Mythics are supposed to be giant, flashy, thematically flavorful. Not necessarily $100 bills. Planeswalkers, and certain other cards have to be mythic otherwise limited would become a nightmare. On another note, how many army of the damned do you really want to open?
I agree with the flashy thematically flavored part of your post but they shouldn't neccesairly be giant, but they should be powerful. They should be playable in a lot of decks and i'm not asking for them to be 100$ bills waiting to be opened, i absolutely hate that the mythic rarity forces the prices of the cards through the roof. But a mythic rare should be like a 5$ value at minimum, there can be the chase rares and all of that that are ridiculously expensive pieces of cardboard but when you open a mythic you should always be excited and not thinking damn another crappy card.
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I really don't get the hate for the dragon so much
A 6/6 flyer for 7'seems on point manawise and when you add in a one sided wrath when he hits he becomes silly
Really stop thinking shards/zendikar is the power level magic SHOULD be....titans were op, BSA was op
This. Back when I first started playing 1 mana per power/toughness was a relatively decent thing, add another point to the cmc for abilities and things were balanced... that's why cards like serra angel were amazing and cards such as Shivan Dragon would terrorize our casual group... they were super mana efficient. Players now-a-days seem to expect to get handed creatures that are amazingly mana efficent and overpowered compared to the cards of old.
That said I am a big fan of the dragon flavor wise, look at it's flavor text of awesome:
"If it comes for you, die boldly or die swiftly -- for die you will."
Perfectly conveys the card.
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Avid EDH player GWUPhelddagrif----------------GWRhys, the Redeemed----------UBRLord of Tresserhorn--------XKozilek, Butcher of Truth WUBRGProgenitus---------------BGWKarador, Ghost Chieftain---URGIntet, the Dreamer---------RGWort, the Raidmother BGSavra-----------------------RGMarhault Elsdragon----------UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir------UWHanna, Ship's Navigator BSkithiryx the Blight Dragon--RWUZedruu the Greathearted----BRelentless Rats------------BRUNicol Bolas
This line of reasoning baffles me, so in limited the one guy that pulls a PW or titan just cashes out and the rest play for second?
This isn't really true all of the time. M12 prerelease I played u/w flyers with 2 gideons avengers, beat the guy with Gideon, Garruk, and Destiny. Just sayin.
On topic, I like them both.If you try hard enough you can cast Emrakul and win no problem. Of course, back when everybody was playing jund, I was playing Warp World and winning on turn 3-4, so my opinion may be biased towards big spells.
I don't think this is quite it. Even before Titans came along, expensive creatures (CMC>=6) tended to be unplayable, with a few exceptions. With Titans, they pushed the power level of 6-drops to the point where they were constructed-viable.
In other words, if Titans didn't exist, people still wouldn't play cards like this in Standard. Instead, they just wouldn't play 6+ drops.
because broodmate dragon and cruel ultimatum are 2-drops.
Maro has stated about this problem with mythics. It's a "Damned if they do, Damned if they don't." Mythic's all constructed playable? they cost $40-80. Cards never going to see a deck list except for Limited? $2-3. Either way people complain about them. I personally don't mind if a Mythic is good or not as long as it is impressive. Doesn't mean mana cost, or ability, I prefer a card that makes sense being Mythic. Army of the Damned does this for me, another trash dragon doesn't.
Gee, a better idea might have been to never make the mythic rarity.
=/
But a mythic rare should be like a 5$ value at minimum, there can be the chase rares and all of that that are ridiculously expensive pieces of cardboard but when you open a mythic you should always be excited and not thinking damn another crappy card.
Not everyone thinks the same as you. Some people love their big, splashy, tournament unplayable, fun bomb diggitys, and they deserve to have some Mythic cards made for them as well.
because broodmate dragon and cruel ultimatum are 2-drops.
To be fair , Broodmate and Cruel Ultimatum were a tiny little bit mana demanding in colors though.
There's always been decks with 6+ converted mana cost very competitive in standard , even not including ramp decks honestly. I only played standard since Ravnica but there's always seemed to be decks with large guys , it just depends on the meta of course a card like Primeval Titan wouldn't be very goo in a lot of other formats.
So the new mythics are more and more disappointing. a 7 cmc 6/6 dragon is underwhelming at mythic no mater what it's deal damage ability is and 8 cmc 3 of which is B for 13 2/2's won't see play. It's too slow. why is it mythic? I understand it's ability is good, but at mythic it should be pretty playable IMO.
