So mill obviously isn't the most viable option for standard right now, but we do have some extremely powerful cards for it. Could mill race other archetypes?
Then of course spells with cipher, perhaps Whispering Madness and definitely Hands of Binding, and perhaps Call of the Nightwing for fodder to Undercity Informer and extra triggers for Consuming Aberration. Add some countermagic and it could pack quite a punch. A little land denial, a little control, and potential for massive milling.
Given standards current state, I don't think you're going to be able to out-race a decent standard deck with a purely milling strategy. If anything you'd probably want to go with a control oriented archetype with a win-condition that mills.
I would suggest the following:
Jace, Memory Adept - A pretty obvious win-condition in milling decks. Puts the opponent on a decently fast clock.
Nephalia Drownyard - A land with a decent milling effect to grind opponents out over a long game.
Sands of Delirium - Another decent win-con for a control oriented deck.
Of course this may all change once Gatecrash hits, but again, for now I would recommend going control with a mill wincon. Of course these are just my thoughts and I could easily be proven wrong. It would be great to see a deck with an aggressive mill strategy that can race aggro/midrange.
Edit:
From the Gatecrash spoilers,
Consuming Aberration and Mind Grind both seem like they will be decent win-conditions for a deck that aims to mill, but I still can't see a mill strategy aggressively racing other archetypes. I may need a perspective change, but I am currently viewing mill as a means for control to grind out a win.
Edit2: Actually, I wasn't around for the Alara Reborn block. How did Mind Funeral do in that block? Do you guys thing cards like Mind Grind will make aggressive milling more viable?
Mind Grind isn't bad, though I passed it up because it's nowhere near the beast that Mind Funeral was. Sands of Delirium is bad for a mill strategy, and is a dead 3 drop when it hits, which should be when you're holding mana for countermagic. Jace, Memory Adept is ok. At five mana, I'd much rather have Consuming Aberration.
Regarding Sands of Delirium. Again, I don't think Sands of Delirium is meant for aggressive milling, it's meant as a win-con for control oriented decks. Even though it costs 3 mana, it would be foolish to view it as a T3 play; there are countless better suited cards to play on T3, Sands is a win-con. It's more of a T5+ (depending on deck) "After I've acquired some semblance of control over the game" kind of play. Although I don't play it in my control deck, I've seen it used well in the right control deck, and so I will have to disagree on it being a bad mill card - IMO it's definitely more playable than Destroy the Evidence, Chronic Flooding, and Undead Alchemist.
Regarding Mind Grind I'm definitely inclined to agree. It seems much more inefficient than Mind Funeral. Not sure how it will fit into the changing meta. For the amount of mana needed for it being a one-time-use sorcery, I'd rather be eot-ing a reusable Sands ability.
Regarding Jace and the Aberration, I think they're different cards suited for different archetypes. Jace is another win-con for control, not aggressive milling. You seem to be envisioning a mill deck that is relatively creature-heavy. The cards I discussed are more oriented for control strategies. There is no denying that Consuming Aberration seems like it will be a beast in either setup though.
why do you need an efficient win condition when you have infinite mana?
(especially when you have a win condition thats resilient to countermagic due to flashback).
why do you need an efficient win condition when you have infinite mana?
(especially when you have a win condition thats resilient to countermagic due to flashback).
You have a very good point noting flashback. I was mostly considering it's possible relevancy as a replacement once Confusion rotates out.
I really want it to be good, but I don't think it will be. I think the premise of what mynameisyonas is saying is correct. Mind Grind and a milling strategy can be an alternate win condition for a control deck, and when stuff like Entreat the Angels and other things rotate out, they may need another win condition maybe. Still, when Bant or some other form of control can draw so many cards with Sphinx's Revelation and Prime Speaker Zegana... they can win any way they want to.
I was thinking about a BUG list for either evolve or self/offensive mill. I dream of a Consuming aberration into a Prime Speaker Zegana.
