Hey everyone. I have been working a ton on trying to decipher this. As I cannot tell you the loyalty counters, I am pretty certain about most of the effects. The last one is a bit skeptical but possible.
My friend has been learning Japanese for a while and has tried to decipher this card for me for the past day.
So far, it seems to go:
+2: Look at the top card of target player's library. You may put that card on the bottom of that player's library.
+/- x: Draw 3 cards, then put 2 cards from your hand on top of your library in any order.
+/- x: Return up to 1 target creature to it's owner's hand.
-x: Exile target player's library, then shuffle that player's hand into his or her library.
The last one is missing some information just the way the picture is cut but that is what she determined it most likely meant looking at the context of the card and the translation available.
I also compared this japanese version of jace to a japanese brainstorm and unsummon.
Those were unfortunately the best copies of the card I could find. If someone can find a better comparison picture, you can post yours instead. Good luck to everyone trying to figure Jace out.
I am uncertain as to the debate about the +/-/0 of the third ability but if it was 0, I would think this would be okay because it is unprecedented so it could be placed wherever Wizards wants. However, I think that the ability helps in more than just providing a scape goat to the ultimate. I believe it can potentially be the difference between winning and losing. I think it is a minus ability though for that reason.
prolly gonna take longer than that. they don't automatically give us the pieces at midnight est. they have to be "found", and most stores in the U.S. don't open for at least another 6 hours after that. i guess we could hope both pieces are on the other side of the world, but i think at least one piece each day has been in the US so far.
I believe he's talking about this page where all the pieces are put up. The currently Japanese-only piece should be put up in English.
I really really like the idea of unsummon on jace. People were complaining he'd have no way to protect himself from creatures, but an unsummon ability would really change that.
Just found this on gatheringmagic.com it's their translation of the card...
Ok just so everyone knows this is their interperetation of thier translation I say this because their translation means that the third ability is not unsummon though it says owner's hands in english. But the second ability is confirmed as brainstorm.
[+2] : Look at the top card of target player’s library. You may put that card on the bottom of that player’s library.
[-1] : Draw three cards, then put two cards from your hand on top of your library in any order.
[-?] : [Control?] target creature
[-?] : target player ~ all cards ~ hand(s) your
{?}
You understand that other sites are posting information that is from very early in the discussion of the pieces, right?
We posted things like that RIGHT when the pieces were found.
We have gotten much further along since.
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if u look at the japanese writing u can see the 2nd ability is -3 and the 3rd ability is -1. just thought someone should point that out
No, what your seeing is the "3" from "Draw 3 cards" for the brainstorm effect, and I'm assuming that because of Japanese grammar the "1" in the 3rd ability is something along the lines of "return 1 target creature".
Could anyone share what the Japanese fragment literally says?
Ignore the difference between English and Japanese word order. Transliterate as faithfully as possible. I'm familiar with the structure of Japanese grammar, and would like to understand the confidence in the speculation about the second and third abilities.
I see the '3' in the second ability.
But I also see a '1' in the third ability... which doesn't make sense to me on an unsummon effect.
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Could anyone share what the Japanese fragment literally says?
Ignore the difference between English and Japanese word order. Transliterate as faithfully as possible. I'm familiar with the structure of Japanese grammar, and would like to understand the confidence in the speculation about the second and third abilities.
I see the '3' in the second ability.
But I also see a '1' in the third ability... which doesn't make sense to me on an unsummon effect.
well, if you look closely at the Japanese unsumon posted above you can see it on that too
Could anyone share what the Japanese fragment literally says?
Ignore the difference between English and Japanese word order. Transliterate as faithfully as possible. I'm familiar with the structure of Japanese grammar, and would like to understand the confidence in the speculation about the second and third abilities.
I see the '3' in the second ability.
But I also see a '1' in the third ability... which doesn't make sense to me on an unsummon effect.
Waste of effort to translate further for now.
We will have the card piece, in all printed languages, in less than an hour.
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if u look at the japanese writing u can see the 2nd ability is -3 and the 3rd ability is -1. just thought someone should point that out
Except, you know, it doesn't. There's nothing in the Japanese text that even remotely says this.
The literal translation of "カードを 3" is "Cards 3."
And if that isn't enough to sway you, keep in mind that every single PW in history follows an abilities template -- plus abilities first, followed by minus abilities that increase in loyalty counters removed.
So if it were -3 brainstorm, -1 unsummon, it would break said template. We've already proven that, well, isn't going to happen.
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EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Except, you know, it doesn't. There's nothing in the Japanese text that even remotely says this.
The literal translation of "カードを 3" is "Cards 3."
And if that isn't enough to sway you, keep in mind that every single PW in history follows an abilities template -- plus abilities first, followed by minus abilities that increase in loyalty counters removed.
So if it were -3 brainstorm, -1 unsummon, it would break said template. We've already proven that, well, isn't going to happen.
Exactly.
It is a Japanese character...I think, because it is also on Japanese Jace Beleren.
Edit:
Since the two people who posted after me apparently didn't see my post...
Actually we have only proven that it hasn't happened yet. WotC has shown a remarkable willingness to make what seems to be surprising about-faces in their patterns.
edit: @urzassedatives: I'm not saying that the pattern will change, just that it seems foolish to say a pattern will never be broken when WotC is constantly doing so.
