Well, the new Emrakul, the Promised End has been spoiled and so far reactions have a little all over the place. Some people feel it's simply underwhelming, others feel it shouldn't exist because it can't hold a candle to Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and, finally, some, like myself like it.
But I'm wondering really is why? What's making it or breaking for you about this card.
Personally: I think it does Emrakul justice considering what it used to be. By that, I mean that the old Emrakul felt too much like 'I win' button and makes for really not so fun games. The new feels powerful but isn't the be all, end all to big powerful creatures. It's got an impressive array of abilities but has more weaknesses and seem like it will take much more thought to get the most out it.
Also there's one thing I think most of us can agree on: DAT ART!
I think that it works well in terms of flavor, and that it's probably powerful enough to be "worth it." As others have mentioned, it can potentially be cast for much less that the 13 in its cost, which makes it much easier to cast than its brethren. I think that mindslaver is strong enough that giving them an extra turn to recover is still probably not too bad. Obviously, in EDH you can do a lot more dumb stuff with it, since you can put down Ugin's Nexus, and that just lets you straight-up mindslaver someone. I do think, though, that giving it haste would have been nice, since it is easier to kill than the last one, and we have some very good removal that gets around its protection from instants. The only other thing I would have liked to see would have been an ability that corrupts other creatures, since that's her MO in EMN. Other than that, though, I'm quite happy with her. She's not perfect, and I doubt she'll be as played as the original one was, but I like her.
It's a weird time when a 13/13 trampling and flying creature that could potentially be hardcast around turn 5-6 which also has protection isn't considered an incredibly powerful creature.
The only thing this lacks in comparison to the original is NOT annihilator, it's the "This can't be countered" clause, THAT was made the original Emrakul possible to hardcast and have all the thing for paying the damn 15 mana there.
we have some very good removal that gets around its protection from instants
Such as? No, seriously, I'm a bit disconnected from the standard metagame...
I think that it works well in terms of flavor, and that it's probably powerful enough to be "worth it." As others have mentioned, it can potentially be cast for much less that the 13 in its cost, which makes it much easier to cast than its brethren. I think that mindslaver is strong enough that giving them an extra turn to recover is still probably not too bad. Obviously, in EDH you can do a lot more dumb stuff with it, since you can put down Ugin's Nexus, and that just lets you straight-up mindslaver someone. I do think, though, that giving it haste would have been nice, since it is easier to kill than the last one, and we have some very good removal that gets around its protection from instants. The only other thing I would have liked to see would have been an ability that corrupts other creatures, since that's her MO in EMN. Other than that, though, I'm quite happy with her. She's not perfect, and I doubt she'll be as played as the original one was, but I like her.
If she got haste, I think she would have to lose trample. I mean 13/13 flying, trample, mindslaver, capable of reducing casting cost, protection from instants and haste? It makes her a little too similar to the Aeons Torn. Also, while she is easier to kill than before, she can also be reanimated which is a plus.
It's a weird time when a 13/13 trampling and flying creature that could potentially be hardcast around turn 5-6 which also has protection isn't considered an incredibly powerful creature.
The only thing this lacks in comparison to the original is NOT annihilator, it's the "This can't be countered" clause, THAT was made the original Emrakul possible to hardcast and have all the thing for paying the damn 15 mana there.
we have some very good removal that gets around its protection from instants
Such as? No, seriously, I'm a bit disconnected from the standard metagame...
I think the original set the bar so high that people kind of expected this new version to either be more powerful or just as powerful and it makes her feel not as good.
I agree with you about removal. I'm really only an EDH player, so my knowledge on other formats is limited. However, I like to think that her mindslaver can counter removal to a degree. Most removals that I know about are instants (which she has protection from barring some exceptions) or are sorceries that you won't have to initially worry about. The mindslaver gives you tactical options to either make someone waste such removal or be put into such a bad state that even if they get rid of Emrakul, it's a pyrrhic victory.