Remember that this is a "flavor first" set. The article that spoiled the dragon explained that dragons in this kind of setting are practically unheard of...almost impossible. I bet you 100-1 that the rarity isn't based on ANYTHING except flavor.
I like that Wizards seems (?) to be rolling the power creep back a bit, at least for Standard.
I'm sort of unclear on how they'll do it for the format they just created (Modern). My friend made the point that "If you're going to ramp, why would you work towards things other than Emrakul?"
The super, super efficient Titans have combined with Emrakul to create an unhappy middle space; things costing between 6 and 15 don't really seem worth it.
Remember that this is a "flavor first" set. The article that spoiled the dragon explained that dragons in this kind of setting are practically unheard of...almost impossible. I bet you 100-1 that the rarity isn't based on ANYTHING except flavor.
No. Rarity isn't based on flavor. If it were, we wouldn't have rare Legends.
I don't think this is quite it. Even before Titans came along, expensive creatures (CMC>=6) tended to be unplayable, with a few exceptions. With Titans, they pushed the power level of 6-drops to the point where they were constructed-viable.
In other words, if Titans didn't exist, people still wouldn't play cards like this in Standard. Instead, they just wouldn't play 6+ drops.
I don't think that's necessarily true. Yes, those playable 7+ are few and far between (i remember angel of despair) and it seems most combined either strong etb effects, or relieve to removal, or both. The problem is, I think there have been several 7+ creatures that could have been playable without the titans. The titans are simply so aggressively costed that nothing beneath 8 mana can really compare strength-wise, and that's because the titans themselves really should have cost 8 mana at least in all colors besides possibly green. Most of the other colors have no business with such an aggressively costed finisher. Blue especially. Blue doesn't get 6/6s for 6, especially not with crippling perks on top of it. Black doesn't either, and yet it has 10 power for 6. So it really doesn't matter if any seven drops are well costed or not, because unless they are even more game winning then a titan, why bother? Unfortunately, it also works both ways. There's often not much of a reason to play 5 cost creatures, either, because they are taking up valuable deck slots, and really, if you're spending 5 you may as well spend one more and get a titan.
I think this dragon could have been playable as one or two of, since it is quite a beater, and can switch the gamestate around superfast. But really not as fast as a titan at 1 less.
Remember that this is a "flavor first" set. The article that spoiled the dragon explained that dragons in this kind of setting are practically unheard of...almost impossible. I bet you 100-1 that the rarity isn't based on ANYTHING except flavor.
This sounds right, but they still should've played up more of a "mythic" background for the set's (and maybe the world's) single Dragon. Its ability, and flavor text, could have reflected that getting a glimpse of it was a rare and usually fatal event.
Bringing mythic rares back to their original status as giant flavor bombs was the right move by R&D. Would you have preferred Army of the Damned were rare and Snapcaster Mage were mythic instead? Everyone should have access to strong color staples like Snapcaster and the Titans, while cards like the Ultimatums, legendary overlords, etc. should be mythic.
If Wizards wanted to roll back the power creep then why did they reprint the titans? I'm glad we haven't had any real money mythics spoiled yet (with the exception of the ever-inflated planeswalkers) but that doesn't mean there aren't insane ones waiting in the depths of preview week 4.
I agree with the flashy thematically flavored part of your post but they shouldn't neccesairly be giant, but they should be powerful. They should be playable in a lot of decks and i'm not asking for them to be 100$ bills waiting to be opened, i absolutely hate that the mythic rarity forces the prices of the cards through the roof. But a mythic rare should be like a 5$ value at minimum, there can be the chase rares and all of that that are ridiculously expensive pieces of cardboard but when you open a mythic you should always be excited and not thinking damn another crappy card.
I don't think this is quite it. Even before Titans came along, expensive creatures (CMC>=6) tended to be unplayable, with a few exceptions. With Titans, they pushed the power level of 6-drops to the point where they were constructed-viable.
In other words, if Titans didn't exist, people still wouldn't play cards like this in Standard. Instead, they just wouldn't play 6+ drops.
Thank you, thank you for bringing this up. If a 6+ drop would see play without the titans, chances are, it still will. Consecrated Sphinx and Wurmcoil Engine are good examples of this. However, other 6+ drops that have quirky effects, or are more 'interesting', generally would be ignored in favor of cheaper cards anyways. Granted, the Titans make the choice of a finisher a bit easier, since you don't have to consider the other 6 drop you probably wouldn't play anyways, but they really don't restrict deck design as much as people like to say they do.
