Vehicle was the mechanic that they had to rework the most, according to PAX, and various versions worked like Soviet Russian Equipment (Equipment Wears Your).
Avoiding mana costs to 'crew' was a good call, just to separate it from Equipment. Because from one of the earlier iterations (Crewed Creatures get the Vehicles keywords like "Flying" or "Trample" instead of the other way around) you could attack with one creature crewing the vehicle and block with the other (which is nonsense and hard to keep track of on board). I think the best version, and by best I mean amusingly similar to banding, was vehicles had zero power and their power was the combined power of Crewing creatures. Which was flavorful for smaller vehicles but a bit rubbish for things like the Skysovereign. The problem was still the board wipe issue of never rebuilding back up (cause that version crewing was number of creatures, not power).
It isn't the most flavorfully on point, but that's most mechanics, it gets the point across well enough and is easier to keep track of on board. Which for a mechanic at all rarities will matter.
It isn't the most flavorfully on point, but that's most mechanics, it gets the point across well enough and is easier to keep track of on board. Which for a mechanic at all rarities will matter.
Cheers mate!
I'm coming around to the vehicle mechanic, slowly but surely. I jump the cliff so to speak sometimes when it comes to my review of new cards & mechanics. Always good to get some extra opinions on board in order to better understand and come to a more complete perspective of any situation. Thanks!
With chandra spoiled now I consider everyone who calls this set crap to be an complete and utter troll. She's undoubtedly the strongest red planeswalker ever printed and that alone will make this set a hit.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
With chandra spoiled now I consider everyone who calls this set crap to be an complete and utter troll. She's undoubtedly the strongest red planeswalker ever printed and that alone will make this set a hit.
One highly viable card doesn't make a set great all of the sudden. Voice of Resurgence didn't save Dragon's Maze and suddenly make it a great set. Dragon's Maze is still a horrible set. Every set a few viable cards, but if a set ends up being terrible, its terrible.
Fabricate- So far the only mechanic that has general overall usage. Could show up anywhere and not be out of place.
Vehicles- 50/50. It reverse equipment. Except you may need more than one creature to actually make it do anything.
Energy- Looking too parasitic. Your spending mana to cast a spell that you might just have to use to get energy.
take Die Young for example. You either have to play it early to kill a small creature OR cast other energy generating effect but not use them, then cast Die Young later to kill a bigger threat effectively 2+ for 1-ing yourself. I don't know about anyone else but energy doesn't make me feel like an inventor, it makes me feel like a General/Warlord utilizing my resources for battle.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
I feel that they absolutely dropped the ball with "Fabricate".
Would it have been so hard to have called the ability "Assemble" and have the creature type be "Contraption"?
It's the perfect ability for it, they don't even have to make any new riggers, just make the ability a thing.
Energy itself feels like a very fun resource and although its a weebit parastic its nowhere near as bad as what came from Kamigawa as its also provides cards that are super flexible on their own. If it becomes a recurring mechanic in sets outside of Kaladesh I would be much pleased by that.
As a kitchen table multiplayer/cube/EDH player, I'm looking at this set and already considering it the most cohesive since Shadowmoor/Eventide. So far it looks to be filled with great build-around-me ideas from top to bottom.
I would have preferred that Vehicles were DFCs taht has a static (maybe boring ) artifact card side and a flipped to the vehicle side. I also think they should stay crewed while your creature stays tapped. I the loses the psuedo hexprof but those two changes would have kept them from having P/T on a non creature, fit with previous designs, and prevented a lot of feel bads.
The overall theme is good. I fear the mechanics in general will be forgettable as they are generic for draft (fabricate) or are parasitic energy. It is possible energy will stick around and replace a lot of the random counters artifacts and lands were using before. I assume it still works with proliferate and that we might see that back next set.
They were known as Living Weapons - artifacts that came attached to a token, thus enabling them to attack.
I'm not really enthused about them, as Convoking in order to attack with a creature is...well, dumb. I realize they couldn't make it a stronger effect, but...
