Something people didn't seem to consider when making a stink about similar exclusive promos (like the Helvault disaster) is that part of the reasoning behind WOTC's decision may be an inability or unwillingness to print them on a larger scale. I have no idea what WOTC's thought process is and don't claim to, but I could certainly understand if this new process was something they felt was sufficiently experimental to warrant testing on a single event before risking making a much more widespread promo, only to find people hate them, and there's backlash for these "terrible, hideous" promos replacing something else.
It's the same thinking that bit them with the Helvaults, but it's not bad logic, it's just human nature that's particularly unpleasant. While I can understand the emotional reaction behind discovering that some stores got much, much better Helvaults than you, and being jealous, WOTC was pretty clear in that case that they did not have enough cards to put good promos in all the Helvaults. It was either a select few, special Helvaults, or none at all.
Now, perhaps WOTC could be justified in making these promos more widespreadly available, but if I'm not mistaken these promos are not replacing anything else, or taking away from anything else. If WOTC has legitimate reason to want to print them in a small run for one event, regardless of if you agree with it or not, then the situation is the same as the Helvaults: either a select few can get these fancy promos, or nobody does.
Human psychology always seems to assume that somebody else benefiting is doing so at your expense, and would really prefer that nobody gets anything, than somebody else getting something cool that you can't have. Rationally, it makes no sense: if the options are promos for this con, or no promos for this con, why would you argue to have the cool cards taken away from somebody else, just because you didn't get one?
Perhaps WOTC should have dispensed these cards to a larger audience, but I imagine there were reasons, at least some of which would be fiscal, that kept them from doing so. In which case, you not getting one is the only possible outcome, so why begrudge others theirs? Besides, even if these were given out to every convention and large event in the country, there'd still be plenty of people bemoaning the unfairness of not being able to get one themselves.
Consider that other people getting nice things isn't necessarily at your expense.
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DCI Level 2 Judge
If your question is "What would a judge do is this situation?", only one person's answer is relevant, and that is the Head Judge at your event. I can quote the rules, but I don't know your HJ.
Even if it's just testing to see if these are popular it still sucks. But i'm not up in arms about it. Worst case is they hit the high SCG prices and I've got to trade in alot of cards to get them.
and exactly how do these help the game survive? I don't see how this helps anything survive. I don't hear anyone saying "thank god for the jace book promo, or the last 5 years would have never happened" there is no reason that promo needs to be as expensive as it is, and no reason we need five more.
The point is you don't NEED this to play. That you want it is another thing. I don't NEED a $1.000.000 car - if I have the money I can buy it and drive around and pick up girls. Else I have to do with my used $1000 car.
It's the same with these promos. If they printed them in large scale they would lose their meaning. The idea of them is that they are exclusive, and that's in itself what makes them wanted even more.
The reason they are good for the game is that there's a subset of people that not only play this game but also use it as a collectable. A collectable thing is only really collectable if it's somewhat exclusive. Who wants to collect Stone Rains for instance (ok - there's actually a guy that collects them as well, but you get the point right?).
So to come back to the point, the reason these very rare promo items are good for the game is that they create wanted mythical items, that don't influence the game itself, but only the collector circles. That so many in here already want them makes me think they are already a great success.
I think you're describing a pretty small market, and an issue within that market that doesn't exist. There are still plenty of rare and collectible cards, and recently Wizards has taken to short printing things mor often than before. Take commanders arsenal, for instance.
So if that really is the reason, it strikes me as odd because that's some really niche pandering. And even so this is a whole different kind of rare than was in place before, and collectors got along fine.
We have Mythics, Foil Mythics, Judge promos... from the vault, how much more exclusive do things have to get?
I don't get the Nalathni Dragon analogy. These are simply promo versions of cards that will be widely available.
If you want to play the game, you can still get the cards which will function the same.
If you want to collect these, then obviously you have to pay a collector's premium.
