I just hope this isn't a test run on a new rarity. I'm thinking they could potentially do this as another level of premium above foil. So not that there would be cards obtainable only at that rarity but just that they could make black on black versions of cards that appear one per box or something like that. Let's hope not.
That's actually exactly what I'm hoping for, and I suspect is the reason we're seeing more exclusive products like this these days. What I don't want is a fifth rarity level (above Mythic). If getting people to chase cards that have no impact on the price to play is the solution, I'm all for it.
I think a lot of players don't realise fundamentally why they like trading and like opening packs and like aquiring new cards to build new decks. My personal opinion is that having something to reach for is a large part of what makes Magic so addicting. Once you own four of every card, what else is there? You can't really enjoy trading anymore. You can build anything you want, but don't get the same satisfaction from finally completing that deck you've been working so hard on. So what else is there? Oh, right, black-on-black promos! Now I can work towards getting that.
People complaining about all this stuff pandering to the rich need to realise that the rich need some reason to stay interested in this game too.
That's actually exactly what I'm hoping for, and I suspect is the reason we're seeing more exclusive products like this these days. What I don't want is a fifth rarity level (above Mythic). If getting people to chase cards that have no impact on the price to play is the solution, I'm all for it.
I think a lot of players don't realise fundamentally why they like trading and like opening packs and like aquiring new cards to build new decks. My personal opinion is that having something to reach for is a large part of what makes Magic so addicting. Once you own four of every card, what else is there? You can't really enjoy trading anymore. You can build anything you want, but don't get the same satisfaction from finally completing that deck you've been working so hard on. So what else is there? Oh, right, black-on-black promos! Now I can work towards getting that.
People complaining about all this stuff pandering to the rich need to realise that the rich need some reason to stay interested in this game too.
Quite true. I probably spend most of my 'mtg time' poppin packs, and trading cards for I'll rarely get to play. It is a form of gambling. You get the high from spending $4 with a chance to score $10-$50 in cards. The high comes from the feeling of the score, not necessarily the score itself.
I bought a box of MM, and the very first pack I popped from that box was a Foil Bob, with and Arcbound Ravenger and a spell snare. I had to compose myself for a while before I went on to open the next pack.
I see this as a way to be able to start reprinting plenty of goodies for the tournament players, but have SOMETHING out there for collectors to sink their teeth into that is exclusive and special.
Personally, I think this is ugly as hell, but see the appeal for others and know that some day they'll do something that I WILL want.
I see absolutely no problem with this, and I find it very difficult how anyone could have a problem with it. Making extra super special promos that are extremely rare isn't going to impact the power of your deck at all. This isn't even in the same ballpark as mythic rares decreasing the accessibility of a card (a small problem, if you consider it a problem at all), as mechanically equivalent substitutes to these Black on Black promos (aka, the non-promo version of the card) will be more accessible than other mythic rares in the same set, as both the promo and the print run are available.
The problems that come with a release of Nalathni Dragon/Mana Crypt-type cards, cards available in any form ONLY through a limited promotion, are universes apart from this and actually would be huge institutional problems for competitive play if they happened again in modern day. I hope WotC never does something like this again.
Complaining about Black on Black promos like this is literally complaining that pimping your deck with yolo-swag to show off your epeen is too expensive. You want conspicuous consumption without the price or luxury item status, which is literally impossible.
My wife and I are lucky enough to be going to sdcc this year, how do we get these? Will they be available starting on Thursday or is there only one certain day they have them? Will we need to rush right to the hasbro area when it opens on X day? Thanks!
Comic-Con vet here. Expect to line up in multiple lines for Hasbro. First line will be to get a wrist bracelet with an appointed time slot to get into a second line to buy at the Hasbro area. First line will be filled pretty quickly and expect to run out of daily bracelets by 8am-9am in the morning. Two years ago I had to wait 4 1/2 hours in two lines to get my hands on Hasbro products.
As a planeswalker collector who has every printing of every planeswalker thus far, I am both excited and irritated by these. On the one hand, I am thrilled to have more unique planeswalkers in my collection (And I think the art style is neat). On the other hand, I am not happy about the exclusivity of these promos. I expect to pay a pretty penny for them but I am no stranger to high cost with my collection as I shelled out about $125 for the book promo Jace Beleren (worth it). Luckily I pulled a JTMS in my very first fat pack when I started playing magic around Worldwake time.
