It's a good set but they seriously underpowered the Eldrazi.
Without Emmy and Kozi the Eldrazi have spread themselves thin on Zendikar so even though they're turning stuff to dust the allies are able to band together and defeat them.
There's the flavor excuse however weak it might be but the fact remains that this is the big opportunity to print the sweet battlecruisers EDH Timmys love to play and they've been way too cautious. If things that cost 8-10 mana are really powered down then does it mean they'll be really easy to cast in standard?
I'd like to actually start playing with the set before passing judgement on the limited environment as it does look quite good.
It does seem like the quality of the rares is horrible but that's the usual these days. There will still be playables to be found.
The neutering of green mana and red burn makes me want to puke.
First they came for dark ritual and I did not speak out because I did not play fast mana.
Then they came for counterspell and I did not speak out because I did not play countermagic.
Then they came for stone rain and I did not speak out because I did not play land destruction.
Then they came for wrath of god and I did not speak out because I sometimes played regenerators.
Then they came for lightning bolt and I did not speak out because my neighbor said it was too good.
Then they came for ponder and preordain and I did not speak out because I did not play 1 mana cantrips.
Then they came for doom blade and I did not speak out because I did not care to destroy target creature.
Then they came for day of judgement and I did not speak out because I did not play sweepers.
Then they came for elvish mystic and there was no one left to speak for he.
Why so much hate? This is the rise of the uncommon I hoped for since they widened the number of uncommons. They are now the constructed backbone of the set, not the rares. This will reduce the price of building standard while expeditions keep pack prices high so wizards/secondaries/hoarders get what they want.
But for the love of Emeria... there are some STRONG DUDS in this set! The two colorless rare lands, Prism Network, Mega O-ring, almost all of the converge cards minus Bring to light and perhaps Woodland Wanderer are so GARBAGE! A lot of people are betting that Radiant Flames is gonna be great. I am not one of those people. Unless we get some super synergistic cards for the other half of the spoilers... I think I will just pre-order lands.
BS... We're coming out of a three color set. It's stupid easy to support a three color mana base. It's trivial to go 4 color and 5 color is doable. With that in mind while ignoring Woodland Wanderer and Bring to light, lets evaluate all the spoiled converge cards...
Exert influence - Don't forget how strong control effects are in standard. If our format remains defined by 4 power midrange beaters, than exert influence is very good. Could be mainboard in Salty Abzan.
Painful Truths - Draw three for three mana is great. Maybe not constructed playable, but edh players will use it. It's hardly garbage.
Prism Array - Garbage. I don't understand what this card is supposed to be for. Its terrible. My guess is this was supposed to be an uncommon but was hurting limited (somehow??) so they pumped it to rare. Alternatively, this may have been a completely different card that was broken in FFL so they may it trash rather than break the game.
Radiant Flames - Has three damage to everything for three mana ever not been playable? Calling this garbage is simply ignorant.
Skyrider Elf - It's a 2/2 flier for 2 and a 3/3 flier for three and a 4/4 flier for 4. It's also uncommon. How can you consider this Garbage.
If you are truly going 3-5 colors... would you want to run any of those cards? Abzan decks are pretty tight and there are plenty of replacements once rotation goes in to consider. No one is going to run to these cards for their multicolor decks. Read the Bones is a common, digs deep, gives you selection and you lose less life. Also playable in mono-black which painful truth is not (unless paying 3 life and 3 mana for 1 card is value town for you). Exert Influence... really? There hasn't been a strong permanent control effect in a Standard environment except for Red steal effects which are really swingy because of how cheap they are to cast. Skyrider elf is probably going to do great in Limited. I just don't see people wanting to run that card in standard. Specially if they have access to more colors. Perhaps Radiant flames just to have the need of being able to do 3 to everything. Doing 3 to everything has never been garbage. It is garbage however you when NEED to have 3 different types of colored mana to cast it and get no additional effect. Perhaps being spoiled by Anger of the Gods and Slagstorm is making me hate this card and sometimes you can only cast this card for only 2 damage when you want to cast it for 3 damage. A fickle burn AoE spell is not what I want.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
It blows. Hell, the next couple sets are going to be bad. Between nixing out core sets, and trying to fight off hearthstone and other competitors, Wotc's got its work cut out for them. I feel bad, but hey, if the mtg market crashes, there's still plenty of EDH fun to be had.