Milling for resources to fuel jaces phantasom or kill with the guild mage, aberattion or Lasaav seems like an interesting route to take. Undead alchemist might be an option as well.
You guys really don't play mill, do you? A mill deck doesn't just mill one big amount when it can hit the whole deck. It mills repeatedly in small to medium bursts, which is exactly what Dimir is getting this time around. I just saw Paranoid Delusions, and it would go great in a mill deck. Psychic Strike is an ok counterspell for mill. Cremate and Vile Rebirth will be good for taking care of annoying flashback and recurring creatures like Gravecrawler. Trepanation Blade isn't a bad idea either.
You guys really don't play mill, do you? A mill deck doesn't just mill one big amount when it can hit the whole deck. It mills repeatedly in small to medium bursts, which is exactly what Dimir is getting this time around. I just saw Paranoid Delusions, and it would go great in a mill deck. Psychic Strike is an ok counterspell for mill. Cremate and Vile Rebirth will be good for taking care of annoying flashback and recurring creatures like Gravecrawler. Trepanation Blade isn't a bad idea either.
Pretty much, what this guy said. Mill is a patient man's game.
But I think I'd have to disagree with you. Dimir seems the weakest guild/color combo, this time around. Maybe we'll see this coming Standard? Or Dragon's Maze?
I still love Dimir though B)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature courtesy of DarkNightCavalier, Heroes of the Plane Studios
Misbehavin':
Quote from TK-421 »
4/16/2013 mithril ax promoted illegal activity and has been suspended for a week.
*Still love ya TK-421 haha Respect! \m/
Need a break from Standard or EDH? Play Two-Headed Giant, 60-Card Singleton!
You guys really don't play mill, do you? A mill deck doesn't just mill one big amount when it can hit the whole deck. It mills repeatedly in small to medium bursts, which is exactly what Dimir is getting this time around. I just saw Paranoid Delusions, and it would go great in a mill deck. Psychic Strike is an ok counterspell for mill. Cremate and Vile Rebirth will be good for taking care of annoying flashback and recurring creatures like Gravecrawler. Trepanation Blade isn't a bad idea either.
exactly, it's a patient man's game, which is what i use im my mimeoplasm edh.
so many cards are good with mill. mind grind is a win condition, the abbetation is a bomb in mill.
How about "You may discard your hand, pay 5 life, rip this card, remove 3 digits from any number of target fingers you control, and concede at the end of the next end step rather than pay It Will Go Through!!'s mana cost.
t1 phantasm
t2 wight of precinct six
t3 mind sculpt and dream twist, or thought scour if there's a card in their gy already, swing with 5/5 flying and a wight that can be between 3/3 and 7/7 depending on opponent.
or
t1 dream twist
t2 mind sculpt
t3 drop phantasm and wight out of burn range as soon as they hit the board.
Add 2x guildmage jace combo, some deathrite shamans, consuming aberation, a havengul lich and a lazav, maybe an evil twin, sprinkle with some removal/bounce/counters/draw. I think it can be fast enough against agro and steady against control.
Im too. I already found the Consuming Aberration awesome when it got revealed and I still find it awesome. But the Wight of Precinct Six just comes out of nowhere and its just really good. Has the potential to be a HUGE beater later in the game and that for only 1B
I think mill could be a thing. The support cards:
Liliana 3.0 and 2.0
Mutilate
Illness in the ranks (side Board)
Evil Twin
Deathrite Shaman (life Gain)
Curse of Death's Hold (side board?)
Severe the Bloodline
Dungeon Giest
Chromatic Lantern or realmwright (mana fixing)
Blustersquall
Appetite for Brains
ADD White for Supreme Verdict for board sweep
ADD red for Bonfire for one sided Board sweep
The issue with mill is that it is slow and meticulous, thus speed decks eat it. Can you survive till turn 4-5 to stabilize? It might be possible with the right draw/hand setup.
I think mill could be a thing. The support cards:
Liliana 3.0 and 2.0
Mutilate
Illness in the ranks (side Board)
Evil Twin
Deathrite Shaman (life Gain)
Curse of Death's Hold (side board?)
