You're getting more than the purchase price if you're a new player. Short of new cards there isn't anything I want in the deck. It's not for me, it's not for you. They just printed a masters set a few months ago. The core set was very lacking in reprints. It's whatever though. They haven't changed their formula. People are still going to buy these decks. If anything it seems like they included a lot more rares. Even rare dual lands.
The core set was lacking in reprints... what?
We got leyline of the void, sanctity and anticipation that were all $20+ cards and see plenty of play. Grafdiggers cage was $8 and is a staple in older formats. Steel overseer was $16 and sees play in multiple formats. Lotus field is a functional reprint of lotus vale and there were several other cards that were made even cheaper like the temples and rule of law. If you wanted a playset of leyline of the void and sanctity along with 1 anticipation for commander 4 months ago you'd pay $320, now it's 'just' $92. A $228 price cut seems more than reasonable for reprint value.
Seriously, there are times I don't know what would happen if Magic players were given nothing to whine about. Magic is releasing ludicrous amount of products in a year. Don't like these? Wait a few months and see what the Brawl decks look like and if there's anything you want out of those. At this point, when there's a product I don't really want I'm almost grateful because it means it's one less thing I have to worry about where my Magic budget is concerned.
The level of entitlement from some folks is outrageous.
Seriously, I don't know what would happen if there weren't people looking to whine about other people whining.
The level of entitlement from some folks is outrageous.
Gavin Verhey HIMSELF admitted last years decks were underwhelming in terms of reprints, so if a Wizards employee ADMITS a mediocre product, why can’t you? You confuse “entitlement” with REASONABLE expectations to not receive yet another mediocre product. Gavin Verhey himself also acknowledged the players complaints were heard and indicated that would be remedied this year, and so far, we’ve not seen ANY evidence of this, although there’s still quite a bit to reveal.
You say people are entitled. I say, have higher standards and stop settling.
I think you're barking at the wrong guy. I agree with you 100%. These ancillary products should be used to lower the price of overpriced staples of the format. The guy I was responding to was the one crying about people's negative reactions.
Seriously, there are times I don't know what would happen if Magic players were given nothing to whine about. Magic is releasing ludicrous amount of products in a year. Don't like these? Wait a few months and see what the Brawl decks look like and if there's anything you want out of those. At this point, when there's a product I don't really want I'm almost grateful because it means it's one less thing I have to worry about where my Magic budget is concerned.
The level of entitlement from some folks is outrageous.
Gavin Verhey HIMSELF admitted last years decks were underwhelming in terms of reprints, so if a Wizards employee ADMITS a mediocre product, why can’t you? You confuse “entitlement” with REASONABLE expectations to not receive yet another mediocre product. Gavin Verhey himself also acknowledged the players complaints were heard and indicated that would be remedied this year, and so far, we’ve not seen ANY evidence of this through the first two decks, although there’s still quite a bit to reveal. I for one don’t like it when someone tells me one thing and does another, especially when it comes to addressing concerns.
There are plenty of midprice staples that could use more printings. NO ONE IS ASKING FOR, OR EXPECTING $25 or $30 singles. There are however tons of staples in the $7-$12 range that people would love to see.
Now, not all these cards may fit within the themes we’re getting, but a great many of them are very neutral in their applications. And, maybe we’ll still see some of these, particularly Anointed Procession and Parallel Lives when we get to that deck.
You say people are entitled. I say, have higher standards and stop settling.
I really wish I had your level of energy to get worked up over this. I have real problems to deal with. If I'm not interested in a product I don't buy it. Nobody's putting a gun to my head. As to this point about people not asking for super expensive reprints I've seen people on this very forum demanding things like Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Teferi, Temporal Archmage and Oracle of Mul Daya, shock and fetchlands etc. All of which disprove that point.
Regardless, the OP asked if this was a bust after a single deck got spoiled and I noted we don't have enough information for that determination. Lo and behold, more interesting stuff is already coming down the pipeline.
And for me, this definitely isn't a bust, just doesn't seem aimed at me.
What’s with people wanting expensive reprints in precons? I buy these to get new cards and ready-to-play decks in case I have new players to teach. So far the decks have served such purposes.
What’s with people wanting expensive reprints in precons? I buy these to get new cards and ready-to-play decks in case I have new players to teach. So far the decks have served such purposes.