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Current Decks GGo Elf YourselfG WThat Cat Has A Knife!W BUGWhip your assBUG
If you've actually tested the new lands at all, then you know its correct to.
I'm not arguing that the converge cards are staples. I'm not even arguing that they will definitely see play. I think they might, that some will and some won't depending on how the meta shakes up. I'm simply arguing against your claim that they were "Garbage", a point you seem to have conceded.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
I'll use this thread to express my general disinterest in the upcoming block. I don't understand why we had to go back to Zendikar already. Maybe that's just me but I don't think the plane is very enthralling. There are Allies and Eldrazi, they fight, the end.
From a mechanical standpoint the set looks bland so far. I also don't like how the colors aren't very differentiated, all cards kinda do similar things.
This gets reflected in the artwork. Apart from Ulamog, I can't tell one eldrazi from another, they all look interchangeable to me.
I guess it's a bad sign if the most exciting thing so far for me are the basic lands in this set...
If you've actually tested the new lands at all, then you know its correct to.
I'm not arguing that the converge cards are staples. I'm not even arguing that they will definitely see play. I think they might, that some will and some won't depending on how the meta shakes up. I'm simply arguing against your claim that they were "Garbage", a point you seem to have conceded.
Cards that I am never going to put in my decks? Much like I don't want garbage in my house? Well I don't want garbage in my decks. So... yes they are garbage in every sense of the word.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
BFZ looks awesome. They're continuing to design for Limited-first rather than Constructed-first, which is excellent. From what we've seen so far, it's going to be a pretty good distribution of speed over Limited environments, and battlecruiser will be an option but not a requirement.
But for the love of Emeria... there are some STRONG DUDS in this set! The two colorless rare lands, Prism Network, Mega O-ring, almost all of the converge cards minus Bring to light and perhaps Woodland Wanderer are so GARBAGE! A lot of people are betting that Radiant Flames is gonna be great. I am not one of those people. Unless we get some super synergistic cards for the other half of the spoilers... I think I will just pre-order lands.
BS... We're coming out of a three color set. It's stupid easy to support a three color mana base. It's trivial to go 4 color and 5 color is doable. With that in mind while ignoring Woodland Wanderer and Bring to light, lets evaluate all the spoiled converge cards...
Exert influence - Don't forget how strong control effects are in standard. If our format remains defined by 4 power midrange beaters, than exert influence is very good. Could be mainboard in Salty Abzan.
Painful Truths - Draw three for three mana is great. Maybe not constructed playable, but edh players will use it. It's hardly garbage.
Prism Array - Garbage. I don't understand what this card is supposed to be for. Its terrible. My guess is this was supposed to be an uncommon but was hurting limited (somehow??) so they pumped it to rare. Alternatively, this may have been a completely different card that was broken in FFL so they may it trash rather than break the game.
Radiant Flames - Has three damage to everything for three mana ever not been playable? Calling this garbage is simply ignorant.
Skyrider Elf - It's a 2/2 flier for 2 and a 3/3 flier for three and a 4/4 flier for 4. It's also uncommon. How can you consider this Garbage.
If you are truly going 3-5 colors... would you want to run any of those cards? Abzan decks are pretty tight and there are plenty of replacements once rotation goes in to consider. No one is going to run to these cards for their multicolor decks. Read the Bones is a common, digs deep, gives you selection and you lose less life. Also playable in mono-black which painful truth is not (unless paying 3 life and 3 mana for 1 card is value town for you). Exert Influence... really? There hasn't been a strong permanent control effect in a Standard environment except for Red steal effects which are really swingy because of how cheap they are to cast. Skyrider elf is probably going to do great in Limited. I just don't see people wanting to run that card in standard. Specially if they have access to more colors. Perhaps Radiant flames just to have the need of being able to do 3 to everything. Doing 3 to everything has never been garbage. It is garbage however you when NEED to have 3 different types of colored mana to cast it and get no additional effect. Perhaps being spoiled by Anger of the Gods and Slagstorm is making me hate this card and sometimes you can only cast this card for only 2 damage when you want to cast it for 3 damage. A fickle burn AoE spell is not what I want.
