Maybe I'm alone in my opinions, or maybe I'm stating the obvious. But, is it just me, or is Manifest one of the stupidest mechanics to come out in recent memory? I could have understood Morph, even though it really wasn't that great. Morph was useful for having a lowered flip cost (most of the time), letting you get out creatures you didn't have mana for at the time, and flipping them up the second that you do, usually with an added effect. It was also a rather fun thing in KTK draft, because people never knew what you had face-down, and it really (again) helped with the mana cost. If you were running tri-color, a pretty common thing, then you wouldn't always have the right colors. You could still have a 2/2 out there, and wait for your needed color to come. Manifest takes away any benefit Morph had, save for an OCCASIONAL lowered cost to put it facedown. Firstly, I haven't seen a single Manifest card that wasn't, in my opinion, at a fair cost. All of them usually 2-4 cmc, sometimes with an added ability that's little more than useless. "Oh, did you want just a 2/2? Well, for just 3 colorless and 1 G, you can have a 3/3! And at Sorcery speed, too!" Looking at you, Formless Nurturing. Then there's the whole "top card of your library"" bull. I'm sorry, were you looking to play your new Temporal Trespass? How about that shiny Ugin you just got? Well, as the late Billy Mays would've put it, "Not anymore!". Sadly, we can't just Oxyclean this crap away. But my biggest problem is that it's being paraded on cards, especially Mythics and Rares, like it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's taking up valuable space on cards that could have been good, or at least much better than they currently are. Can anyone give me some upsides to Manifest? If so, please do.
Maybe I'm alone in my opinions, or maybe I'm stating the obvious. But, is it just me, or is Manifest one of the stupidest mechanics to come out in recent memory? I could have understood Morph, even though it really wasn't that great. Morph was useful for having a lowered flip cost (most of the time), letting you get out creatures you didn't have mana for at the time, and flipping them up the second that you do, usually with an added effect. It was also a rather fun thing in KTK draft, because people never knew what you had face-down, and it really (again) helped with the mana cost. If you were running tri-color, a pretty common thing, then you wouldn't always have the right colors. You could still have a 2/2 out there, and wait for your needed color to come. Manifest takes away any benefit Morph had, save for an OCCASIONAL lowered cost to put it facedown.
A) Manifest = Morph. You just can't unmorph your noncreatures. If it is a creature you can unmorph it.
B) You can cheat big creatures into play with a cheap manifest spell. You basically treat your top card of your library as part of your hand. As long as you got the mana to unmorph it which is its mana cost unless it already had an unmorph cost that is which would be cheaper. Also being able to cheat Phage the Untouchable, creatures with drawbacks for entering play, yet without her "enters the battlefield" trigger... triggering.
Firstly, I haven't seen a single Manifest card that wasn't, in my opinion, at a fair cost. All of them usually 2-4 cmc, sometimes with an added ability that's little more than useless. "Oh, did you want just a 2/2? Well, for just 3 colorless and 1 G, you can have a 3/3! And at Sorcery speed, too!" Looking at you, Formless Nurturing.
Formless Nurturing can be run in an Abzan (Outlast / Bolster) deck or Temur (Ferocious) deck.
Also WildCall can be used to turn a horrible top deck into a late game threat. You could very well be stuck in a land pocket and now by paying say GG or 2GG or 4GG or even 6GG if you got that kind of mana, you can have a 2/2 or 4/4 or 6/6 or 8/8 that was really a land all along.
Then there's the whole "top card of your library"" bull. I'm sorry, were you looking to play your new Temporal Trespass? How about that shiny Ugin you just got? Well, as the late Billy Mays would've put it, "Not anymore!". Sadly, we can't just Oxyclean this crap away.
Courser of Kruphix says "Hello, Courser here! Tired of losing your goodstuff to unforeseen manifests? Tired of constantly wondering what would happen if you manifested the wrong card? Well I get the solution for you for just one easy payment of 1GG so you to can be ahead of the curve!"
But my biggest problem is that it's being paraded on cards, especially Mythics and Rares, like it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's taking up valuable space on cards that could have been good, or at least much better than they currently are. Can anyone give me some upsides to Manifest? If so, please do.
Trail of Mystery = Every time you manifest you now Rampant Growth as well. Secret Plans = Every time you manifest you get a 2/3 instead of a 2/2. If its a creature you can flip up, draw a card as well. Reality Shift = Exile your opponent's Stormbreath Dragon or Siege Rhino. Unless your opponent is luckier than a 4-leaf clover, you may have manifested their planeswalker or a removal spell which is now considered a dead card.
