I took my first look at this and thought "another Boros rare that costs too much. It has no immediate impact, and won't have more than just a marginal effect until the 3rd or 4th turn. Then I decided to take a better look at it, especially considering the current standard.
American Control could run this. It survives your own board wipes, produces chump blockers, and after a few turns starts to dominate the game. I think it's main place,if it gets one, will be in Naya Midrange as a SB vs control. A midrange deck gets this out and the control deck needs to draw an O-ring quickly.
Unfortunately, I don't think this does so any better than Garruk, Primal Hunter for the same cost, or the cheaper and more color friendly Garruk Relentless. Still, any card that provides massive inevitability and is hard to remove is worth at least taking a look at.
This could help give RWB tokens a decent chance of becoming a deck. I was doing some testing with it before GTC spoilers started, and it just didn't quite have enough power. I was really hoping for some kind of Orzhov Pontiff effect, or for some solid Boros token producers. So far Boros hasn't gotten a 2-3cmc token spell, but this card could certainly go in that deck. Tokens is effective against aggro, because your many tokens can chump block their creatures until you get your anthem effects that allow them to trade. It often struggles against control, because it is too slow to get going before control can stabilize. This card could provide a way to ensure inevitability, and is harder to remove than creatures, though still gets hit by O-ring.
I think that while this card is worth keeping an eye on, it probably won't be played in Standard. Might be a fun card for casual or EDH though. It is a first-pick Limited bomb though. Any time you play this, unless you are in serious trouble with an evasive creature about to kill you, you should win the game even if you don't play another spell
It's very slow. At 5 CMC you have Thundermaw.
At the point this placed the 1st token, Thundermaw already hit for 10.
when you have 6 tokens, Thundermaw hited for 20.
It ETB aroud turn 5, and will have a decent relevance only after turn 8 (6+ tokens)
Something that will never be relevant before turn 7 have low chance of being played on standard.
Unless a new strong control rises to support this, a thundermaw is a better investiment for 5 manas.
If it was 4CMC, could be played at turn 3 with some ramp.
Also, Rakdos Charm will love if this enchantment see some play.
Well, to be fair, when you have 6 tokens, you've hit for 10, the threat is less vulnerable to removal, and you can leave back blockers. Wraths and spot removal are ineffective, but the same can't be said for thundermaw (wraths aren't "great" but they do get rid of the threat, the same is not true here).
The damage compares very favorably in the following turns, with AtL quickly overtaking Thundermaw.
** The point at which the card has done 20 damage.
Assemble the Legion doesn't outpace Thundermaw till it's in play for 6 turns, but it gets vastly more effective after that and is only 1 turn behind Thundermaw in dealing 20 damage. Whether or not that is relevant, though, remains to be seen (I highly doubt it). Against a control deck, Assemble the Legion will be countered or exiled with detention sphere or O-Ring. As a win con for a control deck, it's semi-reasonable with a similar clock to drownyard while providing blockers.
However, unlike drownyard, it costs you a card and is easier to interact with (detention sphere, o-ring, appetite for brains, slaughter games). Due to these possibilities, a control deck could not rely on it to win the game, which completely defeats the purpose of being a win-con for a control deck that wants to devote as few slots as possible to winning the game.
For the card to see play in constructed, I'm pretty sure it would need to have some enchantment version of hexproof. As is, even if you can remove your opponent's det sphere, you've lost all your counters. There's also the fact that izzet staticaster HOSES this card. I'm just not seeing the potential for constructed here.
Or just izzet staticaster, which already sees a ton of play in Standard.
I like that too. But with the new decks that we will see coming, I think that it will be easier with the mono-black Curse of Death's Hold, rather than the UR that's needed for Izzet Staticaster.
Its is cool cause kicks out dudes pretty fast. Problem is that the mana cost is a little high for standard competative play. For a 2 color spell; it should have cost 4 total.
I like this, demands an answer or it will get out of hand. Takes no more investment than the initial cast. If it's on the field for a few turns it can buy time and card advantage, too long and it will deal the killing blow.
It's not fast so it doesn't fit in aggro, I'm thinking american control, or BWR control could make use of this or some token/soldier deck perhaps.
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Yes, on the long run it is very powerful.
But the "long run" until it have a relevance is is too long, and your opponent can see it coming and try something.
too cute for T2, but in limited, this will be a super-awesome wincon. Especially if there are no real enchantment hate cards. This is a really inevitable wincon
How about "You may discard your hand, pay 5 life, rip this card, remove 3 digits from any number of target fingers you control, and concede at the end of the next end step rather than pay It Will Go Through!!'s mana cost.
Sure, it becomes "inevitable" after 6-7 turns. That's 6-7 turns for your opponent to disrupt a slow and not very hard-to-disrupt enchantment.