To be fair, Painful Truths seems very good. Radiant Flames is probably going to be a strong playable too, even if I'd much rather just keep Anger around or have Pyroclasm.
Abysmal average rare quality. Not every rare you opened in Magic Origins was a constructed staple, but there were a lot of cards that made you wonder "Hmm... I wonder how I can make that work." Here you open them and think "Yeah, I know exactly where this is supposed to belong, but I don't even think I want it there." Which is the more exciting "casual" rare, Exert Influence or Talent of the Telepath?
I agree with this 100%
It doesn't bother me that the cards aren't playable in other formats, its just that they're not interesting. They're flat, and I would outright not play them over some other cards that I already own, which is okay for some cards, but for most cards, no. Most of the cards I have seen I look at and decide that I would probably never like to play that card because it doesn't interest me in any way. I'm no spike player, either...
I also canceled a case order as the above poster said. The cards here are terrible, and maybe they spoiled the bad ones first, but I don't think there is enough left to make it good. There has been one merfolk spoiled, and I want one copy of the new Ulamog. What a complete disappointment. The full art lands are nice, but you know the expeditions were a last minute o S#it moment when they realized the set was bad.
I've been a member for 8 years now and threads of this nature are pretty much routine. I'm usually of the lets wait and evaluate opinion but from what we've seen so far, BFZ is making it difficult. I'm primarily a Modern player these days but even when adjusting your expectations to Standard, nothing here is really jumping out at me. Walkers seem to have some talent. Hopefully we can get one more manland this set.
Usually there is something that I'll try cramming into my Modern decks because it's shiny and new (all while knowing it's probably making me run on a sub optimal level). Haven't had hat feeling yet.
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GP Singapore Coverage:What did you have for breakfast this morning?
What is the DEAL with people posting non-rumor threads in the Rumor Mill? This main forum is for spoiling cards and other products. I'm getting sick and tired of people making threads in this forum that don't belong here.
Do you realize that rumors are not really allowed in the rumor thread? An official spoiler is not a rumor. Mark Rosewater blatantly stating something on his Tumblr isnt a rumor. A con panel or segment from PT coverage is not a rumor. Rumors are not allowed in the Rumor Mill.
What are you on about? Those are all things that belong in the rumor mill. A thread complaining about other people complaining about how this is the "worst set ever" does not.
I won't comment on power of this set since it isn't completely spoiled but I will say this is probably the most uninspired set I've ever seen. Mechanics, the art, just everything seems so generic and blah. Which is fine because it's another year I save money not having to buy cards. Not even going to a prerelease.
the only real quality card that i saw was Horribly Awry it counters just about everything in modern and the countered spell does not feed goyf and it can't be snapped back
Lets discuss my expectations:
1) Observing BFZ, I am having the impression that BFZ is focus on Eldrazi while OGW is focus on Zendikar(?).
2) BFZ Ulamog vs WW Ulamog vs Tron: Yes, I understand Tron players being excited but whatever Ulamog 1.0 was doing, Ulamog 2.0 was doing nothing better.
3) Eldrazi Spawn vs Eldrazi Scion: Both equally lame. Best chump blocker ever.
4) Devoid: This is 1 of the factors I like, being a new mechanics.
5) Ally: Yeah! to Ally wannabe.
Overall, not saying whether BFZ is good or bad, but the hype train crashed early for me and BFZ. At least I think BFZ is focus on Limited?! I don't see much for Commander and Modern.
the only real quality card that i saw was Horribly Awry it counters just about everything in modern and the countered spell does not feed goyf and it can't be snapped back
The neutering of green mana and red burn makes me want to puke.