Maybe I'm alone in my opinions, or maybe I'm stating the obvious. But, is it just me, or is Manifest one of the stupidest mechanics to come out in recent memory? I could have understood Morph, even though it really wasn't that great. Morph was useful for having a lowered flip cost (most of the time), letting you get out creatures you didn't have mana for at the time, and flipping them up the second that you do, usually with an added effect. It was also a rather fun thing in KTK draft, because people never knew what you had face-down, and it really (again) helped with the mana cost. If you were running tri-color, a pretty common thing, then you wouldn't always have the right colors. You could still have a 2/2 out there, and wait for your needed color to come. Manifest takes away any benefit Morph had, save for an OCCASIONAL lowered cost to put it facedown. Firstly, I haven't seen a single Manifest card that wasn't, in my opinion, at a fair cost. All of them usually 2-4 cmc, sometimes with an added ability that's little more than useless. "Oh, did you want just a 2/2? Well, for just 3 colorless and 1 G, you can have a 3/3! And at Sorcery speed, too!" Looking at you, Formless Nurturing. Then there's the whole "top card of your library"" bull. I'm sorry, were you looking to play your new Temporal Trespass? How about that shiny Ugin you just got? Well, as the late Billy Mays would've put it, "Not anymore!". Sadly, we can't just Oxyclean this crap away. But my biggest problem is that it's being paraded on cards, especially Mythics and Rares, like it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's taking up valuable space on cards that could have been good, or at least much better than they currently are. Can anyone give me some upsides to Manifest? If so, please do.
Okay, I'll bite. In no particular order:
Manifest allows you to have non-creature spells that create creatures, triggering Prowess.
You offer a worst-case scenario of turning your noncreature bombs into 2/2s. You ignore the best case scenario of turning your excess basic lands into 2/2s.
It interacts extremely well with Flicker effects (as Morph has, historically - see Astral Slide decks).
It allows Morph creatures with high unmorph costs that unmorph for effect to cheat those costs.
It can function as a "cost" to performing effects like Reality Shift.
It does something new. It gets us thinking. It makes us reevaluate a ton of older cards. Manifest is patently not an all-upside mechanic, but nor is it an all-downside mechanic. That's really the best defense of it - it does something new and changes the game. It may break into constructed, or may remain a limited-only mechanic. We can't say just yet. But I don't think that we can just dismiss the mechanic as "dumb".
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One thing, which I think is interesting, is in KTK Limited we have become used to the "five mana rule" for face-down cards. Generally, in KTK Limited, one could block a face-down creature, and as long as your opponent had fewer than five untapped lands, you could be confidant you wouldn't be blown out. Even if he turned his guy face-up, it would still die. The worst case scenario was that you would simply trade your blocker for your opponent's guy.
This isn't true with manifested cards, there will be no simple rule to remember when we can safely block. I expect that will make KTK/FRF one of the most interesting limited environments we've had in a very long time.
Then there's the whole "top card of your library"" bull. I'm sorry, were you looking to play your new Temporal Trespass? How about that shiny Ugin you just got? Well, as the late Billy Mays would've put it, "Not anymore!". Sadly, we can't just Oxyclean this crap away.
This, like mill, is a feel-bad scenario that doesn't actually have a meaningful effect on the game. New players feel really bad when their good cards happen to get milled/manifested away, but unless you run through your entire deck, it's as neutral as shuffling your library. Aside from corner cases, there is essentially only possible upside on the 2/2 bear gained by manifest.
It adds consistency to limited decks, but at the same time granting random later blowouts. It's high variance at times, but rewards this to heavy creature builds in limited. It's always a 2/2 is the other way to look at this.
Also, manifesting is never really bad, as Locke said, it will just randomly feel bad sometimes just like it'll randomly get your bomb and win the game. Build your draft decks with high creature density is all there is to it, which shouldn't be a new idea.
Before I start, I'm not all that great with this forum's layout, so bear with me. Also, I should have clarified, but when I wrote this, I was thinking along the lines of Standard and Draft. Modern, Legacy, Vintage, you guys can do what you want, with your Dreadnoughts, Nyxathid's, and Horror's.
Maybe I'm alone in my opinions, or maybe I'm stating the obvious. But, is it just me, or is Manifest one of the stupidest mechanics to come out in recent memory? I could have understood Morph, even though it really wasn't that great. Morph was useful for having a lowered flip cost (most of the time), letting you get out creatures you didn't have mana for at the time, and flipping them up the second that you do, usually with an added effect. It was also a rather fun thing in KTK draft, because people never knew what you had face-down, and it really (again) helped with the mana cost. If you were running tri-color, a pretty common thing, then you wouldn't always have the right colors. You could still have a 2/2 out there, and wait for your needed color to come. Manifest takes away any benefit Morph had, save for an OCCASIONAL lowered cost to put it facedown.
A) Manifest = Morph. You just can't unmorph your noncreatures. If it is a creature you can unmorph it.
