This sure is a funny answer to an early Emrakul, pay 15 life and remove it via this spell.
Obviously stuff like Oblivion Ring, Diabolic Edict, and others do the job, without sacrificing nearly your full life total.
Obviously there are more ideal ways to answer Emrakul, but if my choice is to spend 15 life to remove emrakul or enter a position where I will quickly never be able to cast anything again, then I'll spend the life every time.
Yeah, as others have mentioned, I think this card is deceptively powerful because of its versatility. It's as splashable it can get, and 2B is probably the cheapest we've ever seen, or will see, for a wrath effect. It's very strong in EDH, since cheesing 2/2 generals like Jhoira, Kaalia, Arcum, Edric are very popular (and it incidentally can kill the 4CMC generals even if you're on the draw and they accelerate turn 2). Everyone assumes that EDh is all about windmill slamming 7 mana fatties, but having a tight curve is just as powerful as in any other format. 3 is a lot less than 4, and the earlier your disruption is accessible, the stronger your deck is against hyper-aggressive-all-in cheese strategies. The option for most removal is to run 2-3 CMC spot removal, which is card disadvantage in multiplayer, or run 4+ CMC sweepers, which are slow and vulnerable to the aforementioned fast decks. Toxic Deluge is a bit of both, and flexibility is king in EDH. On later turns, you can spend the 11 to kill that Darksteel Colossus and have the appreciation of everyone at the table. In fact, as long as you have enough life, you can kill absolutely anything, unlike edict-sweepers, Damnation, BSZ, etc, which all have corner cases where they won't work (Sigarda, Melira, Indestructible, Regen, etc.)
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Treasure maps, fallen trees, operator please
Patch me back to my mind
If you have 3 lands in hand, you can cheat one in with Show and Tell so you can cast Toxic Deluge on Turn 2. Same deal if one of your 2 lands is a fetchland and you cheat in Deathrite Shaman.
Speaking of mana accel, I've actually killed Belcher's Empty the Warrens on Turn 2 on the draw in testing with a Turn 1 Deathrite and a fetch in my yard--one turn before the Goblins would have killed me.
You're absolutely right about Show and Tell and dropping in a land, I had it in my mind that it could only bring in creatures, not sure why.
I honestly think this card has more constructed (and EDH) applications than the Merfolk that was spoiled.
The majority of people can't evaluate cards very well, you wouldn't believe all the hoopla Rakdos, Lord of Riots got while people balked at Sphinx's Revelation when it was first spoiled, citing it couldn't be used a win condition like Blue Sun's Zenith, among other things. I guess they never thought of.....you know.....drawing 5 and gaining 5 as a win condition. mind boggling stuff, I know.
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Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
The majority of people can't evaluate cards very well, you wouldn't believe all the hoopla Rakdos, Lord of Riots got while people balked at Sphinx's Revelation when it was first spoiled, citing it couldn't be used a win condition like Blue Sun's Zenith, among other things. I guess they never thought of.....you know.....drawing 5 and gaining 5 as a win condition. mind boggling stuff, I know.
Excuse me, do you claim Sphinx Reve to be a win-con?
I'd classify it solely as a stabilizer and advantage-spell. The win-con would be something that actually wins you the game, not something that gives you breathing room to win the game.
Otherwise you'd call every card in your deck a win-con as they are all there to give you the chance to win the game.
A win-con is something that will win you the game: Door to Nothingness, Aetherling, Helix Pinnacle, Blaze are cards that would fit my definition of a win-con as they either win you the game as an effect or they enable you to make your opponents lose as part of their effect.
Sphinx Rev does nothing to your opponent (unless they have a Notion Thief and cannot draw enough from their Lib), but it may enable you to play a win-con or survive to get a win-con online.
Anyone think this might have a chance of being eventually printed into standard/modern like Scavenging ooze?
It doesn't require a multi-player format to make sense and it doesn't have any keywords that would restrict where it could be printed.
I wouldn't think so. It seems very effective as a board-wipe and it seems like the game is slowing down, so such efficient early answers may totally quench any chance of building early aggressive decks against people who can splash Black.
It wouldn't surprise me if they'd reprint it in some additional set like a Duel-Deck or a Commander's Arsenal v.2 type of thing.
