I have never heard of this before but thought I'd give it a try. I got my box today and am trying to account for the row shifting. I laid it out like in the video and it came out:
I'm guessing there is some pack insertion/deletion in the left column. But I don't really understand how that works. Does every thing else slide one spot? The video made it sound like it wouldn't. Instead just leave a blank pack, but I don't see how that would fix my box. Am I missing something?
Do I need to figure out this pack before making the layer shift.
Any help would be appreciated. I'd like to figure this out before cracking them to list for the mapping.
I just want to say that this is one of the most efficient and concerted efforts to work on a box map that I have seen. It's a little silly, but I think everyone involved deserves a pat on the back for moving this project along... SynthesisB, Vinzito, and CanadianGreenBeret in particular
Hi guys, just wanted to help out with the Gatecrash box mapper. I tried out the Innistrad mapper and it worked amazingly... only had to open up 10 packs and I got 2 shock lands and Liliana of the Veil! Thanks for developing it! BTW This box was MADE IN THE USA
Mythics are red and foils are green
Left Column:
Watery Grave - Foil: Zhur-Taa Swine
Biomass Mutation - Foil: Illness in the Ranks
Legion Loyalist
Master Biomancer
Lord of the Void
Crypt Ghast
Mind Grind
Ooze Flux
Simic Manipulator - Foil: Swamp
Rubblebelt Raiders
Breeding Pool
Wrecking Ogre
Middle Column:
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
Boros Reckoner
Undercity Plague
Merciless Eviction - Foil: Slaughterhorn
Frontline Medic
Alms Beast - Foil: High Priest of Penance
Assemble the Legion
Whispering Madness
Realmwright - Foil: Ghor Clan Rampage
Enter the Infinite
Blind Obedience
Spark Trooper - Foil: Balustrade Spy
I'm guessing there is some pack insertion/deletion in the left column. But I don't really understand how that works[...]
Hmm this quite an interesting box. Thanks for posting, in one of the cases someone posted similar thing happened to the right column. At first I thought it's all about missing packs, but I think it is not. All packs that should be in your box are there.
Here is my thought process:
Lets imagine an 'ideal' box order that you would expect based on the numbers you provided. We can speculate that's the initial pattern that sorting machine will do prior to packaging boosters in to cardboard.
Now we know that something happens to the left column but we don't know what and/ or some of the rows might be shifted, like it was reported in RTR and previous sets. I was staring at it and ask myself what happens first. Well it looks that row shift happens as a last step, at least I believe so.
So what happens to the left column? I think packs are rearranged vertically and it seems that they are rearranged in pairs. Now let's look at your 'ideal' box again and mark packs that I think were swapped:
Why do I think this is the case? Because when you look at your left column all the packs that are suppose to be there to make an 'ideal' pattern are present there. In upper half of the column there is no "3"s, but three "1", whereas in lower half there are two "3"s, but no single "1". So swapping from ideal order has to happen first what breaks the pattern. Then, both halves of the box are treated separately for row shifting like we saw it with other boxes.
Now that makes sense that they do it that way - they make sure that the amount of mythics per box on average will stay the same, but you won't be able to figure entirely the position of cards. But then again we are smarter than machines, right? You will have to accomodate for it prior to opening if you patern is screwed up a little.
There is also a possibility that more boosters are swapped in pairs within one column, but it will be the same number for the same number so we cannot track it. I wonder if this is also possible with the middle column, for sure I saw it for right one.
Good luck with opening your box and I hope I am right on this one. Also sorry for my English, I'm not native, but I hope you were able to follow my way of thinking.
Always happy to contribute now that Vinzito's code has taken the heavy lifting off my plate! Which BTW, any of you who don't want to buy the app... that's totally fine, you will note I have always supported homebrew and encouraged folks to figure this stuff out for themselves... but don't complain about him "charging money" for it. He created a tool that people find useful. Inevitably some folks who want to use that tool will be willing to exchange money for it. That's how it works. Props to Vinzito and best of luck to all of you in box mapping.
Contiguous case, made in the USA. Apologies for the shorthand, it's been a long weekend and I had a non-MTG person helping record.
Center
Gyre Sage
Boros Reckoner
Thespians Stage
Gruul Ragebeast
Frontline Medic
Gideon
Lazav
Foundry Champion
Five Alarm Fire
Biovisionary
Merciless Eviction
Godless Shrine
Right
Whispering Madness
Rubblebelt Raiders
Stolen Identity
Breeding Pool
Borborgymos
Immortal Servitude
High Priest of Penance
Ogre Slumlord
Diluvian Primordial
Firemane Avenger
Molten Primordial
Sepulchral Primordial
BOX 2
Left
Illusionist's Bracers
Lord of the Void
Nightveil Specter
Rubblehulk
Gyre Sage
Prime Speaker Zegana
Sylvan Primordial
Mind Grind
Realmwright
Wrecking Ogre
Luminate Primordial
Nightveil Specter
Thanks Pawel.
I saw that the column had the right numbers but wouldn't have thought of seemingly random swapping like that.
I made the swaps and will start opening. If those swaps aren't correct will that column be invalid or skew the data? Or will just posting the mid and right be helpful?
