Use Jace to cascade into a Baneslayer Angel or live the dream and cascade into a Deny Reality, Kathari Remnant, and then an Esper Charm... yeah fine, it will never happen, but its a cool idea!
I'm liking the idea of this guy in a cascading Esper deck.
This is really messed up. Free brainstorm's every single turn.....Did I mention there are fetches in standard too which makes brainstorm even better ?
Yes, but if you Brainstorm with him every turn he's easily killable at 3. Even if you Fateseal'd, you're darn tootin they are swinging at him with their dudes next turn.
-0 and draw your pick of three cards is better than -1 draw a card.
It's even better than drawing your pick of 3 cards since, if all 3 new cards are amazing, you can get rid of 2 craptasitic cards from you hand and keep em all.
Yes, but if you Brainstorm with him every turn he's easily killable at 3. Even if you Fateseal'd, you're darn tootin they are swinging at him with their dudes next turn.
And you would be an idiot for casting him if they had 5 power worth of dudes on the board and you had no way to deal with them.. on top of that Jace himself can deal with some of it for you.
They will be used in completely different decks and do completely different things.
A friend of mine had a very good point: the new jace let's blue play the bloodbraid elf without cascading into a counter. That sounds pretty relevant (if we somehow overcome the problem of a deck providing RG and UU)
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I know the perfect guy for the third faction:
"When you show up to the Mirrodin Besieged Prerelease, you'll be asked to choose a faction: Mirran, Phyrexian, or Jaded A-Hole" Aaron Forsythe, on Twitter
Everything changes, nothing remains without a change - Buddha
New Jace is not a bad planeswalker by any means, and I'll certainly be picking up a playset, but he isn't some godlike beacon for blue, which is still crying for some powerful instant speed draw.
It's a good thing you're wrong about this part, because blue is never going to get any ever again.
Luckily, cards like this Jace provide many of the strategic benefits of instant speed card draw (i.e. the ability to gain on card quantity and quality without investing main-phase mana every time you do it), packaged in a way that still forces players to engage with the main phase to achieve them. It's a strong and skill-testing card that should see plenty of play in blue control-oriented decks.
Overall, I think Jace is a very powerful card, but its overall usefulness will be determined by the context in which it's played.
I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis.
BTW, this is the kind of control card I really like to see. Being a PW ensures a level of interactivity, and its ability design makes the card skill-testing at a high level. I'll be very interested to see if a UG or UB deck emerges to utilize this guy.
A reminder, the Cali store opens at noon Pacific Time; that's around 3 o'clock Eastern Time, 10 o'clock Hawaiian. (A cookie to whoever get's that reference.)
Give it about 45 minutes to an hour for the last piece.
Rocket Power reference??
But this seems to be amazing... U/G/r Grow Ramp might be viable... Lorescale, Scute Mob, Rampaging Baloth, etc...
I still don't really see a reason for it, it would be a fun combo but really if you're having luck keeping jace out it won't matter too much what else is being played with him. I'd expect more to see just standard control and manlands.
A friend of mine had a very good point: the new jace let's blue play the bloodbraid elf without cascading into a counter. That sounds pretty relevant (if we somehow overcome the problem of a deck providing RG and UU)
Bloodbraid elf's power isn't letting you cascade into cards that would have been in your hand anyway and it's certainly not something you play with counterspells that you could very rarely and very situationally stack a few cards of your deck to avoid cascading into.
A friend of mine had a very good point: the new jace let's blue play the bloodbraid elf without cascading into a counter. That sounds pretty relevant (if we somehow overcome the problem of a deck providing RG and UU)
Or it allows a Bloodbraid cascade every turn, as mentioned earlier in the thread. This card is begging to be teamed up with cascade.
But this seems to be amazing... U/G/r Grow Ramp might be viable... Lorescale, Scute Mob, Rampaging Baloth, etc...
Not quite what I was thinking of. You're in the right media though (TV not cartoons). I'm not sure if it was in Rocket Power or not though... I don't really remember that show.
as for interesting decks this could be played in, RGU Pyromancer's Accension ramp? American (RWU) Control? Controlled Burn (R/U)? This should be interesting...
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Jace deck seem pretty good to. You can use the trap to get a Djinn (or better) at EOT and then use Jace to wish for whatever you want. Early game your playing snakes and brainstorming them into 6/6's. Does not seem bad either.
-0 and draw your pick of three cards is better than -1 draw a card.
reading the post to actually know what is being discussed is better than glancing over it and hastily replying.
in a deck that is trying to mill out the opponent's library (i.e. turbofog/jacerator, what we had been talking about for 3 pages or so), +2: each player draws a card is clearly better than a personal brainstorm.
if you're playing JB's -1: target player draws a card in Jacerator, you need to play a different deck.
It's a good thing you're wrong about this part, because blue is never going to get any ever again.