First they came for dark ritual and I did not speak out because I did not play fast mana.
Then they came for counterspell and I did not speak out because I did not play countermagic.
Then they came for stone rain and I did not speak out because I did not play land destruction.
Then they came for wrath of god and I did not speak out because I sometimes played regenerators.
Then they came for lightning bolt and I did not speak out because my neighbor said it was too good.
Then they came for ponder and preordain and I did not speak out because I did not play 1 mana cantrips.
Then they came for doom blade and I did not speak out because I did not care to destroy target creature.
Then they came for day of judgement and I did not speak out because I did not play sweepers.
Then they came for elvish mystic and there was no one left to speak for he.
Very well said. Here's hoping power level will be raised soon, it should be cyclical but I do hope this set/block is the bottom.
the only real quality card that i saw was Horribly Awry it counters just about everything in modern and the countered spell does not feed goyf and it can't be snapped back
the only real quality card that i saw was Horribly Awry it counters just about everything in modern and the countered spell does not feed goyf and it can't be snapped back
While exile has some value, I don't see how a restrictive Essence Scatter has any Modern value.
What's the average mana cost of creatures in modern ?
It hits a lot of the creatures played, but it misses a few major ones: Tasigur, Angler, Wurmcoil, PrimeTime. The only thing it really shuts off that Essence Scatter (a card that sees no play) doesn't is K-Command targeting Snapcaster.
the only real quality card that i saw was Horribly Awry it counters just about everything in modern and the countered spell does not feed goyf and it can't be snapped back
While exile has some value, I don't see how a restrictive Essence Scatter has any Modern value.
I kept having to re-read that card because I can't believe that needed to plop 2 major restrictions on it since its "devoid" and exiling. If last breath could see play in standard maybe this can but I am highly doubting it.
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Without Emmy and Kozi the Eldrazi have spread themselves thin on Zendikar so even though they're turning stuff to dust the allies are able to band together and defeat them.
There's the flavor excuse however weak it might be but the fact remains that this is the big opportunity to print the sweet battlecruisers EDH Timmys love to play and they've been way too cautious. If things that cost 8-10 mana are really powered down then does it mean they'll be really easy to cast in standard?
I'd like to actually start playing with the set before passing judgement on the limited environment as it does look quite good.
It does seem like the quality of the rares is horrible but that's the usual these days. There will still be playables to be found.
First they came for dark ritual and I did not speak out because I did not play fast mana.
Then they came for counterspell and I did not speak out because I did not play countermagic.
Then they came for stone rain and I did not speak out because I did not play land destruction.
Then they came for wrath of god and I did not speak out because I sometimes played regenerators.
Then they came for lightning bolt and I did not speak out because my neighbor said it was too good.
Then they came for ponder and preordain and I did not speak out because I did not play 1 mana cantrips.
Then they came for doom blade and I did not speak out because I did not care to destroy target creature.
Then they came for day of judgement and I did not speak out because I did not play sweepers.
Then they came for elvish mystic and there was no one left to speak for he.
Junk
Naya Burn
Naya Zoo
8-Whack
Fish (ON)
If you are truly going 3-5 colors... would you want to run any of those cards? Abzan decks are pretty tight and there are plenty of replacements once rotation goes in to consider. No one is going to run to these cards for their multicolor decks. Read the Bones is a common, digs deep, gives you selection and you lose less life. Also playable in mono-black which painful truth is not (unless paying 3 life and 3 mana for 1 card is value town for you). Exert Influence... really? There hasn't been a strong permanent control effect in a Standard environment except for Red steal effects which are really swingy because of how cheap they are to cast. Skyrider elf is probably going to do great in Limited. I just don't see people wanting to run that card in standard. Specially if they have access to more colors. Perhaps Radiant flames just to have the need of being able to do 3 to everything. Doing 3 to everything has never been garbage. It is garbage however you when NEED to have 3 different types of colored mana to cast it and get no additional effect. Perhaps being spoiled by Anger of the Gods and Slagstorm is making me hate this card and sometimes you can only cast this card for only 2 damage when you want to cast it for 3 damage. A fickle burn AoE spell is not what I want.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
It blows. Hell, the next couple sets are going to be bad. Between nixing out core sets, and trying to fight off hearthstone and other competitors, Wotc's got its work cut out for them. I feel bad, but hey, if the mtg market crashes, there's still plenty of EDH fun to be had.