Seriously, there are times I don't know what would happen if Magic players were given nothing to whine about. Magic is releasing ludicrous amount of products in a year. Don't like these? Wait a few months and see what the Brawl decks look like and if there's anything you want out of those. At this point, when there's a product I don't really want I'm almost grateful because it means it's one less thing I have to worry about where my Magic budget is concerned.
The level of entitlement from some folks is outrageous.
Gavin Verhey HIMSELF admitted last years decks were underwhelming in terms of reprints, so if a Wizards employee ADMITS a mediocre product, why can’t you? You confuse “entitlement” with REASONABLE expectations to not receive yet another mediocre product. Gavin Verhey himself also acknowledged the players complaints were heard and indicated that would be remedied this year, and so far, we’ve not seen ANY evidence of this through the first two decks, although there’s still quite a bit to reveal. I for one don’t like it when someone tells me one thing and does another, especially when it comes to addressing concerns.
There are plenty of midprice staples that could use more printings. NO ONE IS ASKING FOR, OR EXPECTING $25 or $30 singles. There are however tons of staples in the $7-$12 range that people would love to see.
Now, not all these cards may fit within the themes we’re getting, but a great many of them are very neutral in their applications. And, maybe we’ll still see some of these, particularly Anointed Procession and Parallel Lives when we get to that deck.
You say people are entitled. I say, have higher, unrealistic standards and stop settling.
Wow, lots to digest there, but I fixed it for you so you didn’t sound too foolish.
You realize most of those were already printed in Commander pre-cons. So, you’re asking them to make Pre-cons basically the same as previous iterations?
Then you go out and ask for cards like Strip Mine and Tutors. Like, lol. You should have led with your last line and left it like that, because now you just look really foolish.
There is zero precedent for any of these even being considered reprint worthy for Commander pre-cons. Let me rephrase. Aside from the already printed cards, there is no precedent. Specifically for cross format staples like tutors and efficient removal spells. Besides, these are supposed to be balanced, and printing powerful rares that aren’t shared across decks creates imbalance. Then, there are the “feels bad man” cards like Bribery(lol) and Mirari’s Wake.
My biggest gripe with all of this is people feel the need to tell everybody that they aren’t doing something, in this case, buying. Nobody cares.
What’s with people wanting expensive reprints in precons? I buy these to get new cards and ready-to-play decks in case I have new players to teach. So far the decks have served such purposes.
This in so many level
I get precon commander decks for the same reason
So what the reprints are not as good before 2018 this is about making the reprints cards everybody would put into a deck despite the theme
What’s with people wanting expensive reprints in precons? I buy these to get new cards and ready-to-play decks in case I have new players to teach. So far the decks have served such purposes.
This in so many level
I get precon commander decks for the same reason
So what the reprints are not as good before 2018 this is about making the reprints cards everybody would put into a deck despite the theme
Sultai morph, Jeskai grave, I feel that WotC is testing new water and is stimulating creativity here, I applaud their effort. What's the point of making new precons only to serve the existing schemes?
What’s with people wanting expensive reprints in precons? I buy these to get new cards and ready-to-play decks in case I have new players to teach. So far the decks have served such purposes.
This in so many level
I get precon commander decks for the same reason
So what the reprints are not as good before 2018 this is about making the reprints cards everybody would put into a deck despite the theme
Well, the funniest part is that most of the value in these decks is tied to the new cards, and rarely the reprints. Which is why I don’t get the fuss. If I want reprints, I want them in Standard legal sets. Seedborn Muse took a small hit, but once the set has run its course, it will be back to being close to what it was before.
Worldly Tutor in the modern frame is the least they could do, but it’s not looking like a possibility, despite the fact this product is the perfect place for such a request.
Welp,
All the blue is revealed and I only kinda want one card. Harsh.
Sultai morph, Jeskai grave, I feel that WotC is testing new water and is stimulating creativity here, I applaud their effort. What's the point of making new precons only to serve the existing schemes?
I really agree with this. There are a lot of cards previously terrible in commander that will suddenly be viable after this set drops. Only a handful of morph, madness, and flashback(/aftermath/retrace/jump-start/???) cards saw significant play, and now many more of those cards have a home, and the best of them have a place to really shine.
