@Klooher, yes it's possible to scam people. Most of us don't do that. If we were, it'd be pretty poor business to tell people what we were doing and how to do it themselves. We do it because it's a fun puzzle, that allows us to explore another aspect of the game we all love. And, although it's by no means the main intent, we raise awareness of mapping. These threads popping up as people post info attract others attention and get them to learn about it. I can't tell you how many people come into each season's set and ask "does this actually work?" It's probably half the posts in any given thread. If we can show them that "this is surprisingly easy to do" (once the map's solved) or "hey, it's a really bad idea to buy loose packs online," then that's a plus for the magic community as a whole.
I've mapped a box of RTR. It's possible; it's fun; most of all, it's great to hand people packs and say "hey, enjoy the _________" then watch them react to opening it. It's a wonderful way for people to learn about mapping and see it in action. I can tell you for certain they'll all check twice before buying loose packs!
Re-reading this, it sounds a little mean. I'm sorry about that. I'm not always the best with words/making them come off precisely the way I want. Just wanted to try and explain my (and I believe others) motivation for what we do here.
For anyone posting box information, it will greatly help everyone working on the map if you could post which sleeve each rare came from.
With this information we should be able to complete the map extremely quickly.
For example, you could mark each card with the first initial of the guild that the sleeve belongs to, (G.D.S.O.B. for the Gruul, Dimir, Simic, Orzhov or Boros guild sleeve.)
Or you can use anything to represent each sleeve (numbers if you want) as long as it is consistent through that particular box.
For this (sleeves), I'd recommend using the last number of the sleeve ID. If you look at the back of a pack, with the barcode on the upper right, there's a number on the bottom left corner. The 5 sleeve designs are the last digit of this number. For instance: A pack of RTR with NivMizzit on the front is #15048886000003 EN. Golgari Guildmage ends in 4 instead of 3, etc. This should allow fairly consistant numbering for everyone. I don't have anything from GTC (forgot to keep the sleeves) so I can't tell you what the are currently.
since I played Magic some years ago, I just wanted to get back into some competetive play and I read this box mapping threads attentively.
I would be grateful if you can answer me two little questions:
1. Is it possible to do this mapping on cases or displays manufactured in belgium? cause I don't want to pay ~30$ shipping fees for every single display overtime. So in addition is it useful to buy this book from ross in case you're living in europe? I don't really have the time to figure it out myself
Probably I will post some "belgium" box content on friday when I get them if it helps but I also read that these apps from Vinz are only working for us-made boxes...
Sad story I would buy all 4 otherwise
2. Once I get into the whole technique of mapping, am I able to create new maps for new editions? Maybe I can help you to improve programs because i studied some parts of operations research and it seems like these boxes follow certain patterns...
Thanks
& kind regards
As far as I know, Wizards isn't/stopped doing a Belgium printing. Check your boxes to be sure but throughout RTR we never saw a Belgium printed box. Or, the boxes were printed there but use the USA mapping. Traditionally, the Belgium maps were a lot easier to break, which may have inspired this change.
For anyone posting box information, it will greatly help everyone working on the map if you could post which sleeve each rare came from.
With this information we should be able to complete the map extremely quickly.
For example, you could mark each card with the first initial of the guild that the sleeve belongs to, (G.D.S.O.B. for the Gruul, Dimir, Simic, Orzhov or Boros guild sleeve.)
Or you can use anything to represent each sleeve (numbers if you want) as long as it is consistent through that particular box.
Good job finding this pattern, Vinzito. This is actually an amazing breakthrough. Sorry to hear that your box turned out so poorly. I also want to point out, check the pack order after you shift the cards to provide examples of the missing packs. As you were shifting cards, I am pretty sure you put two packs in the wrong places.
I updated the original post with your video and instructions requesting posters include the guild or barcode number representing the guild. Once I have my box, I'll find out the barcode numbers for each guild, and list those instead.
Have you considered incorporating Qwerty's information on foil placement?
Do these box mapping techniques work with foreign language boxes? I have a friend getting a korean box and am wondering if providing the pack information will be useful or not to solving the map.
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Currently Playing
Standard: Esper Control | UWR Flash --- Modern: Melira Pod | Splinter Twin
I know I could contribute heavily for the app since I will be opening a case of GTC and I can try to get all the details for this.
Been reading the info about this, but am still wanting to know how you can tell if a certain card is in a specific track or not.
