I'm seeing it as a definite possibility, with Mind Sculpt and Jace's Phantasm already spoiled, I see a possible monoblue build, with two win conditions in mind sculpt possibly flashed back with snapcaster and/or aracheomancer, and you could possibly go UB for Nephalia Drownyard. What do you guys think? I'm legitimately excited for this to possibly be a deck.
My bad on the wrong forum, all these seem to overlap.
I'm seeing it as a definite possibility, with Mind Sculpt and Jace's Phantasm already spoiled, I see a possible monoblue build, with two win conditions in mind sculpt possibly flashed back with snapcaster and/or aracheomancer, and you could possibly go UB for Nephalia Drownyard. What do you guys think? I'm legitimately excited for this to possibly be a deck.
My bad on the wrong forum, all these seem to overlap.
I really want mill to be a legitimate deck. I'm not sure it will make it as a competitive, but maybe until scars block rotates. Sword of BM, Jace 3.0, mind sculpt and phantom. Maybe with a tempo alternate wincon, sure.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig by myself! If you'd like a banner done, pm me! Avvie by DNC from Hero of the Planes Studio
RTR will be the deciding factor for next years environment and mill. The new two drop 7 mill + increasing confusion is a nice combination, but there's a severe lack in solid mill capabilities right now that can potentially end it.
There's too much graveyard play in Innistrad, and it creates major issues for Millers because you tend to feed right into their hands (pun intended).
If we get some solid Exile mill in the future, I'd say it has potential, but with how fast the current standard metagame is until October, its really not going to be viable for now in Standard.
However in Two-Headed Giant and Limited, it's always a blast.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Proud Member of the "Help Fblthp Get Home in DGM" Society
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It depends on your definition of viable. Do you mean at FNM like events or SCG+ level events? Actually, either way, the answer is no. It's probably kitchen table viable though.
Did Glimpse the Unthinkable see competitive play? No. And it milled 3 cards more.
Mill can be Limited viable with enough support (like in Kamigawa block, with the splice onto arcane mill card). But competitive, serious play? Never. Unless they REALLY start pushing it, mill cards are only good in control mirrors, and only the ones like Nephalia Drownyard, because it is a land and is a wincon in UB/Esper mirrors.
If they reprint Glimpse the Unthinkable in RTR there might be a critical mass of mill cards, enough to make a deck. I don't think it would be a very good deck, but it might be good in some matchups.
If they reprint Glimpse the Unthinkable in RTR there might be a critical mass of mill cards, enough to make a deck. I don't think it would be a very good deck, but it might be good in some matchups.
It would be nice to see a block with a strong mill theme in the future. Itll never see competitive play if milling is restricted to a few random cards throughout sets.
Jace's Phantasm is nice, but its not a mill card. It wont help you mill your opponent to death. You can use it as an efficient blocker, but thats about it. If you use it to attack your opponent you've defeated the whole point of running a mill deck.
Grafdigger's Cage is a good sideboard card, but it counteracts a lot of potential mill strategies. Good luck using snapcaster or any other flashback cards with the cage in play.
You don't want to play late-game dead draws like Jace's Erasure. They're trap cards. Without the proper setup, you can't ensure that they ever actually do anything, so you want something that will be able to further your goal no matter when you draw it.
I also didn't include Dream Twist because it doesn't do enough. Even in an almost best-case scenario where the game drags on forever and your opponent's effective library size is ~40 cards (due to them drawing a card every turn, etc.), that is still 2 cards milled = 1 life. This means Dream Twist is still just a 3-mana Sorcery that deals 3 to a player only. That type of card is not good enough.
Instead, what you need to do with the deck is simply stall while milling out with the occasional big mill spell to finish it more quickly. Jace mills a lot. Mind Sculpt mills a lot. Thought Scour replaces itself, so it's OK. If you notice, I listed a total of 14 non-land cards. This means that the other 20 cards in your deck should all be dedicated to stopping your opponent from being able to win. If you can do that effectively, then sure, you can win with mill.
However, at this point, you're less of a "mill deck" and more of a "hey, I'm another U/B Control Deck that wins slightly differently than other U/B control decks... wooo!" If you're OK with that, then maybe give it a try. However, cards like Grave Titan are much better at ending games on their own than Memory Adept, and that's pretty much why you'll only see mill as a 1% of the time strategy in Control VS Control matchups.
