Yeah, you're right, I haven't used Brainstorm and had to check it again. Eh, I guess when you're talking about synergy with the first it's okay because you can get rid of any junk in your hand. Still, you're not getting to that all-important 10 or 12 counter finish you need if you're subtracting at all. I guess if you're playing him just for cycling sake, he's decent for that. Still find him a bit underpowered, low on starting counter and hard to defend against speed.
First ability - use after the second ability to put junk at the bottom of your library
Second ability - use to draw cards!
Third ability - use when necessary to slow the opponent down
Fourth ability - never going to happen
Plenty of planeswalkers are played without people thinking about their ultimates. Some decks that play Jace are fine just drawing cards.
Most of the time Elspeth is just plopping counters on, Ajani is not making a token, etc.
You don't look at a planeswalker and say 'ehh too hard to get to ultimate, it sucks'.
Brainstorm > Ponder. You are drawing three cards. You dig three deep either way, but with Jace, if you draw into garbage, you can push through it faster with the first ability.
This card's least useful ability is the last one, no matter what it does.
It is all about the first three.
It sounds like you don't spend enough time playing casual. I've a long track record of a Planeswalker's finale proving to be the game winning effect (even against a group of 6).
Correction: Star Wars taught us that George Lucas is a horrible, horrible person. And that WotC doesn't like doing licensed products for something they/Hasbro doesn't explicitly own.
you can't reason with these people, iRebel. They think every planeswalker should be able to shoot a blocker out their back end to be good.
If this PW's first ability was:
Jace tilts 45 degrees: Put a 1/1 flying faerie into the battlefield
then he'd be the best one ever made for sure. but that's not the case. He's still good, and not worth complaining about. I mean we just got a PW with 4 abilities and people are already whining about it from their basement thrones.
I like the abilities a lot. I guess now its just a matter of his loyalty counters requirement for the rest of those 3 abilities. I'm pretty sure that the WotC made it sure that you can play jace's final ability in turn 2 after playing him, just like 'most' of the other planeswalker.
One thing that actually annoys me is his starting loyalty counter. 3?? I'm sure Jace will ditch you as soon as he sees a lightning bolt in his face when he comes into play.
On the other irrelevant note, Is the WotC going to keep doing the slow spoiler for every upcoming set? I guess this time is much less painful than Sorin Markov's spoiler.
You do realise they can't lightning bolt Jace when he comes into play, right? The controller of Jace, being the active player, has priority when the stack is empty (IE, after Jace resolves).
So yeah, he doesn't die to bolt. You activate the +2, he gains two counters and the ability goes to the stack. They can bolt him then, but he does not die.
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
I'd like to point out that Security Detail and Angelic Blessing are also considered weak cards. Yet, repeatable and together, they are worth $30+. There is no reason whatsoever to think repeatable Opt, Brainstorm, Unsummon, and You Win the Game will make a bad planeswalker.
The only reason those two abilities are good is because they both give +1 loyalty to a planeswalker that starts with 4 loyalty.
Yeah, you're right, I haven't used Brainstorm and had to check it again. Eh, I guess when you're talking about synergy with the first it's okay because you can get rid of any junk in your hand. Still, you're not getting to that all-important 10 or 12 counter finish you need if you're subtracting at all.
Well, that is the point, the last ability is mostly for show. You aren't going to want to use it ever.
That is why there are four of them.
Elspeth's loyalty only matters when it comes to removing her, noone cares about her ultimate usually.
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Incredible versatile blue multitool/card advantage kit.
Multiple brainstorms with fetches/his +2 is awesome CA and card quality, unsummon is pretty meh (even at -1) but it's useful for enchanted creatures (limited only I gues), occasionally sniping a token, abusing cip abilities, stalling BS angel or letting your guys get in.
Without the ulti I want it. I'll probably try to pick up 4 at the prerelease caus even without seeing the rest of the set, I wager he'll be pricey.
Looking at the final text box, it doesn't look like it says, "Exile all cards . . . " Could it say "-X: Exile X cards . . . "? Then it's not an instant win ability, just a slower win ability.
Still hoping for 0 ability on the brainstorm, but I doubt it.
It sounds like you don't spend enough time playing casual. I've a long track record of a Planeswalker's finale proving to be the game winning effect (even against a group of 6).
I think you're missing the point -- the ultimate almost always wins you the game, regardless of which planeswalker it belongs to. It's the effects other effects that make or break the planeswalker as how awesome it actually is.
Looking at the final text box, it doesn't look like it says, "Exile all cards . . . " Could it say "-X: Exile X cards . . . "? Then it's not an instant win ability, just a slower win ability.