I do love the art. It's gorgeous, and all the filigree is giving off vibes of Esper and etherium. Kaladesh is Esper when it takes its meds. :3
With Chandra and Nissa spoiled (the 'real ones,' not the intro pack things), I'm even more hyped for this set than I was before. I absolutely LOVE the flavor. It's nice to come to a bright and happy place after two blocks of Eldrazi Apocalypse. Just the opening story for the block feels like it should be the best enchantment ever: Gatewatch Slumber Party, or something like that. The story so far seems really interesting, especially Chandra's interactions with Lili and Nissa. The devil and the angel on either shoulder, it seems. Also, I really want a copy of Skysovereign. Battlecruiser Magic feels literal now. And the Aetherborn are amazing! When low on mana, I'm not sure if I should say, "You have not enough aether" or "You must construct additional swamps." I would go full StarCraft, but I don't wanna get sued.
Overall, loving the set so far, and really looking forward to the new mechanics, especially energy.
They were known as Living Weapons - artifacts that came attached to a token, thus enabling them to attack.
I'm not really enthused about them, as Convoking in order to attack with a creature is...well, dumb. I realize they couldn't make it a stronger effect, but...
I would definitely say that Living Weapons aren't Vehicles, Vodalian War Machine is the true original vehicle. It actually functions similarly but was much more unplayable.
I think this is probably the best set that wizards has done in a long time. There are many powerful good cards in this set. They blew power creep right out the window. Anything in this set is just bonkers powered up. Common and uncommon a like. You can probably make a green / red deck out of cards like Arborback StomperThragtusk light edition, Voltaic Brawler a 5/4 with trample attacking on turn 3. That's a modern playable card in a zoo deck. Sure you only get the pump once but most of zoo's creatures are 2 or 3 attack power for super cheap. Filigree Familiar or standard kitchen finks. We still only have 69 of the cards. The power creep in this set is crazy high. Everything has an added ability. You might even see a card banned in this standard for being too good. That's the power level they are pushing out. There has to be an extreme level of cheap hate spells to counter act the massive power creep.
The nitpick is strong with me.
Voltaic Brawler is AT MOST a 4/3 with trample whenever it attacks (assuming nothing but its own abilities affects it). You can spend one, and only one, energy for its attack trigger. You can't dump all of your energy unless the rules text permits it. They just used the symbol to mean "one energy counter". Compare with Die Young and Harnessed Lightning to see the difference between 'pay one' and 'pay any and/or all'.
I really do not get most of you, guys. For me, almost any new set is full of fun and challenges, but this might be because I am purely Limited player.
I'm mostly a Limited mage as well, so Kaladesh looks pretty exciting. Choosing whether or not to take a Vehicle, how they factor into curves and creature counts in deckbuilding, Energy-enablers and payoffs...all of this will likely give Kaladesh Limited a unique flavor, one that hopefully translates to deep, strategic gameplay. There's a lot to be excited for regarding Kaladesh as a standalone product.
But from a Constructed standpoint, I'm not to impressed by this set.
The mechanics aren't that interesting in the context of Magic as a whole.
Energy is one of the most parasitic mechanics we've seen since Infect or Arcane before that. It's a counter that accrues to players, of which only the only prior cards that can interact with it in any way are those with Proliferate, and can only be consumed by cards within the block (or whereever else it might show up down the road). Both Scions and Clues show that universal resources can be generated by cards, as part of a block mechanic, without being totally parasitic.
Vehicles simply aren't going to be that exciting, unless development goes hogwild with them or design makes something much more complicated than the Consul Flagship. The ceiling on vehicles is pretty much what's printed on them and the only real point of play, at least in Constructed, is finding some undercosted creatures with high power to Crew them for maximum value (e.g. Lupine Prototype, Lambholdt Pacifist). Maybe play some Vehicles Matter "tribal" cards. It's just not that interesting a mechanic to play with right now. Could Inspired, or some other mechanic that plays well with vehichles, be in Amonkhet or beyond? Sure. But right now Vehicles don't look all that exciting outside of Limited, where creature combat and board states are actually interesting.
Fabricate will likely be a Limited-only mechanic in the vein of Outlast, Renown, or Support. Perhaps one card might be pushed heavily enough by development that it shows up in Constructed. Still, not terribly interesting from a Constructed standpoint, though Sandsteppe Outcast: The Mechanic seems pretty nifty in Limited.