I really don't like this card, sure the end of the turn and then you control your opponent's turn is good however those are his only pros. The cons are really big ones: 1. You opponent can cast non instant removal of him completely makes him too much of a big target. 2. It has flying and trample, that's it. Don't get me wrong he is 13/13 but he can be still blocked with a lot of creatures meaning your opponent will throw almost anything at him in order to kill it and not to deal damage. 3. In theory her cost will be reduced by 8 but in reality it will be 3 or 4 since you won't likely have any card type imaginable. 4. He could be countered, so much for a menacing eldrazi if your opponent can simply Counterspell or Broken Concentration him. 5. You opponent has an extra turn to fix the damage you have done meaning this is a worse version of mindslaver.
For me, I am liking this card because it's not at all what I expected. It feels strong without being so broken that it's un-fun. It is flavorful as heck - I love that delirium plays right into Her as it should and her taking control of your opponents' minds is wonderful. She harkens back to the previous version very well yet still stands on her own. Finally, that art is just gloriously frightening. It truly depicts her power and sends chills down my back.
I hope you noticed that Emrakul will use Non-Instant Removal against you anyway during the turn hes controllin you. Therefore lil to no danger losin your 10 Mana savior/Finisher by removal. Its even the opposite, that opponent will lose some of his cards for sure.
I dont think hes blocked by too much. Even if, still Trample & a 9 - 10 Mana 13/13 body with Instant Protection is more you can ask for. Really
But Extra turn for opponent is the only thing i dislike & think wasnt neccesary at all.
I really don't like this card, sure the end of the turn and then you control your opponent's turn is good however those are his only pros. The cons are really big ones: 1. You opponent can cast non instant removal of him completely makes him too much of a big target. 2. It has flying and trample, that's it. Don't get me wrong he is 13/13 but he can be still blocked with a lot of creatures meaning your opponent will throw almost anything at him in order to kill it and not to deal damage. 3. In theory her cost will be reduced by 8 but in reality it will be 3 or 4 since you won't likely have any card type imaginable. 4. He could be countered, so much for a menacing eldrazi if your opponent can simply Counterspell or Broken Concentration him. 5. You opponent has an extra turn to fix the damage you have done meaning this is a worse version of mindslaver.
1. Dies to removal is not an argument for a card to be bad. This one even avoids A LOT of said removal. and if you cast it, you gain control of your opponent's turn... if he happens to have a sorcery removal, feel free to cast it at something else.
So, your opponent has to topdeck new removal or deal with a 13/13 flying trampler without it.
2. How many times have you seen people with enough blockers to stop 13 power in the air? Seriously. and that after they made a REALLY bad attack in the turn before and Emrakul blocked and killed his best dude... this point makes no sense whatsoever.
3. And still, he'll be a 13/13 flying trample monstrosity with "ruin target player next turn" attached to it for 10 or something, which is... well, not bad.
4. well, by that logic, almost all hardcasted bombs in magic history are bad. Even so, Emrakul will let you control the next turn of your opponent and try your best to ruin his board position even if it's Counterspelled and that's huge.
5. an extra turn is just an extra card and "untap everything". that doesn't fix a turn where he made the worst possible decisions he could have made.
If just 1 turn fixes everything and deals with the 13/13 flying trampler monstrosity you just played, then you were so much behind you should have conceded before casting emrakul.
Is it a "worse mindslaver"? sure it is.
If it was a straight up mindslaver it would be A LOT better than the Time Walk effect the old Emrakul had.
No, Emrakul doesnt die as easily as you think. Cuz during the turn hes controlling you, he will use possible Removal for him, simply against you & make your creatures run into him & whateva other fatties are around. In the end you will lose some stuff.
Also sayin a 9-10 Mana 13/13 Trampling Flyer with Pro Instants is to handle in combat seems naive, since you will likely lose some creatures anyway running into your fatties, during corrupted turn. & for that manacost you cant ask for more.
I really dislike though that opponent gets an Extrs turn !