Left
Whispering Madness
Five Alarm Fire
Mind Grind
Diluvian Primordial
Angelic Skirmisher
Thespians Stage
Consuming Aberration
Unexpected Results
Stolen Identity
Sylvan Primordial
Clan Defiance
Kermit the Frog
Frontline Medic
Center
Lord of the Void
Ogre Slumlord
Legion Loyalist
Alms Beast
Biovisionary
Gyre Sage
Spark Trooper
Enter the Infinite
Domri Rade
Mystic Genesis
Boros Reckoner
Diluvian Primordial
Right
Gruul Ragebeast
Master Biomancer
Wrecking Ogre
Skarrg Goliath
Sepulchral Primordial
Assemble the Legion
Rubblebelt Raiders
Blind Obedience
Signal the Clans
Soul Ransom
Godless Shrine
Firemane Avenger
BOX 6
Left
Simic Manipulator
Wrecking Ogre
Duskmantle Seer
Glaring Spotlight
Rubblehulk
Merciless Eviction
Sylvan Primordial
Blind Obedience
Foundry Champion
Five Alarm Fire
Watery Grave
Giant Adephage
Center
Crypt Ghast
Nightveil Specter
Luminate Primordial
Realmwright
Treasury Thrull
Enter the Infinite
Borborgymos
Alms Beast
High Priest of Penance
Ogre Slumlord
Breeding Pool
Godless Shrine
Thanks Pawel.
I saw that the column had the right numbers but wouldn't have thought of seemingly random swapping like that.
I made the swaps and will start opening. If those swaps aren't correct will that column be invalid or skew the data? Or will just posting the mid and right be helpful?
Just keep the record of whatever the pattern you started opening with. As long we know the numbers we will be able to track it back.
All I know is that you will open all rares/ mythics like you suppose to, but there might be more randomness in the left column. All your middle and right column rares would end up according to the known patterns. If not I owe you a beer
EDIT:
Hmmm, it might be not totally random, pack swapping might occur always in pairs with the pack i+4 i.e. with 3 packs in between. And in that case it happens AFTER row shifting:
So it's possible that both of your packs with 1 are swapped too, as they are also separated by 3 other packs. But other than that it doesn't change the outcome.
My box was weird. i didn't map it but i had doubles of many rares.
enter the infinite, Boros Reckoner, foundry champion, Luminate Primordial all had doubles.
the mythics were the two enter the infinites, domri rade, and Duskmantle Seer. hope this info helps
Hey guys, I ended up having to work today, so finishing the tracks might have to wait until tomorrow. I’m going to respond to some posts.
@pawel_dom, Glad to be of service. Hopefully I will be finished with the tracks by then so you will be able to properly map them.
@Darth Veggie: I am solving these by hand with an excel sheet. I used the RTR sequence and the assumption that all the mythic rares were in track A to map a few boxes. If the barcode numbers were in order I assumed that row shifts had been handled and they were safe to match with the sequence. I then tossed them in tracks that I have slowly grown with more boxes. When mtggo posted the second sequence, it opened up a lot more boxes for deciphering. I usually pick out boxes that are convenient/easy. I haven’t gone through any without the bar codes or guilds provided because it basically takes too much time to do by eye. Thanks again for your contributions. I’ll watch the video later on. I’m hoping for another musical interlude.
I am currently working on the assumption that all the boxes come from the same source/manufacturing algorithm. As it stands, I’ve been able to map boxes regardless of nationality.]
@Vinzito: It’s taken some time, but it’s worth it. Do me a favor and double check my final track list against your program’s. I’ll sign off on them at that point.
@mtggo: There is definitely a third track, and possibly more. I’ll keep going through boxes until I can accurately map the majority of them. I’ll double check my lists against yours and update the front page accordingly. It’ll be interesting to see how the multiple sequences influence things. Ultimately, this will result in having to open more packs to figure out what sequence you’re on.
@hsieh: Kudos for knowing that dark orchid is a thing.
@Azhura: It is probably better for the coders to have the card’s number, but I personally need the card’s name to map them by hand. I color code the tracks and then check the sequence. If I put them in order by barcode number I don’t even bother to check the sequence anymore.
@oddmonk: I’m all for spreading the love. You help me by posting box data. I help you by compiling it and keeping info up to date. Everyone wins.
@BorosReckoner: I’m also planning on picking up Vinzito’s app once it hits the apple store. After all this mapping, I think I’ll let the computer do the rest of the work for me.
@Ross Edwards: Hey, Ross. Thanks for contributing, and furthermore for making Box Mapping a thing. If it wasn’t for your book and bringing mapping to the mainstream (if you can call the MTG community that) this thread probably wouldn’t exist. We owe quite a bit to you.
There has been talk of people wanting to come into this thread and post fake data because they disagree with what you do.
If a box so happens to defy the correlation between 50 others, it might be smart to remove that box from your research.
I'd also check users recent posts to see if they express hate towards the practice.
Will contribute if my pre-order ever ships.
This is unfortunate, but I don't think it will really affect much. I'm sitting here comparing my list to mtggo's as we speak, and I'm almost finished with the Tracks. I've seen a lot of boxes over the last few days, and unless they look spot on, I just discard them. I'm trying to stay away from the ethical aspects of Box Mapping. My job is to finish the map and distribute it to everyone. What someone chooses to do after that is up to his/her conscious.
Thanks for the warning, though. I was aware there was some ethics thread on this, but I can't seem to see it.
