Clever impersonator is an excellent card, but it has the same mana cost as does the original clone, with the only difference being that it requires two mana of a specific color, rather than the one of clone.
How is that balanced? I imagine that the impersonator is better than clone in nine out of ten situations, and any truly skilled player will not be bothered by the more color-intensive casting cost. Why does the impersonator not have a higher overall cost, to balance its greater power?
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Clever impersonator is an excellent card, but it has the same mana cost as does the original clone, with the only difference being that it requires two mana of a specific color, rather than the one of clone.
How is that balanced? I imagine that the impersonator is better than clone in nine out of ten situations, and any truly skilled player will not be bothered by the more color-intensive casting cost. Why does the impersonator not have a higher overall cost, to balance its greater power?
It is MR is a powered up clone and most of the time in Limited is just a clone , the card is balanced . Just think it is a powercreep on the clone effect we aways get.
Clone is not a "top tier" or "pushed" card (it's pretty much base set limited fodder). So the fact that Clone is almost entirely outclassed by Clever Impersonator doesn't make Impersonator unbalanced, it just shows that RD is comfortable going beyond Clone's power level (as they have done many times already). Much like there are countless cards that are better than Grizzly Bears, Gray Ogres, or Hill Giants, there are better cards than Clone.
I imagine that the impersonator is better than clone in nine out of ten situations, and any truly skilled player will not be bothered by the more color-intensive casting cost. Why does the impersonator not have a higher overall cost, to balance its greater power?
In Standard and Limited, 9 out of 10 times people will be copying creatures and it's just a clone. In other formats it's still usually going to be creatures... It's a better card, yes, but in practice it's not going to be that different than Clone, but maybe different enough for people to play it.
Short answer: it's not balanced with the original Clone, but why would it be?
Cards are going to be better than other cards sometimes, especially when they're printed 20 years apart and the earlier one has never really been at a competitive power level.
Short answer: it's not balanced with the original Clone, but why would it be?
Cards are going to be better than other cards sometimes, especially when they're printed 20 years apart and the earlier one has never really been at a competitive power level.
This.
It's the same reason we have the much better Redirect instead of poor old Deflection-
Deflection just wasn't on par for its cost.
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Clever impersonator is an excellent card, but it has the same mana cost as does the original clone, with the only difference being that it requires two mana of a specific color, rather than the one of clone.
How is that balanced? I imagine that the impersonator is better than clone in nine out of ten situations, and any truly skilled player will not be bothered by the more color-intensive casting cost. Why does the impersonator not have a higher overall cost, to balance its greater power?
I wonder if it just took this many recent printings for them to be okay, with a clone that now hits the most powerful type of card, the planeswalker.
I really like the impersonator, and I believe he will work wonders in this format.
How do you even magic? This and the other thread you create are both useless. functional reprints and strictly better cards can be done at any time, principaly in a 20 years old game.
Also, they almost never balance a card with another in mind, they do the balance with the Limited and Standard meta in mind, principaly limited. And they are not perfect, sometimes a broken sinergy can be done, but this is not the case.
This is more powerfull, but in a non-monoblue deck maybe Clone is better (in a heavy creatures meta), same to a budget list (because of mana fix is not cheap)
I somehow find it tragic when an attacking Traveling Philosopher gets blocked by another Traveling Philosopher, which normally results in two dead philosophers. Shouldn't they just sit aside and start discussing?
"This is really exciting, so much to find out about, so much to look forward to, I'm quite dizzy with anticipation . . . Or is it the wind? There really is a lot of that now, isn't there? And wow! Hey! What's this thing suddenly coming toward me very fast? Very, very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide-sounding name like . . . ow . . . ound . . . round . . . ground! That's it! That's a good name- ground! I wonder if it will be friends with me? Hello Ground!"
Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the Sprouting Phytohydra as it fell was Oh no, not again.
It isn't overpowered or anything. 4 mana for a clone isn't exactly playable in a tournament deck, likely even if it can copy non-creatures as well. I actually wonder why it can't copy lands. It doesn't cause rules issues and it would only add a tiny bit of power to the card.
It isn't overpowered or anything. 4 mana for a clone isn't exactly playable in a tournament deck, likely even if it can copy non-creatures as well. I actually wonder why it can't copy lands. It doesn't cause rules issues and it would only add a tiny bit of power to the card.
Probably because it couldn't be removed that way or something. Although I see very few situations where that would matter.
dark depths is the first reason that comes to mind.
If Impersonator could copy lands, it would still enter the battlefield with the ice counters. To copy Dark Depths without counters, you need something that copies a land after it's already entered the battlefield, like Thespian's Stage.
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It isn't overpowered or anything. 4 mana for a clone isn't exactly playable in a tournament deck, likely even if it can copy non-creatures as well. I actually wonder why it can't copy lands. It doesn't cause rules issues and it would only add a tiny bit of power to the card.
Probably because that's technically Blue Ramping,
which is a big no-no by modern standards.
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dark depths is the first reason that comes to mind.
If Impersonator could copy lands, it would still enter the battlefield with the ice counters. To copy Dark Depths without counters, you need something that copies a land after it's already entered the battlefield, like Thespian's Stage.
At its time Clone was able to kill legends, while that rule has changed, clone effects got worse in that department.
Also we got many much stronger clones than good old "clone".
Phyrexian Metamorph is a much bigger push for costing 3 and being colorless, THAT was a real power creep, while this one here is just adding a little flexibily that rarely really matters (copy planeswalker while possible is most the time just bad, as the one that got the planeswalker earlier has the advantage anyway, unless it can specificly kill the other planeswalker with an activation).
