I agree with the first half, Battlegrace Angel serves a very similar function and impacts the board the same turn she comes down. Battlegrace is a better team-player, Baneslayer is a better solo-act. They are overall similar in power level, so this never should have been a surprise with regard to power level.
Also, what people forget about Exalted Angel is that she eats up Turns 3 AND 4 to cast, and she spends a turn as a 2/2.
Exalted attacks 2 turns earlier. End of Story. If you don't see that as relevant, you need to play more standard. Exalted Angel > Baneslayer Angel > Battlegrace Angel. It will see play, but it won't break the format...
definitely agree with Exalted Angel > Baneslayer Angel. especially if you look at outside standard.
In legacy exalted can definitely attack turn 2 (quite reasonably you dont need some ultra good hand i regularly do it with my white stax deck). Baneslayer is more powerful on a ability to CC ratio but outside standard its possibly too high CC to hard cast unlike exalted and too small to use in reanime deck. Outside standard by turn 5-6 you're already have a decent idea on the board position. If you're already winning it'll let you win more (if there is such a thing) and if you're losing I cant see it winning for you.
Don't say this card is strictly better than Serra Angel. That doesn't die to Royal Assassin or Assassinate.
But seriously, this card is overpowered. A 5/5 Flyer for five would long have been considered overcosted, and with the first strike, lifelink and, albeit usually irrelevant, protections, this card is just nuts. Be that as it may however, in a format with Path to Exile and fast creature decks, this card may not really have a place. It can easily be chump-blocked by Faerie or Spirit tokens every turn. Ultimately, however good this card is, it's just not the right card for the current metagame, and something with better evasion, trample, shroud, protection or regeneration will likely be played instead. However, if a new deck emerges that needs a white finisher, I can't think of a better one than this.
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The secret truth is that removal dies to creatures.
Yeah, it's like R&D wanted to create see how absurdly good a creature would have to be to impress the jaded throngs of the PT mentality during rumor season.
This thing is bonkers good. But... I'm also not on the PT.
With the current focus on removal (white=path, Black=terror, term, have of blacks cards, Red=BURN!, Blue=Bounce, and Green=...ok, well there still isn't good green removal besides just outpumping them), this card isn't too bad. Had it been printed in other sets, it might have been a little bit overpowered, but the lack of shroud/regenerate/somewaytocomeback really does hurt big creatures right now.
Really, what "big" creatures see play these days.
Colossus- Has prot black, can pump bigger then red and green can do damage. Still gets bounced and pathed but nor much avoides those.
Broodmate- There are two of them. They aren't immune to anything, but it takes two cards to kill them outright.
SotSW- Has protection from a couple things and flying to avoid most of greens smashers.
Mistbind Clique- Just flying, but they are played for the ability, not the body.
Uril- Shroud
Those are the most played "big" guys and we can see why. All of them can avoid some of the most popular removal in one way or another (MC still taps your mana for removal).
Don't get me wrong, this Angel is poweful, and I'm sure it will see play, but Goyf was great becuase he hit on turn 2, and by the time they drew or got the mana for removal, he has done his damage and they invested more cards and mana to kill him then you took to cast him. This hits on turn 5 (assumeing no accel from white. Maybe 4 if its W/G) meaning they will see atleast 1/6th their deck, and probably have the mana for a removal spell. Is it reason not to play the angel? Not at all. It at very least will force removal out of them that would go elsewhere, but becuase of the current meta of heavy removal, it won't rule games.
Its good, but I think the Protection clause gives the illusion that it is better that actually is. Its not like its Pro: Black and Pro: Red. Protection from Dragons and Demons wont be relevant most of the time.
With the current focus on removal (white=path, Black=terror, term, have of blacks cards, Red=BURN!, Blue=Bounce, and Green=...ok, well there still isn't good green removal besides just outpumping them), this card isn't too bad. Had it been printed in other sets, it might have been a little bit overpowered, but the lack of shroud/regenerate/somewaytocomeback really does hurt big creatures right now.
Really, what "big" creatures see play these days.
Colossus- Has prot black, can pump bigger then red and green can do damage. Still gets bounced and pathed but nor much avoides those.
Broodmate- There are two of them. They aren't immune to anything, but it takes two cards to kill them outright.
SotSW- Has protection from a couple things and flying to avoid most of greens smashers.
Mistbind Clique- Just flying, but they are played for the ability, not the body.
Uril- Shroud
Those are the most played "big" guys and we can see why. All of them can avoid some of the most popular removal in one way or another (MC still taps your mana for removal).