Yep. Looks like they might make posting of tracks/maps forbidden in the next rules update. We might have to gather elsewhere for DGM, unless WoTC just makes it unsolvable and saves us the trouble.
Yep. Looks like they might make posting of tracks/maps forbidden in the next rules update. We might have to gather elsewhere for DGM, unless WoTC just makes it unsolvable and saves us the trouble.
It was certainly never my intention to anger the mods/owners of the board. I would be willing to bet Wizards makes some major changes before the next set, regardless. It really wasn't until RTR was cracked that they changed their manufacturing algorithm. I have no doubt they are aware this thread exists and monitor it. This being said, it really only takes 20-30 boxes to get a good map. I am sure that larger companies like SCG have people dedicated to this and even come up with case maps for foil rare/mythic rares.
I post this information in hopes that it dissuades the common myth that boxes are no longer mappable. It is possible with enough data and a well designed computer program. When it comes time to dig in your wallet for packs, it's important to be wary of what you're buying. And if you're using this information in some way to cheat others, maybe it's time to take a long hard look at yourself. Is that extra $20-40 really worth taking advantage of someone else over? It's hard enough to play Magic in a society that still thinks of us as WoW players or some other kind of nerd. Do we really need to take advantage of our own kind?
Alright, I'll leave ethics for others to discuss. Makes me feel too much like a hippie. I'll finish the Tracks and wash my hands of this.
Hi guys. Here's my box. My box was made in the USA.
Left Column (Top to bottom):
Soul Ransom
High Priest of Penance*
Rubblebelt Raiders*
Consuming Aberration
Blind Obediance
Realmwright (Guildscorn Ward)
Glaring Spotlight
Angelic Skirmisher
Mirciless Eviction
Ogre Slumlord
Sacred Foundry
Uncdercity Plague
Middle Column (Top to bottom):
Stomping Ground (Swamp)
Biomass Mutation (Last Thoughts)
Stolen Identity (Mountain) Domri Rade (Signal the Clans)
Alms Beast
Frontline Medic
Signal the Clans
Fathom Mage
Godless Shrine Duskmantle Seer (Shambleshark)
Wrecking Ogre
Crypt Ghast
Right Column (Top to bottom):
Simic Manipulator
Mind Grind Enter the Infinite
Watery Grave
Skarrg Goliath
Boros Reckoner
Treasury Thrull
Legion Loyalist
Firemane Avenger
Immortal Servitude (Smog Elemental)
Whispering Madness Enter the Infinite (Syndicate Enforcer)
*These rares had more bolded than usual names and typelines. Might be a misprint or something.
There has been talk of people wanting to come into this thread and post fake data because they disagree with what you do.
If a box so happens to defy the correlation between 50 others, it might be smart to remove that box from your research.
I'd also check users recent posts to see if they express hate towards the practice.
Will contribute if my pre-order ever ships.
Man,
I've been thinking about posting, but hearing this makes me think twice.
Why? Because my box seems to be ALL effed up. It even looked easy, but trying to solve it as I went proved to be a fiasco. I wouldn't want you guys thinking I was one of the bad data posters, because if you DO end up having to go elsewhere, I don't want to be shunned.
But yeah, my box has proven to be an epic nightmare. The wife has been DYING to open it since we got it at the midnight release, and I managed to put her off, saying I wanted it to practice drafting with. After we got home from the midnight release, I managed to make her happy by opening the guildpacks we got (we collect stupid crap, and wanted the three guildpacks we hadn't gotten at prereleases.) The next day, she was distracted by cleaning the house all day, and then we went drafting that night. Again, she got tempted by all the new cards, and actually wanted to get another box. I managed to reason with her and got her to get a fat pack.
Finally, yesterday, she wouldn't relent. I showed her the video by Vinzito, and bargained with her. We'd open enough to solve the tracks, open what we wanted for constructed, and save the others for drafting practice, cause she needs practice for limited. BAD. So, we start opening, I think, based on wrapper patterns, I've got a single row shift, from row 7 to row 1 (Alternatively, I think 7 to 3 would have worked too, but I'm still trying to work things out. It was late.) I get to the point where I think I can at least predict a track...and no.
To cut this already long story short, I'm putting what we've opened into Excel, and trying to figure out where the pattern is messed up. Fortunately, we took good notes. I'm just hoping that during my whole "Hmmm, maybe we got the left/right backwards," or "Maybe the track runs backwards, let me try if it works that way" I didn't accidentally reverse something on my notes. My wife, who was happily sorting what I'd opened, kept asking me "Are you getting frustrated?" and I'd just say "No, this is a fun puzzle, and I'm GOING to solve it. Is it bugging you?" "Nope! I'm getting these all sorted!"
I have to say, the fact that this looks like it's going to be banned in the future is incredibly short-sighted. It's like they want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend it isn't happening. I never would have heard of box mapping if it wasn't posted here, and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen proof. I used to work retail at video game stores, and we used to laugh when guys would come in, and fondle the Magic/Pokemon/Yu-Gi-Oh packs, thinking they had a "foolproof" way of predicting foils. They'd weigh them, using only their hands, no scales. They'd do slight bends of the packs, they'd rub them all over...seriously, saying they fondled them is the only way to put it, and it was hilarious to watch. If I'd heard about box mapping without proof, I'd have put it at the same level of confirmation bias as that, or the anecdotes I hear from one of the guys at the LGS, who SWEARS that fat packs have better rares/more mythics, etc. The practice of box mapping will obviously continue, and with less publicity, and transparency, it's going to be easier for people to get screwed.
does anyone do mappings of the uncommons/commons as well? That could have very useful applications to online pack generators and sealed/draft simulators
Hey guys. Sorry to disrupt your thread, but there is a conversation about box mapping going on in CI right now that I thought some of you might find important. Some of you may be aware of it already, to you I apologize again for disrupting your thread.