I think the diversity of the format is one of the biggest reasons it appeals to me so much more than any 60-card format, and this year's set looks to be bringing more diversity than arguably any other commander release. This might be the best commander series to date imo - the only real contenders are 2016 and the original 2011.
If you look through this thread, you’ll see a post of mine where Gavin Verhey, Wizards employee, acknowledges shortcoming in last years decks. Meaning, while not terrible, they weren’t great and could be improved upon. Quality of newly created cards is always debatable, cards that work for some, don’t work for all. That said, there is NO REASON a deck can’t have good reprints along with the new cards. Gavin ADMITS IT. He also says they’re listening to players complaints and said they’d address it. 50% in, his words are untrue.
Gavin Verhey: With that said, to your point about making sure Commander decks are chock-full of exciting reprints, we are looking at putting a lot of good reprints in Commander decks, I know that for some people 2018 didn’t have as many as they would have liked. We incorporated that feedback and going forward we’re definitely looking at the kind and number of reprints we’re putting in”.
As for the list of cards I used, it’s not my personal want list. With the exception of the BAttlebond duals and the Medallions, the cards I listed WERE THE MOST POPULAR CARDS BY TYPE IN THE EDH FORMAT, in terms of their appearance in the quantities of decks on EDHREC. So save your pithy, condescending attitude and stop acting like requesting one or two $7 to $12 cards (most on that list are sub-$10) per deck and perhaps one or two of the $20 cards total across all four decks is some far-fetched, unreasonable request. They are the MOST PLAYED CARDS IN THE FORMAT.
Yes, they may have been printed in the past, but some, like Propaganda haven’t been seen in 3 years, or 4 years since Arena, or 8 since Aura Shards. And let’s just stop pretending like adding one or two of each of those cards per deck, which we haven’t seen in three or four years is “reprinting the same decks”. Such a lame argument. Two cards per deck we haven’t seen in 3 to 8 years is not the same deck. And BTW, Sun Titan says hello (for the third time).
So, to sum up:
-person that oversees the decks acknowledges the reprints have been lacking in the last years Commander product.
-that person said they’d improve on that, and 50% of the way through, that’s untrue.
-the cards on my list are among THE MOST PLAYED IN THE FORMAT (per the decks submitted to EDHREC) and are not too highly priced so as to deliver an unreasonable EV. I carefully avoided financially unreasonable cards.
-a good number of those cards on that list have seen an appearance in the Commander decks before.
So PLEASE, enlighten me as to why I’m being unreasonable, and try to do it where YOU’RE not the one looking foolish. I have facts (evidence) on my side why it’s NOT.
Honestly, you’re arguing that roughly six sub-$10 STAPLES and a perhaps a pair of $20 cards is something totally unreasonable across four decks in a product that costs $160 (using last years MSRP). Quit acting like lowering the costs for newer or less affluent players is a BAD thing. That’s the hill you want to die on? EDH STAPLES, which this list is, should continue to rise in price when a simple $10 reprint can aid in alleviating that?
Putting in Ghostly Prison instead of Propaganda does stink of conciously trying to put as little reprint value in these as possible.
And stop barking about wanting this to play with noobs, everyone benefits from having better cards, new players more than anyone.
Bending over is not virtue, it's subjection.
If you look through this thread, you’ll see a post of mine where Gavin Verhey, Wizards employee, acknowledges shortcoming in last years decks. Meaning, while not terrible, they weren’t great and could be improved upon. Quality of newly created cards is always debatable, cards that work for some, don’t work for all. There is NO REASON a deck can have good reprints along with the new cards. Gavin ADMITS IT. He also says they’re listening to players complaints and said they’d address it. 50% in, his words are untrue.
As for the list of cards I used, it’s not my personal want list. With the exception of the BAttlebond duals and the Medallions, the cards I listed WERE THE MOST POPULAR CARDS BY TYPE IN THE EDH FORMAT, in terms of their appearance in the quantities of decks on EDHREC. So save your pithy, condescending attitude and stop acting like requesting one or two $7 to $12 cards (most on that list are sub-$10) per deck and perhaps one or two of the $20 cards total across all four decks is an unreasonable request. They are the MOST PLAYED CARDS IN THE FORMAT. Yes, they may have been printed in the past, but some, like Propaganda haven’t been seen in 3 years, or 4 years since Arena. And just stop pretending like adding one or two of each of those cards per deck, which we haven’t seen in years is “reprinting the same decks as previous years”. Such a lame argument. Two cards per deck we haven’t seen in years is not the same deck. And BTW, Sun Titan says hello (for the third time).