Severe the Bloodline
Dungeon Giest
Chromatic Lantern or realmwright (mana fixing)
Blustersquall
Appetite for Brains
ADD White for Supreme Verdict for board sweep
ADD red for Bonfire for one sided Board sweep
The issue with mill is that it is slow and meticulous, thus speed decks eat it. Can you survive till turn 4-5 to stabilize? It might be possible with the right draw/hand setup.
Why evil twin? I feel like Augur of bolas could provide better early game support
How about "You may discard your hand, pay 5 life, rip this card, remove 3 digits from any number of target fingers you control, and concede at the end of the next end step rather than pay It Will Go Through!!'s mana cost.
T4 Mutilate, your Phantasm is strong enough to survive and your opponent's GY fills with next creatures so your Death's Approach is getting better (so is WoP6) basically you will never regret getting one of those cards (unless your opponents clears his GY)
Consuming Aberration looks good with few cipher spells (they're CASTED each time so ability triggers)
Hmm. I can entertain your idea happening. Just survive the initial wave and slowly control the board to the crucial mid game.
It's just really hard to combat aggro with the wealth of "Power Creeps" of today's Standard, or Modern for that matter.
I hope some Mill decks can make a huge splash or even a Top 8 come GTC B)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature courtesy of DarkNightCavalier, Heroes of the Plane Studios
Misbehavin':
Quote from TK-421 »
4/16/2013 mithril ax promoted illegal activity and has been suspended for a week.
*Still love ya TK-421 haha Respect! \m/
Need a break from Standard or EDH? Play Two-Headed Giant, 60-Card Singleton!
Thinking about this more, if you've Thought Scoured and Mind Sculpted a couple of times or if your cipher cards have gone off once or twice Psychic Spiral is just flat out better than Mind Grind.
I think your survival against the faster decks might lie in Tragic Slipping and killing everything your opponent plays and using Jace's Phantasm or a trepanation bladed invisible stalker for the win, rather than milling.
I proxies a mill/control deck together last night and it was great. Consuming Aberration hitting the board as a 16/16? Kind of scary. A few Jaces Phantasms and 2 Aberrations and you can sit back and mill. It makes control decks wary of playing Sphinx or even Think Twice.
However, even with Auger, it is terrible against aggro. So there needs to be a build that can manage both kinds of deck
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Chronic Flooding
Destroy the Evidence
Dream Twist
Thought Scour (maybe)
Undead Alchemist
and from the spoiler:
Undercity Informer
Consuming Aberration
Dimir Charm
Then of course spells with cipher, perhaps Whispering Madness and definitely Hands of Binding, and perhaps Call of the Nightwing for fodder to Undercity Informer and extra triggers for Consuming Aberration. Add some countermagic and it could pack quite a punch. A little land denial, a little control, and potential for massive milling.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
I would suggest the following:
Jace, Memory Adept - A pretty obvious win-condition in milling decks. Puts the opponent on a decently fast clock.
Codex Shredder - Decent one drop for passive milling and late game can be used to recycle Terminus, Supreme Verdict, Sphinx's Revelation, Jace, Memory Adept, or whatever else you may want.
Nephalia Drownyard - A land with a decent milling effect to grind opponents out over a long game.
Sands of Delirium - Another decent win-con for a control oriented deck.
Of course this may all change once Gatecrash hits, but again, for now I would recommend going control with a mill wincon. Of course these are just my thoughts and I could easily be proven wrong. It would be great to see a deck with an aggressive mill strategy that can race aggro/midrange.
Edit:
From the Gatecrash spoilers,
Consuming Aberration and Mind Grind both seem like they will be decent win-conditions for a deck that aims to mill, but I still can't see a mill strategy aggressively racing other archetypes. I may need a perspective change, but I am currently viewing mill as a means for control to grind out a win.
