I'm just wondering what we're going to get from Blue in this expansion. Zen was pretty mediocre in a lot of ways compared to the other colors (as usual) except for mill. I don't want blue to become mill-only, and I doubt anyone else does.
We need more control, and maybe some protection from color creatures or something. The CMC of any blue card is way higher than other colors. If you gave me a 2/3 flyer with protect from black/red for 2UU I'd be pleased as punch.
thing is, new Jace is at 4cmc. old one is at 3cmc. that's GINORMOUS difference.
No, no it's not. Come on, if your running New Jace you're playing some kind of control. You should be able to handle turn three easily enough to hit him down on turn four.
No, no it's not. Come on, if your running New Jace you're playing some kind of control. You should be able to handle turn three easily enough to hit him down on turn four.
Anyone who thinks this new Jace is weak is - quite frankly - a fool.
yes, that is one scenario. But
(A) I'm not just talking about standard, I'm talking about running him in general.
(B) I agree, He's Blue's Powerhouse PW even without full confuimration on his abilities.
Anyone who thinks this new Jace is weak is - quite frankly - a fool.
Do you even play Standard? People run 1 CMC cards with 2 power (or landfall + counters) all the time now.
By turn 4, they've got 4-5 creatures out with 2 power each and/or haste and/or landfall boost.
You can't counter if you don't have the mana. Let's assume they play first:
Which means you can't counter their first creature. You can't counter the second one. You can counter the 3rd. You can't counter the 4th if you want the wall. Their next turn: Let's see, how about Gatekeeper which gets rid of the wall...
You just can't make the argument that this card is amazing in monoblue, and even in W/U in Standard it's not mind-blowing by any means. Yeah, I'm not thrilled with it, but I'll probably find a way to fit it into a deck.
Do you even play Standard? People run 1 CMC cards with 2 power (or landfall + counters) all the time now.
By turn 4, they've got 4 creatures out with 2 power each and/or haste and/or landfall boost.
You can't counter if you don't have the mana. Which means you can't counter their first creature. You could counter the second one. You can't counter the 3rd if you want to put that Wall up. You can't counter the 4th. Let's see, how about Gatekeeper which gets rid of the wall...
You just can't make the argument that this card is amazing in monoblue, and even in W/U in Standard it's not mind-blowing by any means. Yeah, I'm not thrilled with it, but I'll probably find a way to fit it into a deck.
Having seen the abilities now, I must say I'm a tad disappointed. The first ability is okay, but nothing amazing. In standard you'll have to do anything and everything to keep him alive for his ultimate ability. I really don't know if it's even possible without practically all control, and maybe some 1 drops for extra protection. Even then it seems hard to imagine.
The ability to see what your next top card is and have some control over what it could be is insane CA, if you use this ability and the top card is an Island, and you know the next card after that (say with Sage Owl's ability) and Card #2 is a Gamebreaker, this ability is insane period.
There's nothing this card couldn't do that isn't great, since this does ALL of the following in one card it save room for other threats.
Second ability is okay I guess, but it's a weaker version of ponder, because you can't shuffle after. So if it's 3 islands, tough.
Yes Ponder is absolutely Insane, But, Brainstorm is effectively a Ponder, with better advantageous, being able to draw the three and stick two cards (say Islands) that were already in your hand for 3 possible better threats now is absolutely Bonkers, I'm assuming you've never played Legacy/Vintage/Classic because cards like this could never be printed in today's standard.
Third, pretty bad. Unsummon has 2 uses in control: Unsummon a creature so that you may cancel him when he comes back, or unsummon your own creature if it's targeted by an instant like bolt or terminate. Since it can't be activated instantly, you could only do the first one, and only if the creature doesn't have haste.
Yes, this would be better if it was at the speed of an instant, but with this you could effectively save another Walker, one who could be a gamebreaker on it's own, that's "almost dead" or reuse it's ability twice all for the singular cost of recasting it.
It could also be used to singularly win you the game, alpha strike's may be extremely rare in control decks, because it's either an alpha that will win the game or they pretty much die, bouncing the biggest source of damage absorption to cement those last few points of damage in is insanely good.