Esper Charm? Seems like they are just saving instant speed draw for difficult-to-play spells. With this Leatherback baloth as spoiled I don't doubt that it wouldn't be impossible to see a UUU instant speed drawer from this set. They definitely are limiting it though.
BTW, this is the kind of control card I really like to see. Being a PW ensures a level of interactivity, and its ability design makes the card skill-testing at a high level. I'll be very interested to see if a UG or UB deck emerges to utilize this guy.
I totally agree with you. More skill-testing cards are exactly what I would like to see in the format...this sort of card is definitely > than Bloodbraid Elf in the 4 drop slot for my purposes. First thing that came to my mind when I saw it is this UG deck that has been rolling around in my head ever since Cobra got spoiled...we just have to get a few more key elements to make it a reality.
[-1]: Return target creature to its owner's hand.
only playable ability and at 4 mana? rofl? Control please
[-0]: Draw 3 cards, then put 2 cards from your hand on the top of your library in any order. great ability but is it good enough. Like a lot of others say control will play this ability
his ultimate -12 isnt even remotely close as jace belerens -10 which is game over when you play jacerator and the -12 ultimate makes them have cards in their library still.
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My Current Decks
Standard
Turbo Flare Green Blue Eldrazi Blue White Control
Its really sad to see that is the only deck color where you can't play Mono
BTW, this is the kind of control card I really like to see. Being a PW ensures a level of interactivity, and its ability design makes the card skill-testing at a high level. I'll be very interested to see if a UG or UB deck emerges to utilize this guy.
I wanted to start working on one, so here it is: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=206505. Definitely appreciate some feedback/thoughts/criticism. I'll even take insults, so long as they're moderately helpful :p.
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There are two types of people in this world: people who think that countermagic is the most powerful effect in the game and people who aren't morons.
My color is Purple. I value diversity, smashed color pies and obsolete Inquest articles. At my best, I can redefine MTG in a new and wonderful way. At my worst, I can end up as an Unhinged joke. My symbol is not defined. My enemies are 5 old and bureaucratic angry colors.
Ok then, I am impressed with the new Jace. -0 for Brainstorm is very nice. I looks like I'll be building another PW theme deck. UG control with Lorescale Coatl sounds fun sounds fun. Runeflare Trap might actually become a SB card if New Jace makes Constructed.
[-1]: Return target creature to its owner's hand.
only playable ability and at 4 mana? rofl? Control please
[-0]: Draw 3 cards, then put 2 cards from your hand on the top of your library in any order. great ability but is it good enough. Like a lot of others say control will play this ability
his ultimate -12 isnt even remotely close as jace belerens -10 which is game over when you play jacerator and the -12 ultimate makes them have cards in their library still.
[-1]: Return target creature to its owner's hand.
only playable ability and at 4 mana? rofl? Control please
[-0]: Draw 3 cards, then put 2 cards from your hand on the top of your library in any order. great ability but is it good enough. Like a lot of others say control will play this ability
his ultimate -12 isnt even remotely close as jace belerens -10 which is game over when you play jacerator and the -12 ultimate makes them have cards in their library still.
not even gonna comment on the first part...
as far as the ultimate is concerned, it only leaves them with a library if they have cards in hand. and unless you are playing blue, good luck having many cards in hand by the time this ultimate would ever go off.
I think this Jace has a lot of potential; there is synergy with every color. Black discard lets you thin their hand while keeping potential threats from being drawn by way of +2: Fateseal. Red likes to throw Goblin Guide at their head so Jace can stand back and make sure they never draw anything other than land via the same +2: Fateseal. Green mixes it up with the Coatl getting huge with a helpful brainstorm. And White throws down largewalls to stand in the way of an otherwise stampeding army. I can't wait to see what people do with him!
I was one of the people saying Lotus Cobra was overhyped when it was spoiled, this guy, however, will be good and be splashed for it. Just keep in mind Everyone has mainboard answers for it (Jund-Pulse, Vampires-Hexmage, Esper-Counters (plus their own), Bant-O-Ring, Eldrazi Green-FlyingMonkeys)
Use Jace to cascade into a Baneslayer Angel or live the dream and cascade into a Deny Reality, Kathari Remnant, and then an Esper Charm... yeah fine, it will never happen, but its a cool idea!
I'm liking the idea of this guy in a cascading Esper deck.
Yes, but if you Brainstorm with him every turn he's easily killable at 3. Even if you Fateseal'd, you're darn tootin they are swinging at him with their dudes next turn.
It's even better than drawing your pick of 3 cards since, if all 3 new cards are amazing, you can get rid of 2 craptasitic cards from you hand and keep em all.
They will be used in completely different decks and do completely different things.