Without a map, you have to guess which rares are in each track. Since we're assuming the order of the tracks is the same, we can make some educated guesses, which I describe a bit in the original post. Brute forcing it would take a long time, that's why I'm glad people are using statistics and computer programming to figure out which cards are associated with others. I have considered seeing if I could perform some factor analysis myself, but it would take a bit of research.
For the time being, I would say open your boxes and contribute the data. It will probably be quite some time before the map is finished. However, the more boxes (and especially cases) we get, the faster we'll have the map.
Without a map, you have to guess which rares are in each track. Since we're assuming the order of the tracks is the same, we can make some educated guesses, which I describe a bit in the original post. Brute forcing it would take a long time, that's why I'm glad people are using statistics and computer programming to figure out which cards are associated with others. I have considered seeing if I could perform some factor analysis myself, but it would take a bit of research.
For the time being, I would say open your boxes and contribute the data. It will probably be quite some time before the map is finished. However, the more boxes (and especially cases) we get, the faster we'll have the map.
I will help and contribute the data then for everyone so the map can be helpful here.
As I said before, I just want to understand which cards are in specific tracks. Once I can learn that, then this will help out a bunch
Excellent work, CanadianGreenBeret. This should move things along quickly. I'm going to attach it to the original post for easier access to mappers. Hopefully Vinzito will find it.
Excellent work, CanadianGreenBeret. This should move things along quickly. I'm going to attach it to the original post for easier access to mappers. Hopefully Vinzito will find it.
I hope he can work this soon so I can perhaps just open my mythics/shocks and have spares to draft with friends. My FNM is already a draft so I can quickly build up a collection of worthless rares I don't want to have so many of
Sheet 3 has 27 boxes for you. One pack had a paper divider in it, and one box (column U) may have had its columns rearranged.
OMG this is amazing this should help A LOT!! I would be posting my 2 boxes, but unfortunately i accidentally left my notebook at my comic shop. Anywho thanks.
I'm getting a box tomorrow is it worth mapping and listing here, or is 1 box too small a quantity to be useful?
Also, do I need to try to sort out the packs and undo any row shifting, like in the video, or does that only matter once the boxes have been mapped and you're just working out which packs to open? Would it be better for me to just list the packs in the order they were in the box?
Sorry for the n00b questions. I've never done box mapping before (until RTR, I hadn't bought full boxes for a loooong time), and I just want to contribute!
I'm getting a box tomorrow is it worth mapping and listing here, or is 1 box too small a quantity to be useful?
Also, do I need to try to sort out the packs and undo any row shifting, like in the video, or does that only matter once the boxes have been mapped and you're just working out which packs to open? Would it be better for me to just list the packs in the order they were in the box?
Sorry for the n00b questions. I've never done box mapping before (until RTR, I hadn't bought full boxes for a loooong time), and I just want to contribute!
One box or 50 boxes, every box helps and is appreciated.
List them as is or rearrange them like in the video. If you manage to distort the order, the computer program will just toss the data. I suppose to err on the side of caution, just list them as is. Putting them in order is much more helpful when you are mapping the box. If you are constructing a map, it doesn't matter much.
Looks like there is a new sequence besides the one we saw for INN thru RTR. This is what I think it is; would like someone to check and confirm though. It does have the proper number of each track in the sequence (5 A's, 5 B's, 6 C's, 6 D's). The data provided so far has boxes with both sequences. Not sure if it is possible to get both sequences in one case, or if the entire case is one or the other.
I'm relatively sure that they print them all in the US now, or maybe they use the same sorting technique. If you have a box, by all means, post it. Just make sure you note where the box was manufactured.
Just wanted to repost what I asked in the RTR box mapping thread a few topics below, I am hoping to get an answer. Thanks guys!
f there has been box shifting or pack deletion/replacement/etc I see that he recalculated on the app, does it automatically recalculate for you based on what was pulled or do you have to know which row and which column has shifted/deleted etc..or does that app automatically figure it out based on what rare was pulled?
Right
Sacred Foundry
Boros Reckoner
Firemane avenger High Priest of Penence
Crypt ghast
Treasury Thrall
Signal the Clans
Gruul Ragebeast
Borborygmos Enraged*
Whispering Madness Mountain
Blind obedience
Alms Beast
Frontline Medic.
No mythic Tokens Domri/Cleric I would have mentioned them otherwise. (Also, when are they going to mark the tokens with rarity, it's overdue.)