As a final side note, if Glimpse gets reprinted, it'd be interesting to see if the price goes down because more are available to the casual crowd, or if the price sky rockets because the casual crowd players all start trying to get more copies so they can "compete" in Standard.
The only time Mill has been a viable thing is when it was being used as a kill mechanic or a combo enabler. Mill just being mill will never be a viable strategy.
I really doubt it. Unless it's like combo (Painter, Trap Ascension) come to mind. It's just never rly been a viable way to kill someone. Dealing 20 is far more effective. Sure they could reprint Glimpse and maybe something else then you would have like Mind Sculpt, Glimpse, Dream Twist, thought scour, Increasing Confusion, snapcaster, jace. I just can't see that being better than a "regular" deck.
Jace's Phantasm might be good, but it probably won't be because mill is a viable strategy. It's the same deal with Visions of Beyond. Albeit with half the restriction of it being good, but with a smaller upside.
You can just play Thought Scour (a real card) and get there (somewhat) naturally.
Maybe if there was a mechanic for creatures like Mindsculpt (This deals damage to players in the form of putting the top card of their library into the graveyard.)
That's probably worded terribly, but the idea is there.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Looking to start a clan for Zork fans, PM if interested.
Atrius' Posts1W
Instant
You win target thread. If you aren't Atrius, Atrius wins that thread instead. "Wait, can you actually win a thread?" - Atrius.
When pigs fly the dedicated mill deck will be good.
Short answer: Mill will very likely never be good as a dedicated strategy. If you want to play mill, play high tide in legacy. It isn't technically mill though, and very often just BSZ's the opponent for lethal especially considering sneak and show is a deck now with emrakul invalidating brain freeze as a kill condition forcing you to stroke/BSZ them out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I don't think Mind Sculpt is the kind of power that mill really needs to finally become a good deck.
I'd rather have Tome Scour than Mind Sculpt if we're going for the possibility of "viable" mill -- and even that probably wouldn't do it. And as nice as Phantasm is as support, I'd rather have Leyline of the Void as my mill support card. (And Mind Funeral, but even that's unreliable.)
all i know is that as a big fan and player of m12 4 pack sealed online (30 card decks) I will not be playing that format with m13 simply due to mind sculpt at common
all i know is that as a big fan and player of m12 4 pack sealed online (30 card decks) I will not be playing that format with m13 simply due to mind sculpt at common
Now that is going to be a format for some bold (or ignorant) players. You'll need pendent orbs of steel (or a lack of knowledge of the existence of Mindsculpt).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
My bad on the wrong forum, all these seem to overlap.
Trades.
Decks
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted EDH RWU
I really want mill to be a legitimate deck. I'm not sure it will make it as a competitive, but maybe until scars block rotates. Sword of BM, Jace 3.0, mind sculpt and phantom. Maybe with a tempo alternate wincon, sure.
Sig by myself! If you'd like a banner done, pm me! Avvie by DNC from Hero of the Planes Studio
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
Haha, so true.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
There's too much graveyard play in Innistrad, and it creates major issues for Millers because you tend to feed right into their hands (pun intended).
If we get some solid Exile mill in the future, I'd say it has potential, but with how fast the current standard metagame is until October, its really not going to be viable for now in Standard.
However in Two-Headed Giant and Limited, it's always a blast.
RRR Khorenthos - The Red Block (Feedback needed!) RRR
This is true, and a big part of why I think a "viable" mill deck would pretty much *have* to include Grafdigger's Cage, at least as SB.
It's amusing to think that something created to hose U/ could end up helping it.
Still, the archetype will need a *lot* more support to gain ground.
Reprinting good stall cards like Propaganda and No Mercy would certainly help,
as would new direct-exile mill along the lines of Circu, Dimir Lobotomist, or Oona, Queen of the Fae.
Spells like Sadistic Sacrament, Memoricide, and Surgical Extraction to remove specific threats would also help.
It's got a ways to go, but it would make me really happy to see it at least pseudo-competitive (ie- might win a FNM or whatever).
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
want to know if a card is viable. see mill cards as a comparison to life loss. 3 cards milled = 1 damage.
would you play this card?