Except, you know, it doesn't. There's nothing in the Japanese text that even remotely says this.
The literal translation of "カードを 3" is "Cards 3."
And if that isn't enough to sway you, keep in mind that every single PW in history follows an abilities template -- plus abilities first, followed by minus abilities that increase in loyalty counters removed.
So if it were -3 brainstorm, -1 unsummon, it would break said template. We've already proven that, well, isn't going to happen.
Well, to be fair, the template also says that a Planeswalker should only have 3 abilities..
Well, to be fair, the template also says that a Planeswalker should only have 3 abilities..
Well not really, there would be no reason to change the template of the ability costs on a Planeswalker card other than to maybe fool us during spoiler/rumor season. For example, P/T is the template not what P is or what T is.
Well not really, there would be no reason to change the template of the ability costs on a Planeswalker card other than to maybe fool us during spoiler/rumor season. For example, P/T is the template not what P is or what T is.
I wasn't saying there was a reason for them to change the order (nor do I expect that they have, I don't see any reason for them to do so either), I was just saying that "It goes against the template" isn't necessarily a valid arguement, given what we've seen of the card.
I wasn't saying there was a reason for them to change the order (nor do I expect that they have, I don't see any reason for them to do so either), I was just saying that "It goes against the template" isn't necessarily a valid arguement, given what we've seen of the card.
Oh I see, I guess I was just arguing semantics then (and am probably on the wrong side of the argument too) in that I didn't consider having three abilities as a template. I kind of view the MTG template like MLA or Turabian-style footnoting/endnoting rules.
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My friend has been learning Japanese for a while and has tried to decipher this card for me for the past day.
So far, it seems to go:
+2: Look at the top card of target player's library. You may put that card on the bottom of that player's library.
+/- x: Draw 3 cards, then put 2 cards from your hand on top of your library in any order.
+/- x: Return up to 1 target creature to it's owner's hand.
-x: Exile target player's library, then shuffle that player's hand into his or her library.
The last one is missing some information just the way the picture is cut but that is what she determined it most likely meant looking at the context of the card and the translation available.
I also compared this japanese version of jace to a japanese brainstorm and unsummon.
Those were unfortunately the best copies of the card I could find. If someone can find a better comparison picture, you can post yours instead.
I am uncertain as to the debate about the +/-/0 of the third ability but if it was 0, I would think this would be okay because it is unprecedented so it could be placed wherever Wizards wants. However, I think that the ability helps in more than just providing a scape goat to the ultimate. I believe it can potentially be the difference between winning and losing. I think it is a minus ability though for that reason.
I believe he's talking about this page where all the pieces are put up. The currently Japanese-only piece should be put up in English.
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WUXMartyr FoundryWUX
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WUBRGA fully powered 8 man cubeWUBRG
You understand that other sites are posting information that is from very early in the discussion of the pieces, right?
We posted things like that RIGHT when the pieces were found.
We have gotten much further along since.
Twitter
No, what your seeing is the "3" from "Draw 3 cards" for the brainstorm effect, and I'm assuming that because of Japanese grammar the "1" in the 3rd ability is something along the lines of "return 1 target creature".
Ignore the difference between English and Japanese word order. Transliterate as faithfully as possible. I'm familiar with the structure of Japanese grammar, and would like to understand the confidence in the speculation about the second and third abilities.
I see the '3' in the second ability.
But I also see a '1' in the third ability... which doesn't make sense to me on an unsummon effect.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
well, if you look closely at the Japanese unsumon posted above you can see it on that too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpgjnU7C3Aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7kkZixasc
Waste of effort to translate further for now.
We will have the card piece, in all printed languages, in less than an hour.
Twitter
Except, you know, it doesn't. There's nothing in the Japanese text that even remotely says this.
The literal translation of "カードを 3" is "Cards 3."
And if that isn't enough to sway you, keep in mind that every single PW in history follows an abilities template -- plus abilities first, followed by minus abilities that increase in loyalty counters removed.
So if it were -3 brainstorm, -1 unsummon, it would break said template. We've already proven that, well, isn't going to happen.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
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Exactly.
It is a Japanese character...I think, because it is also on Japanese Jace Beleren.
Edit:
Since the two people who posted after me apparently didn't see my post...
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edit: @urzassedatives: I'm not saying that the pattern will change, just that it seems foolish to say a pattern will never be broken when WotC is constantly doing so.
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Well, to be fair, the template also says that a Planeswalker should only have 3 abilities..
Well not really, there would be no reason to change the template of the ability costs on a Planeswalker card other than to maybe fool us during spoiler/rumor season. For example, P/T is the template not what P is or what T is.
I wasn't saying there was a reason for them to change the order (nor do I expect that they have, I don't see any reason for them to do so either), I was just saying that "It goes against the template" isn't necessarily a valid arguement, given what we've seen of the card.
Oh I see, I guess I was just arguing semantics then (and am probably on the wrong side of the argument too) in that I didn't consider having three abilities as a template. I kind of view the MTG template like MLA or Turabian-style footnoting/endnoting rules.