Heck, I have a friend that prints his own Magic cards from internet scans to play casual, and I'm beginning to realize just how right he is!
ehehe, and I thought our group was the only one.
Wizards has done some copyright throwing around to try to stop people from doing this lately. I've got a color printer with laminated paper, and in the end, holy hell, I decided that even the ink packages cost too much, and we all gave up. But we did a fair bit of it a few years ago.
The other big thing in the video games vs. Magic argument is:
Alot of people, like me, try to find 1-2 games and play them for months, even years. Buying a copy of Oblivion, for example, costs someone $50 or something, and he can get hours and hours of pleasure out of it. Same goes for World of Warcraft, except you pay $10 a month for it, which less than 3 packs of Magic a month.
Obviously there is the cost of the computer, and the internet connection, but you'll be paying for those regardless, because they are necessary parts of life in the 21st century.
So you have to ask yourself, why should I dump $200+ a month into Magic when I can dump $50 into a game once, and play it for several months if it's interesting enough?
Magic faces some serious competition from the field of electronic entertainment. They're just lucky the average Magic player is so lost within his little power fantasy that he fails to realize just how much he's paying to play with what's basically little pieces of cardboard with cool art.
Agreed on that last part there. Which is why it's so fun to confuse other competitive players with decks that are... GASP... DIFFERENT!
An example of that is a deck a friend of mine designed with my help and the help of two others. It was Faeries... with no Bitterblossoms. Why would someone ever do that? Well it's because everyone expected it... he won so many games with that thing because when the Mistbind tapped all their lands it left them entirely open for a finisher like Profane command.
When people play nothing but competitive magic they get into this mind set where they NEED to spend money to win or they NEED to play certain cards. I like to use that to my advantage and I know so many others who do as well. When they see you play something, and they have an expectation of what is in the deck and what it will do... they prepare for it. When what they thought would happen doesn't, they are caught off guard and than real skill comes into play. It's a good test for players who compete all the time... the good ones usually have the senses to recover, the net deckers and money spenders usually can't.
Now to be fair I have not been playing in competitive tournaments since Time spiral rotated, so I'm not too familiar with the current standard... but the atmosphere in competitive will never really change.
This snake is a really cool card... however I would rather have a pair of Birds to be honest. Less likely I'll loose both of them and slightly more reliable as well as you don't need another card coming into play to trigger them.
So you have to ask yourself, why should I dump $200+ a month into Magic when I can dump $50 into a game once, and play it for several months if it's interesting enough?
I used to spend that much on Magic until I realized that you really don't need too in order to win. You really just need a decent deck that you're comfortable with. Yeah you'll loose some... but it's a game and is supposed to be fun... if you're spending 200+ a month just to win, is that really fun anymore? The saddest part is that so many people fall into these traps... like this snake... and don't know how to get around it.
someone needs to get in here to post the shoop of the cobra commander involving Kanye...
BTW-What vintage decks would shell out spots for this guy? Yeah, zoo might run him, and fish using G, who else? I don't think ichorid or any workshop based decks care about this guy very much.
EDIT-My point is...this guy will not see play in every deck ever as the op suggested. He is unlikely to even be played in every standard deck in my opinion and if he is, then I believe that the number of viable archetypes will sink greatly probably resulting in the banhammer for BBE and Cobra Commander.
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"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
someone needs to get in here to post the shoop of the cobra commander involving Kanye...
BTW-What vintage decks would shell out spots for this guy? Yeah, zoo might run him, and fish using G, who else? I don't think ichorid or any workshop based decks care about this guy very much.
Any Null Rod deck running G/W dudes, like the recently popular G/W Fish deck posted by Steven Mennendian...
Case in point: I talked to the owner of a card store today, who told me that he's opened 5 boxes of M10 recently looking for singles to sell, and he has YET to open a Baneslayer.
sounds like he has a bunch of "B" printing boxes.
There are 2 printings "A" printing and "B" printing. "B" does not have BS angel in it. for more info check out the thread on the wizards black book or his youtube video on m10
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Current Fallen Angel (Anson Maddocks art) Count:449!!!