The super, super efficient Titans have combined with Emrakul
I saw this comment and I just can't unsee the 5 titans teaming up and transforming into Emrakul like the Power Rangers Megazord.
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When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
I love mythics like these. They're very powerful, but not so much that they cost over $90. Staple cards should be rares and uncommons, not mythics. Planeswalkers should be rares, not mythics.
I love mythics like these. They're very powerful, but not so much that they cost over $90. Staple cards should be rares and uncommons, not mythics. Planeswalkers should be rares, not mythics.
No, Planeswalkers SHOULD be mythics. They're "the most powerful beings in the multiverse" and are cross story characters that provide very powerful, often game changing abilities and often times demand that decks be built around them in order to tap their full potential. Walkers are a 1 in a billion shot and are special. If nothing else, Walkers should be and remain to be mythic.
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature โ Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
It's better that way than printing more Jaces. Go go powerful rares and uncommons.
Sorry tex, but we're strangling powercreep in its crib before it can grow up, fail some art classes, then completely devastate standard (again).
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature โ Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
It's called the roller coaster that is magic. Besides, every time we have a "underpowered crap set" suddenly it becomes the "OMG BROKEN" one the next year.
Time Spiral was filled with "too many mechanics and catered to old guys"
Lorwyn was called "gimmicky and janky and planeswalkers won't see play"
Shards was "the worst set ever" and full of "three color cards that won't see play, and had nothing to contribute to Standard"
Zen "doesn't give us anything but fetches and contributes nothing to Standard"
Scars "Is no where near what the original Mirrodin was and contributes nothing to Standard"
It's truly laughable that we see this every fall, and people completely forget about saying how they hate a set so much yet go completely bonkers when a pro shows them to think outside the box. For all we know, freaking warewolves will be everywhere in 6 months.
I agree with the flashy thematically flavored part of your post but they shouldn't neccesairly be giant, but they should be powerful. They should be playable in a lot of decks and i'm not asking for them to be 100$ bills waiting to be opened, i absolutely hate that the mythic rarity forces the prices of the cards through the roof. But a mythic rare should be like a 5$ value at minimum, there can be the chase rares and all of that that are ridiculously expensive pieces of cardboard but when you open a mythic you should always be excited and not thinking damn another crappy card.
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BWUErtai, the CorruptedBWU
This. Back when I first started playing 1 mana per power/toughness was a relatively decent thing, add another point to the cmc for abilities and things were balanced... that's why cards like serra angel were amazing and cards such as Shivan Dragon would terrorize our casual group... they were super mana efficient. Players now-a-days seem to expect to get handed creatures that are amazingly mana efficent and overpowered compared to the cards of old.
That said I am a big fan of the dragon flavor wise, look at it's flavor text of awesome:
"If it comes for you, die boldly or die swiftly -- for die you will."
Perfectly conveys the card.
GWUPhelddagrif----------------GWRhys, the Redeemed----------UBRLord of Tresserhorn--------XKozilek, Butcher of Truth
WUBRGProgenitus---------------BGWKarador, Ghost Chieftain---URGIntet, the Dreamer---------RGWort, the Raidmother
BGSavra-----------------------RGMarhault Elsdragon----------UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir------UWHanna, Ship's Navigator
BSkithiryx the Blight Dragon--RWUZedruu the Greathearted----BRelentless Rats------------BRUNicol Bolas
This isn't really true all of the time. M12 prerelease I played u/w flyers with 2 gideons avengers, beat the guy with Gideon, Garruk, and Destiny. Just sayin.
On topic, I like them both.If you try hard enough you can cast Emrakul and win no problem. Of course, back when everybody was playing jund, I was playing Warp World and winning on turn 3-4, so my opinion may be biased towards big spells.
because broodmate dragon and cruel ultimatum are 2-drops.
Gee, a better idea might have been to never make the mythic rarity.
=/
Don't tell that to maro, tho
I did say there were a few exceptions. Broodmate Dragon, in a sense a proto-Titan, was one of them. Still, he was generally a 1-of.
Cruel Ultimatum isn't a creature.
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Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Not everyone thinks the same as you. Some people love their big, splashy, tournament unplayable, fun bomb diggitys, and they deserve to have some Mythic cards made for them as well.
To be fair , Broodmate and Cruel Ultimatum were a tiny little bit mana demanding in colors though.