Izzet Staticaster laughts at any number of tokens. If you say "I can have pump", they can have multiple Staticasters.
Detention Sphere gets rid of it. Thundermaw flies over it and beats you in the face. So do other fliers. And they have all the time in the world to do so. Bonfire kills all your tokens and lets them swing in for lethal or just delay you some more.
As a Win-Con, BY ITSELF, no, this card need some support for it to cause mayhem and chaos on a field. But, this is where I come in... Observe:
American Control- With all the Board Wiping, Bouncing, Charm causing Goodness within THESE THREE COLORS, there should be NO REASON why you can't go American and hold just 5 turns and then get it in. If you board wipe again, oh well. If you didn't see Legion go with the rest of the board, Beat face next turn and resume the process. THAT SIMPLE!
Nayan Midrange- With enough removal and pressure, you can ease this card in, let it grow and then "*Gasp* THERE'S SOMETHING ON YOUR FACE! *SMACK* IT WAS PAIN!!!!"
Boros Control- With Obey in the same set, Thunderus isn't an issue any more... Just saying.
This card feels more like a control card than an aggro card, so it doesn't belong in the same deck (or genre) as Thundermaw. I wouldn't use this in aggro ever, but in a control deck it's a hard to remove kill card.
Also, generating tokens means you have ways to sacrifice it for effects as well.
Seems like a solid finisher in any control deck that is already planning on being able to make RW by turn 5-7. It's fire and forget, so after getting it in to play, you can still usually use the rest of your resources for just not dying, and this will get there by itself, eventually. Detention Sphere/O Ring are pretty much the only main deck cards that can handle this, right?
Seems like a solid finisher in any control deck that is already planning on being able to make RW by turn 5-7. It's fire and forget, so after getting it in to play, you can still usually use the rest of your resources for just not dying, and this will get there by itself, eventually. Detention Sphere/O Ring are pretty much the only main deck cards that can handle this, right?
Pretty sure there is an M13 spell in white that exiles target enchantment
Interesting, I had completely forgotten about that one: good find
Still though, he was asking what spells can deal with enchantments in standard outside of Oblivion Ring and Detention Sphere.
oh my bad, was kinda in the moment erase is a great one. sundering growth is my fav right now cuz of it's synergy with rancor (which id probably be running in this deck because i believe Naya is going to kill)
i think this is underrated. it's a single card win condition that is more or less immune to targeted removal and board wipes. it also helps stabilize you immediately so waiting 6-7 turns isn't nearly as ridiculous as it sounds. you have to remember that you are getting 1-2-3-4-5-6 blockers each turn to help you do so.
this would be much stronger if it gave first strike over haste, but any card that wins the game on its own, helps you stabilize, and is difficult to remove shouldn't be ignored.
i think this is underrated. it's a single card win condition that is more or less immune to targeted removal and board wipes. it also helps stabilize you immediately so waiting 6-7 turns isn't nearly as ridiculous as it sounds. you have to remember that you are getting 1-2-3-4-5-6 blockers each turn to help you do so.
this would be much stronger if it gave first strike over haste, but any card that wins the game on its own, helps you stabilize, and is difficult to remove shouldn't be ignored.
and in Naya can be played turn 3-4. i think a Naya Tokens deck that ramped this out on turn 3 (have to run a lot of dorks) could be pretty great
I took my first look at this and thought "another Boros rare that costs too much. It has no immediate impact, and won't have more than just a marginal effect until the 3rd or 4th turn. Then I decided to take a better look at it, especially considering the current standard.
American Control could run this. It survives your own board wipes, produces chump blockers, and after a few turns starts to dominate the game. I think it's main place,if it gets one, will be in Naya Midrange as a SB vs control. A midrange deck gets this out and the control deck needs to draw an O-ring quickly.
Unfortunately, I don't think this does so any better than Garruk, Primal Hunter for the same cost, or the cheaper and more color friendly Garruk Relentless. Still, any card that provides massive inevitability and is hard to remove is worth at least taking a look at.
This could help give RWB tokens a decent chance of becoming a deck. I was doing some testing with it before GTC spoilers started, and it just didn't quite have enough power. I was really hoping for some kind of Orzhov Pontiff effect, or for some solid Boros token producers. So far Boros hasn't gotten a 2-3cmc token spell, but this card could certainly go in that deck. Tokens is effective against aggro, because your many tokens can chump block their creatures until you get your anthem effects that allow them to trade. It often struggles against control, because it is too slow to get going before control can stabilize. This card could provide a way to ensure inevitability, and is harder to remove than creatures, though still gets hit by O-ring.