I'd really want Wizards to make "Commander's Bundle" which is basically a reprint of quite a bunch of good cards for the format that just is in short supply but not be limited to 15 cards and printed in foil versions.
I don't even play commander outside my playgroup with Gen 1's pre-con decks but I'd imagine that it would help quite a load of people to play a casual format.
Effectively they could ban those editions from tournament play so it's 100% meant for casual and thus carry much less value on the secondary market.
Quite frankly I find it slightly weird that Wizards want to "protect" collectors this much as all that actually does is increase the financial value of those cards because there's demand for their use in the game.
If you're a collector you have them for their collection-value, not financial value as singles (IMO) and they should carry little collection-value if they are reprints.
If you have Alpha-cards you cannot replace them with reprints to fill in the collection, because then it's just a name-collection and not a product-collection.
Ah well, never mind, I guess I just want to play the game and disregard the idea of a Collector's game.
I like how everyone misses the advantageous math in paying the life. Let's look at a no brainer time to play this.
Your opponent has 17 1/1 White/Red Soldier Tokens. Do you pay the 1 life to kill them all? YES (Because the alternative is a swing for 17)
Your opponent has a 2/2 Rakdos Cakler, a 2/2 Ash Zealot, a 3/3 Boros Reckoner, and a 3/3 Hellrider. Do you pay the 3 life to kill them all? YES (Because the alternative is swing for 10)
Your opponent has any Eldrazi? YES
Whatever amount you're paying, unless they are running a deck of big butted blockers, is going to be equal or less than the amount of punch in the face you're about to get hit with.
I like how everyone misses the advantageous math in paying the life. Let's look at a no brainer time to play this.
Your opponent has 17 1/1 White/Red Soldier Tokens. Do you pay the 1 life to kill them all? YES (Because the alternative is a swing for 17)
Your opponent has a 2/2 Rakdos Cakler, a 2/2 Ash Zealot, a 3/3 Boros Reckoner, and a 3/3 Hellrider. Do you pay the 3 life to kill them all? YES (Because the alternative is swing for 10)
Your opponent has any Eldrazi? YES
Whatever amount you're paying, unless they are running a deck of big butted blockers, is going to be equal or less than the amount of punch in the face you're about to get hit with.
Of course you'll always use this as removal if you're otherwise out of options. However it may be that the life-cost will be too heavy to make this a consistently answer to a variety of threats.
In standard it would wreak havoc but it is possible that it is not all that fantastic in legacy or occasionally in EDH. In regards to Legacy I'm mostly referring to Show and Tell - so it's thin ground to say it is not good and I'd rather say that it looks pretty good in 60 card-deck formats - you can always SB it out against Show and Tell and dump in some Edicts or something.
In EDH there's however a chance that if you wipe the board using 7-15 life, that it causes enough directed hate and a pretty chunk of life total reduction to make you public enemy no. 1.
It's not the first time I've seen players go "Oh, that dude is low, let me get a frag on him!" and combine that with a player who just lost his entire combo-board (dunno who has combo-boards consisting of pure creatures but play along) or dominant position will likely want to retaliate.
If there's an unwritten rule in EDH I'd reckon it be the rule of retaliation
I wouldn't think so. It seems very effective as a board-wipe and it seems like the game is slowing down, so such efficient early answers may totally quench any chance of building early aggressive decks against people who can splash Black.
Well I wouldn't imagine it to be printed immediately ofcourse. As far as I'm concerned, we're still on the downward power swing from the height of New Phyrexia era caw-blade decks.
It took a few years for ooze to get printed into standard/modern. By that time, the overall power level might rise to the point where Toxic Deluge will be justified.
What I'd really like is for WotC to introduce a means of adding cards to Modern without touching standard. The modern masters product line seems perfect for the job to me. Reprint some favorites that never saw post-8th edition standard play. Both favorites from secondary products like planechase/commander precons or from sets that pre-dated 8th. That way cards can enter the modern environment without disrupting the standard of the time.
@Armchair: They cannot print new cards for Modern without affecting Standard. For a card to enter Modern it has to enter Standard first. Or at least that's how they run things atm.
@Armchair: They cannot print new cards for Modern without affecting Standard. For a card to enter Modern it has to enter Standard first. Or at least that's how they run things atm.
I understand that's how it works atm. I'd like them to introduce a means to add cards to modern without affecting standard.