And to cap it all off Kaladesh seems to be continuing the trend of blatantly pushing individual cards. Look at stuff like Chandra the Mindmelter or the new cycle of artifact "Titans". Some cards simply receive more love from Development and it obviously shows. Personally, I think Magic is most fun when you're choosing what to play with and build around, not when Mr. Stoddard and his Merry Band do it for you by making obvious staples that are head and shoulders above everything else.
Tarkir block, Shadows over Innistrad block, Magic Origins, these were the best recent draft environments. BFZ was worse, but still OK enough.
While I dislike SoI Limited (EMN is alright, however), I can at least see some of the appeal it has to others; players can do busted, cube-like things (though being on the receiving end...) with all the synergies. Ok, cool.
But Magic Origins? That set was putrid. One of the worst Limited sets since they've started designing around Draft/Sealed. Easily ranks near ZZZ/ZZW, Avacyn Restored, Gatecrash, and triple Theros in terms of formats I'd be happy to never play again.
Please print only broken cards so I have something for my Vintage deck.
The deck has been the same for 20 years cause Wizards REFUSES to print more broken cards!
Kidding.
I absolutely love Kaladesh. We've tried to do Riding in We Make the Set, and I think Vehicles (and especially using Crew to do so) are a beautiful design.
The artwork is the most inspiring and beautiful since Ravnica. And even Energy, I'm sure we haven't seen its full spectrum yet.
Bring on the pods, and let's race!
Energy- Looking too parasitic. Your spending mana to cast a spell that you might just have to use to get energy.
take Die Young for example. You either have to play it early to kill a small creature OR cast other energy generating effect but not use them, then cast Die Young later to kill a bigger threat effectively 2+ for 1-ing yourself. I don't know about anyone else but energy doesn't make me feel like an inventor, it makes me feel like a General/Warlord utilizing my resources for battle.
You're complaining that a card that has that many choices associated with it and plays dynamically even with itself is parasitic and bad design?
You're complaining that a card that has that many choices associated with it and plays dynamically even with itself is parasitic and bad design?
And he is right to do so. Tell me, what choice and dynamic play is available by including Woodweaver's Puzzleknot in my deck? It just gains some life. The counters themselves do nothing, unless you have a card that cares about them. I'm sure energy counters will be implemented well and that we will get some fun gameplay out of them, but they are definitely parasitic and the mechanic itself isn't great design.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
Is it me or are overall costing costs getting bigger while total number of non creature spells are getting smaller?
I'm pretty sure it's you, although I must admit that many people seem to have a problem of forgetting the tons of undercosted creatures and very good spells (like Collected Company, Kolaghan's Command, Declaration in Stone etc.) we have been getting the last few blocks. If you are not comparing every set with the most broken ones like Urzas Saga and Mirrodin you might actually find that Magic has been pretty stable in that regard. (Although I can say from experience that accentuating the negative is something of a hobby of this community...). I can safely predict that Kaladesh will be no exception of the rule.
It looks like a really great limited set, but aside from that, we will probably have to wait until Aether Revolt before things and get into "full swing" for constructed. That's the problem with sets like this, where they create a entirely new resource (energy) and cards to use it are completely limited to this one set only. I don't really see them moving forward with making energy cards a common thing in every set going forward. Therefor, energy related uses will be limited to when/if we return to Kaladesh in the future. Overall, I don't think people who are looking forward to a solid constructed set, whether it be for Standard or eternal formats, are too excited for some of the limiting mechanics happening within this set. Yes, we do have some strong looking Rares, and a few Mythics that should see their way immediately into Standard decks.
My thoughts.. this is one of the best sets I have ever seen.
The mechanics are not simple add +1/+1 counters neither some way to reduce the cost of something.
The vehicles mechanics is strange but there is space to do something good with it. Energy is a GREAT concept, finally something on the same level of uniqueness as proliferate.
I have not been playing standard for 4 years.. but I am thinking on returning just because of this set!
