This guy is just broken! Artful Dodge Rouge's Passage will just make this guy unbeatable. It's high mana cost is not to bad for a grixis or 4 color grixis deck (+white for wrath cards). I wonder if Jund can abuse this as well for standard competative? Decks facing massive Life gain just got a serious control feature.
No, it works. His ability triggers at the declare blockers step (see rulings on Ferrel's Zealot, Keeper of Tresserhorn, Orcish Squatters, etc). Kaalia's ability triggers at the declare attackers step, so he's good to go for the declare blockers step.
Nice job on the links, most would be too lazy :D. Are you absolutely positive here though? It seems like it might have an "if" clause as to whether or not it attacked. Similar to something like Test of Endurance that will not trigger if the requirement is not met, I feel like it might trigger at the blockers step, but retroactively check if it "attacked".
Can we get some more input here? Cause if it works then it's a shoe-in for my Kaalia deck cause it's just crazy. If it doesn't then it is lackluster at best.
This guy will be known to me as "He who shall be chumped."
I don't see this guy making much impact on standard. You cast him, he does nothing and he has to survive your opponents turn then he has to attack alone and not be blocked in order to reduce your opponents life to 1. So two turns after you cast him you might be able to win if they have no blockers.
1 power on a first strike deathtouch creature also means it can be double or triple blocked and be killed.
This guy will be known to me as "He who shall be chumped."
I don't see this guy making much impact on standard. You cast him, he does nothing and he has to survive your opponents turn then he has to attack alone and not be blocked in order to reduce your opponents life to 1. So two turns after you cast him you might be able to win if they have no blockers.
1 power on a first strike deathtouch creature also means it can be double or triple blocked and be killed.
You play him, next turn attack and Searing Spear for the win.
Or you give him haste with Lightning Mauler and just attack the turn you played him.
Too expensive for a card that assimilates anything that touches it and brings an opponent within an inch of their life?
Not quite everything. Boros Reckoner trades with him without too much trouble. And if he becomes popular I can see people putting things like Fog Bank into their sideboards as hate tech. Admittedly, keeping these specific cards alive to block the Master in a BR Control deck could be tricky...
I'd like to draw a comparison to desecration demon. Both are very strong, but both are chaff in a format filled to the brim with chump blockers. When things rotate, I might give him another chance.
For what it's worth, I really like his design and combat unbeat-ability.
No, it works. His ability triggers at the declare blockers step (see rulings on Ferrel's Zealot, Keeper of Tresserhorn, Orcish Squatters, etc). Kaalia's ability triggers at the declare attackers step, so he's good to go for the declare blockers step.
Nice job on the links, most would be too lazy :D. Are you absolutely positive here though? It seems like it might have an "if" clause as to whether or not it attacked. Similar to something like Test of Endurance that will not trigger if the requirement is not met, I feel like it might trigger at the blockers step, but retroactively check if it "attacked".
Can we get some more input here? Cause if it works then it's a shoe-in for my Kaalia deck cause it's just crazy. If it doesn't then it is lackluster at best.
No it won't trigger. When the rule says that it trigger at the end of blockers step, it means that the trigger will put on the stack at that time, but it will check previous information. the creature wasn't declare as an attacker.
Now this is what Kalia's rules say:
9/22/2011 The creature card is already tapped and attacking as it's put onto the battlefield. Any abilities that trigger when a creature becomes tapped or when a creature attacks won't trigger for that card.
No it won't trigger. When the rule says that it trigger at the end of blockers step, it means that the trigger will put on the stack at that time, but it will check previous information. the creature wasn't declare as an attacker.
Now this is what Kalia's rules say:
9/22/2011 The creature card is already tapped and attacking as it's put onto the battlefield. Any abilities that trigger when a creature becomes tapped or when a creature attacks won't trigger for that card.
This is incorrect, like guiltfeeder this guy only cares that he is in combat and attacking at the beginning of the declare blockers step and has not been blocked. It does not matter how he is put into combat he will trigger and reduce your opponents life to one.