The rules for modern legality were written prior to the existence of the modern masters product. IMO, future modern masters sets would be a great way to introduce cards to modern. Whether they be cards from offshoot products like planechase/commander precons, cards too powerful for standard, or cards that have keywords that would be difficult to find a home for.
I understand that's how it works atm. I'd like them to introduce a means to add cards to modern without affecting standard.
The rules for modern legality were written prior to the existence of the modern masters product. IMO, future modern masters sets would be a great way to introduce cards to modern. Whether they be cards from offshoot products like planechase/commander precons, cards too powerful for standard, or cards that have keywords that would be difficult to find a home for.
I agree, but they would still have to be very careful. I'll admit that the best way to do this is to print cards multiple times prior to it entering Modern. Toxic Deluge is a good example. It's already going to have one massive printing, so if it get reprinted and "modernized", then it won't automatically be a $50 card.
I like how everyone misses the advantageous math in paying the life. Let's look at a no brainer time to play this.
Your opponent has 17 1/1 White/Red Soldier Tokens. Do you pay the 1 life to kill them all? YES (Because the alternative is a swing for 17)
Your opponent has a 2/2 Rakdos Cakler, a 2/2 Ash Zealot, a 3/3 Boros Reckoner, and a 3/3 Hellrider. Do you pay the 3 life to kill them all? YES (Because the alternative is swing for 10)
Your opponent has any Eldrazi? YES
Whatever amount you're paying, unless they are running a deck of big butted blockers, is going to be equal or less than the amount of punch in the face you're about to get hit with.
This, this, and all of this. Rakath just won the thread. Unfortunately, I cant really speak on formats like EDH (where I don't know as much) but this card would wreck ridiculous amounts of people's faces in standard.
Trading life to kill threats is advantageous because allowing them to beat your face turn after turn would result in even more damage. I will admit, however, this card is balanced by the fact that it isn't something you can rip off the top when you're losing horribly.
But seriously, I would play this in a heartbeat in standard...and people are on here b****ing about the life being too much for EDH? Where they start at 40?
Edit: Rakath: In your second example you forgot to include the Hellrider effect damage. You'd be takin 14.
This, this, and all of this. Rakath just won the thread. Unfortunately, I cant really speak on formats like EDH (where I don't know as much) but this card would wreck ridiculous amounts of people's faces in standard.
Trading life to kill threats is advantageous because allowing them to beat your face turn after turn would result in even more damage. I will admit, however, this card is balanced by the fact that it isn't something you can rip off the top when you're losing horribly.
But seriously, I would play this in a heartbeat in standard...and people are on here b****ing about the life being too much for EDH? Where they start at 40?
Edit: Rakath: In your second example you forgot to include the Hellrider effect damage. You'd be takin 14.
In Legacy, I pay steep amounts of life pretty often. I've paid 6 life to kill a Goyf and its buddies. I've paid 8 life to off a Batterskull Germ token equipped with Umezawa's Jitte with 2 charge counters (and its buddy, Stoneforge Mystic). I've paid 7 life to kill Iona, Shield of Emeria on white. And yes, I've paid 15 life to kill Emrakul. I think I won all the games where I paid those exorbitant amounts of life except for the Batterskull game. The life loss matters (it can get me in Bolt or manland range, and Merfolk is good at getting me to manland range), but not that often.
Toxic Deluge might actually turn out to be worse in EDH, though. The board wipe, depending on how one-sided it is, can make you friends with most of your opponents or can make you the biggest target in the room. The life loss matters less there, but the politics matter more.
True. Multiplayer can make things more of a gamble. Getting ganged up on can make you lose pretty quickly. But I'll just go ahead and call it here:
If this card ever was allowed in Standard it would be a mandatory 4-of in Esper Control. And, since the number of board sweeps would bump up to 8, it would put the deck back on top (which I feel has slipped off in favor of more aggressive/devotion builds).
I think its better then mutilate because it doesn't really restrict the types of decks it can be run in. A splash black with two other stronger colors could easily make this work.
On a completely seperate note: I like the new Esper commander that gains you life even when its not in play - then can be a draw engine and drain when it hits. I don't know how great Esper would be in that format but it would be fun to try.
I agree, but they would still have to be very careful. I'll admit that the best way to do this is to print cards multiple times prior to it entering Modern. Toxic Deluge is a good example. It's already going to have one massive printing, so if it get reprinted and "modernized", then it won't automatically be a $50 card.