B) You can cheat big creatures into play with a cheap manifest spell. You basically treat your top card of your library as part of your hand. As long as you got the mana to unmorph it which is its mana cost unless it already had an unmorph cost that is which would be cheaper. Also being able to cheat Phage the Untouchable, creatures with drawbacks for entering play, yet without her "enters the battlefield" trigger... triggering.
Firstly, I haven't seen a single Manifest card that wasn't, in my opinion, at a fair cost. All of them usually 2-4 cmc, sometimes with an added ability that's little more than useless. "Oh, did you want just a 2/2? Well, for just 3 colorless and 1 G, you can have a 3/3! And at Sorcery speed, too!" Looking at you, Formless Nurturing.
Formless Nurturing can be run in an Abzan (Outlast / Bolster) deck or Temur (Ferocious) deck.
Also WildCall can be used to turn a horrible top deck into a late game threat. You could very well be stuck in a land pocket and now by paying say GG or 2GG or 4GG or even 6GG if you got that kind of mana, you can have a 2/2 or 4/4 or 6/6 or 8/8 that was really a land all along.
Then there's the whole "top card of your library"" bull. I'm sorry, were you looking to play your new Temporal Trespass? How about that shiny Ugin you just got? Well, as the late Billy Mays would've put it, "Not anymore!". Sadly, we can't just Oxyclean this crap away.
Courser of Kruphix says "Hello, Courser here! Tired of losing your goodstuff to unforeseen manifests? Tired of constantly wondering what would happen if you manifested the wrong card? Well I get the solution for you for just one easy payment of 1GG so you to can be ahead of the curve!"
But my biggest problem is that it's being paraded on cards, especially Mythics and Rares, like it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's taking up valuable space on cards that could have been good, or at least much better than they currently are. Can anyone give me some upsides to Manifest? If so, please do.
Trail of Mystery = Every time you manifest you now Rampant Growth as well. Secret Plans = Every time you manifest you get a 2/3 instead of a 2/2. If its a creature you can flip up, draw a card as well. Reality Shift = Exile your opponent's Stormbreath Dragon or Siege Rhino. Unless your opponent is luckier than a 4-leaf clover, you may have manifested their planeswalker or a removal spell which is now considered a dead card.
Firstly, talking strictly about Standard and Draft, who is there to cheat in? You're practically paying whatever it's cost is + 2 colorless. You may say that Morph is the same, but at least with Morph you can SEE WHAT YOU'RE CASTING (and you also sometimes receive small flip bonuses, or the lowered cost.). Which brings brings me to my next point, Courser. She might say that she can get you better draws and tell you what you're Manifesting, but Courser is a cheating whore, as she likes to tell your opponent what you're casting as well. This may not matter if, like you mentioned, you're just pulling out an 8/8 land dummy, but if you're going for any sort of surprise, that's a nope. And there's only a handful of cards like that which help you always know your draws, the only other coming to mind is Lens of Clarity. Yes, you can Scry, but only in standard, and even then, it's for the one turn. And if you don't get what you needed, tough toenails, eh? I do like Reality Shift, exiling whoever I want and giving my opponent the crappy Manifest. But as for Secret Plans and Trail of Mystery, those only work in best-case scenarios. Think; if you're getting all your lands into your hand, what're you gonna cast your big Wildcall on? And if you Manifest a noncreature, what's the point of a +2/+2? And the same goes for Secret Plans. No use in drawing if you can't flip, and it only effectively makes your 2/2's better blockers.
Maybe I'm alone in my opinions, or maybe I'm stating the obvious. But, is it just me, or is Manifest one of the stupidest mechanics to come out in recent memory? I could have understood Morph, even though it really wasn't that great. Morph was useful for having a lowered flip cost (most of the time), letting you get out creatures you didn't have mana for at the time, and flipping them up the second that you do, usually with an added effect. It was also a rather fun thing in KTK draft, because people never knew what you had face-down, and it really (again) helped with the mana cost. If you were running tri-color, a pretty common thing, then you wouldn't always have the right colors. You could still have a 2/2 out there, and wait for your needed color to come. Manifest takes away any benefit Morph had, save for an OCCASIONAL lowered cost to put it facedown. Firstly, I haven't seen a single Manifest card that wasn't, in my opinion, at a fair cost. All of them usually 2-4 cmc, sometimes with an added ability that's little more than useless. "Oh, did you want just a 2/2? Well, for just 3 colorless and 1 G, you can have a 3/3! And at Sorcery speed, too!" Looking at you, Formless Nurturing. Then there's the whole "top card of your library"" bull. I'm sorry, were you looking to play your new Temporal Trespass? How about that shiny Ugin you just got? Well, as the late Billy Mays would've put it, "Not anymore!". Sadly, we can't just Oxyclean this crap away. But my biggest problem is that it's being paraded on cards, especially Mythics and Rares, like it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's taking up valuable space on cards that could have been good, or at least much better than they currently are. Can anyone give me some upsides to Manifest? If so, please do.