I am happy with it because it's a Titan that will be castable in standard and hard to deal with. Casting this for an average of 8-9 mana is def feasible in the G/R Ramp decks and it will be satisfying to play. EM's abilities are a boon for the deck. The combo of Flying and Trample should not be underestimated. A lot of articles keep saying that Flying is the best evasion at the moment, and EM does it well. Heck, you can even suicide the OPs best flying creature into EM on the controlled turn, leave the OP to either topdeck an answer or die the following turn. I could go on with EM's playability, but I'll just reiterate, don't underestimate it.
1. Dies to removal is not an argument for a card to be bad. This one even avoids A LOT of said removal. and if you cast it, you gain control of your opponent's turn... if he happens to have a sorcery removal, feel free to cast it at something else.
So, your opponent has to topdeck new removal or deal with a 13/13 flying trampler without it.
Agreed. Every time I hear someone say 'Well, it dies to removal', I kind of don't get it. Many creatures die to removal, does that mean we shouldn't play those creatures, no matter how good they are or they do?
5. an extra turn is just an extra card and "untap everything". that doesn't fix a turn where he made the worst possible decisions he could have made.
If just 1 turn fixes everything and deals with the 13/13 flying trampler monstrosity you just played, then you were so much behind you should have conceded before casting emrakul.
Again, I completely agree. An extra turn won't do your opponent any good if you sent their best creatures on suicide runs, waste their removal on other creatures, more than likely their own, or use up any spell or ability that really could have helped them. It's not that hard to wreck a board to the point that they have to focus on somehow recouping. And if they're recouping, well they're not exactly in a position to be doing much. Extra turns without proper board setup don't really mean anything.
In addition, you get to see their hand! This means that you know what they'll have left after you've spent time wrecking their resources and can start to plan accordingly if necessary.
If I understand correctly, you can look at their sideboard as well...not saying that will suddenly win you the current game, but it can help clarify what could be coming in for game 2.
This emrakul has been more underrated than any card on this forum
I will talk about the cons and counter spell those
#1 can be destoryed by sorrery speed spells: before you trash them when you control there turns? No you use their sorcerys on their own stuff stuff
#2 you can counter this emrakul: first of all 80% of the time that's only a fear if you facing a deck with blue. Second of all you get the mind control turn countered or not because it's a cast trigger. (Except if they got a "you have hexproof" enchantment on the field ofcoarse but those are rare to see on battles.)
#3 only protection from instants and not hexproof: correct but however excluding counter spells almost all of the instants that can get emrakul off the battlefield can't be used, and that's most of the best removals. And let's not forget other stuff you can bring out to add hexproof to Newrakul (especially if you reduced the cost to cast her)
#5 they get the extra turn: I'm pretty sure most of the time their hands will be trash on that turn, and also the draw will most likely be a land because of odds, in other words it's not exactly an extra turn if you got rid of everything that can save them, plus you could combo in EDH with Stranglehold or Ugin's Nexus
#6 emrakul can be killed quickly: Kozilek, the great distortionhas the same problem but not complaining? And the counter thing is only for emergencies only. and it has to be the exact same cost as the spell.
#7 just flying and trample: I see you didn't read the flying part again and they need flyers and a army to kill emrakul, and not to mention trample makes the extra damage slice threw the blockers. And I'm pretty sure you sac his/her dudes or killed them by false attack on the mindcontroll turn.
Your just saying it's pathetic because your compairing that version to Emrakul, the Aeons torn and also by most of you refuse to accept that eldrazis are now invading innistrad (but not as many as BFZ and OGW they confirmed that.) and finally ofcoarse newrakul is immensely weaker today they had to make sure not to go overkill like they did with tons of cards from the past and oldrakul is one of them.
So stop comparing. (Especially because this version does not have the biggest annihilate in the whole magic the gathering. They had to remove that it was too powerful.)
If I understand correctly, you can look at their sideboard as well...not saying that will suddenly win you the current game, but it can help clarify what could be coming in for game 2.
It is true. You can do that. New Emrakul's tactical advantages are what really puts this card over.