I mentioned fish in my post. And yeah, this guy is very nice in G/W fish.
He is vintage playable....he is not the second of coming of Yawgmoth's Will
Sure, but very few things are. My point was that it will be playable in every format, and overplayed in Standard, Extended, and possibly Legacy. Just the fact that a staple card in Standard will be *playable* in a Vintage archetype says something.
Magic is in a lot of trouble, let's just put it that way. But then again, so is everything right now. They're just trying to make a profit off what's left of the game, simple as that.
Lotus Cobra needs a deck built around it to be really effective.
Without Lotus Cobra you can still get good mana accel:
T1 Land+BoP/Llanowar Elves = 2 mana
T2 Land +BoP/Llanowar Elves = 4 mana total
T3 Land + Harrow+BoP/Llanowar Elves = 6 mana
Now in order for Lotus Cobra to get better, you need fetchlands, in which case it can get up to 8 Mana that must use then and there, If you are not using Fetchland River Boa is a better use as it can dodge removal
Magic is in a lot of trouble, let's just put it that way. But then again, so is everything right now. They're just trying to make a profit off what's left of the game, simple as that.
Is this due to the videogame factor? More people are choosing videogames over Magic?
Lotus Cobra needs a deck built around it to be really effective.
....
Now in order for Lotus Cobra to get better, you need fetchlands, in which case it can get up to 8 Mana that must use then and there,
And? ALL it needs to ramp horrifically is fetchlands.
Everyones is going to be playing fetchlands, anyway. People use them just for deck thinning in even the silliest scenarios. Every deck is going to already have the fetches. What is so broken about this cobra is that you don't need to build around it.
You can pull off degenerate things like T3 nicol bolas or violent ultimatum without having to use a full-out ramp deck, just some lotus cobras & birds of paradises on top of your normal fetchlands. Thats 8 nonland slots only.
I think it's a combination of video games over Magic, but also of house payments, car payments, utilities payments, groceries, and everything else over Magic. Magic takes a huge backseat to someone who's been laid off, or had their hours cut, or taken a pay cut to keep their job, or is married to such a person, or other such follies of a recession. Basically, it's trying to get the player base that remains to buy boxes instead of singles or lesser numbers of packs, IMO, thus getting Wizards the profit on top of Jimmy Storeowner's mass openings for singles.
"Crovax Connections" does sound like a friendly corner store run by your local Ascendant Lord
I bet we have a case of Jon Finkel sleeping with the girl, then never calling her again and she going bat #%^% crazy and writing this article case closed.
First PTQ top 8 6/13/09(1st) Second PTQ top 8 10/7/09(5th) Second at national Qualifier 5/15/10
Third PTQ top 8 2/12/11 (2nd)
Second at Alberta 2011's
Fourth PTQ top 8 3/17/12(8th)
GP Vancouver 2012 (18th)
Sure, but very few things are. My point was that it will be playable in every format, and overplayed in Standard, Extended, and possibly Legacy. Just the fact that a staple card in Standard will be *playable* in a Vintage archetype says something.
We can't really be sure of that yet.
When people first saw Maralen they went crazy for her and a play set was netting upwards of 50 dollars. We saw how that worked out.
This snake is good, but in all seriousness I highly doubt he'll have the effect that you think he will. We really don't know if he will be a staple card or if just a single deck ends up running him. Odds are a couple decks will, like Bitterblossom was used in a couple decks, but this guy just seems way to fragile. That 2/1 body just won't dodge anything at all and this guy LITERALLY dies to every piece of removal I can think of aside from the ones that can't target green creatures. Now normally i don't use that as an argument against a creature... but personally I'm not going to spend 35 dollars for a card that get's killed by everything.
Mtg-fan. Facepalm 1. There is this thing called a recession, and while it is getting better, it still puts companies in a rut. Stop the whinning.
Squeezing your customers doesn't get you rich, it gets you out of business.
WotC isn't selling oil. They abuse their userbase, and its gone in an instant.
if I was a little kid who looked at MTG, then looked at YGO and realized MTG would set me back 10x as much lunch money to play, I'd go for YGO. Or I'd subscribe to WoW, or go outside and get a girlfriend and play football.