There's always been decks with 6+ converted mana cost very competitive in standard , even not including ramp decks honestly. I only played standard since Ravnica but there's always seemed to be decks with large guys , it just depends on the meta of course a card like Primeval Titan wouldn't be very goo in a lot of other formats.
And to your defense, people moaned about how some of those titans wouldn't see play when they were spoiled.
Same can be said for Broodmate and Cruel Ultimatum. I believe "unplayable" was the word for CA.
Remember that this is a "flavor first" set. The article that spoiled the dragon explained that dragons in this kind of setting are practically unheard of...almost impossible. I bet you 100-1 that the rarity isn't based on ANYTHING except flavor.
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I'm sort of unclear on how they'll do it for the format they just created (Modern). My friend made the point that "If you're going to ramp, why would you work towards things other than Emrakul?"
The super, super efficient Titans have combined with Emrakul to create an unhappy middle space; things costing between 6 and 15 don't really seem worth it.
No. Rarity isn't based on flavor. If it were, we wouldn't have rare Legends.
This card's design makes it mythic.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
I don't think that's necessarily true. Yes, those playable 7+ are few and far between (i remember angel of despair) and it seems most combined either strong etb effects, or relieve to removal, or both. The problem is, I think there have been several 7+ creatures that could have been playable without the titans. The titans are simply so aggressively costed that nothing beneath 8 mana can really compare strength-wise, and that's because the titans themselves really should have cost 8 mana at least in all colors besides possibly green. Most of the other colors have no business with such an aggressively costed finisher. Blue especially. Blue doesn't get 6/6s for 6, especially not with crippling perks on top of it. Black doesn't either, and yet it has 10 power for 6. So it really doesn't matter if any seven drops are well costed or not, because unless they are even more game winning then a titan, why bother? Unfortunately, it also works both ways. There's often not much of a reason to play 5 cost creatures, either, because they are taking up valuable deck slots, and really, if you're spending 5 you may as well spend one more and get a titan.
I think this dragon could have been playable as one or two of, since it is quite a beater, and can switch the gamestate around superfast. But really not as fast as a titan at 1 less.
This sounds right, but they still should've played up more of a "mythic" background for the set's (and maybe the world's) single Dragon. Its ability, and flavor text, could have reflected that getting a glimpse of it was a rare and usually fatal event.
Bringing mythic rares back to their original status as giant flavor bombs was the right move by R&D. Would you have preferred Army of the Damned were rare and Snapcaster Mage were mythic instead? Everyone should have access to strong color staples like Snapcaster and the Titans, while cards like the Ultimatums, legendary overlords, etc. should be mythic.
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Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
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Thank you, thank you for bringing this up. If a 6+ drop would see play without the titans, chances are, it still will. Consecrated Sphinx and Wurmcoil Engine are good examples of this. However, other 6+ drops that have quirky effects, or are more 'interesting', generally would be ignored in favor of cheaper cards anyways. Granted, the Titans make the choice of a finisher a bit easier, since you don't have to consider the other 6 drop you probably wouldn't play anyways, but they really don't restrict deck design as much as people like to say they do.
I saw this comment and I just can't unsee the 5 titans teaming up and transforming into Emrakul like the Power Rangers Megazord.
Legendary Creature โ Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
No, Planeswalkers SHOULD be mythics. They're "the most powerful beings in the multiverse" and are cross story characters that provide very powerful, often game changing abilities and often times demand that decks be built around them in order to tap their full potential. Walkers are a 1 in a billion shot and are special. If nothing else, Walkers should be and remain to be mythic.
Legendary Creature โ Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
I'd say, the white and black praetors, and possibly Phyrexian Injestor.
Sorry tex, but we're strangling powercreep in its crib before it can grow up, fail some art classes, then completely devastate standard (again).
Legendary Creature โ Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Time Spiral was filled with "too many mechanics and catered to old guys"
Lorwyn was called "gimmicky and janky and planeswalkers won't see play"
Shards was "the worst set ever" and full of "three color cards that won't see play, and had nothing to contribute to Standard"
Zen "doesn't give us anything but fetches and contributes nothing to Standard"
Scars "Is no where near what the original Mirrodin was and contributes nothing to Standard"
It's truly laughable that we see this every fall, and people completely forget about saying how they hate a set so much yet go completely bonkers when a pro shows them to think outside the box. For all we know, freaking warewolves will be everywhere in 6 months.