I guess my biggest disappointment with the card is really the fact is lacks good protection. Hexproof was really what I was looking for on this card (It makes sense... I mean it's a pretty big extraplanar god, it should be harder to deal with than hitting it with any sorcery removal or ability). I know it has protection from sorceries in terms of taking their turn, but it would have been much more satisfying knowing that she couldn't be brought down with Pacifism. It would not have been that difficult, or game-breaking to put Hexproof on her instead of that cheap protection from instants clause. After all, she still wouldn't have been as overpowered as her old version, but likely just as satisfying.
I think it's a big problem that it dies to removal, and I think the argument is valid in this case because it makes ZERO sense to have a creature of this mythic caliber, a world eating monster, get taken down by some cheap spells. It just doesn't make sense. If she could be brought down by, idk, Pacifism, don't you think someone on Zendikar would have done something about it? I am not saying this is a bad card because it dies to removal. It's a great card. But the idea of it is heavily flawed in terms of story power level vs actual card power level because it can be brought down by such weak removal, which is me is a fail. I just expect a lot of feel-bad moments when she is played and someone takes her out with some cheap removal.
If I understand correctly, you can look at their sideboard as well...not saying that will suddenly win you the current game, but it can help clarify what could be coming in for game 2.
It is true. You can do that. New Emrakul's tactical advantages are what really puts this card over.
when you cast Emrakul people will insta concede though...
unless they're really confident they can win the match regardless of you controlling a turn and having a 13/13 flying trampler.
Most of time, when cast at game 1, unless Emrakul user is really behind or the turn he controls would be really irrelevant, I doubt in a competitive environment, you'll EVER actually control the other guy.
you'll just get the win on the spot and proceed to game 2.
It's not an extra turn for your opponent, though. It's their normal turn. Effectively, /you/ took the extra turn before they even got their normal turn, AND you got to use it to mash their board! Even if Em was countered!
This card is bonkers strong. It /will/ see Standard play, and the only reason I'm not willing to say it'll see Modern play is because I'm not very familiar with that format. This is Newlamog all over again.
I just expect a lot of feel-bad moments when she is played and someone takes her out with some cheap removal.
Any way that Em dies to removal still probably works out in the caster's favor. Counters, instant non-targetting removal, and non-instant removal (flashed enchantments, activated abilities, etc.) still let you screw up your opponent's board state. Sorcery removal can't be played until you've trashed the board... and they'd have to topdeck it for you not to at least know it's coming. Heck, you might have even used it on their stuff!
The best stuff against her is probably discard and other forms of hand control, and that's hit-or-miss.
There are many, many games where all it takes is one bad turn to skew it toward one player, and Em practically guarantees it once she's been cast. The only cases where it wouldn't (the only stuff you can do with your opponent's cards would help them) are vanishingly rare, and even then if that's the case they're probably /way/ behind anyways.
That's a lot of very good protection, in my eyes. Yeah, you might end the turn without a 13/13 Flampler, but good lord it's still a value train.
This emrakul has been more underrated than any card on this forum
I will talk about the cons and counter spell those
#1 can be destoryed by sorrery speed spells: before you trash them when you control there turns? No you use their sorcerys on their own stuff stuff
#2 you can counter this emrakul: first of all 80% of the time that's only a fear if you facing a deck with blue. Second of all you get the mind control turn countered or not because it's a cast trigger. (Except if they got a "you have hexproof" enchantment on the field ofcoarse but those are rare to see on battles.)
#3 only protection from instants and not hexproof: correct but however excluding counter spells almost all of the instants that can get emrakul off the battlefield can't be used, and that's most of the best removals. And let's not forget other stuff you can bring out to add hexproof to Newrakul (especially if you reduced the cost to cast her)
#5 they get the extra turn: I'm pretty sure most of the time their hands will be trash on that turn, and also the draw will most likely be a land because of odds, in other words it's not exactly an extra turn if you got rid of everything that can save them, plus you could combo in EDH with Stranglehold or Ugin's Nexus
#6 emrakul can be killed quickly: Kozilek, the great distortionhas the same problem but not complaining? And the counter thing is only for emergencies only. and it has to be the exact same cost as the spell.