When people first saw Maralen they went crazy for her and a play set was netting upwards of 50 dollars. We saw how that worked out.
This snake is good, but in all seriousness I highly doubt he'll have the effect that you think he will. We really don't know if he will be a staple card or if just a single deck ends up running him. Odds are a couple decks will, like Bitterblossom was used in a couple decks, but this guy just seems way to fragile. That 2/1 body just won't dodge anything at all and this guy LITERALLY dies to every piece of removal I can think of aside from the ones that can't target green creatures. Now normally i don't use that as an argument against a creature... but personally I'm not going to spend 35 dollars for a card that get's killed by everything.
yes, it gets killed by any removal like any other mana creatures. but the thing is, if u don't remove it the moment it drops, it becomes disastrous by the following turn. it's not so much with noble or bird since they don't mana accel this much.
with cobra, t3 bbe or baneslayer already put you up way far ahead. as for god hand, dropping identity crisis t3 is better than ultimatum.
That 2/1 body just won't dodge anything at all and this guy LITERALLY dies to every piece of removal I can think of aside from the ones that can't target green creatures. Now normally i don't use that as an argument against a creature... but personally I'm not going to spend 35 dollars for a card that get's killed by everything.
The problem with the argument is that he's a 2/1 for 1G at his very worst.
If your opponent has to drop his only terminate on a crippled grizzly bears, he's in tough shape. Forcing a 1 for 1 at the very least. The "he dies to path" argument really only meant anything against the fatties; losing a Lortho's the Freshmaker to a 1 cmc instant is game destroying, whereas losing your llanowar elves to a path to exile, well, it doesn't even change your game.
Squeezing your customers doesn't get you rich, it gets you out of business.
WotC isn't selling oil. They abuse their userbase, and its gone in an instant.
if I was a little kid who looked at MTG, then looked at YGO and realized MTG would set me back 10x as much lunch money to play, I'd go for YGO. Or I'd subscribe to WoW, or go outside and get a girlfriend and play football.
Wizards isn't the one setting the prices. If you have a real problem with the prices than complain to your game store owner who is setting the prices of the cards in his/her shop or the person on Ebay setting the prices. Wizards makes no real money from the secondary market. If you don't want to spend 35 dollars for a card... than don't. Play a deck that doesn't require it to run.
At your second point, again... you don't need to spend more than a few dollars to play magic. There are so many ways to play and so many decks that can win games that it isn't even funny.
Edit: At the last two posters. Yes I know what you mean... 1 for 1 with this thing will give the player of the snake an advantage, but hey that's what good cards do. This is a good card... I won't deny that. However I think it is way to early to determine it's actual impact on competitive magic. It will see play, and probably a lot of it for a while simply because of the hype for it, but who knows how it will really play out? I mean seriously... someone could do what everyone is saying with the ramp than have the big finisher O-ringed or Terminated when it comes into play and than the snake player is left top decking the rest of the game because their big finisher was just taken out thanks to them being over eager. It happens a lot actually lol.
So how long before they print this @ Mythic rarity:
Bird of Majestic Visions1U
Creature - Bird
Flying
When Bird of Majestic Visions comes into play, draw 3 cards.
2/1
You are highly mistaken. Wizards would never print that card. They would give it flash. Maybe shroud.
On a serious note:
For those of you complaining about the snake's frailty. He isn't going to be played as a super end all combo card that wins the game against everything. He is going to be played as a staple card in a large amount of decks.
What I see happening with him more often than not is that you do something like play a garruk/harrow, then play him. Now your opponent has their turn. They can use removal to kill your snake. Now you have a garruk or whatever, and probably a lot of other one and two drops that went their turn without getting touched because your opponent is worried you are going to infite mana them in the face next turn and they would rather you not do that. So now they may end up being forced to do something like maelstrom pulse a 2/1 2 drop that came out as a side thought to garruk/harrow.
This isn't even a special scenario. This is just a regular green/black green/white etc. deck doing what it is already going to be doing, just better. That is why this card will be played. Not because it is a huge bomb, but because it fits into a the perfect slot for the kind of deck that plays it. That is why people are complaining about its rarity.