I do take comfort in the fact that a flight from my home to san diego is about $700, plus a two night stay in a hotel, another $100 or so, plus a badge for the convention is about $25 for one day, then you have to buy the kit from hasbro which who knows how much it will cost. There's a promo kit on ebay going for $350 which is a lot cheaper than trying to get them so I won't mind paying thereabouts to get them.
In this thread, people who play an expensive collectible card game complain that a...promotional card...is expensive and not freely available to all who want it.
It's a promotional item, wizards isn't "pandering to the wealthier players". They don't make any money off of the secondary market at all. You can play the normal version the same as the promo, so I don't see why there are so many complaints, it's not like exclusive promos are new to cards.
It's a promotional item, wizards isn't "pandering to the wealthier players". They don't make any money off of the secondary market at all. You can play the normal version the same as the promo, so I don't see why there are so many complaints, it's not like exclusive promos are new to cards.
The only complaint I have is that there is not a similar item for sale at GenCon so I can get it >: D
I have no problem with this existing. It's like Book Jace. You can still get a normal Jace Beleran for like $5 while the promo exists for the collectors.
This Black on Black walker set isn't going to affect almost anyone in the magic community. There won't be enough of them that you'll even likely see one outside of ebay ever. I've been playing competitive magic for more than a year now and casual for much longer than that and I've never seen a Book Jace.
Basically everyone in this thread complaining is overreacting about something that will likely never touch their lives.
I see no problem with this. If you're just worried about playing this card, it will be available in normal versions. Maybe it's because I'm the type of player who doesn't really care about having every version of everything.
There is nothing that says WotC cannot give these out later or at other events in some fashion. If I had the cards I would sell them immediately before WotC does decide to do another wave of them and tank their prices.
If it is not on the reserve list don't fret. WotC will re-print the crap out of anything that made them money or was successful.
There is nothing that says WotC cannot give these out later or at other events in some fashion. If I had the cards I would sell them immediately before WotC does decide to do another wave of them and tank their prices.
If it is not on the reserve list don't fret. WotC will re-print the crap out of anything that made them money or was successful.
Seriously doubt they will reprint these in the same form down the road. Especially since its tied to M14 which is being released around the same time as SDCC. Comic-Con Exclusives are well...Comic-Con Exclusive.
I have no problem with this existing. It's like Book Jace. You can still get a normal Jace Beleran for like $5 while the promo exists for the collectors.
This Black on Black walker set isn't going to affect almost anyone in the magic community. There won't be enough of them that you'll even likely see one outside of ebay ever. I've been playing competitive magic for more than a year now and casual for much longer than that and I've never seen a Book Jace.
Basically everyone in this thread complaining is overreacting about something that will likely never touch their lives.
This is nothing like book Jace. That was announced and was relatively easy to make arrangements to acquire. I made sure to ask that my lgs to order the book. They did so and quite a few people in my area were able to buy it for msrp with no hassle.
The biggest problem I have with this and other convention exclusives is that regardless of whether or not I have the financial means to attend a convention, the ticketing limitations make me unable to go.
There is nothing that says WotC cannot give these out later or at other events in some fashion. If I had the cards I would sell them immediately before WotC does decide to do another wave of them and tank their prices.
If it is not on the reserve list don't fret. WotC will re-print the crap out of anything that made them money or was successful.
You make it sound like this is the first limited product that they have produced which is most certainly not the case. Even the non-limited products haven't been reprinted. Look at duel decks, fat packs, etc. Also it would be really scummy of them to call it a SDCC exclusive and then release it at other events.
do they still die to dreadbore? yeah? okay then, move along folks. nothing to see here but a bunch of collectors foaming at the mouth over something that is only cosmetic. some people just have expensive tastes i guess. they may not make the best financial decisions because of it.
imo idk which garruk art looks more derpy, i dont want either, but i hope the other black on black versions look cooler.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was Hasbro's idea rather than Wizards' seeing as it's at their booth, but then I'm not sure if Wizards has one of their own. I can't afford to go to this, so I'm not in the loop.
Also it would be really scummy of them to call it a SDCC exclusive and then release it at other events.