I think that while this card is worth keeping an eye on, it probably won't be played in Standard. Might be a fun card for casual or EDH though. It is a first-pick Limited bomb though. Any time you play this, unless you are in serious trouble with an evasive creature about to kill you, you should win the game even if you don't play another spell
Well, to be fair, when you have 6 tokens, you've hit for 10, the threat is less vulnerable to removal, and you can leave back blockers. Wraths and spot removal are ineffective, but the same can't be said for thundermaw (wraths aren't "great" but they do get rid of the threat, the same is not true here).
The damage compares very favorably in the following turns, with AtL quickly overtaking Thundermaw.
Damage Each turn (AtL)
1) 0
2) 1
3) 1 + 2 = 3
4) 3 + 3 = 6
5) 6 + 4 = 10 **
6) 10 + 5 = 15
7) 15 + 6 = 21
Total: 55
Damage Each turn (Thundermaw)
1) 5
2) 5
3) 5
4) 5 **
5) 5
6) 5
7) 5
Total: 35
** The point at which the card has done 20 damage.
Assemble the Legion doesn't outpace Thundermaw till it's in play for 6 turns, but it gets vastly more effective after that and is only 1 turn behind Thundermaw in dealing 20 damage. Whether or not that is relevant, though, remains to be seen (I highly doubt it). Against a control deck, Assemble the Legion will be countered or exiled with detention sphere or O-Ring. As a win con for a control deck, it's semi-reasonable with a similar clock to drownyard while providing blockers.
However, unlike drownyard, it costs you a card and is easier to interact with (detention sphere, o-ring, appetite for brains, slaughter games). Due to these possibilities, a control deck could not rely on it to win the game, which completely defeats the purpose of being a win-con for a control deck that wants to devote as few slots as possible to winning the game.
For the card to see play in constructed, I'm pretty sure it would need to have some enchantment version of hexproof. As is, even if you can remove your opponent's det sphere, you've lost all your counters. There's also the fact that izzet staticaster HOSES this card. I'm just not seeing the potential for constructed here.
Or just izzet staticaster, which already sees a ton of play in Standard.
I like that too. But with the new decks that we will see coming, I think that it will be easier with the mono-black Curse of Death's Hold, rather than the UR that's needed for Izzet Staticaster.
Just my opinion though.
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It's not fast so it doesn't fit in aggro, I'm thinking american control, or BWR control could make use of this or some token/soldier deck perhaps.
Yes, on the long run it is very powerful.
But the "long run" until it have a relevance is is too long, and your opponent can see it coming and try something.
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To be fair, curse already kicks a lot of teeth in, and people still play X/1s. Also, white in this color means able to find enchantment removal.
Izzet Staticaster laughts at any number of tokens. If you say "I can have pump", they can have multiple Staticasters.
Detention Sphere gets rid of it. Thundermaw flies over it and beats you in the face. So do other fliers. And they have all the time in the world to do so. Bonfire kills all your tokens and lets them swing in for lethal or just delay you some more.
This would have been decent at 4 mana.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
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Should have costed 4 mana, same with crusade btw
Still would have been to kitchen tabley imho
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As a Win-Con, BY ITSELF, no, this card need some support for it to cause mayhem and chaos on a field. But, this is where I come in... Observe:
American Control- With all the Board Wiping, Bouncing, Charm causing Goodness within THESE THREE COLORS, there should be NO REASON why you can't go American and hold just 5 turns and then get it in. If you board wipe again, oh well. If you didn't see Legion go with the rest of the board, Beat face next turn and resume the process. THAT SIMPLE!
Nayan Midrange- With enough removal and pressure, you can ease this card in, let it grow and then "*Gasp* THERE'S SOMETHING ON YOUR FACE! *SMACK* IT WAS PAIN!!!!"
Boros Control- With Obey in the same set, Thunderus isn't an issue any more... Just saying.
Work with that and call me in the morning.
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Also, generating tokens means you have ways to sacrifice it for effects as well.
I think most people thought it's 1+1+1... They didn't know AtL adds more and more token each turn.
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Pretty sure there is an M13 spell in white that exiles target enchantment
EDIT: erase
i see your erase, and counter with faith's shield!
Interesting, I had completely forgotten about that one: good find
Still though, he was asking what spells can deal with enchantments in standard outside of Oblivion Ring and Detention Sphere.
EDIT: I now see he said "main deck" and I can safely assume, even though I don't play Standard, that Erase is NOT a main deck card!
oh my bad, was kinda in the moment erase is a great one. sundering growth is my fav right now cuz of it's synergy with rancor (which id probably be running in this deck because i believe Naya is going to kill)
this would be much stronger if it gave first strike over haste, but any card that wins the game on its own, helps you stabilize, and is difficult to remove shouldn't be ignored.
and in Naya can be played turn 3-4. i think a Naya Tokens deck that ramped this out on turn 3 (have to run a lot of dorks) could be pretty great