Apparently there is a possibility that box mapping may not be allowed on MTGS sometime in the future mainly because mapping could potentially be used to scam people. I'm sure that your opinions on the subject would be valuable to the discussion, whatever they may be. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9731340#post9731340
I can't seem to access this thread. I'm not sure why. In any case, if you can access it, go there and post your opinion. If they're considering banning the practice, I can only imagine it's a bit one sided. It is without a doubt that some people use the maps for less than ethical means. However, there are several individuals who practice box mapping as enthusiests, box opening rituals, or just as a hobby within a hobby. It would be a shame to not be able to discuss this topic because of what someone might do with the information, especially when there are individuals creating private maps without or knowledge every day.
If the owners/mods of the board think it should be against the rules, it's their right to do so. Until then, let's at least try to get some representation and civil discussion on the topic. If you are posting here, post in the other thread. Let's at least demonstrate that this isn't a one sided ethical issue.
right
middle
left
1|2|3|4|5|2|2|3|4|5|1|3
3|4|5|1|2|4|4|5|1|2|3|5
4|1|1|2|5|1|2|3|3|4|5|2
If I shift layer 1 to 5 and layer 7 to 11 then the right and middle columns look good but not the left. I'd have
2|3|4|5|1|2|3|4|5|1|2|3
4|5|1|2|3|4|5|1|2|3|4|5
1|1|2|4|5|1|3|3|4|5|2|2
I'm guessing there is some pack insertion/deletion in the left column. But I don't really understand how that works. Does every thing else slide one spot? The video made it sound like it wouldn't. Instead just leave a blank pack, but I don't see how that would fix my box. Am I missing something?
Do I need to figure out this pack before making the layer shift.
Any help would be appreciated. I'd like to figure this out before cracking them to list for the mapping.
U.S. Box if that matters
Draft my cube on cube tutor--------> here
Can't way to pay my hard earned $3.99 once this is done
I'll be getting the AR and RTR apps tomorrow
Mythics are red and foils are green
Left Column:
Watery Grave - Foil: Zhur-Taa Swine
Biomass Mutation - Foil: Illness in the Ranks
Legion Loyalist
Master Biomancer
Lord of the Void
Crypt Ghast
Mind Grind
Ooze Flux
Simic Manipulator - Foil: Swamp
Rubblebelt Raiders
Breeding Pool
Wrecking Ogre
Middle Column:
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
Boros Reckoner
Undercity Plague
Merciless Eviction - Foil: Slaughterhorn
Frontline Medic
Alms Beast - Foil: High Priest of Penance
Assemble the Legion
Whispering Madness
Realmwright - Foil: Ghor Clan Rampage
Enter the Infinite
Blind Obedience
Spark Trooper - Foil: Balustrade Spy
Right Column:
Blind Obedience
Spark Trooper
Hellkite Tyrant
Firemane Avenger
Sacred Foundry
Clan Defiance
Mystic Genesis
Illusionist's Bracers - Foil: Massive Raid
Rubblehulk
Biovisionary
Molten Primordial
Domri Rade
Hmm this quite an interesting box. Thanks for posting, in one of the cases someone posted similar thing happened to the right column. At first I thought it's all about missing packs, but I think it is not. All packs that should be in your box are there.
Here is my thought process:
Lets imagine an 'ideal' box order that you would expect based on the numbers you provided. We can speculate that's the initial pattern that sorting machine will do prior to packaging boosters in to cardboard.
2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3
4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2
Now we know that something happens to the left column but we don't know what and/ or some of the rows might be shifted, like it was reported in RTR and previous sets. I was staring at it and ask myself what happens first. Well it looks that row shift happens as a last step, at least I believe so.
So what happens to the left column? I think packs are rearranged vertically and it seems that they are rearranged in pairs. Now let's look at your 'ideal' box again and mark packs that I think were swapped:
2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3
4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2
Now let's rearrange to see how it's swapped and mark rows for shifting (in red):
2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3
4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5
1 1 2 5 4 1 3 3 4 5 2 2
As a result we have:
1 2 3 4 5 2 2 3 4 5 1 3
3 4 5 1 2 4 4 5 1 2 3 5
4 1 1 2 5 1 2 3 3 4 5 2
Which is exactly your box:
1 2 3 4 5 2 2 3 4 5 1 3
3 4 5 1 2 4 4 5 1 2 3 5
4 1 1 2 5 1 2 3 3 4 5 2
Why do I think this is the case? Because when you look at your left column all the packs that are suppose to be there to make an 'ideal' pattern are present there. In upper half of the column there is no "3"s, but three "1", whereas in lower half there are two "3"s, but no single "1". So swapping from ideal order has to happen first what breaks the pattern. Then, both halves of the box are treated separately for row shifting like we saw it with other boxes.