So you're pretty much playing for the 4th ability, which I hope is exile all cards in player's library, then shuffle hand into player's library. Still, again unless you're running an amazing control deck, probably with 4 mind controls, this isn't necessarily a game-ender unless you've done your job keeping everything he has off the table, and I'd have to try and think of how it would work in other decks. A blue-white deck may work with safe passage, journey, path, and what not.
This by Far, is the weakest strengths of the New Jace's True potential, because unless you have a way to absolutely mill those 7 last cards, (or however many they seem to have at the time, barring a 7 damage strike from a Runeflare Trap which would be insanely good if it was more likely to happen, but no...
This Jace will likely be used only for the first 3 abilities, except maybe in Mill Crab.dek, and thus is a Chase Mythic (sadly) because of the exact decks that will spawn from this things true power, (i've already built one my Clan calls
the Sea Stompy Control) However this ability is good if you're able to get it up there, but to be completely honest this isn't what this Jace is made for.
If the second ability was a +, I'd say this is a pretty sweet Planeswalker, but as is I can't help but feel gyped a little. Again, here's to hoping monoblue gets some love in the expansion cards itself to supplement this card.
So far it's likely that his abilities are +2, and everything else is a minus counter. but this still is a great walker, just because he has so much versatility, even if you pay 2UU for a Brainstorm and he dies next turn. it was points for you, you got to hand fix, then saved yourself 2 more life...
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Yeah, I guess my beef with monoblue (one of my favorite colors to play) is that a lot of those cards are situational in that you have to have them in your hand while stuff's going on. Which means you have to run enough of them. Yeah, there's answers, but you have to remove answers to make room for others, etc.
With Red, White, Black, they can have mediocre draws and have a great advantage over blue. If you draw perfectly with blue, you're on par with the other colors.
Do you even play Standard? People run 1 CMC cards with 2 power (or landfall + counters) all the time now.
By turn 4, they've got 4-5 creatures out with 2 power each and/or haste and/or landfall boost.
You can't counter if you don't have the mana. Let's assume they play first:
Which means you can't counter their first creature. You can't counter the second one. You can counter the 3rd. You can't counter the 4th if you want the wall. Their next turn: Let's see, how about Gatekeeper which gets rid of the wall...
You just can't make the argument that this card is amazing in monoblue, and even in W/U in Standard it's not mind-blowing by any means. Yeah, I'm not thrilled with it, but I'll probably find a way to fit it into a deck.
Sigh.
Ignoring the fact that we might have a new U1 counterspell for turn 2, here are some other cardsthatstopyour1-3dropsdead. To name a few.
Ignoring the fact that we might have a new U1 counterspell for turn 2, here are some other cardsthatstopyour1-3dropsdead. To name a few.
Do you even play Magic?
Hi, I was talking about mono-blue Standard. I've repeated that several times over in my posts. Flashfreeze? Really? Lol. Essence Scatter can be played on Turn 2-3, that's about it. Again, they get out lots of creatures before that happens.
Hi, I was talking about mono-blue Standard. I've repeated that several times over in my posts. Flashfreeze? Really? Lol. Essence Scatter can be played on Turn 2-3, that's about it. Again, they get out lots of creatures before that happens.
If you were talking about mono-blue, not sure why you mentioned the blue-white Wall of Denial. And Flashfreeze saw lots of play at Worlds, even maindecked, so you probably shouldn't just scoff at it.
What you're describing is the absolute god draw from an aggro deck and, yeah, control is just going to lose those games. Boros has games where they get 5 guys on board by turn 4, but they also have many more games where they get 3.
to everyone complaining that the Brainstorm ability is not even as good as Ponder, please read thesecards. You've obviously never played them in tandem with Brainstorm, the filtering + sac a land for new cards is amazing, and this guy will see play for that fact alone.
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Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
If you were talking about mono-blue, not sure why you mentioned the blue-white Wall of Denial. And Flashfreeze saw lots of play at Worlds, even maindecked, so you probably shouldn't just scoff at it.
What you're describing is the absolute god draw from an aggro deck and, yeah, control is just going to lose those games. Boros has games where they get 5 guys on board by turn 4, but they also have many more games where they get 3.