#7 just flying and trample: I see you didn't read the flying part again and they need flyers and a army to kill emrakul, and not to mention trample makes the extra damage slice threw the blockers. And I'm pretty sure you sac his/her dudes or killed them by false attack on the mindcontroll turn.
The only thing people seem to be acting like, QQ not Annihilator 6. We know that annihilator won't be used. Using the opponents turn to swing into him is HUGE. You can totally screw up the board. Also he has TONS of flavor.
Unlike Ulamog I feel the only weakness is he is a little more situational.
Think people are overestimating it's ability to protect itself
As far as sorcery speed... well you wont be able to get rid of it all necessarily and mass removal/bounce it wont matter
For instant speed... I mean one of the most popular decks in standard uses repeatable instant speed bounce. And then because of cards like westvale abbey clipped wings and stasis snare have seen a bit more play. There are others that aren't used but might start if this becomes an issue
Instant speed bounce just means she can be cast again. The pseudo-mindslaver effect is a cast trigger. Bring it on, that's free card advantage for /me/.
I guess my biggest disappointment with the card is really the fact is lacks good protection. Hexproof was really what I was looking for on this card (It makes sense... I mean it's a pretty big extraplanar god, it should be harder to deal with than hitting it with any sorcery removal or ability). I know it has protection from sorceries in terms of taking their turn, but it would have been much more satisfying knowing that she couldn't be brought down with Pacifism. It would not have been that difficult, or game-breaking to put Hexproof on her instead of that cheap protection from instants clause. After all, she still wouldn't have been as overpowered as her old version, but likely just as satisfying.
I think it's a big problem that it dies to removal, and I think the argument is valid in this case because it makes ZERO sense to have a creature of this mythic caliber, a world eating monster, get taken down by some cheap spells. It just doesn't make sense. If she could be brought down by, idk, Pacifism, don't you think someone on Zendikar would have done something about it? I am not saying this is a bad card because it dies to removal. It's a great card. But the idea of it is heavily flawed in terms of story power level vs actual card power level because it can be brought down by such weak removal, which is me is a fail. I just expect a lot of feel-bad moments when she is played and someone takes her out with some cheap removal.
I agree with the Hexproof sentiment. Going through the hoops to get her cost down and casting her without being uncounterable, only to have a topdecked sorcery, or one left over b/c you couldn't cast everything on the controlled turn, take out EM is frustrating.
Would a Flying, Trample, Hexproof 13/13 be too powerful? We're talking about the strongest titan, who has already caused sooooo much pain to a world just by being near it. And now EM has fully manifested. I'd like to know my investment of including EM in my deck was safer with Hexproof. I'm still super excited to play it, though!
This emrakul has been more underrated than any card on this forum
I will talk about the cons and counter spell those
#1 can be destoryed by sorrery speed spells: before you trash them when you control there turns? No you use their sorcerys on their own stuff stuff
#2 you can counter this emrakul: first of all 80% of the time that's only a fear if you facing a deck with blue. Second of all you get the mind control turn countered or not because it's a cast trigger. (Except if they got a "you have hexproof" enchantment on the field ofcoarse but those are rare to see on battles.)
#3 only protection from instants and not hexproof: correct but however excluding counter spells almost all of the instants that can get emrakul off the battlefield can't be used, and that's most of the best removals. And let's not forget other stuff you can bring out to add hexproof to Newrakul (especially if you reduced the cost to cast her)
#5 they get the extra turn: I'm pretty sure most of the time their hands will be trash on that turn, and also the draw will most likely be a land because of odds, in other words it's not exactly an extra turn if you got rid of everything that can save them, plus you could combo in EDH with Stranglehold or Ugin's Nexus
#6 emrakul can be killed quickly: Kozilek, the great distortionhas the same problem but not complaining? And the counter thing is only for emergencies only. and it has to be the exact same cost as the spell.
#7 just flying and trample: I see you didn't read the flying part again and they need flyers and a army to kill emrakul, and not to mention trample makes the extra damage slice threw the blockers. And I'm pretty sure you sac his/her dudes or killed them by false attack on the mindcontroll turn.