WotC does what they want. Pick it up if you want to just know you are buying something highly volatile. Promotional items are just that. They want to stir up people to talk about it. Fact is if enough people ***** and moan about it WotC will fold quickly.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
WotC does what they want. Pick it up if you want to just know you are buying something highly volatile. Promotional items are just that. They want to stir up people to talk about it. Fact is if enough people ***** and moan about it WotC will fold quickly.
It only took Microsoft two weeks after E3 to fold....
It only took Microsoft two weeks after E3 to fold....
To be fair, Microsoft's problems with the Xbone were much more significant than these 'walkers.
I mean, these black-walkers are extremely pretty, but they're functionally identical to the others. It's like my alt-art wormcoil engine, just more limited in release.
If you guys want something to complain about, could you focus on breaking the "US only" limits for official competitions?
I feel that's a more consistent issue, on par with the Xbone not working in most of the world that isn't continental North America or Western Europe.
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“Tell me who you walk with, and I'll tell you who you are.” Esmeralda Santiago Art is life itself.
WotC does what they want. Pick it up if you want to just know you are buying something highly volatile. Promotional items are just that. They want to stir up people to talk about it. Fact is if enough people ***** and moan about it WotC will fold quickly.
Nothing can be further from the truth. I'm absolutely confident these are going to be a hot commodity and will stay that way. Hasbro SDCC exclusives has always been stable plus this is the first time (that I know of) where Magic is releasing a SDCC exclusive item. And given that Magic is picking up in popularity (GP Vegas), people will go crazy over this.
Again, I think people are focusing on the wrong fundamental point of my argument,
Rare cards and promos are good, Wizards expanding the types of alternate arts they're willing to print is good, and rewarding players for going to MTG events / tournaments* is good. All of these things help to build the MTG community and are steps Wizards takes in the right direction.
What is not good, and in fact TERRIBLE, is having promos given only to people of a certain area code. This is the same thing as the last YMTC that outraged so many people on this forum (and across the world), Wizards seemingly arbitrarily the participants in the contest to people of a certain area code (ok, Country Code in that case) **. The “Black on Black” promos marks the first time since DragonCon that Wizards has printed a promotional card exclusive for a particular region. People should be upset both because of the fact that this happened specifically, but also because it means Wizards is once again willing to engage in this kind of discriminatory behavior based solely on what part of the country / world you live in***. It is wrong and it’s something people should be upset about.
NOTES
* MTG events / tournaments distinct from this insofar as both of those can be seen as Wizards promoting a national professional tournament scene, which helps expand the player base. Advertising at an event that Hasbro/Wizards is participating in is completely different. Additionally, their decision to provide this promo exclusive to San Diego ComiCon (as opposed to all national / international ComiCon events that Hasbro / Wizards participates in) only serves to illustrate this point further.
** And yes, I do know that the plethora of issues that may come with opening up YMTC to an international audience may have been what prevented it from happening in that particular case, but that is not the case here.
*** And yes, the tournament issue of not being international is also something unfortunate along the same vein and relies on the same fundamental argument.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
I'm sure there are a ton of players in that region who will not make it to the event.
This is true, but it's an event that is (largely) confined to a playerbase in a particular region. There will be only a (relatively - to the total number of people attending - speaking) handful of people there who are not from the SoCal region. That's because there are Comic-Con events all over the world (and people typically go to the one closest to them). At ComiCon in Seattle this year, there were many people from out of town, but the majority of the visitors were local Seattleites. Theoretically anyone from around the world can attend, practically, the majority of people will be residents from the region. And while not all people from the region will make it to the event, only (for the most part) people the region will be there, confining the promos largely to the region (and eBay).
While GREATLY oversimplifying the issue, it can be reduced to a square-rectangle problem. All squares are rectangles, but not rectangles are squares. All attendees are Regional MTG players, but not all Regional MTG players are attendees. While this is a great oversimplification (because there will be some attendees from outside the region), it serves to illustrate the general principle behind my above assertions.