And you would be an idiot for casting him if they had 5 power worth of dudes on the board and you had no way to deal with them.. on top of that Jace himself can deal with some of it for you.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
Not 100% sure but the deck that plays this Jace could very well also want 1 of Djinn of Wishes
A friend of mine had a very good point: the new jace let's blue play the bloodbraid elf without cascading into a counter. That sounds pretty relevant (if we somehow overcome the problem of a deck providing R G and UU)
"When you show up to the Mirrodin Besieged Prerelease, you'll be asked to choose a faction: Mirran, Phyrexian, or Jaded A-Hole" Aaron Forsythe, on Twitter
Everything changes, nothing remains without a change - Buddha
It's a good thing you're wrong about this part, because blue is never going to get any ever again.
Luckily, cards like this Jace provide many of the strategic benefits of instant speed card draw (i.e. the ability to gain on card quantity and quality without investing main-phase mana every time you do it), packaged in a way that still forces players to engage with the main phase to achieve them. It's a strong and skill-testing card that should see plenty of play in blue control-oriented decks.
I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis.
BTW, this is the kind of control card I really like to see. Being a PW ensures a level of interactivity, and its ability design makes the card skill-testing at a high level. I'll be very interested to see if a UG or UB deck emerges to utilize this guy.
Rocket Power reference??
But this seems to be amazing... U/G/r Grow Ramp might be viable... Lorescale, Scute Mob, Rampaging Baloth, etc...
I still don't really see a reason for it, it would be a fun combo but really if you're having luck keeping jace out it won't matter too much what else is being played with him. I'd expect more to see just standard control and manlands.
Bloodbraid elf's power isn't letting you cascade into cards that would have been in your hand anyway and it's certainly not something you play with counterspells that you could very rarely and very situationally stack a few cards of your deck to avoid cascading into.
Doublepost Merged and Warned
Or it allows a Bloodbraid cascade every turn, as mentioned earlier in the thread. This card is begging to be teamed up with cascade.
Not quite what I was thinking of. You're in the right media though (TV not cartoons). I'm not sure if it was in Rocket Power or not though... I don't really remember that show.
as for interesting decks this could be played in, RGU Pyromancer's Accension ramp? American (RWU) Control? Controlled Burn (R/U)? This should be interesting...
MTG Rules Advisor since 08-21-2009Certification Lapsed. Studying to recertify.Thanks to DarkNightCaviler of Heroes of the Plane Studios for this signature pic!
WRG Naya Zoo (midrange build)WRG
Lorescale Coatl
Djinn of Wishes
Jace deck seem pretty good to. You can use the trap to get a Djinn (or better) at EOT and then use Jace to wish for whatever you want. Early game your playing snakes and brainstorming them into 6/6's. Does not seem bad either.
reading the post to actually know what is being discussed is better than glancing over it and hastily replying.
in a deck that is trying to mill out the opponent's library (i.e. turbofog/jacerator, what we had been talking about for 3 pages or so), +2: each player draws a card is clearly better than a personal brainstorm.
if you're playing JB's -1: target player draws a card in Jacerator, you need to play a different deck.
Esper Charm? Seems like they are just saving instant speed draw for difficult-to-play spells. With this Leatherback baloth as spoiled I don't doubt that it wouldn't be impossible to see a UUU instant speed drawer from this set. They definitely are limiting it though.
I totally agree with you. More skill-testing cards are exactly what I would like to see in the format...this sort of card is definitely > than Bloodbraid Elf in the 4 drop slot for my purposes. First thing that came to my mind when I saw it is this UG deck that has been rolling around in my head ever since Cobra got spoiled...we just have to get a few more key elements to make it a reality.
[-1]: Return target creature to its owner's hand.
only playable ability and at 4 mana? rofl? Control please
[-0]: Draw 3 cards, then put 2 cards from your hand on the top of your library in any order. great ability but is it good enough. Like a lot of others say control will play this ability
his ultimate -12 isnt even remotely close as jace belerens -10 which is game over when you play jacerator and the -12 ultimate makes them have cards in their library still.
I wanted to start working on one, so here it is: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=206505. Definitely appreciate some feedback/thoughts/criticism. I'll even take insults, so long as they're moderately helpful :p.
The only card he combos with in Standard is a turn three Wall of Denial hitting the field before him.
Obvious troll
Currently playing in standard:
WWWMono white supermacyWWW
WRGThe millenaya falconWRG
Currently playing in extended:
WUXMartyr FoundryWUX
Currently working on:
WUBRGA fully powered 8 man cubeWUBRG
as far as the ultimate is concerned, it only leaves them with a library if they have cards in hand. and unless you are playing blue, good luck having many cards in hand by the time this ultimate would ever go off.
Bravo, Wizards, you are truly awesome.
Use it against Jund.
I fateseal a Lightning Bolt, the draw is a Maelstrom Pulse.
All they need now is a good-to-very-good counterspell.