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Avoiding mana costs to 'crew' was a good call, just to separate it from Equipment. Because from one of the earlier iterations (Crewed Creatures get the Vehicles keywords like "Flying" or "Trample" instead of the other way around) you could attack with one creature crewing the vehicle and block with the other (which is nonsense and hard to keep track of on board). I think the best version, and by best I mean amusingly similar to banding, was vehicles had zero power and their power was the combined power of Crewing creatures. Which was flavorful for smaller vehicles but a bit rubbish for things like the Skysovereign. The problem was still the board wipe issue of never rebuilding back up (cause that version crewing was number of creatures, not power).
It isn't the most flavorfully on point, but that's most mechanics, it gets the point across well enough and is easier to keep track of on board. Which for a mechanic at all rarities will matter.
Cheers mate!
I'm coming around to the vehicle mechanic, slowly but surely. I jump the cliff so to speak sometimes when it comes to my review of new cards & mechanics. Always good to get some extra opinions on board in order to better understand and come to a more complete perspective of any situation. Thanks!
And yet there were people calling for vehicles before so I guess everyone os different
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
Energy is interesting, and proliferate should affect it, but sadly, Doubling Season won't.
I have no input for standard, modern, draft or other nonESH formats.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
One highly viable card doesn't make a set great all of the sudden. Voice of Resurgence didn't save Dragon's Maze and suddenly make it a great set. Dragon's Maze is still a horrible set. Every set a few viable cards, but if a set ends up being terrible, its terrible.
Fabricate- So far the only mechanic that has general overall usage. Could show up anywhere and not be out of place.
Vehicles- 50/50. It reverse equipment. Except you may need more than one creature to actually make it do anything.
Energy- Looking too parasitic. Your spending mana to cast a spell that you might just have to use to get energy.
take Die Young for example. You either have to play it early to kill a small creature OR cast other energy generating effect but not use them, then cast Die Young later to kill a bigger threat effectively 2+ for 1-ing yourself. I don't know about anyone else but energy doesn't make me feel like an inventor, it makes me feel like a General/Warlord utilizing my resources for battle.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Would it have been so hard to have called the ability "Assemble" and have the creature type be "Contraption"?
It's the perfect ability for it, they don't even have to make any new riggers, just make the ability a thing.
I am enjoying this. Perhaps its just me but I honestly feel right at home as I play Netrunner and their recent batches of cards was Hindu/eastern-Indian but very much futuristic of course.
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/c9/ec/c9ecf383-cc67-401c-a55f-4c4b1ab296f4/adn34_fan.png
Energy itself feels like a very fun resource and although its a weebit parastic its nowhere near as bad as what came from Kamigawa as its also provides cards that are super flexible on their own. If it becomes a recurring mechanic in sets outside of Kaladesh I would be much pleased by that.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
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The overall theme is good. I fear the mechanics in general will be forgettable as they are generic for draft (fabricate) or are parasitic energy. It is possible energy will stick around and replace a lot of the random counters artifacts and lands were using before. I assume it still works with proliferate and that we might see that back next set.
They were known as Living Weapons - artifacts that came attached to a token, thus enabling them to attack.
I'm not really enthused about them, as Convoking in order to attack with a creature is...well, dumb. I realize they couldn't make it a stronger effect, but...
I do love the art. It's gorgeous, and all the filigree is giving off vibes of Esper and etherium. Kaladesh is Esper when it takes its meds. :3
Overall, loving the set so far, and really looking forward to the new mechanics, especially energy.
I would definitely say that Living Weapons aren't Vehicles, Vodalian War Machine is the true original vehicle. It actually functions similarly but was much more unplayable.
Voltaic Brawler is AT MOST a 4/3 with trample whenever it attacks (assuming nothing but its own abilities affects it). You can spend one, and only one, energy for its attack trigger. You can't dump all of your energy unless the rules text permits it. They just used the symbol to mean "one energy counter". Compare with Die Young and Harnessed Lightning to see the difference between 'pay one' and 'pay any and/or all'.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
I'm mostly a Limited mage as well, so Kaladesh looks pretty exciting. Choosing whether or not to take a Vehicle, how they factor into curves and creature counts in deckbuilding, Energy-enablers and payoffs...all of this will likely give Kaladesh Limited a unique flavor, one that hopefully translates to deep, strategic gameplay. There's a lot to be excited for regarding Kaladesh as a standalone product.