Okay, I'll bite. In no particular order:
Manifest allows you to have non-creature spells that create creatures, triggering Prowess.
You offer a worst-case scenario of turning your noncreature bombs into 2/2s. You ignore the best case scenario of turning your excess basic lands into 2/2s.
It interacts extremely well with Flicker effects (as Morph has, historically - see Astral Slide decks).
It allows Morph creatures with high unmorph costs that unmorph for effect to cheat those costs.
It can function as a "cost" to performing effects like Reality Shift.
It does something new. It gets us thinking. It makes us reevaluate a ton of older cards. Manifest is patently not an all-upside mechanic, but nor is it an all-downside mechanic. That's really the best defense of it - it does something new and changes the game. It may break into constructed, or may remain a limited-only mechanic. We can't say just yet. But I don't think that we can just dismiss the mechanic as "dumb".
My motto, maybe a bit pessimistic, is "Plan for the worst, hope for the best." I agree, I do tend to look for a worst-case, but at BEST, the best-case is just as likely to happen. Can't safely cast Manifests until you have a Courser, Lens, Scry, etc. Nobody uses Lens, and if they did, you'd still need some deck manipulation for it, ala Scry. And with Courser, you won't be doing anything Manifest until turn four. I hadn't thought of the Prowess trigger, yes, but where will Prowess and Manifest see play in the same deck? Abzan? Maybe? And lastly, with the Unmorph cost thing, unless you're casting a 2 or less cmc to Manifest it, you may as well have just Morphed it, otherwise you aren't really "cheating" anything.
Well from what he clearly told you, you seem unconvinced. sorry to hear that.
Hopefully your not just viewing Manifest from a Limited/Standard point of view as that is quiet narrow as WOTC designs cards for many formats outside of Standard as Standard is basically "Flavor of the Month".
Well, that "flavor of the month" happens to be the most tasted in all of MTG. But, if I wasn't clear, I did mean that I don't have much room to speak in terms of Modern/Legacy/Vintage etc., simply because my knowledge in those areas is rather limited. Also, I AM looking for convincing, but the first person whose reasoning I questioned basically just dropped out, the only rebuttal seemingly being insulting Limited formats for being too recent.
Manifest seems like a pretty decent mechanic to me. It is pretty dumb that you can have face down non-permanents, but there is no simple way around that. It will be really useful with Sensei's Divining Top and Scroll Rack. It will be really cool with bounce effects (you can bounce the good cards back to hand then play them for real).
::Edit, see Temur Sabertooth, this guy is going to be awesome::
Finally, I appreciate that Manifest is actually a mechanic, unlike Ferocious, which is just added text. Ferocious means "something to do with 4 power keep reading the card to find out what". Regardless of how useful they are, I greatly prefer mechanics like Manifest that actually have meaning and wish we could put an end to useless-text mechanics.
The argument that manifest might remove your planeswalker or instant you wanted form the top of your library is outright silly, i might just as well help you dig for your needed card.
Is a card that says:
2B, Sorcery
Put the top card of your library on the bottom of your library, draw two cards.
worse than Divination? This one also removes the top card of your library. Manifesting a card from your library is card advantage. Sure, it might remove a good card. But it might just as well remove an unneeded card or be a blowout with some good morph or other creature.
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Manifest is quirky new design space, and I am glad WotC is trying new things. One can easily avoid losing instants and planeswalkers by simply building a deck that does not use them. As for limited, often times you just need a bear.
Nothing like manifesting on turn 2 a Nyxathid, and morphing it for 1BB on turn 3 nabbing you a cheap 7/7.
Goodness, I did not even read manifest correctly. Having them able to be turned face up makes this mechanic absurd. The face down creature could be anything lurking.
I'm going to quote Maro here, "If you don't like a card, it's because it wasn't made for you."
Magic is a game played by a lot of people, so R&D make cards and mechanics to try and please different subsets. If you don't like Manifest and think it's dumb, then don't play it. No need to try and throw it under a bus.
For those that like the mechanic, it doesn't seem there's going to be an answer they can give that will be satisfactory to you. I personally like it because it's random and quirky, but that's my own opinion and play style. I guess that means that Manifest was made, in part, for me.
Not every card or mechanic is made for every player. Remember that and you'll have a lot more fun playing the game.
I'll be completely honest. I don't like Manifest simply because it makes the game incredibly more difficult to play...and play well. I get sick of bluffing and the disappointment (eventually becomes frustration) of choosing wrong and losing on the basis of (imo 'bull*****') 'hidden information'. It is just mentally taxing. There...I said it.