Don't get me wrong, this Angel is poweful, and I'm sure it will see play, but Goyf was great becuase he hit on turn 2, and by the time they drew or got the mana for removal, he has done his damage and they invested more cards and mana to kill him then you took to cast him. This hits on turn 5 (assumeing no accel from white. Maybe 4 if its W/G) meaning they will see atleast 1/6th their deck, and probably have the mana for a removal spell. Is it reason not to play the angel? Not at all. It at very least will force removal out of them that would go elsewhere, but becuase of the current meta of heavy removal, it won't rule games.
BUT it can't be double Nameless Inversioned. And we all know how often THAT happens...
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Well considering slide got HOSED along with the new rules so...yeah
Maybe you should figure out what it means first. Creature is an OBVIOUS power creep.
Dies to removal is NOT a valid argument. Same argument was brought up against goyf and what has happened to goyf? Played in every format able?
Goyf is a 2 drop creature that can be put into any deck, and it only costs 2 mana. It trades or 2 for 1's people who kill it in terms of mana or direct creature combat. The only removal faster than Goyf is Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile which is directly inferior to S2P, Spell Snare, and Daze. It is immune to burn, blocks Goblin Lackey all day long, kills every utility creature in every format in direct combat, and is only vulnerable to countermagic or direct spot removal.
The only creatures larger than Goyf that see any play whatsoever are grow-a-critters, Phyrexian Dreadnaught, or Tombstalker, and all of these *require* specific decks to be viable.
Baneslayer is also still inferior to Exalted Angel. A card that is weaker than an older card (but still playable) is not power creep. Slide did not get totaled because it can't damage on the stack RFG one of its creatures. Most of the creatures it plays are going to kill opponents creatures anyway or are chumps, and are well protected by the slide engine.
Yea the card is pretty flashy, yes it's strictly better then Serra Angel (but once again, which card isn't strictly better then serra angel?) but in the end, it still an ''expensive'' flyer that wont seen play because even for 5 you pay too much for something that's going to die to terror.
Remember Battlegrace Angel?Everybody was awestruck by who BORKEN! this card was, well this is the new Battlegrace Angel.
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I think Baneslayer Angle is above the curve for white and that it may be spoiled incorrectly, but I wouldn't be to surprised to see it printed as spoiled.
off-topic
Does anyone else find it funny that it can still die to our premiere Demon Dragon Malfegor?
I apologize for the length (I tend to need to follow my train of thought to the end before proceeding to the next, resulting in overly long posts, papers, and monologues in conversations) and for the copious amount of parentheses.
I think Baneslayer Angle is above the curve for white and that it may be spoiled incorrectly, but I wouldn't be to surprised to see it printed as spoiled.
off-topic
Does anyone else find it funny that it can still die to our premiere Demon Dragon Malfegor?
Are you referring to the sacrifice clause of his discard effect?
Are you referring to the sacrifice clause of his discard effect?
Yes, I just think it's ironic that the one creature with protection from Demons and Dragons, can still be killed by the one creature with both types in the type line.
I apologize for the length (I tend to need to follow my train of thought to the end before proceeding to the next, resulting in overly long posts, papers, and monologues in conversations) and for the copious amount of parentheses.
I see a lot of hypocrites around these forums lately.
People see cards like this and complain about power creep.
Those same people then go to the full spoiler threads and complain about how subpar this set is.
News flash: IT CAN'T BE BOTH.
The fact you can compare Baneslayer Angel to Battlegrace Angel - a card that sees minimal play in competitive Standard - at *all* (Baneslayer is better but that's not my point) indicates to me that it's just a nice powerful finisher for White control/midrange decks.
you could say this same thing about a bazillion cards good just in T2... Don't we remember kokushos, firemane angel, skeletal vampire...
At least this card is overrated because it can do something... Now think about sygg river guide that sells for a lot just cause a stupid article on wiz talked about it, or swans, that everybody buy because they all think they are pro! those are overrated cards for real.
those at least have johnny value. this is a straight up timmy-spike card. but its sad because timmy-spike won't do that well because its just now good for the current standard meta.
EVERYTHING dies to removal. That's the point of removal, you know? It removes things.
Of course, sometimes this argument is valid, sometimes it's not. It all depends on the efficiency of the creature. Baneslayer is a very efficient creature that must be answered immediately. Your opponent won't always be holding a removal spell, especially when you already have a deck full of good creatures that they're forced to use removal on.
^ What he said.