So, to sum up:
-person that oversees the decks acknowledges the reprints have been lacking in the last years Commander product.
-that person said they’d improve on that, and 50% of the way through, that’s untrue.
-the cards on my list are among THE MOST PLAYED IN THE FORMAT (per the decks submitted to EDHREC) and are not too highly priced so as to deliver an unreasonable EV. I carefully avoided financially unreasonable cards.
-a good number of those cards on that list have seen an appearance in the Commander decks before.
So PLEASE, enlighten me as to why I’m being unreasonable, and try to do it where YOU’RE not the one looking foolish.
Ah yes, the “I’ll type in caps to make my POINT SOUND BETTER” approach.
How about this. How do those cards play into the deck themes, and how would you balance them?
And for HOW YOU ARE BEING UNREASONABLE? Well, for starters, I said most of those reprints you want were already printed in Commander products. So, no for that. Next, you suggested cards that foster games that aren’t incredibly enjoyable, so no to that too. Then you ask for cards that exist in other supplemental product, like Battlebond, so why share those cards with a product that’s basically the same thing? So no to that as well.
There, happy? No? Didn’t think so. And nobody cares...
And stop barking about wanting this to play with noobs, everyone benefits from having better cards
I don’t think that’s the point. These decks have a predetermined theme and are expected to play well against each other. Slamming reprints, specifically powerful ones like THAT ONE GUY ASKED FOR, into the decks creates gameplay issues out of the box.
So, the cards need to fit the theme and play well against each other. Unfortunately, that lops off quite a few cards. But it is to be expected.
-that person said they’d improve on that, and 50% of the way through, that’s untrue.
I think you're forgetting just how bad reprint value was in 2018. I just perused the decklists, and very few reprints are worth more than $2, usually only a couple per deck. Unwinding clock is the only thing I see that's worth any significant money, and it's still single digits.
Little annoying to figure out the prices on those cards pre-reprint but still, I think we're going to do better than last year by a decent margin. Maybe not by as much as you'd like, but they have improved.
Anyway it's just a matter of priorities imo. Some people (myself included) don't care about reprints and think the new cards are exciting. I'd be equally as excited for these decks if all the old cards were replaced with stroopwafels. Actually, I'd be more excited because I have a lot more use for stroopwafels than a bunch of cards I already have.
What’s with people wanting expensive reprints in precons? I buy these to get new cards and ready-to-play decks in case I have new players to teach. So far the decks have served such purposes.
Okay, but if that's the case then why the price increase from $30 to $40? The last commander deck I bought was the Edgar Markov one, I'm pretty sure it can beat any of the $40 decks, and it had Teferi's Protection in it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
What’s with people wanting expensive reprints in precons? I buy these to get new cards and ready-to-play decks in case I have new players to teach. So far the decks have served such purposes.
Okay, but if that's the case then why the price increase from $30 to $40? The last commander deck I bought was the Edgar Markov one, I'm pretty sure it can beat any of the $40 decks, and it had Teferi's Protection in it.
Edgar's deck was worth $80 and there were 8 reprints over $8 in the set with Mirari's Wake being at $18 on release. So far we've got one such reprint in Seedborn Muse for C19. C18 had two.
Contrarians will make up all the excuses in the world, but this product line has objectively lost quality from it's C14-C16 peak while removing one deck and increasing the price by 33%.
Contrarians will make up all the excuses in the world, but this product line has objectively lost quality from it's C14-C16 peak while removing one deck and increasing the price by 33%.
That's only true if you define quality as being worth more money.
I will agree that I wish they hadn't increased the cost, but that's the only thing I can agree on. Personally I think the commanders this set are much better than 2014 or 2015.
I don't particularly care about reprints either. They're nice gravy but they're not what gets me so hyped for the product every year
But why do new, exciting cards have to preclude worthwhile reprints, particularly staple reprints?
Just as an example, all the Medallions save one, are $5 or less, so why not put the one that corresponds to a decks most dominant color across all decks? It’s impossible to believe that the makers of Magic can’t strike a deck balance and include a $7 highly played card at the same time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Member since 2009; original handle lost in the Twitch shuffle.