Simply put, there is a reason Illusionary Mask is a very confusing (and subject to all kinds of tricksy shenanigans to really maximize it's power) card and to base an ENTIRE BLOCK MECHANIC around it is kinda, well, wow.
The OTHER related complaint I have is MaRo's (I'm sure) insistence they take everything 'to 11'. There is just SO MUCH of it in FRF. I don't even know where to begin. Completely overwhelming. While I understand the idea behind 'take it to 11' and I generally AGREE with the sentiment, I think that HERE it's (way) too much.
I understand why everyone loves it and I generally agree with that--it is a pretty interesting mechanic and it's leading to weird new cards (awesome) and will also lead to a very interesting limited environment. I just find it very very difficult to play at this level of frequency. It's exhausting.
Maybe I'm alone in my opinions, or maybe I'm stating the obvious. But, is it just me, or is Manifest one of the stupidest mechanics to come out in recent memory? I could have understood Morph, even though it really wasn't that great. Morph was useful for having a lowered flip cost (most of the time), letting you get out creatures you didn't have mana for at the time, and flipping them up the second that you do, usually with an added effect. It was also a rather fun thing in KTK draft, because people never knew what you had face-down, and it really (again) helped with the mana cost. If you were running tri-color, a pretty common thing, then you wouldn't always have the right colors. You could still have a 2/2 out there, and wait for your needed color to come. Manifest takes away any benefit Morph had, save for an OCCASIONAL lowered cost to put it facedown. Firstly, I haven't seen a single Manifest card that wasn't, in my opinion, at a fair cost. All of them usually 2-4 cmc, sometimes with an added ability that's little more than useless. "Oh, did you want just a 2/2? Well, for just 3 colorless and 1 G, you can have a 3/3! And at Sorcery speed, too!" Looking at you, Formless Nurturing. Then there's the whole "top card of your library"" bull. I'm sorry, were you looking to play your new Temporal Trespass? How about that shiny Ugin you just got? Well, as the late Billy Mays would've put it, "Not anymore!". Sadly, we can't just Oxyclean this crap away. But my biggest problem is that it's being paraded on cards, especially Mythics and Rares, like it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's taking up valuable space on cards that could have been good, or at least much better than they currently are. Can anyone give me some upsides to Manifest? If so, please do.
You realize with proper setting, you can manifest creature cards with otherwise prohibitive cost when it comes into play? Phyrexian Dreadnought, for one, is an excellent example.
Well, that "flavor of the month" happens to be the most tasted in all of MTG. But, if I wasn't clear, I did mean that I don't have much room to speak in terms of Modern/Legacy/Vintage etc., simply because my knowledge in those areas is rather limited. Also, I AM looking for convincing, but the first person whose reasoning I questioned basically just dropped out, the only rebuttal seemingly being insulting Limited formats for being too recent.
If you are considering limited only, here are some good cards:
Benefits from digging in your deck:
All delve cards: Digging through your deck sets up delve
More likely to get a creature bomb into play
General card advantage: Temur War Shaman: 6 for a 4/5 and a 2/2, plus you could get some fights Whisperwood Elemental: Poops out 2/2s and threatens to make even more 2/2s Sage-Eye Avengers: Pick up your non-creature 2/2s Temur Sabertooth: This guy has so much potential with and without manifest Arashin Warbeast: Manifesting is like making tokens but usually better Secret Plans Mastery of the Unseen
Every "Deal two damage" card becomes risky because you could morph to 3+ toughness.
Decent deals:
[CARD]Sultai Emmissary/CARD]: You get a 1/1 then you get a 2/2 Write Into Being: Gives you two choices so you are more likely to get something worth more than a 2/2 Rageform: Double strike is good Wildcall: You get an X/X for X (X must be greater than 1)
Misc benefits: Ghostfire Blade: You have more colorless creatures Howl of the Hoard: Copy non-creature spells to get creatures Warden of the Eye: Get a creature anyway
All of the lame ones that put on +1/+1 counters can benefit from Abzan buffs
Manifest adds an element of danger to combat because something unexpected could show up
There are likely more to come soon.
Looking at this, it seems like Jeskai and Delve benefit the most. Also, bomb creatures become a lot more relevant if you can dig a lot.
For me, the paraphrased manifest ability reads more akin to:
"exile the top card of your library, put a 2/2 creature token onto the battlefield; maybe you get a bonus"
With the possible random upside that this "token" can grow at better than instant speed (if it's a creature), i.e. it is its own combat trick. With another possiblity that this "token" gives you card advantage if it's ever hit by a Force Away. With yet another possiblity that you get an undercosted effect due to the morph cost and casting cost being different, e.g Hooded Hydra and Master of Pearls both flip for 2 if they're manifested. With yet another possibility that it will fuel your delve cards if it dies. And these are all available in Khans limited, there are more in constructed.