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This is incorrect, like guiltfeeder this guy only cares that he is in combat and attacking at the beginning of the declare blockers step and has not been blocked. It does not matter how he is put into combat he will trigger and reduce your opponents life to one.
There's nothing that says that you can check one part of the clause and not the other. Ok.. Master is attacking, but wasn't declare as an attacker.
Kalia's rule says that won't trigger any "attacks" or "tapped" triggers of any creature she puts into the battlefield.
"9/22/2011 The creature card is already tapped and attacking as it's put onto the battlefield. Any abilities that trigger when a creature becomes tapped or when a creature attacks won't trigger for that card."
this is a rule. Why we have to just check is it wasn't blocked? and don't check the attack clause?
Same as with guiltfeeder it is not a traditional attacks trigger, just like the Eldrazi titans don't have traditional LTB.
The rules that apply to abilities that fire off a creature being declared as an attacker like Geist of Saint Traft do not apply to abilities of creatures that fire when they go unblocked.
Again regardless of how master of cruelties is in combat an not blocked it will fire off the ability.
Quote from comp rules »
509.4g An ability that reads “Whenever [this creature] attacks and isn’t blocked, . . .” triggers if no creatures are declared as blockers for that creature. It won’t trigger if the attacking creature is blocked and then all its blockers are removed from combat.
Note the above rule does not state it only triggers if the creature was declared as an attacker.
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All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Same as with guiltfeeder it is not a traditional attacks trigger, just like the Eldrazi titans don't have traditional LTB.
The rules that apply to abilities that fire off a creature being declared as an attacker like Geist of Saint Traft do not apply to abilities of creatures that fire when they go unblocked.
Again regardless of how master of cruelties is in combat an not blocked it will fire off the ability.
Note the above rule does not state it only triggers if the creature was declared as an attacker.
oh thanks! that was the rule I was looking for, but i didn't found it. Now this is clear! Kalia works
I made the same mistake when looking at that scenario. It seems that it just means "whenever this is not blocked while attacking" (unfortunately there's no term for "letting through a creature") "whenever this creature is allowed to pass"?
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If that's your "casual," what on earth is required for "formal," a butler in livery shuffling the decks whilst a pianist plays Brahms in front of a tapestry?
Ehhh... Probably a good thing since that would be pretty close to broken.
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He isn't able to attack since he can only attack alone.
Incorrect.
You can either choose to attack with him, or the rest of your creatures. whenever you have two contradictory statements like "all your creatures have to attack" and "this creature can't attack if any others do" you're allowed to choose whether the one creature attacks, or the rest of the creatures attack.
Also, as I mentioned in the other thread, Skullsnatcher can ninjutsu in in response to the trigger going off, meaning your opponent is at one life and there is a 2/1 rat ninja about to deal combat damage, which doesn't use the stack anymore. They either respond to the lifeloss trigger (presumably getting rid of the rat) or they die.
Not quite everything. Boros Reckoner trades with him without too much trouble. And if he becomes popular I can see people putting things like Fog Bank into their sideboards as hate tech. Admittedly, keeping these specific cards alive to block the Master in a BR Control deck could be tricky...
Boros Reckoner does not directly trade with him. Boros Reckoner dies to him with little to benefit. Boros Reckoner does 3 damage to this guy, and only if you activated First Strike, which is not enough to kill him. Master of Cruelties only does 1 damage to Boros Reckoner but automatically kills it anyway so your opponent only gets to redirect 1 damage to a source of their choice. If they direct it towards the Master of Cruelties then he dies. But honestly, that's not a bad trade for either party really. Boros Reckoner is very painful in creature combat and this guy takes care of that nicely without too much of a loss on your end.
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There are four cards in standard that can give him Intimidate. It'll drop to two when Innistrad falls off, but you can on-color evasive pretty easily.
I would bother to check in modern, but modern has so many crazy tricks to give Intimidate/Unblockable/Shroud/Haste it isn't worth checking.
