selfish and not see that what you do can actually be killing the game slowly!
Banner By Seingalt
I agree with the sentiment shown here, but watch the tone please. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, agree or not.
Chris: Not everyone can save money towards $100+ Magic cards. And the idea that we should have to "save for years" to play a card game shows exactly what the problem is, in my eyes. Also, no one is saying they should reprint Power 9 or anything, but the fact that Duals are approaching $100 is just wrong. Honestly, if they put duals in a special set, the price of other Eternal cards (like Power, Force of Will, etc) would probably go UP due to increased demand in the format, so your "investment" would be safe.
PS: To put this in perspective, I own duals, 2 Moxes, 4 Tarmogoyfs, etc. I have expendable income where I could go buy any non-Lotus Power I wanted this time next week. I don't think that I should be part of some exclusive club for this, nor am I concerned about my investment in these cards since I use them.
I apologise if my tone is too harsh. As you said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Banner By Seingalt
Dear Wizards of the Coast,
Regarding your article "Revised Reprint Policy":
Who is the Reserve List for? Deciding to never reprint certain cards is helpful to only a small group of Magic fans. Reprinting highly sought after and expensive cards would greatly reduce the cost of entry to the Legacy scene for new players. And new players is what we all want right? At least, most of us. Collectors aren't concerned with adding new players or growing the game. They are concerned about the value of their cards. Regardless, any intelligent collector should know that the original version of something will generally retain most of its value. Topps reprinted the entire 1952 and 1953 baseball sets a long time ago. These reprints never affected the value of the original cards. The reprints simply made new versions that were now accessible again. In fact, Topps 1952 Mickey Mantle has risen in value dramatically in the last 15 years. Not that WOTC should be concerned with a cards value. Which, generally, WOTC is not. WOTC is most often concerned with making Magic as fun as possible. But keeping Eternal formats cost prohibitive is a mistake.
I know everyone at WOTC read Ben Bleiweiss' articles at StarCityGames regarding this matter. He made some extremely strong positive points. Very few would be hurt by reprinting cards such as Tabernacle, Tarmogoyf, the original Dual Lands, and their expensive ilk. And I believe with the boom that Legacy is currently in, it would greatly help the game and its fans in the long run.
Thank you,
Steven Schmaltz
To the above poster...the difference between reprinting a 1952 Mickey Mantle and a tournament-legal Black Lotus is that the collector's market for the Mickey Mantle is much greater than the collector's market for Magic cards (the collector's market is different from the player's market). Much fewer people want a Lotus to collect than they do a Lotus to replace their proxy in a Vintage deck. If they reprinted a tournament-legal Black Lotus, the older card would go down in price significantly (I'd estimate it'd be worth between 500 to 700 dollars, with reprints ranging from 100 to 250 dollars), as newer players would want to get the undoubtedly cheaper new copies. Demand from collectors would stay the same, with fewer players wanting the old one, meaning fewer people would want the old card (demand goes down=price goes down). The people holding the cards get mad at Hasbro...who knows what from there.
Bad news for you: It already was. $10 if you're lucky. Judge promos don't affect the other versions, ever. There's just not enough of them out.
Sounds to me like AaFo and friends wanted to abolish the list. I have a feeling this is far from over.
GatheringMagic.com Commander Writer
Twitter: @mtgcolorpie
One of the GDS2 Final 101
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