The rock bottom, worst case, scenario is that the new white spell gives you a 2/2 for 2 and the green spell gives you a 3/3 for 4, both of which are fine, but unexciting in limited. The best case is something akin to Brainstorm, Manifest, Cloudshift, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
Is Manifest the best mechanic in Magic? No, I don't think so. Is it an ok mechanic that I'll have fun with, at least in limited? Yes.
Maybe I'm alone in my opinions, or maybe I'm stating the obvious. But, is it just me, or is Manifest one of the stupidest mechanics to come out in recent memory? I could have understood Morph, even though it really wasn't that great. Morph was useful for having a lowered flip cost (most of the time), letting you get out creatures you didn't have mana for at the time, and flipping them up the second that you do, usually with an added effect. It was also a rather fun thing in KTK draft, because people never knew what you had face-down, and it really (again) helped with the mana cost. If you were running tri-color, a pretty common thing, then you wouldn't always have the right colors. You could still have a 2/2 out there, and wait for your needed color to come. Manifest takes away any benefit Morph had, save for an OCCASIONAL lowered cost to put it facedown.
A) Manifest = Morph. You just can't unmorph your noncreatures. If it is a creature you can unmorph it.
B) You can cheat big creatures into play with a cheap manifest spell. You basically treat your top card of your library as part of your hand. As long as you got the mana to unmorph it which is its mana cost unless it already had an unmorph cost that is which would be cheaper. Also being able to cheat Phage the Untouchable, creatures with drawbacks for entering play, yet without her "enters the battlefield" trigger... triggering.
Firstly, I haven't seen a single Manifest card that wasn't, in my opinion, at a fair cost. All of them usually 2-4 cmc, sometimes with an added ability that's little more than useless. "Oh, did you want just a 2/2? Well, for just 3 colorless and 1 G, you can have a 3/3! And at Sorcery speed, too!" Looking at you, Formless Nurturing.
Formless Nurturing can be run in an Abzan (Outlast / Bolster) deck or Temur (Ferocious) deck.
Also WildCall can be used to turn a horrible top deck into a late game threat. You could very well be stuck in a land pocket and now by paying say GG or 2GG or 4GG or even 6GG if you got that kind of mana, you can have a 2/2 or 4/4 or 6/6 or 8/8 that was really a land all along.
Then there's the whole "top card of your library"" bull. I'm sorry, were you looking to play your new Temporal Trespass? How about that shiny Ugin you just got? Well, as the late Billy Mays would've put it, "Not anymore!". Sadly, we can't just Oxyclean this crap away.
Courser of Kruphix says "Hello, Courser here! Tired of losing your goodstuff to unforeseen manifests? Tired of constantly wondering what would happen if you manifested the wrong card? Well I get the solution for you for just one easy payment of 1GG so you to can be ahead of the curve!"
But my biggest problem is that it's being paraded on cards, especially Mythics and Rares, like it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's taking up valuable space on cards that could have been good, or at least much better than they currently are. Can anyone give me some upsides to Manifest? If so, please do.
Trail of Mystery = Every time you manifest you now Rampant Growth as well. Secret Plans = Every time you manifest you get a 2/3 instead of a 2/2. If its a creature you can flip up, draw a card as well. Reality Shift = Exile your opponent's Stormbreath Dragon or Siege Rhino. Unless your opponent is luckier than a 4-leaf clover, you may have manifested their planeswalker or a removal spell which is now considered a dead card.
Will point out trail of mystery puts the land in your hand, but it does fix mana problems.
A) Manifest = Morph. You just can't unmorph your noncreatures. If it is a creature you can unmorph it.
B) You can cheat big creatures into play with a cheap manifest spell. You basically treat your top card of your library as part of your hand. As long as you got the mana to unmorph it which is its mana cost unless it already had an unmorph cost that is which would be cheaper. Also being able to cheat Phage the Untouchable, creatures with drawbacks for entering play, yet without her "enters the battlefield" trigger... triggering.
Formless Nurturing can be run in an Abzan (Outlast / Bolster) deck or Temur (Ferocious) deck.
Also WildCall can be used to turn a horrible top deck into a late game threat. You could very well be stuck in a land pocket and now by paying say GG or 2GG or 4GG or even 6GG if you got that kind of mana, you can have a 2/2 or 4/4 or 6/6 or 8/8 that was really a land all along.
Courser of Kruphix says "Hello, Courser here! Tired of losing your goodstuff to unforeseen manifests? Tired of constantly wondering what would happen if you manifested the wrong card? Well I get the solution for you for just one easy payment of 1GG so you to can be ahead of the curve!"