But from a Constructed standpoint, I'm not to impressed by this set.
The mechanics aren't that interesting in the context of Magic as a whole.
Energy is one of the most parasitic mechanics we've seen since Infect or Arcane before that. It's a counter that accrues to players, of which only the only prior cards that can interact with it in any way are those with Proliferate, and can only be consumed by cards within the block (or whereever else it might show up down the road). Both Scions and Clues show that universal resources can be generated by cards, as part of a block mechanic, without being totally parasitic.
Vehicles simply aren't going to be that exciting, unless development goes hogwild with them or design makes something much more complicated than the Consul Flagship. The ceiling on vehicles is pretty much what's printed on them and the only real point of play, at least in Constructed, is finding some undercosted creatures with high power to Crew them for maximum value (e.g. Lupine Prototype, Lambholdt Pacifist). Maybe play some Vehicles Matter "tribal" cards. It's just not that interesting a mechanic to play with right now. Could Inspired, or some other mechanic that plays well with vehichles, be in Amonkhet or beyond? Sure. But right now Vehicles don't look all that exciting outside of Limited, where creature combat and board states are actually interesting.
Fabricate will likely be a Limited-only mechanic in the vein of Outlast, Renown, or Support. Perhaps one card might be pushed heavily enough by development that it shows up in Constructed. Still, not terribly interesting from a Constructed standpoint, though Sandsteppe Outcast: The Mechanic seems pretty nifty in Limited.
And to cap it all off Kaladesh seems to be continuing the trend of blatantly pushing individual cards. Look at stuff like Chandra the Mindmelter or the new cycle of artifact "Titans". Some cards simply receive more love from Development and it obviously shows. Personally, I think Magic is most fun when you're choosing what to play with and build around, not when Mr. Stoddard and his Merry Band do it for you by making obvious staples that are head and shoulders above everything else.
While I dislike SoI Limited (EMN is alright, however), I can at least see some of the appeal it has to others; players can do busted, cube-like things (though being on the receiving end...) with all the synergies. Ok, cool.
But Magic Origins? That set was putrid. One of the worst Limited sets since they've started designing around Draft/Sealed. Easily ranks near ZZZ/ZZW, Avacyn Restored, Gatecrash, and triple Theros in terms of formats I'd be happy to never play again.
The deck has been the same for 20 years cause Wizards REFUSES to print more broken cards!
Kidding.
I absolutely love Kaladesh. We've tried to do Riding in We Make the Set, and I think Vehicles (and especially using Crew to do so) are a beautiful design.
The artwork is the most inspiring and beautiful since Ravnica. And even Energy, I'm sure we haven't seen its full spectrum yet.
Bring on the pods, and let's race!
( 0.0 )
=O ((U/R)) O=
(")(")
I'm an AI making Magic cards.
http://www.staalmedia.nl/nexus/#generate
You're complaining that a card that has that many choices associated with it and plays dynamically even with itself is parasitic and bad design?
And he is right to do so. Tell me, what choice and dynamic play is available by including Woodweaver's Puzzleknot in my deck? It just gains some life. The counters themselves do nothing, unless you have a card that cares about them. I'm sure energy counters will be implemented well and that we will get some fun gameplay out of them, but they are definitely parasitic and the mechanic itself isn't great design.
- Manite
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I'm pretty sure it's you, although I must admit that many people seem to have a problem of forgetting the tons of undercosted creatures and very good spells (like Collected Company, Kolaghan's Command, Declaration in Stone etc.) we have been getting the last few blocks. If you are not comparing every set with the most broken ones like Urzas Saga and Mirrodin you might actually find that Magic has been pretty stable in that regard. (Although I can say from experience that accentuating the negative is something of a hobby of this community...). I can safely predict that Kaladesh will be no exception of the rule.
The mechanics are not simple add +1/+1 counters neither some way to reduce the cost of something.
The vehicles mechanics is strange but there is space to do something good with it. Energy is a GREAT concept, finally something on the same level of uniqueness as proliferate.
I have not been playing standard for 4 years.. but I am thinking on returning just because of this set!