The only thing people seem to be acting like, QQ not Annihilator 6. We know that annihilator won't be used. Using the opponents turn to swing into him is HUGE. You can totally screw up the board. Also he has TONS of flavor.
Unlike Ulamog I feel the only weakness is he is a little more situational.
In other words he is really STRONG.
Yep
Thanks for reminding me on the whole annihilate removed thing I added it.
A ton of removal kill Emrakul in this format and some decks cannot really be destroyed with the Mindslaver, as you can just run a creature into suicide (so hopefully you have more than Emrakul, then it becomes much stronger).
The biggest selling point is the cost reduction.
You want to reduce the cost as much as possible, like by 7 or even 8, which wont be the case in standard.
If you can do that, it becomes a pretty strong 5-6 drop which will end the game quickly enough and deal damage, especially in older formats (where instant removal is more of a thing and fetchlands and the like offer extra potential to mindslaver actions).
That way or not, the card is solid, but its not "busted".
But I'm wondering really is why? What's making it or breaking for you about this card.
Personally: I think it does Emrakul justice considering what it used to be. By that, I mean that the old Emrakul felt too much like 'I win' button and makes for really not so fun games. The new feels powerful but isn't the be all, end all to big powerful creatures. It's got an impressive array of abilities but has more weaknesses and seem like it will take much more thought to get the most out it.
Also there's one thing I think most of us can agree on: DAT ART!
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The only thing this lacks in comparison to the original is NOT annihilator, it's the "This can't be countered" clause, THAT was made the original Emrakul possible to hardcast and have all the thing for paying the damn 15 mana there.
Such as? No, seriously, I'm a bit disconnected from the standard metagame...
Fan of Both old and new Slivers (But the new ones are still better anyway)
C Call of Emrakul - G vs R DD: Elves vs. Goblins - W vs B DD: Divine vs. Demonic - WUB Esper Artifice - RGW Aura Dancers
WUBRG Wrath of the Reaper King - WB Men of Faith - B Mercenaries - UB Phyrexian Assault 2.0 - WU Artifacts of Empires
BR Skeleton Warriors - RG Night of The Howlpack - B Bog Murderers - BR Eldrazi Assault - BGU Ulamog's Swarm
If she got haste, I think she would have to lose trample. I mean 13/13 flying, trample, mindslaver, capable of reducing casting cost, protection from instants and haste? It makes her a little too similar to the Aeons Torn. Also, while she is easier to kill than before, she can also be reanimated which is a plus.
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I think the original set the bar so high that people kind of expected this new version to either be more powerful or just as powerful and it makes her feel not as good.
I agree with you about removal. I'm really only an EDH player, so my knowledge on other formats is limited. However, I like to think that her mindslaver can counter removal to a degree. Most removals that I know about are instants (which she has protection from barring some exceptions) or are sorceries that you won't have to initially worry about. The mindslaver gives you tactical options to either make someone waste such removal or be put into such a bad state that even if they get rid of Emrakul, it's a pyrrhic victory.
But those are just my thoughts.
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I dont think hes blocked by too much. Even if, still Trample & a 9 - 10 Mana 13/13 body with Instant Protection is more you can ask for. Really
But Extra turn for opponent is the only thing i dislike & think wasnt neccesary at all.
1. Dies to removal is not an argument for a card to be bad. This one even avoids A LOT of said removal. and if you cast it, you gain control of your opponent's turn... if he happens to have a sorcery removal, feel free to cast it at something else.
So, your opponent has to topdeck new removal or deal with a 13/13 flying trampler without it.
2. How many times have you seen people with enough blockers to stop 13 power in the air? Seriously. and that after they made a REALLY bad attack in the turn before and Emrakul blocked and killed his best dude... this point makes no sense whatsoever.
3. And still, he'll be a 13/13 flying trample monstrosity with "ruin target player next turn" attached to it for 10 or something, which is... well, not bad.
4. well, by that logic, almost all hardcasted bombs in magic history are bad. Even so, Emrakul will let you control the next turn of your opponent and try your best to ruin his board position even if it's Counterspelled and that's huge.