That is a good point. Although in my christmasland, supply would be kept in check by modern masters 2+ having print runs comparable to core sets.
I'll settle for solving one problem at a time though. Imo, toxic deludge would have too great of an impact on standard atm. But I think it would be much more at home in modern. That's why I want to see a vehicle for adding cards to modern without warping standard. I'd like to see that first and worry about supply and the secondary market later.
Deluge is standard printable and even today in standard it would be pretty balanced. Like Rakath said it is always worth paying the life, but people are overstating its usefuless.
In standard Anger of the Gods is pretty much clearing the board, which means that at a minimum you'd pay 3 life when you cast this. At 1 and 2 life the card is strictly inferior to both Shrivel and Infest two cards that have been printed in an uncommon slots (infest multiple times) and have in no way warped the meta.) The sweet spot in costructed most of the time is 5 toughness which means that as a board wipe you'd be paying a hefty 5 life on top of 3 mana for a full "wrath" effect not even taking into consideration how much you would pay to wipe larger things (such as monstrous creatures right now).
Powerful and useful: Yes; broken and polarazing: hardly.
It replaces Perish on the sideboards of Legacy decks. It's worse against RUG (life is very important), slightly worse against elves (life isn't that imporant), but more importantly deals with Goblins, Moms, Geists, etc. It's not a main deckable card, but fine for the sideboard.
Deluge is standard printable and even today in standard it would be pretty balanced. Like Rakath said it is always worth paying the life, but people are overstating its usefuless.
In standard Anger of the Gods is pretty much clearing the board, which means that at a minimum you'd pay 3 life when you cast this. At 1 and 2 life the card is strictly inferior to both Shrivel and Infest two cards that have been printed in an uncommon slots (infest multiple times) and have in no way warped the meta.) The sweet spot in costructed most of the time is 5 toughness which means that as a board wipe you'd be paying a hefty 5 life on top of 3 mana for a full "wrath" effect not even taking into consideration how much you would pay to wipe larger things (such as monstrous creatures right now).
Powerful and useful: Yes; broken and polarazing: hardly.
The problem with your argument is that in this case, the utility of being able to pay more is more important than the downside of overpaying. yes, for 1 and 2 toughness guys you could get rid of them with other spells, but those spells that you mentioned can ONLY hit the 1/2 toughness range. This makes them fine for early turns, but after turn 4 they're generally not so good unless you're against RDW. Deluge has the benefit of being scaleable, meaning that unlike the other examples, Deluge can always wipe away a bad board. Anger of the Gods, the top end of your argument, whiffs against a lot of the meta (doesn't hit Baron of Vizkopa, doesn't hit Selesnya 4/4 for 3, doesn't hit Selesnya instant-Wurm, doesn't hit Ghost Daddy, etc.); however, Deluge can hit those if you need it to. As these cards are the cards that tend to be winning games, these are what sweepers need to get rid of; so far, Black doesn't have any sweepers that get rid of them (except Eviction, which is 6-cost and is usually too expensive). Because of this, I feel that you, in actuality, are understating Deluge's usefulness.
My thoughts. It replaces Perish on the sideboards of Legacy decks. It's worse against RUG (life is very important) Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
Frankly, I disagree. A RUG Delver player can sit back and play around a Perish with a Delver out, but you can't do that with Toxic Deluge.
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Obviously there are more ideal ways to answer Emrakul, but if my choice is to spend 15 life to remove emrakul or enter a position where I will quickly never be able to cast anything again, then I'll spend the life every time.
Patch me back to my mind
Blightsteel? No, just die.
Emrakul? No.
Also solid if you are playing midrange in Legacy. Kills all of your opponent's creatures, might leave one of yours alive.
Only creature it can't really hit is Marit Lage, where Swords to Plowshares is better.
The majority of people can't evaluate cards very well, you wouldn't believe all the hoopla Rakdos, Lord of Riots got while people balked at Sphinx's Revelation when it was first spoiled, citing it couldn't be used a win condition like Blue Sun's Zenith, among other things. I guess they never thought of.....you know.....drawing 5 and gaining 5 as a win condition. mind boggling stuff, I know.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
It doesn't require a multi-player format to make sense and it doesn't have any keywords that would restrict where it could be printed.