In some ways It's similar to making lighting bolt a mythic. sure you can win games using a red deck that doesn't have lighting bolt. And I would definitely have to come up with some perfect hands for lighting bolt to turn 3 win me the game. But I am still never going to run a deck that produces red mana without throwing in 4 lighting bolts. They perform a task that I need. They are a UTILITY CARD. And sure, if they cost $30 a piece then a lot of people would probably end up running magma sprays or something to fill their 1 slot, but they would, on average, lose to people who are willing to pay the 120 for their playset of (hypothetical) mythic rare lightning bolts.
You only get a T3 Nicol Bolas or a T3 Violent Ultimatum IF you get a god hand.
Thats really not a god hand. You don't need to stack 7 cards to ramp 8, even.
And with even only a few cards, using a mostly dead hand, you get crazy results. Lets say that in the 'mediocre hand', you draw 2x fetchs, 2x forests, cobra, bop, and fatty:
T1: forest, bop
T2: Cobra, fetchland (dont sac)
T3: fetchland (+1), sac both (+2), tap lands & bop (+4)
Yeah, that just floated 7 colored mana.
See, the thing about this cobra is that we will be seeing 6-8 CMC turn 3 on the majority of your games. It will be reliable, which is a scary concept. Theres no god hands involved, no "2 card combos" needed.
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
ehehe, and I thought our group was the only one.
Wizards has done some copyright throwing around to try to stop people from doing this lately. I've got a color printer with laminated paper, and in the end, holy hell, I decided that even the ink packages cost too much, and we all gave up. But we did a fair bit of it a few years ago.
Alot of people, like me, try to find 1-2 games and play them for months, even years. Buying a copy of Oblivion, for example, costs someone $50 or something, and he can get hours and hours of pleasure out of it. Same goes for World of Warcraft, except you pay $10 a month for it, which less than 3 packs of Magic a month.
Obviously there is the cost of the computer, and the internet connection, but you'll be paying for those regardless, because they are necessary parts of life in the 21st century.
So you have to ask yourself, why should I dump $200+ a month into Magic when I can dump $50 into a game once, and play it for several months if it's interesting enough?
Agreed on that last part there. Which is why it's so fun to confuse other competitive players with decks that are... GASP... DIFFERENT!
An example of that is a deck a friend of mine designed with my help and the help of two others. It was Faeries... with no Bitterblossoms. Why would someone ever do that? Well it's because everyone expected it... he won so many games with that thing because when the Mistbind tapped all their lands it left them entirely open for a finisher like Profane command.
When people play nothing but competitive magic they get into this mind set where they NEED to spend money to win or they NEED to play certain cards. I like to use that to my advantage and I know so many others who do as well. When they see you play something, and they have an expectation of what is in the deck and what it will do... they prepare for it. When what they thought would happen doesn't, they are caught off guard and than real skill comes into play. It's a good test for players who compete all the time... the good ones usually have the senses to recover, the net deckers and money spenders usually can't.
Now to be fair I have not been playing in competitive tournaments since Time spiral rotated, so I'm not too familiar with the current standard... but the atmosphere in competitive will never really change.
This snake is a really cool card... however I would rather have a pair of Birds to be honest. Less likely I'll loose both of them and slightly more reliable as well as you don't need another card coming into play to trigger them.
I used to spend that much on Magic until I realized that you really don't need too in order to win. You really just need a decent deck that you're comfortable with. Yeah you'll loose some... but it's a game and is supposed to be fun... if you're spending 200+ a month just to win, is that really fun anymore? The saddest part is that so many people fall into these traps... like this snake... and don't know how to get around it.
RB Olivia Voldaren RB
GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB
BWR Queen Marchesa BWR
RW Anya, Merciless Angel RW
UW Bruna, Light of Alabaster UW
UB Wydwen, The Biting Gale UB
GU Momir Vig, simic visionary GU
WG Karametra, God of Harvests WG
WUBSydri, Galvanic GeniusWUB
BTW-What vintage decks would shell out spots for this guy? Yeah, zoo might run him, and fish using G, who else? I don't think ichorid or any workshop based decks care about this guy very much.