5. an extra turn is just an extra card and "untap everything". that doesn't fix a turn where he made the worst possible decisions he could have made.
If just 1 turn fixes everything and deals with the 13/13 flying trampler monstrosity you just played, then you were so much behind you should have conceded before casting emrakul.
Is it a "worse mindslaver"? sure it is.
If it was a straight up mindslaver it would be A LOT better than the Time Walk effect the old Emrakul had.
Also sayin a 9-10 Mana 13/13 Trampling Flyer with Pro Instants is to handle in combat seems naive, since you will likely lose some creatures anyway running into your fatties, during corrupted turn. & for that manacost you cant ask for more.
I really dislike though that opponent gets an Extrs turn !
And yes I agree, that art is amazing!!!
Agreed. Every time I hear someone say 'Well, it dies to removal', I kind of don't get it. Many creatures die to removal, does that mean we shouldn't play those creatures, no matter how good they are or they do?
Again, I completely agree. An extra turn won't do your opponent any good if you sent their best creatures on suicide runs, waste their removal on other creatures, more than likely their own, or use up any spell or ability that really could have helped them. It's not that hard to wreck a board to the point that they have to focus on somehow recouping. And if they're recouping, well they're not exactly in a position to be doing much. Extra turns without proper board setup don't really mean anything.
In addition, you get to see their hand! This means that you know what they'll have left after you've spent time wrecking their resources and can start to plan accordingly if necessary.
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This emrakul has been more underrated than any card on this forum
I will talk about the cons and counter spell those
#1 can be destoryed by sorrery speed spells: before you trash them when you control there turns? No you use their sorcerys on their own stuff stuff
#2 you can counter this emrakul: first of all 80% of the time that's only a fear if you facing a deck with blue. Second of all you get the mind control turn countered or not because it's a cast trigger. (Except if they got a "you have hexproof" enchantment on the field ofcoarse but those are rare to see on battles.)
#3 only protection from instants and not hexproof: correct but however excluding counter spells almost all of the instants that can get emrakul off the battlefield can't be used, and that's most of the best removals. And let's not forget other stuff you can bring out to add hexproof to Newrakul (especially if you reduced the cost to cast her)
#4 There's no way we will get the cost reduced to under 9: I'll do a standard one (a will do a GR deck
Artifact and creature at the same time. hedron crawler(-2)
Land. Evolving wilds or Sanctum of Ugin (-1)
Instant. Expedite or Kozilek's return or Warping wail(-1)
Enchantment. most likely Oath of Nissa (-1)
Creature. any weak begining creature (if no hedron crawler) (-1)
Artifact. Hedron Archive (if no hedron crawler) (-1)
Planeswalker. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar or Chandra, Flamecaller(ps the 0 locality will help) (-1)
Sorcery. Explosive vegetation or Ruin in their wake or Animist's awakening or Sylvan Scrying (-1)
Hmm looks pretty easy to reduce the cost immensely low to me.
And plus you can throw in these for other formats
Eye of Ugin (-2)
Urza's incubator (-2)
conduit of ruin (-2)
Cloud key (-1)
#5 they get the extra turn: I'm pretty sure most of the time their hands will be trash on that turn, and also the draw will most likely be a land because of odds, in other words it's not exactly an extra turn if you got rid of everything that can save them, plus you could combo in EDH with Stranglehold or Ugin's Nexus
#6 emrakul can be killed quickly: Kozilek, the great distortionhas the same problem but not complaining? And the counter thing is only for emergencies only. and it has to be the exact same cost as the spell.
#7 just flying and trample: I see you didn't read the flying part again and they need flyers and a army to kill emrakul, and not to mention trample makes the extra damage slice threw the blockers. And I'm pretty sure you sac his/her dudes or killed them by false attack on the mindcontroll turn.
So basicly is this Emrakul, the promised end is way better than some of you think.
Your just saying it's pathetic because your compairing that version to Emrakul, the Aeons torn and also by most of you refuse to accept that eldrazis are now invading innistrad (but not as many as BFZ and OGW they confirmed that.) and finally ofcoarse newrakul is immensely weaker today they had to make sure not to go overkill like they did with tons of cards from the past and oldrakul is one of them.