And it isn't?
Have all of them.
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Otherwise you'd call every card in your deck a win-con as they are all there to give you the chance to win the game.
A win-con is something that will win you the game: Door to Nothingness, Aetherling, Helix Pinnacle, Blaze are cards that would fit my definition of a win-con as they either win you the game as an effect or they enable you to make your opponents lose as part of their effect.
Sphinx Rev does nothing to your opponent (unless they have a Notion Thief and cannot draw enough from their Lib), but it may enable you to play a win-con or survive to get a win-con online.
I wouldn't think so. It seems very effective as a board-wipe and it seems like the game is slowing down, so such efficient early answers may totally quench any chance of building early aggressive decks against people who can splash Black.
It wouldn't surprise me if they'd reprint it in some additional set like a Duel-Deck or a Commander's Arsenal v.2 type of thing.
I'd really want Wizards to make "Commander's Bundle" which is basically a reprint of quite a bunch of good cards for the format that just is in short supply but not be limited to 15 cards and printed in foil versions.
I don't even play commander outside my playgroup with Gen 1's pre-con decks but I'd imagine that it would help quite a load of people to play a casual format.
Effectively they could ban those editions from tournament play so it's 100% meant for casual and thus carry much less value on the secondary market.
Quite frankly I find it slightly weird that Wizards want to "protect" collectors this much as all that actually does is increase the financial value of those cards because there's demand for their use in the game.
If you're a collector you have them for their collection-value, not financial value as singles (IMO) and they should carry little collection-value if they are reprints.
If you have Alpha-cards you cannot replace them with reprints to fill in the collection, because then it's just a name-collection and not a product-collection.
Ah well, never mind, I guess I just want to play the game and disregard the idea of a Collector's game.
Your opponent has 17 1/1 White/Red Soldier Tokens. Do you pay the 1 life to kill them all? YES (Because the alternative is a swing for 17)
Your opponent has a 2/2 Rakdos Cakler, a 2/2 Ash Zealot, a 3/3 Boros Reckoner, and a 3/3 Hellrider. Do you pay the 3 life to kill them all? YES (Because the alternative is swing for 10)
Your opponent has any Eldrazi? YES
Whatever amount you're paying, unless they are running a deck of big butted blockers, is going to be equal or less than the amount of punch in the face you're about to get hit with.
second example is 14, not 10.
In standard it would wreak havoc but it is possible that it is not all that fantastic in legacy or occasionally in EDH. In regards to Legacy I'm mostly referring to Show and Tell - so it's thin ground to say it is not good and I'd rather say that it looks pretty good in 60 card-deck formats - you can always SB it out against Show and Tell and dump in some Edicts or something.
In EDH there's however a chance that if you wipe the board using 7-15 life, that it causes enough directed hate and a pretty chunk of life total reduction to make you public enemy no. 1.
It's not the first time I've seen players go "Oh, that dude is low, let me get a frag on him!" and combine that with a player who just lost his entire combo-board (dunno who has combo-boards consisting of pure creatures but play along) or dominant position will likely want to retaliate.
If there's an unwritten rule in EDH I'd reckon it be the rule of retaliation
Well I wouldn't imagine it to be printed immediately ofcourse. As far as I'm concerned, we're still on the downward power swing from the height of New Phyrexia era caw-blade decks.
It took a few years for ooze to get printed into standard/modern. By that time, the overall power level might rise to the point where Toxic Deluge will be justified.
What I'd really like is for WotC to introduce a means of adding cards to Modern without touching standard. The modern masters product line seems perfect for the job to me. Reprint some favorites that never saw post-8th edition standard play. Both favorites from secondary products like planechase/commander precons or from sets that pre-dated 8th. That way cards can enter the modern environment without disrupting the standard of the time.
I understand that's how it works atm. I'd like them to introduce a means to add cards to modern without affecting standard.
The rules for modern legality were written prior to the existence of the modern masters product. IMO, future modern masters sets would be a great way to introduce cards to modern. Whether they be cards from offshoot products like planechase/commander precons, cards too powerful for standard, or cards that have keywords that would be difficult to find a home for.
I agree, but they would still have to be very careful. I'll admit that the best way to do this is to print cards multiple times prior to it entering Modern. Toxic Deluge is a good example. It's already going to have one massive printing, so if it get reprinted and "modernized", then it won't automatically be a $50 card.