The Dragon analogy is not that the regular version won't be available, but instead that there is an exclusive promo that is given to a specific region (similar to how the dragon was an exclusive promo given to a specific region). Yes, regular versions will be available to everyone, but these are no ordinary promo. These are different enough from all other promos that they warrant their own category of cards.
But again, this is not my main complaint. Even if these were just alt-art cards, it wouldn't matter, it would still be one of the worst decisions Wizards has ever made. It's their decision to give an exclusive promo to a specific, non-wizards affiliated local event.
Re: the Hellavault (and, though not brought up yet, the "hidden gems" of Zendikar), these are fine in my opinion because it's much like opening up a booster pack, some were good and some were not. However, EVERYONE had a CHANCE for getting the good hellavaults regardless of where you were in the country / world. This is exclusive to SoCal and those lucky enough to have time / money to travel to a comic book convention instead of working.
Re: the Hellavault (and, though not brought up yet, the "hidden gems" of Zendikar), these are fine in my opinion because it's much like opening up a booster pack, some were good and some were not. However, EVERYONE had a CHANCE for getting the good hellavaults regardless of where you were in the country / world. This is exclusive to SoCal and those lucky enough to have time / money to travel to a comic book convention instead of working.
Or were these the same people that worked and set aside the money and time to go to this, long before this was even announced.
I don't think there is anything wrong with promos like these, almost all of the people going chose to go long ago after they planned it all out. To me it is no different than FNM promos, where my LGS gives them out to top 3 and one random person, or judge foils.
I think it is pretty cool they made the promos so different, which may mean they are testing waters for something, or they just wanted to do this for no reason other than to do it. I sure as hell won't be getting one any time soon, but I still think these are neat.
Actually, this is only a collector's/compulsive pimper's issue. if the card was really special like a Force of Will or so, I could understand the value. Here's, it's just an alternate version of a core set card that will be widely available.
I don't feel it's providing a special item for a specific area. It's providing an item for the Largest Comic convention of the popular "cons."
Think outside of the magic card realm for a second. SDCC is known for having companies release special variants of comics, figures, and other merch with their special Comic con logo. These things are specific to the con, not the region.
There are so many things to offer and mtg is just something new on this list. Personally, I can't go to get one, but I'm glad they are making these. Now mtg is on the list of SDCC exclusives for 2013.
However, EVERYONE had a CHANCE for getting the good hellavaults regardless of where you were in the country / world. This is exclusive to SoCal and those lucky enough to have time / money to travel to a comic book convention instead of working.
Right. But you're not entitled to a chance to get one of these promos. When WOTC prints new promos, they don't have to be fair in their distribution. The nature of the world is that sometimes other people get opportunities you don't.
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If your question is "What would a judge do is this situation?", only one person's answer is relevant, and that is the Head Judge at your event. I can quote the rules, but I don't know your HJ.
I am holding out that there will be a 'black on black' chase set hiding in regular M14 packs. Maybe one per box? Or at the same rarity as foils? That would drive sales like crazy and keep vendors and collectors happy.
My wife and I are lucky enough to be going to sdcc this year, how do we get these? Will they be available starting on Thursday or is there only one certain day they have them? Will we need to rush right to the hasbro area when it opens on X day? Thanks!
this would, for me, be the ultimate desirable version of a card... if i was able to get cards i like in black-on-black with foil.... ugh... the thought just makes me excited. let's hope wizards does something more with this fantastic idea.
i live in the UK. it looks like this sort of thing might be out of my reach, physically and monetarily. damn shame. it's exactly my kind of thing and i'd pay reasonable money for it on regular cards (for WOTC employees - modern masters money is NOT reasonable money over £250 in the uk for a box of 24 boosters is just ridiculous, no matter how great the set is).
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
My wife and I are lucky enough to be going to sdcc this year, how do we get these? Will they be available starting on Thursday or is there only one certain day they have them? Will we need to rush right to the hasbro area when it opens on X day? Thanks!