Edit2: Actually, I wasn't around for the Alara Reborn block. How did Mind Funeral do in that block? Do you guys thing cards like Mind Grind will make aggressive milling more viable?
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
Regarding Mind Grind I'm definitely inclined to agree. It seems much more inefficient than Mind Funeral. Not sure how it will fit into the changing meta. For the amount of mana needed for it being a one-time-use sorcery, I'd rather be eot-ing a reusable Sands ability.
Regarding Jace and the Aberration, I think they're different cards suited for different archetypes. Jace is another win-con for control, not aggressive milling. You seem to be envisioning a mill deck that is relatively creature-heavy. The cards I discussed are more oriented for control strategies. There is no denying that Consuming Aberration seems like it will be a beast in either setup though.
Noooo! For some reason I never caught that... my Final Form is lame...
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
why do you need an efficient win condition when you have infinite mana?
(especially when you have a win condition thats resilient to countermagic due to flashback).
You have a very good point noting flashback. I was mostly considering it's possible relevancy as a replacement once Confusion rotates out.
Milling for resources to fuel jaces phantasom or kill with the guild mage, aberattion or Lasaav seems like an interesting route to take. Undead alchemist might be an option as well.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
Pretty much, what this guy said. Mill is a patient man's game.
But I think I'd have to disagree with you. Dimir seems the weakest guild/color combo, this time around. Maybe we'll see this coming Standard? Or Dragon's Maze?
I still love Dimir though B)
Signature courtesy of DarkNightCavalier, Heroes of the Plane Studios
Misbehavin':
*Still love ya TK-421 haha Respect! \m/
exactly, it's a patient man's game, which is what i use im my mimeoplasm edh.
so many cards are good with mill. mind grind is a win condition, the abbetation is a bomb in mill.
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
t2 wight of precinct six
t3 mind sculpt and dream twist, or thought scour if there's a card in their gy already, swing with 5/5 flying and a wight that can be between 3/3 and 7/7 depending on opponent.
or
t1 dream twist
t2 mind sculpt
t3 drop phantasm and wight out of burn range as soon as they hit the board.
Add 2x guildmage jace combo, some deathrite shamans, consuming aberation, a havengul lich and a lazav, maybe an evil twin, sprinkle with some removal/bounce/counters/draw. I think it can be fast enough against agro and steady against control.
Wight is one of the cards I am excited about.
Im too. I already found the Consuming Aberration awesome when it got revealed and I still find it awesome. But the Wight of Precinct Six just comes out of nowhere and its just really good. Has the potential to be a HUGE beater later in the game and that for only 1B
Liliana 3.0 and 2.0
Mutilate
Illness in the ranks (side Board)
Evil Twin
Deathrite Shaman (life Gain)
Curse of Death's Hold (side board?)
Severe the Bloodline
Dungeon Giest
Chromatic Lantern or realmwright (mana fixing)
Blustersquall
Appetite for Brains
ADD White for Supreme Verdict for board sweep
ADD red for Bonfire for one sided Board sweep
The issue with mill is that it is slow and meticulous, thus speed decks eat it. Can you survive till turn 4-5 to stabilize? It might be possible with the right draw/hand setup.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Why evil twin? I feel like Augur of bolas could provide better early game support
Hmm. I can entertain your idea happening. Just survive the initial wave and slowly control the board to the crucial mid game.
It's just really hard to combat aggro with the wealth of "Power Creeps" of today's Standard, or Modern for that matter.
I hope some Mill decks can make a huge splash or even a Top 8 come GTC B)
Signature courtesy of DarkNightCavalier, Heroes of the Plane Studios
Misbehavin':
*Still love ya TK-421 haha Respect! \m/
I proxies a mill/control deck together last night and it was great. Consuming Aberration hitting the board as a 16/16? Kind of scary. A few Jaces Phantasms and 2 Aberrations and you can sit back and mill. It makes control decks wary of playing Sphinx or even Think Twice.
However, even with Auger, it is terrible against aggro. So there needs to be a build that can manage both kinds of deck