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This, this, and all of this. Rakath just won the thread. Unfortunately, I cant really speak on formats like EDH (where I don't know as much) but this card would wreck ridiculous amounts of people's faces in standard.
Trading life to kill threats is advantageous because allowing them to beat your face turn after turn would result in even more damage. I will admit, however, this card is balanced by the fact that it isn't something you can rip off the top when you're losing horribly.
But seriously, I would play this in a heartbeat in standard...and people are on here b****ing about the life being too much for EDH? Where they start at 40?
Edit: Rakath: In your second example you forgot to include the Hellrider effect damage. You'd be takin 14.
In Legacy, I pay steep amounts of life pretty often. I've paid 6 life to kill a Goyf and its buddies. I've paid 8 life to off a Batterskull Germ token equipped with Umezawa's Jitte with 2 charge counters (and its buddy, Stoneforge Mystic). I've paid 7 life to kill Iona, Shield of Emeria on white. And yes, I've paid 15 life to kill Emrakul. I think I won all the games where I paid those exorbitant amounts of life except for the Batterskull game. The life loss matters (it can get me in Bolt or manland range, and Merfolk is good at getting me to manland range), but not that often.
Toxic Deluge might actually turn out to be worse in EDH, though. The board wipe, depending on how one-sided it is, can make you friends with most of your opponents or can make you the biggest target in the room. The life loss matters less there, but the politics matter more.
If this card ever was allowed in Standard it would be a mandatory 4-of in Esper Control. And, since the number of board sweeps would bump up to 8, it would put the deck back on top (which I feel has slipped off in favor of more aggressive/devotion builds).
I think its better then mutilate because it doesn't really restrict the types of decks it can be run in. A splash black with two other stronger colors could easily make this work.
On a completely seperate note: I like the new Esper commander that gains you life even when its not in play - then can be a draw engine and drain when it hits. I don't know how great Esper would be in that format but it would be fun to try.
That is a good point. Although in my christmasland, supply would be kept in check by modern masters 2+ having print runs comparable to core sets.
I'll settle for solving one problem at a time though. Imo, toxic deludge would have too great of an impact on standard atm. But I think it would be much more at home in modern. That's why I want to see a vehicle for adding cards to modern without warping standard. I'd like to see that first and worry about supply and the secondary market later.
In standard Anger of the Gods is pretty much clearing the board, which means that at a minimum you'd pay 3 life when you cast this. At 1 and 2 life the card is strictly inferior to both Shrivel and Infest two cards that have been printed in an uncommon slots (infest multiple times) and have in no way warped the meta.) The sweet spot in costructed most of the time is 5 toughness which means that as a board wipe you'd be paying a hefty 5 life on top of 3 mana for a full "wrath" effect not even taking into consideration how much you would pay to wipe larger things (such as monstrous creatures right now).
Powerful and useful: Yes; broken and polarazing: hardly.
It replaces Perish on the sideboards of Legacy decks. It's worse against RUG (life is very important), slightly worse against elves (life isn't that imporant), but more importantly deals with Goblins, Moms, Geists, etc. It's not a main deckable card, but fine for the sideboard.
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The problem with your argument is that in this case, the utility of being able to pay more is more important than the downside of overpaying. yes, for 1 and 2 toughness guys you could get rid of them with other spells, but those spells that you mentioned can ONLY hit the 1/2 toughness range. This makes them fine for early turns, but after turn 4 they're generally not so good unless you're against RDW. Deluge has the benefit of being scaleable, meaning that unlike the other examples, Deluge can always wipe away a bad board. Anger of the Gods, the top end of your argument, whiffs against a lot of the meta (doesn't hit Baron of Vizkopa, doesn't hit Selesnya 4/4 for 3, doesn't hit Selesnya instant-Wurm, doesn't hit Ghost Daddy, etc.); however, Deluge can hit those if you need it to. As these cards are the cards that tend to be winning games, these are what sweepers need to get rid of; so far, Black doesn't have any sweepers that get rid of them (except Eviction, which is 6-cost and is usually too expensive). Because of this, I feel that you, in actuality, are understating Deluge's usefulness.
Frankly, I disagree. A RUG Delver player can sit back and play around a Perish with a Delver out, but you can't do that with Toxic Deluge.
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