I can't maindeck flashfreeze. Sideboard sure, but maindeck no way. That's taking up too much room.
to everyone complaining that the Brainstorm ability is not even as good as Ponder, please read thesecards. You've obviously never played them in tandem with Brainstorm, the filtering + sac a land for new cards is amazing, and this guy will see play for that fact alone.
I have the distinct feeling there are far too many people in this thread that have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
These are the same people whom I will RINSE for the new Jace at the Prerelease. Gogogo playset for jank mythic rares!!
Hi, I was talking about mono-blue Standard. I've repeated that several times over in my posts. Flashfreeze? Really? Lol. Essence Scatter can be played on Turn 2-3, that's about it. Again, they get out lots of creatures before that happens.
There are other decks beyond Boros Bushwhacker. Like the meta dominating Jund deck.
Yes, Ponder is amazing. I love Ponder. I play as many as I can. Brainstorm is just as amazing. Sure, Ponder gives you the choice to shuffle your library. But Brainstorm lets you take those dead draws that have been sitting in your hand for 2 turns and turn them into more useful things, such as a Ponder, or that wincon you've been waiting for. It gets through more cards faster, and Jace's first ability lets you put one of those useless cards on the bottom of the library and out of the way. Blue's ability to choose what it wants to draw when it wants to draw it is simply amazing, and Brainstorm does this best.
Also, keep in mind that Brainstorm gives the blue ascension a counter, whereas Ponder does not.
It also puts 3 counters on Lorescale Coatl. Another thing that Ponder fails at.
I want this card to work. I'm hoping for that 2 CMC kicker counterspell that's been rumored. I'm hoping for a lot of good stuff to come out of blue this expansion. I'm just expressing criticisms.
How about the onslaught of vampires and black instant/sorcery out there? Or how about white removal? If you're maindecking just to play jund decks, then you're playing a very narrow group of decks.
How about the onslaught of vampires and black instant/sorcery out there? Or how about white removal? If you're maindecking just to play jund decks, then you're playing a very narrow group of players.
Because vampires are in SO many top 8s, and are DOMINATING the metagame. /rolleyes
Jund are a 'narrow' group of players? You mean BY FAR the dominating force of current Standard? One of the most dominating forces in Magic Standard history?
We need more control, and maybe some protection from color creatures or something. The CMC of any blue card is way higher than other colors. If you gave me a 2/3 flyer with protect from black/red for 2UU I'd be pleased as punch.
No, no it's not. Come on, if your running New Jace you're playing some kind of control. You should be able to handle turn three easily enough to hit him down on turn four.
I assume you mean Wall of Denial into New Jace?
Anyone who thinks this new Jace is weak is - quite frankly - a fool.
yes, that is one scenario. But
(A) I'm not just talking about standard, I'm talking about running him in general.
(B) I agree, He's Blue's Powerhouse PW even without full confuimration on his abilities.
Do you even play Standard? People run 1 CMC cards with 2 power (or landfall + counters) all the time now.
By turn 4, they've got 4-5 creatures out with 2 power each and/or haste and/or landfall boost.
You can't counter if you don't have the mana. Let's assume they play first:
Which means you can't counter their first creature. You can't counter the second one. You can counter the 3rd. You can't counter the 4th if you want the wall. Their next turn: Let's see, how about Gatekeeper which gets rid of the wall...
You just can't make the argument that this card is amazing in monoblue, and even in W/U in Standard it's not mind-blowing by any means. Yeah, I'm not thrilled with it, but I'll probably find a way to fit it into a deck.
You act like monoblue doesn't have answers to creatures. Blue has a pretty convenient 0/4 one drop that can take on those 2/2s, and happens to have an efficient bounce for those decks that get out more than one creature per turn. Name another color that can so efficiently take care of so many threats at the same time, without getting rid of your own creatures?
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Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
The ability to see what your next top card is and have some control over what it could be is insane CA, if you use this ability and the top card is an Island, and you know the next card after that (say with Sage Owl's ability) and Card #2 is a Gamebreaker, this ability is insane period.
There's nothing this card couldn't do that isn't great, since this does ALL of the following in one card it save room for other threats.