Trail of Mystery = Every time you manifest you now Rampant Growth as well.
Secret Plans = Every time you manifest you get a 2/3 instead of a 2/2. If its a creature you can flip up, draw a card as well.
Reality Shift = Exile your opponent's Stormbreath Dragon or Siege Rhino. Unless your opponent is luckier than a 4-leaf clover, you may have manifested their planeswalker or a removal spell which is now considered a dead card.
Okay, I'll bite. In no particular order:
Manifest allows you to have non-creature spells that create creatures, triggering Prowess.
You offer a worst-case scenario of turning your noncreature bombs into 2/2s. You ignore the best case scenario of turning your excess basic lands into 2/2s.
It interacts extremely well with Flicker effects (as Morph has, historically - see Astral Slide decks).
It allows Morph creatures with high unmorph costs that unmorph for effect to cheat those costs.
It can function as a "cost" to performing effects like Reality Shift.
It does something new. It gets us thinking. It makes us reevaluate a ton of older cards. Manifest is patently not an all-upside mechanic, but nor is it an all-downside mechanic. That's really the best defense of it - it does something new and changes the game. It may break into constructed, or may remain a limited-only mechanic. We can't say just yet. But I don't think that we can just dismiss the mechanic as "dumb".
This isn't true with manifested cards, there will be no simple rule to remember when we can safely block. I expect that will make KTK/FRF one of the most interesting limited environments we've had in a very long time.
Both , Nixjadnuniaicndn enter face down (secret information ) soo you will never pick a player ( generaly you pick when it resolves... )
Hunted Horror can't be set up easily by Flamekin harbinger. Harbinger nabs Nyxathid or Force of Savagery and puts them at the top of your deck to be hit with Wildcall , or nabs Whisperwood Elemental if you want manipulate your next draw.
This, like mill, is a feel-bad scenario that doesn't actually have a meaningful effect on the game. New players feel really bad when their good cards happen to get milled/manifested away, but unless you run through your entire deck, it's as neutral as shuffling your library. Aside from corner cases, there is essentially only possible upside on the 2/2 bear gained by manifest.
Also, manifesting is never really bad, as Locke said, it will just randomly feel bad sometimes just like it'll randomly get your bomb and win the game. Build your draft decks with high creature density is all there is to it, which shouldn't be a new idea.
Firstly, talking strictly about Standard and Draft, who is there to cheat in? You're practically paying whatever it's cost is + 2 colorless. You may say that Morph is the same, but at least with Morph you can SEE WHAT YOU'RE CASTING (and you also sometimes receive small flip bonuses, or the lowered cost.). Which brings brings me to my next point, Courser. She might say that she can get you better draws and tell you what you're Manifesting, but Courser is a cheating whore, as she likes to tell your opponent what you're casting as well. This may not matter if, like you mentioned, you're just pulling out an 8/8 land dummy, but if you're going for any sort of surprise, that's a nope. And there's only a handful of cards like that which help you always know your draws, the only other coming to mind is Lens of Clarity. Yes, you can Scry, but only in standard, and even then, it's for the one turn. And if you don't get what you needed, tough toenails, eh? I do like Reality Shift, exiling whoever I want and giving my opponent the crappy Manifest. But as for Secret Plans and Trail of Mystery, those only work in best-case scenarios. Think; if you're getting all your lands into your hand, what're you gonna cast your big Wildcall on? And if you Manifest a noncreature, what's the point of a +2/+2? And the same goes for Secret Plans. No use in drawing if you can't flip, and it only effectively makes your 2/2's better blockers.
My motto, maybe a bit pessimistic, is "Plan for the worst, hope for the best." I agree, I do tend to look for a worst-case, but at BEST, the best-case is just as likely to happen. Can't safely cast Manifests until you have a Courser, Lens, Scry, etc. Nobody uses Lens, and if they did, you'd still need some deck manipulation for it, ala Scry. And with Courser, you won't be doing anything Manifest until turn four. I hadn't thought of the Prowess trigger, yes, but where will Prowess and Manifest see play in the same deck? Abzan? Maybe? And lastly, with the Unmorph cost thing, unless you're casting a 2 or less cmc to Manifest it, you may as well have just Morphed it, otherwise you aren't really "cheating" anything.
Hopefully your not just viewing Manifest from a Limited/Standard point of view as that is quiet narrow as WOTC designs cards for many formats outside of Standard as Standard is basically "Flavor of the Month".
::Edit, see Temur Sabertooth, this guy is going to be awesome::
Finally, I appreciate that Manifest is actually a mechanic, unlike Ferocious, which is just added text. Ferocious means "something to do with 4 power keep reading the card to find out what". Regardless of how useful they are, I greatly prefer mechanics like Manifest that actually have meaning and wish we could put an end to useless-text mechanics.