So stop comparing. (Especially because this version does not have the biggest annihilate in the whole magic the gathering. They had to remove that it was too powerful.)
It is true. You can do that. New Emrakul's tactical advantages are what really puts this card over.
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I think it's a big problem that it dies to removal, and I think the argument is valid in this case because it makes ZERO sense to have a creature of this mythic caliber, a world eating monster, get taken down by some cheap spells. It just doesn't make sense. If she could be brought down by, idk, Pacifism, don't you think someone on Zendikar would have done something about it? I am not saying this is a bad card because it dies to removal. It's a great card. But the idea of it is heavily flawed in terms of story power level vs actual card power level because it can be brought down by such weak removal, which is me is a fail. I just expect a lot of feel-bad moments when she is played and someone takes her out with some cheap removal.
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when you cast Emrakul people will insta concede though...
unless they're really confident they can win the match regardless of you controlling a turn and having a 13/13 flying trampler.
Most of time, when cast at game 1, unless Emrakul user is really behind or the turn he controls would be really irrelevant, I doubt in a competitive environment, you'll EVER actually control the other guy.
you'll just get the win on the spot and proceed to game 2.
This card is bonkers strong. It /will/ see Standard play, and the only reason I'm not willing to say it'll see Modern play is because I'm not very familiar with that format. This is Newlamog all over again.
Any way that Em dies to removal still probably works out in the caster's favor. Counters, instant non-targetting removal, and non-instant removal (flashed enchantments, activated abilities, etc.) still let you screw up your opponent's board state. Sorcery removal can't be played until you've trashed the board... and they'd have to topdeck it for you not to at least know it's coming. Heck, you might have even used it on their stuff!
The best stuff against her is probably discard and other forms of hand control, and that's hit-or-miss.
There are many, many games where all it takes is one bad turn to skew it toward one player, and Em practically guarantees it once she's been cast. The only cases where it wouldn't (the only stuff you can do with your opponent's cards would help them) are vanishingly rare, and even then if that's the case they're probably /way/ behind anyways.
That's a lot of very good protection, in my eyes. Yeah, you might end the turn without a 13/13 Flampler, but good lord it's still a value train.
The only thing people seem to be acting like, QQ not Annihilator 6. We know that annihilator won't be used. Using the opponents turn to swing into him is HUGE. You can totally screw up the board. Also he has TONS of flavor.
Unlike Ulamog I feel the only weakness is he is a little more situational.
In other words he is really STRONG.
As far as sorcery speed... well you wont be able to get rid of it all necessarily and mass removal/bounce it wont matter
For instant speed... I mean one of the most popular decks in standard uses repeatable instant speed bounce. And then because of cards like westvale abbey clipped wings and stasis snare have seen a bit more play. There are others that aren't used but might start if this becomes an issue
I agree with the Hexproof sentiment. Going through the hoops to get her cost down and casting her without being uncounterable, only to have a topdecked sorcery, or one left over b/c you couldn't cast everything on the controlled turn, take out EM is frustrating.
Would a Flying, Trample, Hexproof 13/13 be too powerful? We're talking about the strongest titan, who has already caused sooooo much pain to a world just by being near it. And now EM has fully manifested. I'd like to know my investment of including EM in my deck was safer with Hexproof. I'm still super excited to play it, though!
Yep
Thanks for reminding me on the whole annihilate removed thing I added it.
A ton of removal kill Emrakul in this format and some decks cannot really be destroyed with the Mindslaver, as you can just run a creature into suicide (so hopefully you have more than Emrakul, then it becomes much stronger).
The biggest selling point is the cost reduction.
You want to reduce the cost as much as possible, like by 7 or even 8, which wont be the case in standard.
If you can do that, it becomes a pretty strong 5-6 drop which will end the game quickly enough and deal damage, especially in older formats (where instant removal is more of a thing and fetchlands and the like offer extra potential to mindslaver actions).
That way or not, the card is solid, but its not "busted".
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