Still hoping for 0 ability on the brainstorm, but I doubt it.
But that doesn't make sense because they are shuffling their hand into their library...
Has anyone tried to translate the other language versions of the pieces?
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You do realise they can't lightning bolt Jace when he comes into play, right? The controller of Jace, being the active player, has priority when the stack is empty (IE, after Jace resolves).
So yeah, he doesn't die to bolt. You activate the +2, he gains two counters and the ability goes to the stack. They can bolt him then, but he does not die.
I've found that quite a few players do not understand priority rules, so it doesn't surprise me in the least that someone whined about the bolt thing. /facepalm although I can empathize, since I didn't get it until planeswalkers came out in Lorwyn.
I think you're missing the point -- the ultimate almost always wins you the game, regardless of which planeswalker it belongs to. It's the effects other effects that make or break the planeswalker as how awesome it actually is.
I understand that. I've been a staunch defender of a planeswalker's true potential since Llorwyn(sp?). It's just so disappointing to see that no one ever sees such a pricey ability as worth it. I bet my gourd that if Baneslayer Angel costed just one more mana, they'd say "eff her".
Correction: Star Wars taught us that George Lucas is a horrible, horrible person. And that WotC doesn't like doing licensed products for something they/Hasbro doesn't explicitly own.
For reference, I'm attaching the other language versions here. (There don't seem to be Russian, Portugese, or Chinese versions for whatever reason... can anyone else get these to work?)
I'm just saying, monoblue control has the disadvantage in standard. Blue just can't get the mana out fast enough right now. So, this card, while neat, isn't amazing. Who cares if you're cycling junk out of your hand if you don't have the speed to use any good cards? Also, I don't think this is a problem with Blue, but the insane speed of red and black these days.
It's a mid-game card for cycling, and an easy target (It DOES die to Burst Lightning, Lava Axe, Fireball, etc.) Meh.
You do realise they can't lightning bolt Jace when he comes into play, right? The controller of Jace, being the active player, has priority when the stack is empty (IE, after Jace resolves).
So yeah, he doesn't die to bolt. You activate the +2, he gains two counters and the ability goes to the stack. They can bolt him then, but he does not die.
Are you sure about that? I thought you still get the ability, but he is dead. I was talking to a (actually mutual) friend, and the conclusion was that...
- Play PW, don't pass priority.
- Use PW's ability.
- Opponent uses Lightning Bolt.
Now the stack resolves.
- Lightning Bolt hits PW, bringing it's loyalty counters to 0.
- PW's ability is still on the stack, so that happens regardless of the PW being alive or not.
So, I'm not sure who is right. I guess I'm seeking clarification.
But yeah, new Jace looks really nice, however I'm kinda sad. In my current deck, Beleren is my power house drawing engine. I guess this guy can replace, but he won't have the same drawing power.
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For reference, I'm attaching the other language versions here. (There don't seem to be Russian, Portugese, or Chinese versions for whatever reason... can anyone else get these to work?)
Yeah, unsummon is for sure, but I have no idea what the last ability says in the other languages. :X
Uhh, yes can't die to bolt, because activating the ability is what puts the counters on, not the resolution of the ability. It is the cost of the action, so for the action to be put on the stack, you must 'pay' the cost.
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One thing that actually annoys me is his starting loyalty counter. 3?? I'm sure Jace will ditch you as soon as he sees a lightning bolt in his face when he comes into play.
Actually with his starting loyalty at 3 he's out of bolt range. Use his +2 right away and bingo, he's at 5 before your opponent can bolt him.
As for his abilities... the cool kids play blue, why don't you?
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Are you sure about that? I thought you still get the ability, but he is dead. I was talking to a (actually mutual) friend, and the conclusion was that...
- Play PW, don't pass priority.
- Use PW's ability.
- Opponent uses Lightning Bolt.
Now the stack resolves.
- Lightning Bolt hits PW, bringing it's loyalty counters to 0.
- PW's ability is still on the stack, so that happens regardless of the PW being alive or not.
So, I'm not sure who is right. I guess I'm seeking clarification.
But yeah, new Jace looks really nice, however I'm kinda sad. In my current deck, Beleren is my power house drawing engine. I guess this guy can replace, but he won't have the same drawing power.
putting loyalty counters on him is part of the cost....
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Are you sure about that? I thought you still get the ability, but he is dead. I was talking to a (actually mutual) friend, and the conclusion was that...
- Play PW, don't pass priority.
- Use PW's ability.
- Opponent uses Lightning Bolt.
Now the stack resolves.
- Lightning Bolt hits PW, bringing it's loyalty counters to 0.