*** Think of it this way, ignoring any copies that end up on Ebay, probably >70% of the copies will stay in California (and, I'm guessing, 95+% in the USA) for the foreseeable future. For a game that has this level of international presence, this seems like a slap in the face to everyone who doesn't happen to live in the region***
lol, I would have preferred that, at least then (1) people would be more up-in-arms about this move (and the distinctions about these promos and all other promos in the past). (2) There would be more JTMS out there for people to play with. Finally (3) That would be sick and I would happy to have the card exist*
* And don't get me wrong, I think it's awesome they're printing these promos, just that it is a terrible and upsetting move that they will be confining them to this one region. If they offered these at every Convention Wizards / Hasbro was participating in over the next year, I would be far less upset about this. Doing that would allow people in many regions to have access to them, not just those in the SoCal region
That's actually exactly what I'm hoping for, and I suspect is the reason we're seeing more exclusive products like this these days. What I don't want is a fifth rarity level (above Mythic). If getting people to chase cards that have no impact on the price to play is the solution, I'm all for it.
I think a lot of players don't realise fundamentally why they like trading and like opening packs and like aquiring new cards to build new decks. My personal opinion is that having something to reach for is a large part of what makes Magic so addicting. Once you own four of every card, what else is there? You can't really enjoy trading anymore. You can build anything you want, but don't get the same satisfaction from finally completing that deck you've been working so hard on. So what else is there? Oh, right, black-on-black promos! Now I can work towards getting that.
People complaining about all this stuff pandering to the rich need to realise that the rich need some reason to stay interested in this game too.
Quite true. I probably spend most of my 'mtg time' poppin packs, and trading cards for I'll rarely get to play. It is a form of gambling. You get the high from spending $4 with a chance to score $10-$50 in cards. The high comes from the feeling of the score, not necessarily the score itself.
I bought a box of MM, and the very first pack I popped from that box was a Foil Bob, with and Arcbound Ravenger and a spell snare. I had to compose myself for a while before I went on to open the next pack.
Personally, I think this is ugly as hell, but see the appeal for others and know that some day they'll do something that I WILL want.
The problems that come with a release of Nalathni Dragon/Mana Crypt-type cards, cards available in any form ONLY through a limited promotion, are universes apart from this and actually would be huge institutional problems for competitive play if they happened again in modern day. I hope WotC never does something like this again.
Complaining about Black on Black promos like this is literally complaining that pimping your deck with yolo-swag to show off your epeen is too expensive. You want conspicuous consumption without the price or luxury item status, which is literally impossible.
Comic-Con vet here. Expect to line up in multiple lines for Hasbro. First line will be to get a wrist bracelet with an appointed time slot to get into a second line to buy at the Hasbro area. First line will be filled pretty quickly and expect to run out of daily bracelets by 8am-9am in the morning. Two years ago I had to wait 4 1/2 hours in two lines to get my hands on Hasbro products.
Legacy: Death and Taxes, U/B Reanimator
I do take comfort in the fact that a flight from my home to san diego is about $700, plus a two night stay in a hotel, another $100 or so, plus a badge for the convention is about $25 for one day, then you have to buy the kit from hasbro which who knows how much it will cost. There's a promo kit on ebay going for $350 which is a lot cheaper than trying to get them so I won't mind paying thereabouts to get them.
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The only complaint I have is that there is not a similar item for sale at GenCon so I can get it >: D
This Black on Black walker set isn't going to affect almost anyone in the magic community. There won't be enough of them that you'll even likely see one outside of ebay ever. I've been playing competitive magic for more than a year now and casual for much longer than that and I've never seen a Book Jace.
Basically everyone in this thread complaining is overreacting about something that will likely never touch their lives.
A comic about the world's most addictive game, Magic: The Gathering.
If it is not on the reserve list don't fret. WotC will re-print the crap out of anything that made them money or was successful.
Seriously doubt they will reprint these in the same form down the road. Especially since its tied to M14 which is being released around the same time as SDCC. Comic-Con Exclusives are well...Comic-Con Exclusive.
Legacy: Death and Taxes, U/B Reanimator
This is nothing like book Jace. That was announced and was relatively easy to make arrangements to acquire. I made sure to ask that my lgs to order the book. They did so and quite a few people in my area were able to buy it for msrp with no hassle.
The biggest problem I have with this and other convention exclusives is that regardless of whether or not I have the financial means to attend a convention, the ticketing limitations make me unable to go.
You make it sound like this is the first limited product that they have produced which is most certainly not the case. Even the non-limited products haven't been reprinted. Look at duel decks, fat packs, etc. Also it would be really scummy of them to call it a SDCC exclusive and then release it at other events.
imo idk which garruk art looks more derpy, i dont want either, but i hope the other black on black versions look cooler.