Now that makes sense that they do it that way - they make sure that the amount of mythics per box on average will stay the same, but you won't be able to figure entirely the position of cards. But then again we are smarter than machines, right? You will have to accomodate for it prior to opening if you patern is screwed up a little.
There is also a possibility that more boosters are swapped in pairs within one column, but it will be the same number for the same number so we cannot track it. I wonder if this is also possible with the middle column, for sure I saw it for right one.
Good luck with opening your box and I hope I am right on this one. Also sorry for my English, I'm not native, but I hope you were able to follow my way of thinking.
Contiguous case, made in the USA. Apologies for the shorthand, it's been a long weekend and I had a non-MTG person helping record.
BOX 1
Left
Watery Grave
Molten Primordial
Luminate Primordial
Skarrg Goliath
Treasury Thrull
Obzedat
Mystic Genesis
Mind Grind
Crypt Ghast
Clan Defiance
Ooze Flux
Stomping Ground
Center
Gyre Sage
Boros Reckoner
Thespians Stage
Gruul Ragebeast
Frontline Medic
Gideon
Lazav
Foundry Champion
Five Alarm Fire
Biovisionary
Merciless Eviction
Godless Shrine
Right
Whispering Madness
Rubblebelt Raiders
Stolen Identity
Breeding Pool
Borborgymos
Immortal Servitude
High Priest of Penance
Ogre Slumlord
Diluvian Primordial
Firemane Avenger
Molten Primordial
Sepulchral Primordial
BOX 2
Left
Illusionist's Bracers
Lord of the Void
Nightveil Specter
Rubblehulk
Gyre Sage
Prime Speaker Zegana
Sylvan Primordial
Mind Grind
Realmwright
Wrecking Ogre
Luminate Primordial
Nightveil Specter
Center
Assemble the Legion
Undercity Plague
Biomass Mutation
Sacred Foundry
Legion Loyalist
Skarrg Goliath
Foundry Champion
Thespians Stage
Immortal Servitude
Aurelia's Fury
Consuming Aberration
Gruul Ragebeast
Right
Angelic Skirmisher
Treasury Thrull
Soul Ransom
Gideon
Diluvian Primordial
Clan Defiance
High Priest of Penance
Breeding Pool
Fathom Mage
Glaring Spotlight
Boros Reckoner
Mystic Genesis
BOX 3
Left
Firemane Avenger
Signal the Clans
Five Alarm Fire
Aurelia, Warleader
Duskmantle Seer
Luminate Primordial
Undercity Plague
Immortal Servitude
Mystic Genesis
Biovisionary
Glaring Spotlight
Blind Obedience
Center
Ooze Flux
Ogre Slumlord
Biomass Mutation
Soul Ransom
Assemble the Legion
Rubblebelt Raiders
Frontline Medic
Illusionist's Bracers
Stolen Identity
Prime Speaker Zegana
Signal the Clans
Right
Unexpected Results
Godless Shrine
Deathpact Angel
Rubblehulk
Merciless Eviction
Sacred Foundry
Sepulchral Primordial
Simic Manipulator
Skarrg Goliath
Ooze Flux
Angelic Skirmisher
Domri Rade
continued...
I saw that the column had the right numbers but wouldn't have thought of seemingly random swapping like that.
I made the swaps and will start opening. If those swaps aren't correct will that column be invalid or skew the data? Or will just posting the mid and right be helpful?
Draft my cube on cube tutor--------> here
BOX 4
Left
Whispering Madness
High Priest of Penance
Wrecking Ogre
Unexpected Results
Soul Ransom
Angelic Skirmisher
Undercity Plague
Stomping Ground
Simic Manipulator
Blind Obedience
Spark Trooper
Foundry Champion
Center
Alms Beast
Boros Reckoner
Firemane Avenger
Sacred Foundry
Crypt Ghast
Realmwright
Merciless Eviction
Consuming Aberration
Lazav
Molten Primordial
Treasury Thrull
Signal the Clans
Right
Biomass Mutation
Giant Adephage
Legion Loyalist
Rubblebelt Raiders
Watery Grave
Stolen Identity
Hellkite Tyrant
Aurelia, Warleader
Assemble the Legion
Immortal Servitude
Frontline Medic
Fathom Mage
BOX 5
Left
Whispering Madness
Five Alarm Fire
Mind Grind
Diluvian Primordial
Angelic Skirmisher
Thespians Stage
Consuming Aberration
Unexpected Results
Stolen Identity
Sylvan Primordial
Clan Defiance
Kermit the Frog
Frontline Medic
Center
Lord of the Void
Ogre Slumlord
Legion Loyalist
Alms Beast
Biovisionary
Gyre Sage
Spark Trooper
Enter the Infinite
Domri Rade
Mystic Genesis
Boros Reckoner
Diluvian Primordial
Right
Gruul Ragebeast
Master Biomancer
Wrecking Ogre
Skarrg Goliath
Sepulchral Primordial
Assemble the Legion
Rubblebelt Raiders
Blind Obedience
Signal the Clans
Soul Ransom
Godless Shrine
Firemane Avenger
BOX 6
Left
Simic Manipulator
Wrecking Ogre
Duskmantle Seer
Glaring Spotlight
Rubblehulk
Merciless Eviction
Sylvan Primordial
Blind Obedience
Foundry Champion
Five Alarm Fire
Watery Grave
Giant Adephage
Center
Crypt Ghast
Nightveil Specter
Luminate Primordial
Realmwright
Treasury Thrull
Enter the Infinite
Borborgymos
Alms Beast
High Priest of Penance
Ogre Slumlord
Breeding Pool
Godless Shrine
Right
Thespians Stage
Watery Grave
Gruul Ragebeast
Stomping Ground
Gyre Sage
Whispering Madness
Spark Trooper
Illusionist's Bracers
Fathom Mage
Mind Grind
Aurelia's Fury
Spark Trooper
Peace out, folks
Just keep the record of whatever the pattern you started opening with. As long we know the numbers we will be able to track it back.