Damage sculpt 1R
sorcery
[CARDNAME] does 2 damage to target opponent.
Mill for 2 mana usually has to hit 9+ cards to be viable.
On Modern Masters 2:
Will be kept until 12/31/2013 to prove if Right or Wrong.Proven right 1/27/2013Yea Grafdigger's ruining Increasing Confusion creates some issues.
RRR Khorenthos - The Red Block (Feedback needed!) RRR
Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.
Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
This. Magic has always been a game about numbers. Mill doesn't add up.
Mill can be Limited viable with enough support (like in Kamigawa block, with the splice onto arcane mill card). But competitive, serious play? Never. Unless they REALLY start pushing it, mill cards are only good in control mirrors, and only the ones like Nephalia Drownyard, because it is a land and is a wincon in UB/Esper mirrors.
It would be nice to see a block with a strong mill theme in the future. Itll never see competitive play if milling is restricted to a few random cards throughout sets.
Jace's Phantasm is nice, but its not a mill card. It wont help you mill your opponent to death. You can use it as an efficient blocker, but thats about it. If you use it to attack your opponent you've defeated the whole point of running a mill deck.
Grafdigger's Cage is a good sideboard card, but it counteracts a lot of potential mill strategies. Good luck using snapcaster or any other flashback cards with the cage in play.
Thought Scour: 4
Mind Sculpt: 4
Jace, Memory Adept: 2
Nephalia Drownyard: 4
Snapcaster Mage: 4
Counters
Removal
You don't want to play late-game dead draws like Jace's Erasure. They're trap cards. Without the proper setup, you can't ensure that they ever actually do anything, so you want something that will be able to further your goal no matter when you draw it.
I also didn't include Dream Twist because it doesn't do enough. Even in an almost best-case scenario where the game drags on forever and your opponent's effective library size is ~40 cards (due to them drawing a card every turn, etc.), that is still 2 cards milled = 1 life. This means Dream Twist is still just a 3-mana Sorcery that deals 3 to a player only. That type of card is not good enough.
Instead, what you need to do with the deck is simply stall while milling out with the occasional big mill spell to finish it more quickly. Jace mills a lot. Mind Sculpt mills a lot. Thought Scour replaces itself, so it's OK. If you notice, I listed a total of 14 non-land cards. This means that the other 20 cards in your deck should all be dedicated to stopping your opponent from being able to win. If you can do that effectively, then sure, you can win with mill.
However, at this point, you're less of a "mill deck" and more of a "hey, I'm another U/B Control Deck that wins slightly differently than other U/B control decks... wooo!" If you're OK with that, then maybe give it a try. However, cards like Grave Titan are much better at ending games on their own than Memory Adept, and that's pretty much why you'll only see mill as a 1% of the time strategy in Control VS Control matchups.
As a final side note, if Glimpse gets reprinted, it'd be interesting to see if the price goes down because more are available to the casual crowd, or if the price sky rockets because the casual crowd players all start trying to get more copies so they can "compete" in Standard.
Jace's Phantasm might be good, but it probably won't be because mill is a viable strategy. It's the same deal with Visions of Beyond. Albeit with half the restriction of it being good, but with a smaller upside.
You can just play Thought Scour (a real card) and get there (somewhat) naturally.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
That's probably worded terribly, but the idea is there.
Atrius' Posts 1W
Instant
You win target thread. If you aren't Atrius, Atrius wins that thread instead.
"Wait, can you actually win a thread?" - Atrius.
Short answer: Mill will very likely never be good as a dedicated strategy. If you want to play mill, play high tide in legacy. It isn't technically mill though, and very often just BSZ's the opponent for lethal especially considering sneak and show is a deck now with emrakul invalidating brain freeze as a kill condition forcing you to stroke/BSZ them out.
Currently Playing:
Retired
I'd rather have Tome Scour than Mind Sculpt if we're going for the possibility of "viable" mill -- and even that probably wouldn't do it. And as nice as Phantasm is as support, I'd rather have Leyline of the Void as my mill support card. (And Mind Funeral, but even that's unreliable.)
Wait 'til Millstone comes back and people say things to say that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpgjnU7C3Aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7kkZixasc
Now that is going to be a format for some bold (or ignorant) players. You'll need pendent orbs of steel (or a lack of knowledge of the existence of Mindsculpt).