I have access to a lot of product but I will not be buying it. I can ask those that buy boxes to open it in front of me. We will see how it goes.
I want a Domri.
@Klooher, yes it's possible to scam people. Most of us don't do that. If we were, it'd be pretty poor business to tell people what we were doing and how to do it themselves. We do it because it's a fun puzzle, that allows us to explore another aspect of the game we all love. And, although it's by no means the main intent, we raise awareness of mapping. These threads popping up as people post info attract others attention and get them to learn about it. I can't tell you how many people come into each season's set and ask "does this actually work?" It's probably half the posts in any given thread. If we can show them that "this is surprisingly easy to do" (once the map's solved) or "hey, it's a really bad idea to buy loose packs online," then that's a plus for the magic community as a whole.
I've mapped a box of RTR. It's possible; it's fun; most of all, it's great to hand people packs and say "hey, enjoy the _________" then watch them react to opening it. It's a wonderful way for people to learn about mapping and see it in action. I can tell you for certain they'll all check twice before buying loose packs!
Re-reading this, it sounds a little mean. I'm sorry about that. I'm not always the best with words/making them come off precisely the way I want. Just wanted to try and explain my (and I believe others) motivation for what we do here.
For this (sleeves), I'd recommend using the last number of the sleeve ID. If you look at the back of a pack, with the barcode on the upper right, there's a number on the bottom left corner. The 5 sleeve designs are the last digit of this number. For instance: A pack of RTR with NivMizzit on the front is #15048886000003 EN. Golgari Guildmage ends in 4 instead of 3, etc. This should allow fairly consistant numbering for everyone. I don't have anything from GTC (forgot to keep the sleeves) so I can't tell you what the are currently.
As far as I know, Wizards isn't/stopped doing a Belgium printing. Check your boxes to be sure but throughout RTR we never saw a Belgium printed box. Or, the boxes were printed there but use the USA mapping. Traditionally, the Belgium maps were a lot easier to break, which may have inspired this change.
Good job finding this pattern, Vinzito. This is actually an amazing breakthrough. Sorry to hear that your box turned out so poorly. I also want to point out, check the pack order after you shift the cards to provide examples of the missing packs. As you were shifting cards, I am pretty sure you put two packs in the wrong places.
I updated the original post with your video and instructions requesting posters include the guild or barcode number representing the guild. Once I have my box, I'll find out the barcode numbers for each guild, and list those instead.
Have you considered incorporating Qwerty's information on foil placement?
Currently Playing
Standard: Esper Control | UWR Flash --- Modern: Melira Pod | Splinter Twin
Boros Guildmage: 15049807000001
Vizkopa Guildmage: 15049807000002
Prime Speaker Zegana: 15049807000003
Skarrg Guildmage: 15049807000004
Duskmantle Guildmage: 15049807000005
I know I could contribute heavily for the app since I will be opening a case of GTC and I can try to get all the details for this.
Been reading the info about this, but am still wanting to know how you can tell if a certain card is in a specific track or not.
Without a map, you have to guess which rares are in each track. Since we're assuming the order of the tracks is the same, we can make some educated guesses, which I describe a bit in the original post. Brute forcing it would take a long time, that's why I'm glad people are using statistics and computer programming to figure out which cards are associated with others. I have considered seeing if I could perform some factor analysis myself, but it would take a bit of research.
For the time being, I would say open your boxes and contribute the data. It will probably be quite some time before the map is finished. However, the more boxes (and especially cases) we get, the faster we'll have the map.
I will help and contribute the data then for everyone so the map can be helpful here.
As I said before, I just want to understand which cards are in specific tracks. Once I can learn that, then this will help out a bunch
Sheet 3 has 27 boxes for you. One pack had a paper divider in it, and one box (column U) may have had its columns rearranged.
High Number Death Game
20 Questions (with Magic Cards)
Jeez, what was the reason for that many boxes, mad props though for that since that should give probably enough data to help here
I hope he can work this soon so I can perhaps just open my mythics/shocks and have spares to draft with friends. My FNM is already a draft so I can quickly build up a collection of worthless rares I don't want to have so many of
OMG this is amazing this should help A LOT!! I would be posting my 2 boxes, but unfortunately i accidentally left my notebook at my comic shop. Anywho thanks.
Also, do I need to try to sort out the packs and undo any row shifting, like in the video, or does that only matter once the boxes have been mapped and you're just working out which packs to open? Would it be better for me to just list the packs in the order they were in the box?