All I know is that you will open all rares/ mythics like you suppose to, but there might be more randomness in the left column. All your middle and right column rares would end up according to the known patterns. If not I owe you a beer
EDIT:
Hmmm, it might be not totally random, pack swapping might occur always in pairs with the pack i+4 i.e. with 3 packs in between. And in that case it happens AFTER row shifting:
1 2 3 4 5 2 2 3 4 5 1 3
3 4 5 1 2 4 4 5 1 2 3 5
4 1 1 2 5 1 2 3 3 4 5 2
.------->
...------->
......------->
.........------->
So it's possible that both of your packs with 1 are swapped too, as they are also separated by 3 other packs. But other than that it doesn't change the outcome.
Left Column:
(4) Lazavm Dimir Mastermind - (Incursion Specialist)
(3) Rubblebelt Raiders
(1) Watery Grave
(2) Lord of the Void
(5) Boros Reckoner
(3) Angelic Skirmisher - (Plains)
(2) Wrecking Ogre
(1) Immortal Servitude
(4) Frontline Medic
(5) Prime Speaker Zegana
(3) XXX
(1) XXX
Middle Column:
(3) Godless Shrine
(2) Biovisionary - (Scab-Clan Charger)
(5) Gyre Sage
(1) Blind Obedience
(4) Realmwright
(2) Stolen Identity
(1) Gideon, Champion of Justice - (Contamined Ground)
(5) Mystic Genesis
(3) Soul Ransom
(4) Undercity Plague - (Dying Wish)
(2) XXX
(5) XXX
Right Column:
(2) Alms Beast
(1) Obzedat, Ghost Council
(4) Mind Grind
(5) Unexpected Results - (Foundry Street Denizen)
(3) Sylvan Primordial
(1) Firemane Avenger
(5) Treasury Thrull
(4) Diluvian Primordial
(2) Nightveil Specter
(3) Signal the Clans
(1) XXX
(4) XXX
enter the infinite, Boros Reckoner, foundry champion, Luminate Primordial all had doubles.
the mythics were the two enter the infinites, domri rade, and Duskmantle Seer. hope this info helps
@pawel_dom, Glad to be of service. Hopefully I will be finished with the tracks by then so you will be able to properly map them.
@Darth Veggie: I am solving these by hand with an excel sheet. I used the RTR sequence and the assumption that all the mythic rares were in track A to map a few boxes. If the barcode numbers were in order I assumed that row shifts had been handled and they were safe to match with the sequence. I then tossed them in tracks that I have slowly grown with more boxes. When mtggo posted the second sequence, it opened up a lot more boxes for deciphering. I usually pick out boxes that are convenient/easy. I haven’t gone through any without the bar codes or guilds provided because it basically takes too much time to do by eye. Thanks again for your contributions. I’ll watch the video later on. I’m hoping for another musical interlude.
I am currently working on the assumption that all the boxes come from the same source/manufacturing algorithm. As it stands, I’ve been able to map boxes regardless of nationality.]
@Vinzito: It’s taken some time, but it’s worth it. Do me a favor and double check my final track list against your program’s. I’ll sign off on them at that point.
@mtggo: There is definitely a third track, and possibly more. I’ll keep going through boxes until I can accurately map the majority of them. I’ll double check my lists against yours and update the front page accordingly. It’ll be interesting to see how the multiple sequences influence things. Ultimately, this will result in having to open more packs to figure out what sequence you’re on.
@hsieh: Kudos for knowing that dark orchid is a thing.
@Azhura: It is probably better for the coders to have the card’s number, but I personally need the card’s name to map them by hand. I color code the tracks and then check the sequence. If I put them in order by barcode number I don’t even bother to check the sequence anymore.
@oddmonk: I’m all for spreading the love. You help me by posting box data. I help you by compiling it and keeping info up to date. Everyone wins.
@BorosReckoner: I’m also planning on picking up Vinzito’s app once it hits the apple store. After all this mapping, I think I’ll let the computer do the rest of the work for me.
@Ross Edwards: Hey, Ross. Thanks for contributing, and furthermore for making Box Mapping a thing. If it wasn’t for your book and bringing mapping to the mainstream (if you can call the MTG community that) this thread probably wouldn’t exist. We owe quite a bit to you.
There has been talk of people wanting to come into this thread and post fake data because they disagree with what you do.
If a box so happens to defy the correlation between 50 others, it might be smart to remove that box from your research.
I'd also check users recent posts to see if they express hate towards the practice.
Will contribute if my pre-order ever ships.