But why do new, exciting cards have to preclude worthwhile reprints, particularly staple reprints?
Just as an example, all the Medallions save one, are $5 or less, so why not put the one that corresponds to a decks most dominant color across all decks? It’s impossible to believe that the makers of Magic can’t strike a deck balance and include a $7 highly played card at the same time.
They don't have to, im just saying I don't really care. If they pushed it more that would be nice. Push it too much though and venders might sell them for way more so they need to be somewhat careful
The core set was lacking in reprints... what?
We got leyline of the void, sanctity and anticipation that were all $20+ cards and see plenty of play. Grafdiggers cage was $8 and is a staple in older formats. Steel overseer was $16 and sees play in multiple formats. Lotus field is a functional reprint of lotus vale and there were several other cards that were made even cheaper like the temples and rule of law. If you wanted a playset of leyline of the void and sanctity along with 1 anticipation for commander 4 months ago you'd pay $320, now it's 'just' $92. A $228 price cut seems more than reasonable for reprint value.
theres some decent stuff in that too
Clever Impersonator and sun titan in the same deck amazing
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I really wish I had your level of energy to get worked up over this. I have real problems to deal with. If I'm not interested in a product I don't buy it. Nobody's putting a gun to my head. As to this point about people not asking for super expensive reprints I've seen people on this very forum demanding things like Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Teferi, Temporal Archmage and Oracle of Mul Daya, shock and fetchlands etc. All of which disprove that point.
Regardless, the OP asked if this was a bust after a single deck got spoiled and I noted we don't have enough information for that determination. Lo and behold, more interesting stuff is already coming down the pipeline.
And for me, this definitely isn't a bust, just doesn't seem aimed at me.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
^ That part.
Wow, lots to digest there, but I fixed it for you so you didn’t sound too foolish.
You realize most of those were already printed in Commander pre-cons. So, you’re asking them to make Pre-cons basically the same as previous iterations?
Then you go out and ask for cards like Strip Mine and Tutors. Like, lol. You should have led with your last line and left it like that, because now you just look really foolish.
There is zero precedent for any of these even being considered reprint worthy for Commander pre-cons.Let me rephrase. Aside from the already printed cards, there is no precedent. Specifically for cross format staples like tutors and efficient removal spells. Besides, these are supposed to be balanced, and printing powerful rares that aren’t shared across decks creates imbalance. Then, there are the “feels bad man” cards like Bribery(lol) and Mirari’s Wake.My biggest gripe with all of this is people feel the need to tell everybody that they aren’t doing something, in this case, buying. Nobody cares.
This in so many level
I get precon commander decks for the same reason
So what the reprints are not as good before 2018 this is about making the reprints cards everybody would put into a deck despite the theme
Sultai morph, Jeskai grave, I feel that WotC is testing new water and is stimulating creativity here, I applaud their effort. What's the point of making new precons only to serve the existing schemes?
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Well, the funniest part is that most of the value in these decks is tied to the new cards, and rarely the reprints. Which is why I don’t get the fuss. If I want reprints, I want them in Standard legal sets. Seedborn Muse took a small hit, but once the set has run its course, it will be back to being close to what it was before.
Welp,
All the blue is revealed and I only kinda want one card. Harsh.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I think the diversity of the format is one of the biggest reasons it appeals to me so much more than any 60-card format, and this year's set looks to be bringing more diversity than arguably any other commander release. This might be the best commander series to date imo - the only real contenders are 2016 and the original 2011.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
If you look through this thread, you’ll see a post of mine where Gavin Verhey, Wizards employee, acknowledges shortcoming in last years decks. Meaning, while not terrible, they weren’t great and could be improved upon. Quality of newly created cards is always debatable, cards that work for some, don’t work for all. That said, there is NO REASON a deck can’t have good reprints along with the new cards. Gavin ADMITS IT. He also says they’re listening to players complaints and said they’d address it. 50% in, his words are untrue.
Gavin Verhey: With that said, to your point about making sure Commander decks are chock-full of exciting reprints, we are looking at putting a lot of good reprints in Commander decks, I know that for some people 2018 didn’t have as many as they would have liked. We incorporated that feedback and going forward we’re definitely looking at the kind and number of reprints we’re putting in”.