EDIT-My point is...this guy will not see play in every deck ever as the op suggested. He is unlikely to even be played in every standard deck in my opinion and if he is, then I believe that the number of viable archetypes will sink greatly probably resulting in the banhammer for BBE and Cobra Commander.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Any Null Rod deck running G/W dudes, like the recently popular G/W Fish deck posted by Steven Mennendian...
sounds like he has a bunch of "B" printing boxes.
There are 2 printings "A" printing and "B" printing. "B" does not have BS angel in it. for more info check out the thread on the wizards black book or his youtube video on m10
He is vintage playable....he is not the second of coming of Yawgmoth's Will
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Sure, but very few things are. My point was that it will be playable in every format, and overplayed in Standard, Extended, and possibly Legacy. Just the fact that a staple card in Standard will be *playable* in a Vintage archetype says something.
.
Without Lotus Cobra you can still get good mana accel:
T1 Land+BoP/Llanowar Elves = 2 mana
T2 Land +BoP/Llanowar Elves = 4 mana total
T3 Land + Harrow+BoP/Llanowar Elves = 6 mana
Now in order for Lotus Cobra to get better, you need fetchlands, in which case it can get up to 8 Mana that must use then and there, If you are not using Fetchland River Boa is a better use as it can dodge removal
Is this due to the videogame factor? More people are choosing videogames over Magic?
And?
ALL it needs to ramp horrifically is fetchlands.
Everyones is going to be playing fetchlands, anyway. People use them just for deck thinning in even the silliest scenarios. Every deck is going to already have the fetches. What is so broken about this cobra is that you don't need to build around it.
You can pull off degenerate things like T3 nicol bolas or violent ultimatum without having to use a full-out ramp deck, just some lotus cobras & birds of paradises on top of your normal fetchlands. Thats 8 nonland slots only.
First PTQ top 8 6/13/09(1st)
Second PTQ top 8 10/7/09(5th)
Second at national Qualifier 5/15/10
Third PTQ top 8 2/12/11 (2nd)
Second at Alberta 2011's
Fourth PTQ top 8 3/17/12(8th)
GP Vancouver 2012 (18th)
We can't really be sure of that yet.
When people first saw Maralen they went crazy for her and a play set was netting upwards of 50 dollars. We saw how that worked out.
This snake is good, but in all seriousness I highly doubt he'll have the effect that you think he will. We really don't know if he will be a staple card or if just a single deck ends up running him. Odds are a couple decks will, like Bitterblossom was used in a couple decks, but this guy just seems way to fragile. That 2/1 body just won't dodge anything at all and this guy LITERALLY dies to every piece of removal I can think of aside from the ones that can't target green creatures. Now normally i don't use that as an argument against a creature... but personally I'm not going to spend 35 dollars for a card that get's killed by everything.
RB Olivia Voldaren RB
GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB
BWR Queen Marchesa BWR
RW Anya, Merciless Angel RW
UW Bruna, Light of Alabaster UW
UB Wydwen, The Biting Gale UB
GU Momir Vig, simic visionary GU
WG Karametra, God of Harvests WG
WUBSydri, Galvanic GeniusWUB
Squeezing your customers doesn't get you rich, it gets you out of business.
WotC isn't selling oil. They abuse their userbase, and its gone in an instant.
if I was a little kid who looked at MTG, then looked at YGO and realized MTG would set me back 10x as much lunch money to play, I'd go for YGO. Or I'd subscribe to WoW, or go outside and get a girlfriend and play football.
You can do a T3 Terra Stomper without using Lotus Cobra and Fetchlands, assuming you get a god hand, and that only takes 4 non-land spots
yes, it gets killed by any removal like any other mana creatures. but the thing is, if u don't remove it the moment it drops, it becomes disastrous by the following turn. it's not so much with noble or bird since they don't mana accel this much.
with cobra, t3 bbe or baneslayer already put you up way far ahead. as for god hand, dropping identity crisis t3 is better than ultimatum.