This is unfortunate, but I don't think it will really affect much. I'm sitting here comparing my list to mtggo's as we speak, and I'm almost finished with the Tracks. I've seen a lot of boxes over the last few days, and unless they look spot on, I just discard them. I'm trying to stay away from the ethical aspects of Box Mapping. My job is to finish the map and distribute it to everyone. What someone chooses to do after that is up to his/her conscious.
Thanks for the warning, though. I was aware there was some ethics thread on this, but I can't seem to see it.
It was certainly never my intention to anger the mods/owners of the board. I would be willing to bet Wizards makes some major changes before the next set, regardless. It really wasn't until RTR was cracked that they changed their manufacturing algorithm. I have no doubt they are aware this thread exists and monitor it. This being said, it really only takes 20-30 boxes to get a good map. I am sure that larger companies like SCG have people dedicated to this and even come up with case maps for foil rare/mythic rares.
I post this information in hopes that it dissuades the common myth that boxes are no longer mappable. It is possible with enough data and a well designed computer program. When it comes time to dig in your wallet for packs, it's important to be wary of what you're buying. And if you're using this information in some way to cheat others, maybe it's time to take a long hard look at yourself. Is that extra $20-40 really worth taking advantage of someone else over? It's hard enough to play Magic in a society that still thinks of us as WoW players or some other kind of nerd. Do we really need to take advantage of our own kind?
Alright, I'll leave ethics for others to discuss. Makes me feel too much like a hippie. I'll finish the Tracks and wash my hands of this.
Left
Mind Grind
Sacred Foundry
Thespian's Stage
Biomass Mutation
Illusionist's Bracers
Obzedat, Ghost Council
Whispering Madness
Gideon, Champion of Justice
Watery Grave
Angelic Skirmisher
Merciless Eviction
Stolen Identity
Center
Unexpected Results
Aurelia's Fury
Molten Primordial
Frontline Medic
Breeding Pool
Prime Speaker Zegana
Giant Adephage
Nightveil Specter
Simic Manipulator
High Priest of Penance
Firemane Avenger
Boros Reckoner
Right
Stomping Ground
Mystic Genesis
Duskmantle Seer
Gyre Sage
Luminate Primordial
Spark Trooper
Legion Loyalist
Glaring Spotlight
Blind Obedience
Domri Rade
Assemble the Legion
Realmwright
Left Column (Top to bottom):
Soul Ransom
High Priest of Penance*
Rubblebelt Raiders*
Consuming Aberration
Blind Obediance
Realmwright (Guildscorn Ward)
Glaring Spotlight
Angelic Skirmisher
Mirciless Eviction
Ogre Slumlord
Sacred Foundry
Uncdercity Plague
Middle Column (Top to bottom):
Stomping Ground (Swamp)
Biomass Mutation (Last Thoughts)
Stolen Identity (Mountain)
Domri Rade (Signal the Clans)
Alms Beast
Frontline Medic
Signal the Clans
Fathom Mage
Godless Shrine
Duskmantle Seer (Shambleshark)
Wrecking Ogre
Crypt Ghast
Right Column (Top to bottom):
Simic Manipulator
Mind Grind
Enter the Infinite
Watery Grave
Skarrg Goliath
Boros Reckoner
Treasury Thrull
Legion Loyalist
Firemane Avenger
Immortal Servitude (Smog Elemental)
Whispering Madness
Enter the Infinite (Syndicate Enforcer)
*These rares had more bolded than usual names and typelines. Might be a misprint or something.
Left
1 Deluvian Primordial
2 Gyre Sage
3 Thespian Stage
4 Skarred Goliath (Island)
5 Boros Reckoner
1 Fathom Mage
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council (Ivy Lane Denizen)
3 Ogre Slumlord
4 Ooze Flux
5 Nightveil Spectre
1 Five Alarm Fire
4 Assemble the Legion (Purge the Profane)
Center
4 Stomping Ground
5 Clan Defiance (Dmir Guildgate)
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Immortal Servitude (Molten Primordial)
3 Merciless Eviction
4 Illusionist's Bracers
5 High Priest of Penance
1 Gruul Ragebeast
2 Deathpact Angel
3 Sylvan Primordial (Smite)
4 Hellkite Tyrant (Mark for Death)
5 Borborygmos Enraged
Right
2 Angelic Skirmisher
3 Giant Adephage
4 Legion Loyalist
5 Master Biomancer
1 Glaring Spotlight (Act of Treason)
2 Luminate Primordial
3 Realmwright
4 Consuming Abberation
5 Foundry Champion
1 Breeding Pool
2 Signal the Clans
3 Firemane Avenger
This box was great.
Left Column:
(4) Gruul Ragebeast
(3) Glaring Spotlight
(5) Wrecking Ogre (Orzhov Guildgate)
(1) Frontline Medic
(1) Sylvan Primordial (Gideon, Champion of Justice)
(4) Gyre Sage
(1) Undercity Plague
(2) Five-Alarm Fire
(5) Soul Ransom (Boros Keyrune)
(3) Illusionist's Bracers
(4) Duskmantle Seer (Wojek Halberdiers)
(2) Luminate Primordial
Center Column:
(3) Aurelia's Fury
(2) Skaarg Goliath (Towering Thunderfist)
(2) Consuming Aberration
(4) Realmwright
(5) Foundry Champion
(3) Signal the Clans (Ember Beast)
(5) Aurelia, the Warleader
(1) Deathpact Angel
(4) Firemane Avenger
(2) Rubblebelt Raiders
(3) Sacred Foundry
(1) Ogre Slumlord
Right Column:
(2) Boros Reckoner
(1) Mystic Genesis
(3) Ooze Flux
(5) High Priest of Penance (Frenzied Tilling)
(4) Stomping Ground
(2) Godless Shrine
(4) Assemble the Legion
(5) Nightveil Specter
(3) Merciless Eviction
(1) Rubblehulk (Horror of the Dim)
(2) Fathom Mage (Borborygmos Enraged)
(5) Immortal Servitude
Man,
I've been thinking about posting, but hearing this makes me think twice.