It'll be available the moment the Hasbro Toy Shop opens. Most people are there for the toy exclusives and free swag, not magic cards. From what my friend has told me (he's gone three years in a row now), there has not been a single exclusive that has sold out on day one. Even the hottest item last year (Derpy Hooves, a My Little Pony character) took two days to sell out. As long as you and your wife are both in line the first day, there's a good chance you'll be able to secure a set each for yourselves. Obviously, the earlier you line up, the better your chances.
I really don't see this being that limited. I see this as a cross-culture marketing tactic that is meant to entice new players into the fold by giving them relatively powerful cards to experiment with. Given the exclusive nature of SDCC, I don't have a problem with Hasbro releasing a niche promotional product, whether I get it or not.
To those commenting on the art, have the others been revealed? I've only seen Garruk, and while it's nowhere near as cool as the badassery of Garruk 1.0-3.0, I still like it for its uniqueness.
I think these cards are SO SICK!!! I'd love a blacked out deck! I wish they would do promo lands blacked out because the black/black looks mean!!
Look at comiccon and see how many other companies are doing sdcc only promos. Maybe that will bring things into reality a little more. There is always exclusive shwag at these events from all sorts of different companies. Wizards isn't alone promoting exclusive merch.
Stuff like this is AMAZING. I'm an older magic player, started during Revised, quit, started back up during the first Ravnica block, sold all my cards again right before X,(wish I still had those 20+ revised duals, foil bobs, dci promo foils and shocklands ) and have recently started back up. For people of my age BUT have played consistently since revised, this is the kind of thing to hunt down.
I think it is respect to the fans from wizards, not an FU. It's going to provide a hype for this set. Thousands of people flock to comicon so it's not like there is only going to be 10 of each card.
Yeah. I like planeswalker promos. I COLLECT planeswalkers. But this is going to be REALLY, REALLY hard to get a hold of. Already selling on Ebay for $200.00 this is unfortunate for us little folk. They look cool too, but being at one sold out event is a little extreme. and its consistent with Wizards pattern of pandering toward wealthier players. Pretty sad, really.
I am going to Comic-Con and I will be buying one of these and I am FAR from wealthy.
Cost to me and my fiance is going to be around $2200 for the entire trip. We have been planning and saving for 8 months so we could go.
However, we did get EXTREMELY lucky with our badges
I just hope this isn't a test run on a new rarity. I'm thinking they could potentially do this as another level of premium above foil. So not that there would be cards obtainable only at that rarity but just that they could make black on black versions of cards that appear one per box or something like that. Let's hope not.
I just hope this isn't a test run on a new rarity. I'm thinking they could potentially do this as another level of premium above foil. So not that there would be cards obtainable only at that rarity but just that they could make black on black versions of cards that appear one per box or something like that. Let's hope not.
I would have no problem at all with this, personally. It's a free chase that does nothing to detract from the set. Make it one per crate like the mount cards in the WoW TCG.
I just hope this isn't a test run on a new rarity. I'm thinking they could potentially do this as another level of premium above foil. So not that there would be cards obtainable only at that rarity but just that they could make black on black versions of cards that appear one per box or something like that. Let's hope not.
I would only be okay with B on B foils in packs if they were of the mythic rares in the set (or just PWers). I wouldn't want to open B on B foil commons. As a collector I would understand the bloodrush and frustration of "needing" to get them all though.
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My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
I just hope this isn't a test run on a new rarity. I'm thinking they could potentially do this as another level of premium above foil. So not that there would be cards obtainable only at that rarity but just that they could make black on black versions of cards that appear one per box or something like that. Let's hope not.
Fine by me. I'd buy a box for a chance at a card that may only have 1 super chase rare in it.
Did anyone else notice the collector number on the black/black version is *172/249 whereas the collector number on the regular version is 152/249? Wouldn't you expect the collector number on the black/black version to be *152/249? Probably just a typo but something I noticed nonetheless.
Cool card. Awesome for the people that get 'em. Also awesome for me because I like to laugh at the people that feel they deserve one, complain about the price/availability, and say they feel cheated only because they're upset they didn't get one. Do you have to have every card? It's just a game. Chill.
I hope this is hinting more at day/night cards in Theros. Black on black for night, white on white for day. That was my first thought when I saw it.
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It's the same thinking that bit them with the Helvaults, but it's not bad logic, it's just human nature that's particularly unpleasant. While I can understand the emotional reaction behind discovering that some stores got much, much better Helvaults than you, and being jealous, WOTC was pretty clear in that case that they did not have enough cards to put good promos in all the Helvaults. It was either a select few, special Helvaults, or none at all.
Now, perhaps WOTC could be justified in making these promos more widespreadly available, but if I'm not mistaken these promos are not replacing anything else, or taking away from anything else. If WOTC has legitimate reason to want to print them in a small run for one event, regardless of if you agree with it or not, then the situation is the same as the Helvaults: either a select few can get these fancy promos, or nobody does.
Human psychology always seems to assume that somebody else benefiting is doing so at your expense, and would really prefer that nobody gets anything, than somebody else getting something cool that you can't have. Rationally, it makes no sense: if the options are promos for this con, or no promos for this con, why would you argue to have the cool cards taken away from somebody else, just because you didn't get one?
Perhaps WOTC should have dispensed these cards to a larger audience, but I imagine there were reasons, at least some of which would be fiscal, that kept them from doing so. In which case, you not getting one is the only possible outcome, so why begrudge others theirs? Besides, even if these were given out to every convention and large event in the country, there'd still be plenty of people bemoaning the unfairness of not being able to get one themselves.
Consider that other people getting nice things isn't necessarily at your expense.
If your question is "What would a judge do is this situation?", only one person's answer is relevant, and that is the Head Judge at your event. I can quote the rules, but I don't know your HJ.
The point is you don't NEED this to play. That you want it is another thing. I don't NEED a $1.000.000 car - if I have the money I can buy it and drive around and pick up girls. Else I have to do with my used $1000 car.
It's the same with these promos. If they printed them in large scale they would lose their meaning. The idea of them is that they are exclusive, and that's in itself what makes them wanted even more.
The reason they are good for the game is that there's a subset of people that not only play this game but also use it as a collectable. A collectable thing is only really collectable if it's somewhat exclusive. Who wants to collect Stone Rains for instance (ok - there's actually a guy that collects them as well, but you get the point right?).
So to come back to the point, the reason these very rare promo items are good for the game is that they create wanted mythical items, that don't influence the game itself, but only the collector circles. That so many in here already want them makes me think they are already a great success.
My Tribal cube
My 93/94 old school cube
My Artifact cube
My Hearthstone Quiz App for iOS
So if that really is the reason, it strikes me as odd because that's some really niche pandering. And even so this is a whole different kind of rare than was in place before, and collectors got along fine.
We have Mythics, Foil Mythics, Judge promos... from the vault, how much more exclusive do things have to get?
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
The Dragon analogy is not that the regular version won't be available, but instead that there is an exclusive promo that is given to a specific region (similar to how the dragon was an exclusive promo given to a specific region). Yes, regular versions will be available to everyone, but these are no ordinary promo. These are different enough from all other promos that they warrant their own category of cards.
But again, this is not my main complaint. Even if these were just alt-art cards, it wouldn't matter, it would still be one of the worst decisions Wizards has ever made. It's their decision to give an exclusive promo to a specific, non-wizards affiliated local event.
Re: the Hellavault (and, though not brought up yet, the "hidden gems" of Zendikar), these are fine in my opinion because it's much like opening up a booster pack, some were good and some were not. However, EVERYONE had a CHANCE for getting the good hellavaults regardless of where you were in the country / world. This is exclusive to SoCal and those lucky enough to have time / money to travel to a comic book convention instead of working.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Or were these the same people that worked and set aside the money and time to go to this, long before this was even announced.
I don't think there is anything wrong with promos like these, almost all of the people going chose to go long ago after they planned it all out. To me it is no different than FNM promos, where my LGS gives them out to top 3 and one random person, or judge foils.
I think it is pretty cool they made the promos so different, which may mean they are testing waters for something, or they just wanted to do this for no reason other than to do it. I sure as hell won't be getting one any time soon, but I still think these are neat.
Think outside of the magic card realm for a second. SDCC is known for having companies release special variants of comics, figures, and other merch with their special Comic con logo. These things are specific to the con, not the region.
There are so many things to offer and mtg is just something new on this list. Personally, I can't go to get one, but I'm glad they are making these. Now mtg is on the list of SDCC exclusives for 2013.
Right. But you're not entitled to a chance to get one of these promos. When WOTC prints new promos, they don't have to be fair in their distribution. The nature of the world is that sometimes other people get opportunities you don't.
If your question is "What would a judge do is this situation?", only one person's answer is relevant, and that is the Head Judge at your event. I can quote the rules, but I don't know your HJ.
this would, for me, be the ultimate desirable version of a card... if i was able to get cards i like in black-on-black with foil.... ugh... the thought just makes me excited. let's hope wizards does something more with this fantastic idea.
i live in the UK. it looks like this sort of thing might be out of my reach, physically and monetarily. damn shame. it's exactly my kind of thing and i'd pay reasonable money for it on regular cards (for WOTC employees - modern masters money is NOT reasonable money over £250 in the uk for a box of 24 boosters is just ridiculous, no matter how great the set is).
It'll be available the moment the Hasbro Toy Shop opens. Most people are there for the toy exclusives and free swag, not magic cards. From what my friend has told me (he's gone three years in a row now), there has not been a single exclusive that has sold out on day one. Even the hottest item last year (Derpy Hooves, a My Little Pony character) took two days to sell out. As long as you and your wife are both in line the first day, there's a good chance you'll be able to secure a set each for yourselves. Obviously, the earlier you line up, the better your chances.
I really don't see this being that limited. I see this as a cross-culture marketing tactic that is meant to entice new players into the fold by giving them relatively powerful cards to experiment with. Given the exclusive nature of SDCC, I don't have a problem with Hasbro releasing a niche promotional product, whether I get it or not.
To those commenting on the art, have the others been revealed? I've only seen Garruk, and while it's nowhere near as cool as the badassery of Garruk 1.0-3.0, I still like it for its uniqueness.
meat's Trade Corner
Look at comiccon and see how many other companies are doing sdcc only promos. Maybe that will bring things into reality a little more. There is always exclusive shwag at these events from all sorts of different companies. Wizards isn't alone promoting exclusive merch.
Stuff like this is AMAZING. I'm an older magic player, started during Revised, quit, started back up during the first Ravnica block, sold all my cards again right before X,(wish I still had those 20+ revised duals, foil bobs, dci promo foils and shocklands ) and have recently started back up. For people of my age BUT have played consistently since revised, this is the kind of thing to hunt down.
I think it is respect to the fans from wizards, not an FU. It's going to provide a hype for this set. Thousands of people flock to comicon so it's not like there is only going to be 10 of each card.
I am going to Comic-Con and I will be buying one of these and I am FAR from wealthy.
Cost to me and my fiance is going to be around $2200 for the entire trip. We have been planning and saving for 8 months so we could go.
However, we did get EXTREMELY lucky with our badges
I would have no problem at all with this, personally. It's a free chase that does nothing to detract from the set. Make it one per crate like the mount cards in the WoW TCG.
meat's Trade Corner
I would only be okay with B on B foils in packs if they were of the mythic rares in the set (or just PWers). I wouldn't want to open B on B foil commons. As a collector I would understand the bloodrush and frustration of "needing" to get them all though.
Feel free to tell me yours!
Fine by me. I'd buy a box for a chance at a card that may only have 1 super chase rare in it.
I hope this is hinting more at day/night cards in Theros. Black on black for night, white on white for day. That was my first thought when I saw it.