As for the list of cards I used, it’s not my personal want list. With the exception of the BAttlebond duals and the Medallions, the cards I listed WERE THE MOST POPULAR CARDS BY TYPE IN THE EDH FORMAT, in terms of their appearance in the quantities of decks on EDHREC. So save your pithy, condescending attitude and stop acting like requesting one or two $7 to $12 cards (most on that list are sub-$10) per deck and perhaps one or two of the $20 cards total across all four decks is some far-fetched, unreasonable request. They are the MOST PLAYED CARDS IN THE FORMAT.
Yes, they may have been printed in the past, but some, like Propaganda haven’t been seen in 3 years, or 4 years since Arena, or 8 since Aura Shards. And let’s just stop pretending like adding one or two of each of those cards per deck, which we haven’t seen in three or four years is “reprinting the same decks”. Such a lame argument. Two cards per deck we haven’t seen in 3 to 8 years is not the same deck. And BTW, Sun Titan says hello (for the third time).
So, to sum up:
-person that oversees the decks acknowledges the reprints have been lacking in the last years Commander product.
-that person said they’d improve on that, and 50% of the way through, that’s untrue.
-the cards on my list are among THE MOST PLAYED IN THE FORMAT (per the decks submitted to EDHREC) and are not too highly priced so as to deliver an unreasonable EV. I carefully avoided financially unreasonable cards.
-a good number of those cards on that list have seen an appearance in the Commander decks before.
So PLEASE, enlighten me as to why I’m being unreasonable, and try to do it where YOU’RE not the one looking foolish. I have facts (evidence) on my side why it’s NOT.
Honestly, you’re arguing that roughly six sub-$10 STAPLES and a perhaps a pair of $20 cards is something totally unreasonable across four decks in a product that costs $160 (using last years MSRP). Quit acting like lowering the costs for newer or less affluent players is a BAD thing. That’s the hill you want to die on? EDH STAPLES, which this list is, should continue to rise in price when a simple $10 reprint can aid in alleviating that?
And stop barking about wanting this to play with noobs, everyone benefits from having better cards, new players more than anyone.
Bending over is not virtue, it's subjection.
Ah yes, the “I’ll type in caps to make my POINT SOUND BETTER” approach.
How about this. How do those cards play into the deck themes, and how would you balance them?
And for HOW YOU ARE BEING UNREASONABLE? Well, for starters, I said most of those reprints you want were already printed in Commander products. So, no for that. Next, you suggested cards that foster games that aren’t incredibly enjoyable, so no to that too. Then you ask for cards that exist in other supplemental product, like Battlebond, so why share those cards with a product that’s basically the same thing? So no to that as well.
There, happy? No? Didn’t think so. And nobody cares...
I don’t think that’s the point. These decks have a predetermined theme and are expected to play well against each other. Slamming reprints, specifically powerful ones like THAT ONE GUY ASKED FOR, into the decks creates gameplay issues out of the box.
So, the cards need to fit the theme and play well against each other. Unfortunately, that lops off quite a few cards. But it is to be expected.
Little annoying to figure out the prices on those cards pre-reprint but still, I think we're going to do better than last year by a decent margin. Maybe not by as much as you'd like, but they have improved.
Anyway it's just a matter of priorities imo. Some people (myself included) don't care about reprints and think the new cards are exciting. I'd be equally as excited for these decks if all the old cards were replaced with stroopwafels. Actually, I'd be more excited because I have a lot more use for stroopwafels than a bunch of cards I already have.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Okay, but if that's the case then why the price increase from $30 to $40? The last commander deck I bought was the Edgar Markov one, I'm pretty sure it can beat any of the $40 decks, and it had Teferi's Protection in it.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Contrarians will make up all the excuses in the world, but this product line has objectively lost quality from it's C14-C16 peak while removing one deck and increasing the price by 33%.
I will agree that I wish they hadn't increased the cost, but that's the only thing I can agree on. Personally I think the commanders this set are much better than 2014 or 2015.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
But why do new, exciting cards have to preclude worthwhile reprints, particularly staple reprints?
Just as an example, all the Medallions save one, are $5 or less, so why not put the one that corresponds to a decks most dominant color across all decks? It’s impossible to believe that the makers of Magic can’t strike a deck balance and include a $7 highly played card at the same time.
They don't have to, im just saying I don't really care. If they pushed it more that would be nice. Push it too much though and venders might sell them for way more so they need to be somewhat careful
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)