Sorry for the n00b questions. I've never done box mapping before (until RTR, I hadn't bought full boxes for a loooong time), and I just want to contribute!
One box or 50 boxes, every box helps and is appreciated.
List them as is or rearrange them like in the video. If you manage to distort the order, the computer program will just toss the data. I suppose to err on the side of caution, just list them as is. Putting them in order is much more helpful when you are mapping the box. If you are constructing a map, it doesn't matter much.
Left:
1 High Priest Penance
5 Lord of the Void
2 Unexpected Results
3 Simic Manipulator (Basilica Screecher)
4 Blind Obedience
5 Spark Trooper (Gyre Sage)
2 Angelic Skirmisher
1 Foundry Champion
3 Clan Defiance (Righteous Charge)
4 Consuming Aberration
5 Godless Shrine
1 Dilavion Primordial (Forest #272)
Center:
4 Ooze Flux
3 Clan Defiance
5 Gideon
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
2 Molten Orimordial
3 Undercity Plague
5 Stomping Ground
4 Rubblehulk (Burst of Strength)
1 Frontline Medic
2 Aurelia's Fury
3 Legion Loyalist
4 Immortal Servitude
Right:
2 Wrecking Ogre (Forest #273)
1 Breeding Pool
3 Soul Ransom (Dimir Charm)
4 Assemble the Legion
5 Treasury Thrull
1 Biomass Mutation
3 Mind Grind
2 Stolen Identity
4 Glaring Spotlight
5 Thespian's Stage (Scatter Arc)
1 Fathom Mage
2 Skarrg Goliath
Stores open boxes, I get to "participate."
High Number Death Game
20 Questions (with Magic Cards)
C
B
A
D
D
C
B
A
D
B
C
A
D
D
C
B
A
D
C
C
B
A
High Number Death Game
20 Questions (with Magic Cards)
I'm still in the process of opening my boxes. I'll post them when I have the data.
Don't be shy guys. We still need a tone of data before we sort this thing out.
Thanks Again
Left
Immortal servitude
Legion Loyalist
Angelic Skirmisher Verdant Haven
Biovisionary
Gyre Sage
Hellkite Tyrant*
Mystic Genisis Deaths Approach
Assemble the Legion
Five-Alarm Fire
Stolen Identiy
Gideon
Obzedat, Ghost Council
Middle
wrecking ogre
Realmwright
Ogre Slumlord Boros keyrune
Consuming Aberration
Deathpact Angel* Mortis Strider
Undercity Plague
Spark Trooper
Unexpected Results
Simic Manipulator
Molten Primordial Dimir Charm
Foundry Champion
Angelic Skirmisher Undercity Plauge
Right
Sacred Foundry
Boros Reckoner
Firemane avenger High Priest of Penence
Crypt ghast
Treasury Thrall
Signal the Clans
Gruul Ragebeast
Borborygmos Enraged*
Whispering Madness Mountain
Blind obedience
Alms Beast
Frontline Medic.
No mythic Tokens Domri/Cleric I would have mentioned them otherwise. (Also, when are they going to mark the tokens with rarity, it's overdue.)
I have access to a lot of product but I will not be buying it. I can ask those that buy boxes to open it in front of me. We will see how it goes.
I want a Domri.