Yes Ponder is absolutely Insane, But, Brainstorm is effectively a Ponder, with better advantageous, being able to draw the three and stick two cards (say Islands) that were already in your hand for 3 possible better threats now is absolutely Bonkers, I'm assuming you've never played Legacy/Vintage/Classic because cards like this could never be printed in today's standard.
Yes, this would be better if it was at the speed of an instant, but with this you could effectively save another Walker, one who could be a gamebreaker on it's own, that's "almost dead" or reuse it's ability twice all for the singular cost of recasting it.
It could also be used to singularly win you the game, alpha strike's may be extremely rare in control decks, because it's either an alpha that will win the game or they pretty much die, bouncing the biggest source of damage absorption to cement those last few points of damage in is insanely good.
This by Far, is the weakest strengths of the New Jace's True potential, because unless you have a way to absolutely mill those 7 last cards, (or however many they seem to have at the time, barring a 7 damage strike from a Runeflare Trap which would be insanely good if it was more likely to happen, but no...
This Jace will likely be used only for the first 3 abilities, except maybe in Mill Crab.dek, and thus is a Chase Mythic (sadly) because of the exact decks that will spawn from this things true power, (i've already built one my Clan calls
the Sea Stompy Control) However this ability is good if you're able to get it up there, but to be completely honest this isn't what this Jace is made for.
So far it's likely that his abilities are +2, and everything else is a minus counter. but this still is a great walker, just because he has so much versatility, even if you pay 2UU for a Brainstorm and he dies next turn. it was points for you, you got to hand fix, then saved yourself 2 more life...
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
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Yeah, I guess my beef with monoblue (one of my favorite colors to play) is that a lot of those cards are situational in that you have to have them in your hand while stuff's going on. Which means you have to run enough of them. Yeah, there's answers, but you have to remove answers to make room for others, etc.
With Red, White, Black, they can have mediocre draws and have a great advantage over blue. If you draw perfectly with blue, you're on par with the other colors.
Sigh.
Ignoring the fact that we might have a new U1 counterspell for turn 2, here are some other cards that stop your 1-3 drops dead. To name a few.
Do you even play Magic?
Hi, I was talking about mono-blue Standard. I've repeated that several times over in my posts. Flashfreeze? Really? Lol. Essence Scatter can be played on Turn 2-3, that's about it. Again, they get out lots of creatures before that happens.
If you were talking about mono-blue, not sure why you mentioned the blue-white Wall of Denial. And Flashfreeze saw lots of play at Worlds, even maindecked, so you probably shouldn't just scoff at it.
What you're describing is the absolute god draw from an aggro deck and, yeah, control is just going to lose those games. Boros has games where they get 5 guys on board by turn 4, but they also have many more games where they get 3.
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
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I can't maindeck flashfreeze. Sideboard sure, but maindeck no way. That's taking up too much room.
I have the distinct feeling there are far too many people in this thread that have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
These are the same people whom I will RINSE for the new Jace at the Prerelease. Gogogo playset for jank mythic rares!!
There are other decks beyond Boros Bushwhacker. Like the meta dominating Jund deck.
Also, keep in mind that Brainstorm gives the blue ascension a counter, whereas Ponder does not.
It also puts 3 counters on Lorescale Coatl. Another thing that Ponder fails at.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
Would be $20 each? what do you think?
Really? Interesting. You CLEARLY know what you're talking about.
/sarcasm off.
Too much space to counter all of these threats in Standard? How about these cards that destroy blue?
Shush now please.
$20 at the very LEAST. Get them while they're 'cheap'.
How about the onslaught of vampires and black instant/sorcery out there? Or how about white removal? If you're maindecking just to play jund decks, then you're playing a very narrow group of decks.
Lol, you put Great Sable Stag.
Pssssst. *whispers* it can't be countered.
I hate that stag.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
Because vampires are in SO many top 8s, and are DOMINATING the metagame. /rolleyes
Jund are a 'narrow' group of players? You mean BY FAR the dominating force of current Standard? One of the most dominating forces in Magic Standard history?
Seriously dude. Just stop.
Doh! :/
lol you went through and clicked on each one hoping he made a mistake?
RW Boros Bushwhacker RW
:):) New Player, so chill out if I've said anything stupid and you feel like flaming :):)