Why? Because my box seems to be ALL effed up. It even looked easy, but trying to solve it as I went proved to be a fiasco. I wouldn't want you guys thinking I was one of the bad data posters, because if you DO end up having to go elsewhere, I don't want to be shunned.
But yeah, my box has proven to be an epic nightmare. The wife has been DYING to open it since we got it at the midnight release, and I managed to put her off, saying I wanted it to practice drafting with. After we got home from the midnight release, I managed to make her happy by opening the guildpacks we got (we collect stupid crap, and wanted the three guildpacks we hadn't gotten at prereleases.) The next day, she was distracted by cleaning the house all day, and then we went drafting that night. Again, she got tempted by all the new cards, and actually wanted to get another box. I managed to reason with her and got her to get a fat pack.
Finally, yesterday, she wouldn't relent. I showed her the video by Vinzito, and bargained with her. We'd open enough to solve the tracks, open what we wanted for constructed, and save the others for drafting practice, cause she needs practice for limited. BAD. So, we start opening, I think, based on wrapper patterns, I've got a single row shift, from row 7 to row 1 (Alternatively, I think 7 to 3 would have worked too, but I'm still trying to work things out. It was late.) I get to the point where I think I can at least predict a track...and no.
To cut this already long story short, I'm putting what we've opened into Excel, and trying to figure out where the pattern is messed up. Fortunately, we took good notes. I'm just hoping that during my whole "Hmmm, maybe we got the left/right backwards," or "Maybe the track runs backwards, let me try if it works that way" I didn't accidentally reverse something on my notes. My wife, who was happily sorting what I'd opened, kept asking me "Are you getting frustrated?" and I'd just say "No, this is a fun puzzle, and I'm GOING to solve it. Is it bugging you?" "Nope! I'm getting these all sorted!"
I have to say, the fact that this looks like it's going to be banned in the future is incredibly short-sighted. It's like they want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend it isn't happening. I never would have heard of box mapping if it wasn't posted here, and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen proof. I used to work retail at video game stores, and we used to laugh when guys would come in, and fondle the Magic/Pokemon/Yu-Gi-Oh packs, thinking they had a "foolproof" way of predicting foils. They'd weigh them, using only their hands, no scales. They'd do slight bends of the packs, they'd rub them all over...seriously, saying they fondled them is the only way to put it, and it was hilarious to watch. If I'd heard about box mapping without proof, I'd have put it at the same level of confirmation bias as that, or the anecdotes I hear from one of the guys at the LGS, who SWEARS that fat packs have better rares/more mythics, etc. The practice of box mapping will obviously continue, and with less publicity, and transparency, it's going to be easier for people to get screwed.
Left
1 Stolen Identity
2 Molten Primordial
3 Unexpected Results
4 Five Alarm Fire
5 Sacred Foundry (Mountain)
1 Treasury Thrull
2 Ooze Flux
3 Glaring Spotlight
4 Fronline Medic
5 Undercity Plague (Knight of Obligation)
1 Consuming Aberration
2 Boros Reckoner
Middle
4 Mind Grind
5 Wrecking Ogre
1 Immortal Servitude
2 Godless Shrine
3 Biomass Mutation
4 Clan Defiance
5 Master Biomancer
1 Legion Loyalist (Greenside Watcher)
2 Treasury Thrull
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council (Domri Rade)
4 Skarrg Goliath
5 Merciless Eviction
Right
2 Firemane Avenger
3 Watery Grave
4 Aurelia's Fury (Furious Resistance)
5 Sepulchral Primordial (Skarrg Guildmage)
1 Nightveil Specter
2 Giant Adephage
3 Diluvian Primordial
4 Stomping Ground
5 High Priest of Penance
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Fathom Mage (Predator Rapport)
3 Rubblehulk
Draft my cube on cube tutor--------> here
I can't seem to access this thread. I'm not sure why. In any case, if you can access it, go there and post your opinion. If they're considering banning the practice, I can only imagine it's a bit one sided. It is without a doubt that some people use the maps for less than ethical means. However, there are several individuals who practice box mapping as enthusiests, box opening rituals, or just as a hobby within a hobby. It would be a shame to not be able to discuss this topic because of what someone might do with the information, especially when there are individuals creating private maps without or knowledge every day.
If the owners/mods of the board think it should be against the rules, it's their right to do so. Until then, let's at least try to get some representation and civil discussion on the topic. If you are posting here, post in the other thread. Let's at least demonstrate that this isn't a one sided ethical issue.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9731340#post9731340
i'm buying a box soon. i will open all the packs but still i want the map to be finished. like the above have said, a hobby within a hobby.
btw, i have a NPH box in hand but the map has not been finished? is anyone doing it?