Too expensive for a card that assimilates anything that touches it and brings an opponent within an inch of their life?
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Nice job on the links, most would be too lazy :D. Are you absolutely positive here though? It seems like it might have an "if" clause as to whether or not it attacked. Similar to something like Test of Endurance that will not trigger if the requirement is not met, I feel like it might trigger at the blockers step, but retroactively check if it "attacked".
Can we get some more input here? Cause if it works then it's a shoe-in for my Kaalia deck cause it's just crazy. If it doesn't then it is lackluster at best.
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I don't see this guy making much impact on standard. You cast him, he does nothing and he has to survive your opponents turn then he has to attack alone and not be blocked in order to reduce your opponents life to 1. So two turns after you cast him you might be able to win if they have no blockers.
1 power on a first strike deathtouch creature also means it can be double or triple blocked and be killed.
You play him, next turn attack and Searing Spear for the win.
Or you give him haste with Lightning Mauler and just attack the turn you played him.
Not quite everything. Boros Reckoner trades with him without too much trouble. And if he becomes popular I can see people putting things like Fog Bank into their sideboards as hate tech. Admittedly, keeping these specific cards alive to block the Master in a BR Control deck could be tricky...
For what it's worth, I really like his design and combat unbeat-ability.
No it won't trigger. When the rule says that it trigger at the end of blockers step, it means that the trigger will put on the stack at that time, but it will check previous information. the creature wasn't declare as an attacker.
Now this is what Kalia's rules say:
9/22/2011 The creature card is already tapped and attacking as it's put onto the battlefield. Any abilities that trigger when a creature becomes tapped or when a creature attacks won't trigger for that card.
This is incorrect, like guiltfeeder this guy only cares that he is in combat and attacking at the beginning of the declare blockers step and has not been blocked. It does not matter how he is put into combat he will trigger and reduce your opponents life to one.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
There's nothing that says that you can check one part of the clause and not the other. Ok.. Master is attacking, but wasn't declare as an attacker.
Kalia's rule says that won't trigger any "attacks" or "tapped" triggers of any creature she puts into the battlefield.
"9/22/2011 The creature card is already tapped and attacking as it's put onto the battlefield. Any abilities that trigger when a creature becomes tapped or when a creature attacks won't trigger for that card."
this is a rule. Why we have to just check is it wasn't blocked? and don't check the attack clause?
The rules that apply to abilities that fire off a creature being declared as an attacker like Geist of Saint Traft do not apply to abilities of creatures that fire when they go unblocked.
Again regardless of how master of cruelties is in combat an not blocked it will fire off the ability.
Note the above rule does not state it only triggers if the creature was declared as an attacker.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
oh thanks! that was the rule I was looking for, but i didn't found it. Now this is clear! Kalia works
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I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
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Mythic rares are fine.
Um, what? Constructed aside, I'm pretty sure you should almost always play this in limited...
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
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EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
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Incorrect.
You can either choose to attack with him, or the rest of your creatures. whenever you have two contradictory statements like "all your creatures have to attack" and "this creature can't attack if any others do" you're allowed to choose whether the one creature attacks, or the rest of the creatures attack.
Also, as I mentioned in the other thread, Skullsnatcher can ninjutsu in in response to the trigger going off, meaning your opponent is at one life and there is a 2/1 rat ninja about to deal combat damage, which doesn't use the stack anymore. They either respond to the lifeloss trigger (presumably getting rid of the rat) or they die.
Boros Reckoner does not directly trade with him. Boros Reckoner dies to him with little to benefit. Boros Reckoner does 3 damage to this guy, and only if you activated First Strike, which is not enough to kill him. Master of Cruelties only does 1 damage to Boros Reckoner but automatically kills it anyway so your opponent only gets to redirect 1 damage to a source of their choice. If they direct it towards the Master of Cruelties then he dies. But honestly, that's not a bad trade for either party really. Boros Reckoner is very painful in creature combat and this guy takes care of that nicely without too much of a loss on your end.
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