Made in the USA Case ID 9ULX8LA Box W67T7LC (box 6 of the case)
L:
Biomass Mutation
Ogre Slumlord
Clan Defiance
Merciless Eviction
Skarrg Goliath
Gideon, Champion of Justice
Foundry Champion
Obzedat, Ghost Council
Rubblebelt Raiders
Godless Shrine
Nightveil Specter
Treasury Thrull
C:
Undercity Plague
Diluvian Primordial
Borborygmos Enraged
Assemble the Legion
Ooze Flux
Frontline Medic (Duskmantle Seer)
Realmwright
Illusionist's Bracers
Mind Grind
Sylvan Primordial
Gruul Ragebeast
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
R:
Hellkite Tyrant
Spark Trooper
Legion Loyalist
Alms Beast
Whispering Madness
Boros Reckoner
Rubblehulk
Luminate Primordial
Mystic Genesis
Biovisionary
Thespian's Stage
Breeding Pool
Box 5 (NOM87LC)
L:
Treasury Thrull
Gruul Ragebeast
Aurelia's Fury
Foundry Champion
Diluvian Primordial
Breeding Pool
Watery Grave
Fathom Mage
Alms Beast
Wrecking Ogre
Sepulchral Primordial
Sacred Foundry
C:
Giant Adephage
Watery Grave
Biomass Mutation
Skarrg Goliath
Godless Shrine
Crypt Ghast
Deathpact Angel
Thespian Stage
Glaring Spotlight
Molten Primordial
Five-Alarm Fire
Mystic Genesis
R:
Unexpected Results
Master Biomancer
Firemane Avenger (Blind Obedience)
High Priest of Penance
Obzedat, Ghost Council
Nightveil Specter
Illusionist's Bracers
Mind Grind
Luminate Primordial
Realmwright
Gyre Sage
Rubblehulk
Box 4 (OTYB7LC)
L:
Ooze Flux
Wrecking Ogre
Unexpected Results
Immortal Servitude
Gideon, Champion of Justice
Sepulchral Primordial
Ogre Slumlord
Mind Grind
Blind Obedience
Boros Reckoner
Treasury Thrull
Merciless Eviction
C:
Skarrg Goliath
Glaring Spotlight
Aurelia's Fury (Rubblehulk)
Legion Loyalist
Clan Defiance
Assemble the Legion
Sacred Foundry
Watery Grave
Biomass Mutation
Stolen Identity
Rubblehulk
Stomping Ground
R:
Prime Speaker Zegana
Firemane Avenger
Lord of the Void
Soul Ransom
Luminate Primordial
Five-Alarm Fire (Hellkite Tyrant)
Consuming Aberration
Simic Manipulator
High Priest of Penance
Frontline Medic
Fathom Mage
Undercity Plague
Box 3 (MS417LC)
L:
Gruul Ragebeast
Mystic Genesis
Foundry Champion
Glaring Spotlight
Domri Rade
Stomping Ground
Gyre Sage
Undercity Plague
Merciless Eviction
Blind Obedience
Boros Reckoner
Angelic Skirmisher
C:
Stolen Identity
Spark Trooper (Legion Loyalist)
Signal the Clans
Frontline Medic
Wrecking Ogre
Diluvian Primordial
Rubblebelt Raiders
Soul Ransom
Assemble the Legion
Ooze Flux
Illusionist's Bracers
Consuming Aberration (Sacred Foundry)
R:
Blind Obedience
Ooze Flux
Prime Speaker Zegana
Legion Loyalist
Skarrg Goliath
Rubblehulk
Giant Adephage
Sepulchral Primordial
Immortal Servitude
Whispering Madness
Sylvan Primordial
Fathom Mage
Box 2 (EF3Y7LC)
L:
Consuming Aberration
Soul Ransom
Sepulchral Primordial
Alms Beast
Duskmantle Seer
Simic Manipulator
Signal The Clans
Biovisionary
Merciless Eviction
Spark Trooper
Borborygmos Enraged
Molten Primordial
C:
Stolen Identity
Breeding Pool
Gruul Ragebeast
Godless Shrine
Sylvan Primordial
Thespian's Stage
Glaring Spotlight
Nightveil Specter
Crypt Ghast (Immortal Servitude)
Rubblebelt Raiders
Stomping Ground
Mystic Genesis
R:
Molten Primordial
Sacred Foundry
Five-Alarm Fire
Frontline Medic
Gyre Sage
Angelic Skirmisher
Ogre Slumlord
Legion Loyalist
Whispering Madness
Enter the Infinite
Boros Reckoner
Clan Defiance
Box 1 (LYCY7LC)
L:
Whispering Madness
Crypt Ghast
Biomass Mutation
Fathom Mage
Foundry Champion
Rubblebelt Raiders
Ogre Slumlord
Breeding Pool
Unexpected Results
Luminate Primordial (Master Biomancer)
Lord of the Void
Treasury Thrull (Undercity Plague)
C:
Hellkite Tyrant
Firemane Avenger
High Priest of Penance
Nightveil Specter
Alms Beast
Stomping Ground
Enter the Infinite
Biovisionary
Angelic Skirmisher
Immortal Servitude
Blind Obedience
Undercity Plague
R:
Diluvian Primordial
Signal the Clans
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
Watery Grave
Master Biomancer
Spark Trooper
Simic Manipulator
Sylvan Primordial
Realmwright
Illusionist's Bracers
Signal the Clans
Domri Rade