GGo Elf YourselfG
WThat Cat Has A Knife!W
BUGWhip your assBUG
I'm not arguing that the converge cards are staples. I'm not even arguing that they will definitely see play. I think they might, that some will and some won't depending on how the meta shakes up. I'm simply arguing against your claim that they were "Garbage", a point you seem to have conceded.
- Manite
From a mechanical standpoint the set looks bland so far. I also don't like how the colors aren't very differentiated, all cards kinda do similar things.
This gets reflected in the artwork. Apart from Ulamog, I can't tell one eldrazi from another, they all look interchangeable to me.
I guess it's a bad sign if the most exciting thing so far for me are the basic lands in this set...
Cards that I am never going to put in my decks? Much like I don't want garbage in my house? Well I don't want garbage in my decks. So... yes they are garbage in every sense of the word.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
To be fair, Painful Truths seems very good. Radiant Flames is probably going to be a strong playable too, even if I'd much rather just keep Anger around or have Pyroclasm.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
I agree with this 100%
It doesn't bother me that the cards aren't playable in other formats, its just that they're not interesting. They're flat, and I would outright not play them over some other cards that I already own, which is okay for some cards, but for most cards, no. Most of the cards I have seen I look at and decide that I would probably never like to play that card because it doesn't interest me in any way. I'm no spike player, either...
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Usually there is something that I'll try cramming into my Modern decks because it's shiny and new (all while knowing it's probably making me run on a sub optimal level). Haven't had hat feeling yet.
David Ochoa: "Mono-bacon!..."
What are you on about? Those are all things that belong in the rumor mill. A thread complaining about other people complaining about how this is the "worst set ever" does not.
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
snapcaster mage
tarmogoyf
[center][color=Blue]
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
Lets discuss my expectations:
1) Observing BFZ, I am having the impression that BFZ is focus on Eldrazi while OGW is focus on Zendikar(?).
2) BFZ Ulamog vs WW Ulamog vs Tron: Yes, I understand Tron players being excited but whatever Ulamog 1.0 was doing, Ulamog 2.0 was doing nothing better.
3) Eldrazi Spawn vs Eldrazi Scion: Both equally lame. Best chump blocker ever.
4) Devoid: This is 1 of the factors I like, being a new mechanics.
5) Ally: Yeah! to Ally wannabe.
Overall, not saying whether BFZ is good or bad, but the hype train crashed early for me and BFZ. At least I think BFZ is focus on Limited?! I don't see much for Commander and Modern.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/new-card-discussion/632861-bfz-vs-roe-zen-poll
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/new-card-discussion/631676-original-zendikar-vs-battle-for-zendikar-overall
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/new-card-discussion/633109-this-set-is-the-worst-magic-set
Plus one archived from the Rumor Mill?
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
While exile has some value, I don't see how a restrictive Essence Scatter has any Modern value.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Very well said. Here's hoping power level will be raised soon, it should be cyclical but I do hope this set/block is the bottom.
What's the average mana cost of creatures in modern ?
It hits a lot of the creatures played, but it misses a few major ones: Tasigur, Angler, Wurmcoil, PrimeTime. The only thing it really shuts off that Essence Scatter (a card that sees no play) doesn't is K-Command targeting Snapcaster.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
I agree with the sentiment that the commons and uncommons are more appealing than the rares.
Scour from existence is my favorite card spoiled so far.
I kept having to re-read that card because I can't believe that needed to plop 2 major restrictions on it since its "devoid" and exiling. If last breath could see play in standard maybe this can but I am highly doubting it.