It's a VERY good creature. Will prolly see a lot of play.
What really gets my goat is that they printed the card as a $Mythic$.
I mean I'm not saying it's over the top format warping OMG we're gonna die, but clearly this will be a stable 4 of for most white decks (outside of soldiers tribal maybe). This is what they said they wouldn't do, and it's what they just keep on doing.
no... what they said they weren't going to do, is print utility cards as Mythic. And as near as I can tell by looking at the M10 spoiler they haven't.
Its good, but I think the Protection clause gives the illusion that it is better that actually is. Its not like its Pro: Black and Pro: Red. Protection from Dragons and Demons wont be relevant most of the time.
okay, so tell me... how often are people facing down Chameleon Colossus' in Standard these days? How about Broodmate Dragons? How about Prince of Thralls?
I can't speak for Standard as I don't know the format very well. But I do know that Baneslayer Angel will DEFINITELY be finding a home in the Elder Dragon Highlander communities where BOTH dragon's and demon's see considerable play, and where this particular Angel is right alongside Akroma, Angel of Wrath as far as being the most powerful Angel ever printed. But I would be willing to wager that with the presence of at least Broodmate Dragon and Chameleon Colossus in Standard that Baneslayer Angel will not be an unwelcome addition to the Standard card pools.
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Well, Baneslayer Angel isn't really that amazing. It's just power creepy. It really isn't much better than if it were just 5/5 flying, lifelink. First strike on a fat creature only prevents it from being gang blocked in limited. It's not like it's going to come up against any other 5 power fliers any time soon. The protection is almost totally irrelevant as well since pretty much any dragon it's ever going to fight, it would mow down with first strike anyway. It's just protection from dragon burn abilities.
Don't say this card is strictly better than Serra Angel. That doesn't die to Royal Assassin or Assassinate.
But seriously, this card is overpowered. A 5/5 Flyer for five would long have been considered overcosted, and with the first strike, lifelink and, albeit usually irrelevant, protections, this card is just nuts. Be that as it may however, in a format with Path to Exile and fast creature decks, this card may not really have a place. It can easily be chump-blocked by Faerie or Spirit tokens every turn. Ultimately, however good this card is, it's just not the right card for the current metagame, and something with better evasion, trample, shroud, protection or regeneration will likely be played instead. However, if a new deck emerges that needs a white finisher, I can't think of a better one than this.
I'm quoting you for two reasons:
1. This is exactly how everyone should view this card
2. Bah to another Kamahl
It's weak because it doesn't do anything when it's cast. It's hard to reliably gather five mana consistently, so by running this and other support cards just seems underwhelming in Bloobraid land. Four mana is "I win" mana(i.e. Bloodbraid Elf, Wilt-leaf, Ajani). This is just below the curve.
Exalted attacks 2 turns earlier. End of Story. If you don't see that as relevant, you need to play more standard. Exalted Angel > Baneslayer Angel > Battlegrace Angel. It will see play, but it won't break the format...
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In legacy exalted can definitely attack turn 2 (quite reasonably you dont need some ultra good hand i regularly do it with my white stax deck). Baneslayer is more powerful on a ability to CC ratio but outside standard its possibly too high CC to hard cast unlike exalted and too small to use in reanime deck. Outside standard by turn 5-6 you're already have a decent idea on the board position. If you're already winning it'll let you win more (if there is such a thing) and if you're losing I cant see it winning for you.
But seriously, this card is overpowered. A 5/5 Flyer for five would long have been considered overcosted, and with the first strike, lifelink and, albeit usually irrelevant, protections, this card is just nuts. Be that as it may however, in a format with Path to Exile and fast creature decks, this card may not really have a place. It can easily be chump-blocked by Faerie or Spirit tokens every turn. Ultimately, however good this card is, it's just not the right card for the current metagame, and something with better evasion, trample, shroud, protection or regeneration will likely be played instead. However, if a new deck emerges that needs a white finisher, I can't think of a better one than this.
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The secret truth is that removal dies to creatures.
Yeah, it's like R&D wanted to create see how absurdly good a creature would have to be to impress the jaded throngs of the PT mentality during rumor season.
This thing is bonkers good. But... I'm also not on the PT.
Really, what "big" creatures see play these days.
Colossus- Has prot black, can pump bigger then red and green can do damage. Still gets bounced and pathed but nor much avoides those.
Broodmate- There are two of them. They aren't immune to anything, but it takes two cards to kill them outright.
SotSW- Has protection from a couple things and flying to avoid most of greens smashers.