Costing double blue is also a downer for any deck that just splashes blue.
For anyone that would play Clone the "new" Clone is just another one, nice if it does something extra work.
It isn't overpowered or anything. 4 mana for a clone isn't exactly playable in a tournament deck, likely even if it can copy non-creatures as well. I actually wonder why it can't copy lands. It doesn't cause rules issues and it would only add a tiny bit of power to the card.
Probably because that's technically Blue Ramping,
which is a big no-no by modern standards.
I still wish it could
Especially with "Temur" it could totally be a blue/green multicolor card and copy any permanent.
Blue land ramp should actually be a tertiary ability in blue. They actually gave it a harrow effect in planar chaos. That's the category of stuff a color can do but you'll rarely see it printed like a black mind control.
Blue land ramp should actually be a tertiary ability in blue. They actually gave it a harrow effect in planar chaos. That's the category of stuff a color can do but you'll rarely see it printed like a black mind control.
Planar Chaos was the set of stuff that a color could do if they decided to define them a little differently, not the set of stuff that colors rarely get. You're thinking of Future Sight, wherein they emphasized directions they MIGHT take colors. Basically, Planar Chaos was saying, "here's some toys that we'll probably never give you again, you better snap them up!" As far as I can tell, the only mechanic that stuck was giving green card draw and frankly, its section of the pie was a little anemic.
OT: Compare it to Phyrexian Metamorph and it gets a lot closer. Creeping over Clone is no big deal these days.
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So, it seems that the general consensus here is that the original clone is simply too weak, and has become a victim of "power creep," since phyrexian metamorph, evil twin, and progenitor mimic are all superior to it in nearly any situation? If this is akin to how Serra angel and Shivan dragon have also become victims of power creep, then I perfectly understand.
As far as EDH goes, I think he is a bit unbalanced. Not in other formats, but with the crazy stuff that goes on in an EDH game, being able to copy any creature, artifact, enchantment or planeswalker for just 2UU is quite versatile. In that sense, in EDH, I think it's cost to versatility ratio is a bit unbalanced.
It's strong in EDH but it demands that your opponent or yourself to have a good target. If your opponent has the good target it means you're a turn behind.
It's definitely a very good card for EDH but I wouldn't picture it to be overpowered.
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How is that balanced? I imagine that the impersonator is better than clone in nine out of ten situations, and any truly skilled player will not be bothered by the more color-intensive casting cost. Why does the impersonator not have a higher overall cost, to balance its greater power?
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It is MR is a powered up clone and most of the time in Limited is just a clone , the card is balanced . Just think it is a powercreep on the clone effect we aways get.
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Cards are going to be better than other cards sometimes, especially when they're printed 20 years apart and the earlier one has never really been at a competitive power level.
This.
It's the same reason we have the much better Redirect instead of poor old Deflection-
Deflection just wasn't on par for its cost.
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Some cards are allowed to be strictly better. Just think jace's ingenuity vs ancestral recall or shock vs lightning bolt. 'Tis was it is.
Clone is good but pretty average in power. Just look at some alternatives:
Phantasmal Image sacs if targeted, but costs 2cmc and has broken synergy with hexproof and stuff like Sun Titan.
Phyrexian Metamorph can cost 3cmc and 2 life, and also copies artifacts, and can go into any deck.
Sakashima the Impostor can bounce himself, which lets you spam ETB triggers or change clone targets.
Sakashima's Student can be an insane combat trick.
Evil Twin can be creature removal.
Etc.
I really like the impersonator, and I believe he will work wonders in this format.
Also, they almost never balance a card with another in mind, they do the balance with the Limited and Standard meta in mind, principaly limited. And they are not perfect, sometimes a broken sinergy can be done, but this is not the case.
This is more powerfull, but in a non-monoblue deck maybe Clone is better (in a heavy creatures meta), same to a budget list (because of mana fix is not cheap)
Probably because it couldn't be removed that way or something. Although I see very few situations where that would matter.
If Impersonator could copy lands, it would still enter the battlefield with the ice counters. To copy Dark Depths without counters, you need something that copies a land after it's already entered the battlefield, like Thespian's Stage.
Probably because that's technically Blue Ramping,
which is a big no-no by modern standards.
I still wish it could
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good call, you're right.
Also we got many much stronger clones than good old "clone".
Phyrexian Metamorph is a much bigger push for costing 3 and being colorless, THAT was a real power creep, while this one here is just adding a little flexibily that rarely really matters (copy planeswalker while possible is most the time just bad, as the one that got the planeswalker earlier has the advantage anyway, unless it can specificly kill the other planeswalker with an activation).
Costing double blue is also a downer for any deck that just splashes blue.
For anyone that would play Clone the "new" Clone is just another one, nice if it does something extra work.
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Especially with "Temur" it could totally be a blue/green multicolor card and copy any permanent.
But they wanted to make it mono blue.
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Planar Chaos was the set of stuff that a color could do if they decided to define them a little differently, not the set of stuff that colors rarely get. You're thinking of Future Sight, wherein they emphasized directions they MIGHT take colors. Basically, Planar Chaos was saying, "here's some toys that we'll probably never give you again, you better snap them up!" As far as I can tell, the only mechanic that stuck was giving green card draw and frankly, its section of the pie was a little anemic.
OT: Compare it to Phyrexian Metamorph and it gets a lot closer. Creeping over Clone is no big deal these days.
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Then again, EDH is an unbalanced format, so...
It's definitely a very good card for EDH but I wouldn't picture it to be overpowered.