Like anime? My AnimeList Profile: zero_99
You can find me on MODO ID: 07Ghost
The problem with the argument is that he's a 2/1 for 1G at his very worst.
If your opponent has to drop his only terminate on a crippled grizzly bears, he's in tough shape. Forcing a 1 for 1 at the very least. The "he dies to path" argument really only meant anything against the fatties; losing a Lortho's the Freshmaker to a 1 cmc instant is game destroying, whereas losing your llanowar elves to a path to exile, well, it doesn't even change your game.
Wizards isn't the one setting the prices. If you have a real problem with the prices than complain to your game store owner who is setting the prices of the cards in his/her shop or the person on Ebay setting the prices. Wizards makes no real money from the secondary market. If you don't want to spend 35 dollars for a card... than don't. Play a deck that doesn't require it to run.
At your second point, again... you don't need to spend more than a few dollars to play magic. There are so many ways to play and so many decks that can win games that it isn't even funny.
Edit: At the last two posters. Yes I know what you mean... 1 for 1 with this thing will give the player of the snake an advantage, but hey that's what good cards do. This is a good card... I won't deny that. However I think it is way to early to determine it's actual impact on competitive magic. It will see play, and probably a lot of it for a while simply because of the hype for it, but who knows how it will really play out? I mean seriously... someone could do what everyone is saying with the ramp than have the big finisher O-ringed or Terminated when it comes into play and than the snake player is left top decking the rest of the game because their big finisher was just taken out thanks to them being over eager. It happens a lot actually lol.
RB Olivia Voldaren RB
GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB
BWR Queen Marchesa BWR
RW Anya, Merciless Angel RW
UW Bruna, Light of Alabaster UW
UB Wydwen, The Biting Gale UB
GU Momir Vig, simic visionary GU
WG Karametra, God of Harvests WG
WUBSydri, Galvanic GeniusWUB
You are highly mistaken. Wizards would never print that card. They would give it flash. Maybe shroud.
On a serious note:
For those of you complaining about the snake's frailty. He isn't going to be played as a super end all combo card that wins the game against everything. He is going to be played as a staple card in a large amount of decks.
What I see happening with him more often than not is that you do something like play a garruk/harrow, then play him. Now your opponent has their turn. They can use removal to kill your snake. Now you have a garruk or whatever, and probably a lot of other one and two drops that went their turn without getting touched because your opponent is worried you are going to infite mana them in the face next turn and they would rather you not do that. So now they may end up being forced to do something like maelstrom pulse a 2/1 2 drop that came out as a side thought to garruk/harrow.
This isn't even a special scenario. This is just a regular green/black green/white etc. deck doing what it is already going to be doing, just better. That is why this card will be played. Not because it is a huge bomb, but because it fits into a the perfect slot for the kind of deck that plays it. That is why people are complaining about its rarity.
In some ways It's similar to making lighting bolt a mythic. sure you can win games using a red deck that doesn't have lighting bolt. And I would definitely have to come up with some perfect hands for lighting bolt to turn 3 win me the game. But I am still never going to run a deck that produces red mana without throwing in 4 lighting bolts. They perform a task that I need. They are a UTILITY CARD. And sure, if they cost $30 a piece then a lot of people would probably end up running magma sprays or something to fill their 1 slot, but they would, on average, lose to people who are willing to pay the 120 for their playset of (hypothetical) mythic rare lightning bolts.
Are you serious? Have you not seen the prices of staple YGO cards?
Thats really not a god hand. You don't need to stack 7 cards to ramp 8, even.
And with even only a few cards, using a mostly dead hand, you get crazy results. Lets say that in the 'mediocre hand', you draw 2x fetchs, 2x forests, cobra, bop, and fatty:
T1: forest, bop
T2: Cobra, fetchland (dont sac)
T3: fetchland (+1), sac both (+2), tap lands & bop (+4)
Yeah, that just floated 7 colored mana.
See, the thing about this cobra is that we will be seeing 6-8 CMC turn 3 on the majority of your games. It will be reliable, which is a scary concept. Theres no god hands involved, no "2 card combos" needed.