Mistbind Clique- Just flying, but they are played for the ability, not the body.
Uril- Shroud
Those are the most played "big" guys and we can see why. All of them can avoid some of the most popular removal in one way or another (MC still taps your mana for removal).
Don't get me wrong, this Angel is poweful, and I'm sure it will see play, but Goyf was great becuase he hit on turn 2, and by the time they drew or got the mana for removal, he has done his damage and they invested more cards and mana to kill him then you took to cast him. This hits on turn 5 (assumeing no accel from white. Maybe 4 if its W/G) meaning they will see atleast 1/6th their deck, and probably have the mana for a removal spell. Is it reason not to play the angel? Not at all. It at very least will force removal out of them that would go elsewhere, but becuase of the current meta of heavy removal, it won't rule games.
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BUT it can't be double Nameless Inversioned. And we all know how often THAT happens...
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Goyf is a 2 drop creature that can be put into any deck, and it only costs 2 mana. It trades or 2 for 1's people who kill it in terms of mana or direct creature combat. The only removal faster than Goyf is Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile which is directly inferior to S2P, Spell Snare, and Daze. It is immune to burn, blocks Goblin Lackey all day long, kills every utility creature in every format in direct combat, and is only vulnerable to countermagic or direct spot removal.
The only creatures larger than Goyf that see any play whatsoever are grow-a-critters, Phyrexian Dreadnaught, or Tombstalker, and all of these *require* specific decks to be viable.
Baneslayer is also still inferior to Exalted Angel. A card that is weaker than an older card (but still playable) is not power creep. Slide did not get totaled because it can't damage on the stack RFG one of its creatures. Most of the creatures it plays are going to kill opponents creatures anyway or are chumps, and are well protected by the slide engine.
Remember Battlegrace Angel?Everybody was awestruck by who BORKEN! this card was, well this is the new Battlegrace Angel.
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green has plenty of removal
for baneslayer
It's just trickier than the other colors. :-/Sort of.
On a side note, the mars volta is a pretty good band.
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off-topic
Does anyone else find it funny that it can still die to our premiere Demon Dragon Malfegor?
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I apologize for the length (I tend to need to follow my train of thought to the end before proceeding to the next, resulting in overly long posts, papers, and monologues in conversations) and for the copious amount of parentheses.
Are you referring to the sacrifice clause of his discard effect?
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Yes, I just think it's ironic that the one creature with protection from Demons and Dragons, can still be killed by the one creature with both types in the type line.
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I apologize for the length (I tend to need to follow my train of thought to the end before proceeding to the next, resulting in overly long posts, papers, and monologues in conversations) and for the copious amount of parentheses.
People see cards like this and complain about power creep.
Those same people then go to the full spoiler threads and complain about how subpar this set is.
News flash: IT CAN'T BE BOTH.
The fact you can compare Baneslayer Angel to Battlegrace Angel - a card that sees minimal play in competitive Standard - at *all* (Baneslayer is better but that's not my point) indicates to me that it's just a nice powerful finisher for White control/midrange decks.
In limited, its busted as all hell.
why? because its such an overrated card that pulls the wool over so many peoples eyes that i can basically trade it for two of anything i want.
a real angel would be guardian seraph or something
those at least have johnny value. this is a straight up timmy-spike card. but its sad because timmy-spike won't do that well because its just now good for the current standard meta.
^ What he said.
It's a VERY good creature. Will prolly see a lot of play.
Better than Spectral Procession (specially in a block with Windbrisk Heights)? Not in my book. So a fair and good card IMHO.
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
no... what they said they weren't going to do, is print utility cards as Mythic. And as near as I can tell by looking at the M10 spoiler they haven't.
okay, so tell me... how often are people facing down Chameleon Colossus' in Standard these days? How about Broodmate Dragons? How about Prince of Thralls?
I can't speak for Standard as I don't know the format very well. But I do know that Baneslayer Angel will DEFINITELY be finding a home in the Elder Dragon Highlander communities where BOTH dragon's and demon's see considerable play, and where this particular Angel is right alongside Akroma, Angel of Wrath as far as being the most powerful Angel ever printed. But I would be willing to wager that with the presence of at least Broodmate Dragon and Chameleon Colossus in Standard that Baneslayer Angel will not be an unwelcome addition to the Standard card pools.
I'm quoting you for two reasons:
1. This is exactly how everyone should view this card
2. Bah to another Kamahl
you mean it doesn't block your dudes and gain a bunch of life, or stop you from attacking? do i suck at reading?