Is a card that says:
2B, Sorcery
Put the top card of your library on the bottom of your library, draw two cards.
worse than Divination? This one also removes the top card of your library. Manifesting a card from your library is card advantage. Sure, it might remove a good card. But it might just as well remove an unneeded card or be a blowout with some good morph or other creature.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
Goodness, I did not even read manifest correctly. Having them able to be turned face up makes this mechanic absurd. The face down creature could be anything lurking.
Magic is a game played by a lot of people, so R&D make cards and mechanics to try and please different subsets. If you don't like Manifest and think it's dumb, then don't play it. No need to try and throw it under a bus.
For those that like the mechanic, it doesn't seem there's going to be an answer they can give that will be satisfactory to you. I personally like it because it's random and quirky, but that's my own opinion and play style. I guess that means that Manifest was made, in part, for me.
Not every card or mechanic is made for every player. Remember that and you'll have a lot more fun playing the game.
Simply put, there is a reason Illusionary Mask is a very confusing (and subject to all kinds of tricksy shenanigans to really maximize it's power) card and to base an ENTIRE BLOCK MECHANIC around it is kinda, well, wow.
The OTHER related complaint I have is MaRo's (I'm sure) insistence they take everything 'to 11'. There is just SO MUCH of it in FRF. I don't even know where to begin. Completely overwhelming. While I understand the idea behind 'take it to 11' and I generally AGREE with the sentiment, I think that HERE it's (way) too much.
I understand why everyone loves it and I generally agree with that--it is a pretty interesting mechanic and it's leading to weird new cards (awesome) and will also lead to a very interesting limited environment. I just find it very very difficult to play at this level of frequency. It's exhausting.
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You realize with proper setting, you can manifest creature cards with otherwise prohibitive cost when it comes into play? Phyrexian Dreadnought, for one, is an excellent example.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
If you are considering limited only, here are some good cards:
Benefits from casting non-creature spells:
Monastery Mentor: You get a prowess, you get a monk, you get a 2/2
Goblin Slide
Jeskai Ascendency
Quiet Contemplation
Sage of the Inward Eye
Seeker of the Way
All prowess cards: Casting non-creature spells helps prowess
Benefits from digging in your deck:
All delve cards: Digging through your deck sets up delve
More likely to get a creature bomb into play
General card advantage:
Temur War Shaman: 6 for a 4/5 and a 2/2, plus you could get some fights
Whisperwood Elemental: Poops out 2/2s and threatens to make even more 2/2s
Sage-Eye Avengers: Pick up your non-creature 2/2s
Temur Sabertooth: This guy has so much potential with and without manifest
Arashin Warbeast: Manifesting is like making tokens but usually better
Secret Plans
Mastery of the Unseen
Every "Deal two damage" card becomes risky because you could morph to 3+ toughness.
Decent deals:
[CARD]Sultai Emmissary/CARD]: You get a 1/1 then you get a 2/2
Write Into Being: Gives you two choices so you are more likely to get something worth more than a 2/2
Rageform: Double strike is good
Wildcall: You get an X/X for X (X must be greater than 1)
Misc benefits:
Ghostfire Blade: You have more colorless creatures
Howl of the Hoard: Copy non-creature spells to get creatures
Warden of the Eye: Get a creature anyway
All of the lame ones that put on +1/+1 counters can benefit from Abzan buffs
Manifest adds an element of danger to combat because something unexpected could show up
There are likely more to come soon.
Looking at this, it seems like Jeskai and Delve benefit the most. Also, bomb creatures become a lot more relevant if you can dig a lot.
"exile the top card of your library, put a 2/2 creature token onto the battlefield; maybe you get a bonus"
With the possible random upside that this "token" can grow at better than instant speed (if it's a creature), i.e. it is its own combat trick. With another possiblity that this "token" gives you card advantage if it's ever hit by a Force Away. With yet another possiblity that you get an undercosted effect due to the morph cost and casting cost being different, e.g Hooded Hydra and Master of Pearls both flip for 2 if they're manifested. With yet another possibility that it will fuel your delve cards if it dies. And these are all available in Khans limited, there are more in constructed.
The rock bottom, worst case, scenario is that the new white spell gives you a 2/2 for 2 and the green spell gives you a 3/3 for 4, both of which are fine, but unexciting in limited. The best case is something akin to Brainstorm, Manifest, Cloudshift, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
Is Manifest the best mechanic in Magic? No, I don't think so. Is it an ok mechanic that I'll have fun with, at least in limited? Yes.
Will point out trail of mystery puts the land in your hand, but it does fix mana problems.