WotC does what they want. Pick it up if you want to just know you are buying something highly volatile. Promotional items are just that. They want to stir up people to talk about it. Fact is if enough people ***** and moan about it WotC will fold quickly.
It only took Microsoft two weeks after E3 to fold....
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
I mean, these black-walkers are extremely pretty, but they're functionally identical to the others. It's like my alt-art wormcoil engine, just more limited in release.
If you guys want something to complain about, could you focus on breaking the "US only" limits for official competitions?
I feel that's a more consistent issue, on par with the Xbone not working in most of the world that isn't continental North America or Western Europe.
Art is life itself.
Nothing can be further from the truth. I'm absolutely confident these are going to be a hot commodity and will stay that way. Hasbro SDCC exclusives has always been stable plus this is the first time (that I know of) where Magic is releasing a SDCC exclusive item. And given that Magic is picking up in popularity (GP Vegas), people will go crazy over this.
Legacy: Death and Taxes, U/B Reanimator
Rare cards and promos are good, Wizards expanding the types of alternate arts they're willing to print is good, and rewarding players for going to MTG events / tournaments* is good. All of these things help to build the MTG community and are steps Wizards takes in the right direction.
What is not good, and in fact TERRIBLE, is having promos given only to people of a certain area code. This is the same thing as the last YMTC that outraged so many people on this forum (and across the world), Wizards seemingly arbitrarily the participants in the contest to people of a certain area code (ok, Country Code in that case) **. The “Black on Black” promos marks the first time since DragonCon that Wizards has printed a promotional card exclusive for a particular region. People should be upset both because of the fact that this happened specifically, but also because it means Wizards is once again willing to engage in this kind of discriminatory behavior based solely on what part of the country / world you live in***. It is wrong and it’s something people should be upset about.
NOTES
* MTG events / tournaments distinct from this insofar as both of those can be seen as Wizards promoting a national professional tournament scene, which helps expand the player base. Advertising at an event that Hasbro/Wizards is participating in is completely different. Additionally, their decision to provide this promo exclusive to San Diego ComiCon (as opposed to all national / international ComiCon events that Hasbro / Wizards participates in) only serves to illustrate this point further.
** And yes, I do know that the plethora of issues that may come with opening up YMTC to an international audience may have been what prevented it from happening in that particular case, but that is not the case here.
*** And yes, the tournament issue of not being international is also something unfortunate along the same vein and relies on the same fundamental argument.
.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
I'm sure there are a ton of players in that region who will not make it to the event.
This is true, but it's an event that is (largely) confined to a playerbase in a particular region. There will be only a (relatively - to the total number of people attending - speaking) handful of people there who are not from the SoCal region. That's because there are Comic-Con events all over the world (and people typically go to the one closest to them). At ComiCon in Seattle this year, there were many people from out of town, but the majority of the visitors were local Seattleites. Theoretically anyone from around the world can attend, practically, the majority of people will be residents from the region. And while not all people from the region will make it to the event, only (for the most part) people the region will be there, confining the promos largely to the region (and eBay).
While GREATLY oversimplifying the issue, it can be reduced to a square-rectangle problem. All squares are rectangles, but not rectangles are squares. All attendees are Regional MTG players, but not all Regional MTG players are attendees. While this is a great oversimplification (because there will be some attendees from outside the region), it serves to illustrate the general principle behind my above assertions.
*** Think of it this way, ignoring any copies that end up on Ebay, probably >70% of the copies will stay in California (and, I'm guessing, 95+% in the USA) for the foreseeable future. For a game that has this level of international presence, this seems like a slap in the face to everyone who doesn't happen to live in the region***
lol, I would have preferred that, at least then (1) people would be more up-in-arms about this move (and the distinctions about these promos and all other promos in the past). (2) There would be more JTMS out there for people to play with. Finally (3) That would be sick and I would happy to have the card exist*
* And don't get me wrong, I think it's awesome they're printing these promos, just that it is a terrible and upsetting move that they will be confining them to this one region. If they offered these at every Convention Wizards / Hasbro was participating in over the next year, I would be far less upset about this. Doing that would allow people in many regions to have access to them, not just those in the SoCal region
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa