So, for anyone who doesn't know yet, San Diego Comicon will have exclusive promo's of all the M14 planeswalkers that will have alternate "black-on-black" artwork.
Does this bother anyone else. While I know that alternate artwork foils are given out at large events (e.g. alt art foil vengvine at the MTG World Cup Qualifier). However, I think this is different. First of all, in that case it involves a promo for a magic tournment that Wizards is trying to promote. Second, there are several different Comicon (Including one in my great city of Seattle), however, these do not get any promos (much less THESE promos). I am extremely disappointed that I'm not going to get a chance at these and they're probably going to carry a fairly large price tag on the secondary market.
This seems to remind me of the story behind Nalathni Dragon (found here). Essentially, they printed an exclusive card that could only be gotten from DragonCon, and the MTG community got into an uproar over the fact that they weren't available everywhere and Wizards finally caved and put the promo in the next issue of the Duelist.
The argument was "The players were up in arms. Not so much because of Nalathni Dragon, but because of what it represented. What happens when the next one-of-a-kind, have-to-be-there-to-get-it card was on the power level of Mana Crypt? Clearly, being a promo card didn't mean you had to suck. One day the powerful promo and the impossible-to-get condition were going to overlap."
The issue is not that people wouldn't have the ability to get the cards, but that they would cost a lot to get on the secondary market. This is largely analogous and I suppose it just bugs me that they're doing this, even more so that it's not a universal thing that they do all over the country (giving all regions the same ability to access these kinds of promos).
Edit: FOR MODERATOR, Crap, meant to put this is New Card Discussion, if a mod could move it, that would be excellent . . .
Yeah. I like planeswalker promos. I COLLECT planeswalkers. But this is going to be REALLY, REALLY hard to get a hold of. Already selling on Ebay for $200.00 this is unfortunate for us little folk. They look cool too, but being at one sold out event is a little extreme. and its consistent with Wizards pattern of pandering toward wealthier players. Pretty sad, really.
No, this is entirely different than Nalathni Dragon and is just like some other promos (GPs, Judge foils). The problem with the dragon was that was the ONLY way to get that specific card. These are just alternate versions of cards from the core set, you know, promos. Like at a GP that you can't easily attend, or a comic con you can't easily attend. Judge foils are also super exclusive.
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No, this is entirely different than Nalathni Dragon and is just like some other promos (GPs, Judge foils). The problem with the dragon was that was the ONLY way to get that specific card. These are just alternate versions of cards from the core set, you know, promos. Like at a GP that you can't easily attend, or a comic con you can't easily attend. Judge foils are also super exclusive.
I acknowledged the difference between the two and don't think they're the same, just analogous. However, Judge promos can be gotten by judges around the world. Additionally Wizards has a right (and fiduciary duty) to promote their large, national / international tournaments, a.k.a. promo's at large tournaments seems very reasonable as a way to keep the game (specifically professional tournament scene) healthy. It's also worth noting that GP promos can be gotten all across the world at ANY of the GPs (there were about 50 of them around the world this season).
This is different.
This is a promo for a few people who are selected based almost exclusively on the region they live in, nothing else. To my knowledge, Wizards hasn't done anything like this for years and I thought it was worth pointing out.
I don't even know what WotC have to gain from this. Even if a lot of magic players are going to Comic Con, these end up on Ebay for ridiculous amounts and nobody except some sharks have anything to gain from this. Just give them to the top 50 players in the world if you're going to do something like this, or set up a contest on the internet or something. Oh wait, non-US citizens can't compete in those either. Europe gets screwed over regardless. Alternate art is one thing, but something so radically different not ending up where it's supposed to, it just stings.
So what? It's just a cool promo. WoTC doesn't need to have anything to gain. Who cares if not everyone is going to get one, reasonable price or not.
There are plenty of pretty exclusive promos that reach high prices, why start complaining about it now?
Just as an aside, San Diego Comicon is orders of magnitude larger than any of the other "Comicon's" besides, maybe New York Comicon. It gets attendence from people around the world, and is one of the major events of the year. It gets nearly three times as many people as Seattle's local convention. The practice of giving swag at an event like SDCC is so incredibly not unique that I'm a little shocked people are freaking out over it. I honestly expected this thread to be about how ugly the promo cards look.
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I"m not *starting* now. Access is an increasing issue in this game. This is the latest in a long line of wierdly stingy exclusives that Wizards only has more to gain by making more widespread. I'm totally confused as to their intentions with these...
Can we, as a community, just this once say "oh, that looks cool, how great for the people that can get them!"?
While I stand little-to-no chance of ever getting any of these Black-on-Blacks, I think they look fantastic and would love it if we (as a community) encouraged WotC to do more promos like this rather than complain about it. Maybe, just maybe, if we stop complaining about every cool thing they try to give us, we'll get more (and more accessible) cool stuff. If these were well-received and they occasionally did this color treatment on, say, tournament-specific promos, I think it'd be awesome.
Can we, as a community, just this once say "oh, that looks cool, how great for the people that can get them!"?
While I stand little-to-no chance of ever getting any of these Black-on-Blacks, I think they look awesome and would love it if we (as a community) encouraged WotC to do more promos like this rather than complain about it. Maybe, just maybe, if we stop complaining about every cool thing they try to give us, we'll get more (and more accessible) cool stuff.
Oh, without a doubt, it is awesome that these exist. This isn't a complaining thing (for me anyway.) It's more of a "Damn do I wish I was going to Comic Con because this is going to kick so much ass."
These promos are almost certainly the ugliest things that Wizards has ever made.
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
Just as an aside, San Diego Comicon is orders of magnitude larger than any of the other "Comicon's" besides, maybe New York Comicon. It gets attendence from people around the world, and is one of the major events of the year. It gets nearly three times as many people as Seattle's local convention. The practice of giving swag at an event like SDCC is so incredibly not unique that I'm a little shocked people are freaking out over it. I honestly expected this thread to be about how ugly the promo cards look.
Yes, some people can travel to a comic book convention from around the world, and yes, it's larger than Seattle ComiCon, that's not the point. The point is that Wizards took one local (and yes, despite the fact that that SOME people come from out-of-town, it is local) event and gave them an exclusive promo, much in the same fashion that the dragon promo went to DragonCon. Something like FTV, judge promos, GP promos, etc, are all accessible from around the world (or at least around the country here in 'Murica), this is not.
This is an exclusive promo for people from SoCal and the fact is this is the first time I can think of, save for the DragonCon debacle, that Wizards has done something like this. It's a step in completely the wrong direction for them, and making sure Wizards is aware this is bad for the MTG community at large seems like an important first step in getting them to stop that kind of stuff.
And as for aesthetics, I think they're different than any card that wizards has ever printed, which makes them fairly awesome all on their own. I'm not sure which I like more, but I certainly would rather be sleeving these up than a foil foreign version of the same card. Wizards is hyping Chandra, so if we get a modern playable red walker with this alt art (where only a few thousand copies exist in the world), it's going to be very expensive, and very "cool"
Can we, as a community, just this once say "oh, that looks cool, how great for the people that can get them!"?
While I stand little-to-no chance of ever getting any of these Black-on-Blacks, I think they look fantastic and would love it if we (as a community) encouraged WotC to do more promos like this rather than complain about it. Maybe, just maybe, if we stop complaining about every cool thing they try to give us, we'll get more (and more accessible) cool stuff. If these were well-received and they occasionally did this color treatment on, say, tournament-specific promos, I think it'd be awesome.
You don't get it, I wouldn't care if they gave these ONLY to the winners of each GP (and only 50-100 copies of them existed in the world), i would have a chance at them. The issue is that this is a promo given to a specific group of people based on where they live and not even for a MTG event. This is VASTLY different that EVERY OTHER PROMO that has been printed
Oh, without a doubt, it is awesome that these exist. This isn't a complaining thing (for me anyway.) It's more of a "Damn do I wish I was going to Comic Con because this is going to kick so much ass."
Even if I were in SoCal right now I would still be arguing this thread, it's wrong for Wizards to print cards for people based on where they live, it's the exact same logic that got Wizards into trouble with DragonCon and they should not have done it.
This is exactly the kind of promos this game needs. For once wizards is doing something right. The jace book promo and these are the kind of cards that make people feel they own something special - like foils but rarer. A collectable card game needs these super rare items to survive.
It's not like people can't play competitive without these cards, they can just sleeve up some regular versions... I think the discussion in here shows that too many people in our community* act like brats that are used to getting everything they point on - if they don't get it they'll throw themselfs to the floor and start to cry.
* the community as general, but especially mtgs that have a group of people that just complain about everything all the time.
Awful money grabbing by Wizards if these will only ever be available at SDCC, which is already a lottery to get into and super prohibitive to begin with.
Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
I think it's an issue of complacency. "Oh, no people have an opinion opposite mine THEY are cry babies!" Of course, i didn't realize that i was invalidly *****ing about everything.
and exactly how do these help the game survive? I don't see how this helps anything survive. I don't hear anyone saying "thank god for the jace book promo, or the last 5 years would have never happened" there is no reason that promo needs to be as expensive as it is, and no reason we need five more.
This is exactly the kind of promos this game needs. For once wizards is doing something right. The jace book promo and these are the kind of cards that make people feel they own something special - like foils but rarer. A collectable card game needs these super rare items to survive.
It's not like people can't play competitive without these cards, they can just sleeve up some regular versions... I think the discussion in here shows that too many people in our community* act like brats that are used to getting everything they point on - if they don't get it they'll throw themselfs to the floor and start to cry.
* the community as general, but especially mtgs that have a group of people that just complain about everything all the time.
No offense, but what about this is actually good? We've already got piles of excessively rare cards. Printing off another few isn't really doing anything for the game.
And no one is acting like a brat. They're just sick of getting shafted because for anyone at the con this is just simple purchase. Everyone gets why judge foils and such are exclusive. But this is like doing an FTV release in one city and at MSRP. This is just exclusive because not everyone has the time or money to go to the convention.
If they start making them available at other conventions then sure, that's fine. But this is just silly.
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They're just sick of getting shafted because for anyone that is in SoCal this is just simple purchase..
I agree with your post largely, but this actually isn't true. Aside from the restrictive admission fee, the tickets sell out almost as soon as they're on sale, and then, assuming these are not just being handed out, you have to have the extra money to buy this along with or instead of anything else you want. Then, presumably, you'll have to wait in line or luck out to actually acquire it.
I agree with your post largely, but this actually isn't true. Aside from the restrictive admission fee, the tickets sell out almost as soon as they're on sale, and then, assuming these are not just being handed out, you have to have the extra money to buy this along with or instead of anything else you want. Then, presumably, you'll have to wait in line or luck out to actually acquire it.
That's why I edited my post before you made yours ^^;
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Hey, lolis with katanas are awesome, and I don't care about their home country.
No offense, but what about this is actually good? We've already got piles of excessively rare cards. Printing off another few isn't really doing anything for the game.
And no one is acting like a brat. They're just sick of getting shafted because for anyone at the con this is just simple purchase. Everyone gets why judge foils and such are exclusive. But this is like doing an FTV release in one city and at MSRP. This is just exclusive because not everyone has the time or money to go to the convention.
If they start making them available at other conventions then sure, that's fine. But this is just silly.
The rarity.
There's quite a few players (and obviously collectors) who crave and respect rare stuff. Complaining about it comes off as explicitly jealous/whinny, imo... especially being how often they do such a thing and you know there's always the original art for those who want the functional card.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
I'm totally okay with this. I see it as a non-issue because the cards themselves (at least their generic versions) are fully accessible.
demand may far, far outstrip supply... but that's the nature of promos and/or exclusive cards, it's really just the *sunglasses* nature of beast.
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh
sorry, had to.
if these cards were exclusive AND tournament legal, like, as in they weren't also being printed in a core set, that's a legit reason to be upset.
as is, just like any other promo, it demands a premium, and only players willing and able to spend that much money will be in possession of them.
Awful money grabbing by Wizards if these will only ever be available at SDCC, which is already a lottery to get into and super prohibitive to begin with.
Exactly. Just because someone lives in southern california doesn't mean they can go to SDCC. Many of my friends and I were unable to acquire badges to the convention. Some of my friends were able to get badges so I'm hoping they'll be able to pick up a copy or two for me.
Now one thing to consider is that Hasbro's convention exclusives usually don't sell out and they'll be available on their online store the monday following the convention. But those are usually toys or action figures, which is completely different from Magic. There are some people that claim that there will be extras leftover, but I think that they're severely underestimating the magic community and how many investors, hoarders, and scalpers are out there.
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Does this bother anyone else. While I know that alternate artwork foils are given out at large events (e.g. alt art foil vengvine at the MTG World Cup Qualifier). However, I think this is different. First of all, in that case it involves a promo for a magic tournment that Wizards is trying to promote. Second, there are several different Comicon (Including one in my great city of Seattle), however, these do not get any promos (much less THESE promos). I am extremely disappointed that I'm not going to get a chance at these and they're probably going to carry a fairly large price tag on the secondary market.
This seems to remind me of the story behind Nalathni Dragon (found here). Essentially, they printed an exclusive card that could only be gotten from DragonCon, and the MTG community got into an uproar over the fact that they weren't available everywhere and Wizards finally caved and put the promo in the next issue of the Duelist.
The argument was "The players were up in arms. Not so much because of Nalathni Dragon, but because of what it represented. What happens when the next one-of-a-kind, have-to-be-there-to-get-it card was on the power level of Mana Crypt? Clearly, being a promo card didn't mean you had to suck. One day the powerful promo and the impossible-to-get condition were going to overlap."
The issue is not that people wouldn't have the ability to get the cards, but that they would cost a lot to get on the secondary market. This is largely analogous and I suppose it just bugs me that they're doing this, even more so that it's not a universal thing that they do all over the country (giving all regions the same ability to access these kinds of promos).
Edit: FOR MODERATOR, Crap, meant to put this is New Card Discussion, if a mod could move it, that would be excellent . . .
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
I acknowledged the difference between the two and don't think they're the same, just analogous. However, Judge promos can be gotten by judges around the world. Additionally Wizards has a right (and fiduciary duty) to promote their large, national / international tournaments, a.k.a. promo's at large tournaments seems very reasonable as a way to keep the game (specifically professional tournament scene) healthy. It's also worth noting that GP promos can be gotten all across the world at ANY of the GPs (there were about 50 of them around the world this season).
This is different.
This is a promo for a few people who are selected based almost exclusively on the region they live in, nothing else. To my knowledge, Wizards hasn't done anything like this for years and I thought it was worth pointing out.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
So what? It's just a cool promo. WoTC doesn't need to have anything to gain. Who cares if not everyone is going to get one, reasonable price or not.
There are plenty of pretty exclusive promos that reach high prices, why start complaining about it now?
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
-True Blood
While I stand little-to-no chance of ever getting any of these Black-on-Blacks, I think they look fantastic and would love it if we (as a community) encouraged WotC to do more promos like this rather than complain about it. Maybe, just maybe, if we stop complaining about every cool thing they try to give us, we'll get more (and more accessible) cool stuff. If these were well-received and they occasionally did this color treatment on, say, tournament-specific promos, I think it'd be awesome.
Oh, without a doubt, it is awesome that these exist. This isn't a complaining thing (for me anyway.) It's more of a "Damn do I wish I was going to Comic Con because this is going to kick so much ass."
-True Blood
They look great. I like promos, a lot. Planeswalker promos especially, but this is a crazy kind of rare that I don't think is healthy.
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingYes, some people can travel to a comic book convention from around the world, and yes, it's larger than Seattle ComiCon, that's not the point. The point is that Wizards took one local (and yes, despite the fact that that SOME people come from out-of-town, it is local) event and gave them an exclusive promo, much in the same fashion that the dragon promo went to DragonCon. Something like FTV, judge promos, GP promos, etc, are all accessible from around the world (or at least around the country here in 'Murica), this is not.
This is an exclusive promo for people from SoCal and the fact is this is the first time I can think of, save for the DragonCon debacle, that Wizards has done something like this. It's a step in completely the wrong direction for them, and making sure Wizards is aware this is bad for the MTG community at large seems like an important first step in getting them to stop that kind of stuff.
And as for aesthetics, I think they're different than any card that wizards has ever printed, which makes them fairly awesome all on their own. I'm not sure which I like more, but I certainly would rather be sleeving these up than a foil foreign version of the same card. Wizards is hyping Chandra, so if we get a modern playable red walker with this alt art (where only a few thousand copies exist in the world), it's going to be very expensive, and very "cool"
You don't get it, I wouldn't care if they gave these ONLY to the winners of each GP (and only 50-100 copies of them existed in the world), i would have a chance at them. The issue is that this is a promo given to a specific group of people based on where they live and not even for a MTG event. This is VASTLY different that EVERY OTHER PROMO that has been printed
Even if I were in SoCal right now I would still be arguing this thread, it's wrong for Wizards to print cards for people based on where they live, it's the exact same logic that got Wizards into trouble with DragonCon and they should not have done it.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
It's not like people can't play competitive without these cards, they can just sleeve up some regular versions... I think the discussion in here shows that too many people in our community* act like brats that are used to getting everything they point on - if they don't get it they'll throw themselfs to the floor and start to cry.
* the community as general, but especially mtgs that have a group of people that just complain about everything all the time.
My Tribal cube
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My Artifact cube
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Who's eating crow?
and exactly how do these help the game survive? I don't see how this helps anything survive. I don't hear anyone saying "thank god for the jace book promo, or the last 5 years would have never happened" there is no reason that promo needs to be as expensive as it is, and no reason we need five more.
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
No offense, but what about this is actually good? We've already got piles of excessively rare cards. Printing off another few isn't really doing anything for the game.
And no one is acting like a brat. They're just sick of getting shafted because for anyone at the con this is just simple purchase. Everyone gets why judge foils and such are exclusive. But this is like doing an FTV release in one city and at MSRP. This is just exclusive because not everyone has the time or money to go to the convention.
If they start making them available at other conventions then sure, that's fine. But this is just silly.
I agree with your post largely, but this actually isn't true. Aside from the restrictive admission fee, the tickets sell out almost as soon as they're on sale, and then, assuming these are not just being handed out, you have to have the extra money to buy this along with or instead of anything else you want. Then, presumably, you'll have to wait in line or luck out to actually acquire it.
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
That's why I edited my post before you made yours ^^;
The rarity.
There's quite a few players (and obviously collectors) who crave and respect rare stuff. Complaining about it comes off as explicitly jealous/whinny, imo... especially being how often they do such a thing and you know there's always the original art for those who want the functional card.
demand may far, far outstrip supply... but that's the nature of promos and/or exclusive cards, it's really just the *sunglasses* nature of beast.
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh
sorry, had to.
if these cards were exclusive AND tournament legal, like, as in they weren't also being printed in a core set, that's a legit reason to be upset.
as is, just like any other promo, it demands a premium, and only players willing and able to spend that much money will be in possession of them.
again, no harm no foul.
If you want to play the game, you can still get the cards which will function the same.
If you want to collect these, then obviously you have to pay a collector's premium.
Exactly. Just because someone lives in southern california doesn't mean they can go to SDCC. Many of my friends and I were unable to acquire badges to the convention. Some of my friends were able to get badges so I'm hoping they'll be able to pick up a copy or two for me.
Now one thing to consider is that Hasbro's convention exclusives usually don't sell out and they'll be available on their online store the monday following the convention. But those are usually toys or action figures, which is completely different from Magic. There are some people that claim that there will be extras leftover, but I think that they're severely underestimating the magic community and how many investors, hoarders, and scalpers are out there.