- PW's ability is still on the stack, so that happens regardless of the PW being alive or not.
So, I'm not sure who is right. I guess I'm seeking clarification.
Adding counters is a cost, which can't be responded to. By the time he gets Bolted, he's already at 5 counters and Bolt will just knock him down to 2.
Oh shi.... guys, I read the portion of the Spanish one. At the last part in the upper row.. it literally says "Library from the" ..... I know my Spanish, I was born in South America.
Correction: Star Wars taught us that George Lucas is a horrible, horrible person. And that WotC doesn't like doing licensed products for something they/Hasbro doesn't explicitly own.
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It sounds like you don't spend enough time playing casual. I've a long track record of a Planeswalker's finale proving to be the game winning effect (even against a group of 6).
If this PW's first ability was:
Jace tilts 45 degrees: Put a 1/1 flying faerie into the battlefield
then he'd be the best one ever made for sure. but that's not the case. He's still good, and not worth complaining about. I mean we just got a PW with 4 abilities and people are already whining about it from their basement thrones.
You do realise they can't lightning bolt Jace when he comes into play, right? The controller of Jace, being the active player, has priority when the stack is empty (IE, after Jace resolves).
So yeah, he doesn't die to bolt. You activate the +2, he gains two counters and the ability goes to the stack. They can bolt him then, but he does not die.
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The only reason those two abilities are good is because they both give +1 loyalty to a planeswalker that starts with 4 loyalty.
Well, that is the point, the last ability is mostly for show. You aren't going to want to use it ever.
That is why there are four of them.
Elspeth's loyalty only matters when it comes to removing her, noone cares about her ultimate usually.
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Incredible versatile blue multitool/card advantage kit.
Multiple brainstorms with fetches/his +2 is awesome CA and card quality, unsummon is pretty meh (even at -1) but it's useful for enchanted creatures (limited only I gues), occasionally sniping a token, abusing cip abilities, stalling BS angel or letting your guys get in.
Without the ulti I want it. I'll probably try to pick up 4 at the prerelease caus even without seeing the rest of the set, I wager he'll be pricey.
Still hoping for 0 ability on the brainstorm, but I doubt it.
I think you're missing the point -- the ultimate almost always wins you the game, regardless of which planeswalker it belongs to. It's the effects other effects that make or break the planeswalker as how awesome it actually is.
But that doesn't make sense because they are shuffling their hand into their library...
Has anyone tried to translate the other language versions of the pieces?
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Elspeth is infuriatingly hard to remove with damage, seeing as she effectively starts with 5 loyalty the turn she comes down.
Turn 4; Jace.
Ulti ability; x=0, discard your hand kthx.
Hah! Derp.
I've found that quite a few players do not understand priority rules, so it doesn't surprise me in the least that someone whined about the bolt thing. /facepalm although I can empathize, since I didn't get it until planeswalkers came out in Lorwyn.
I understand that. I've been a staunch defender of a planeswalker's true potential since Llorwyn(sp?). It's just so disappointing to see that no one ever sees such a pricey ability as worth it. I bet my gourd that if Baneslayer Angel costed just one more mana, they'd say "eff her".
Is it bad that the first thing I thought when I saw the unsummon ability is bloodbraid elf every turn?
It's a mid-game card for cycling, and an easy target (It DOES die to Burst Lightning, Lava Axe, Fireball, etc.) Meh.
Are you sure about that? I thought you still get the ability, but he is dead. I was talking to a (actually mutual) friend, and the conclusion was that...
- Play PW, don't pass priority.
- Use PW's ability.
- Opponent uses Lightning Bolt.
Now the stack resolves.
- Lightning Bolt hits PW, bringing it's loyalty counters to 0.
- PW's ability is still on the stack, so that happens regardless of the PW being alive or not.
So, I'm not sure who is right. I guess I'm seeking clarification.
But yeah, new Jace looks really nice, however I'm kinda sad. In my current deck, Beleren is my power house drawing engine. I guess this guy can replace, but he won't have the same drawing power.
__
Yeah, unsummon is for sure, but I have no idea what the last ability says in the other languages. :X
Uhh, yes can't die to bolt, because activating the ability is what puts the counters on, not the resolution of the ability. It is the cost of the action, so for the action to be put on the stack, you must 'pay' the cost.
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Actually with his starting loyalty at 3 he's out of bolt range. Use his +2 right away and bingo, he's at 5 before your opponent can bolt him.
As for his abilities...
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putting loyalty counters on him is part of the cost....
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Adding counters is a cost, which can't be responded to. By the time he gets Bolted, he's already at 5 counters and Bolt will just knock him down to 2.