Baneslayer angel
3WW
Creature - Angel (Mythic)
Flying, First strike, Lifelink
Protection from Demons and dragons
5/5
Doesn't this version seem a little too good for Wizards to print? This card would completely outclass - by a mile - the classic Serra Angel, which is in the same set. I know outclassing Serra is nothing new, but did they really print something so much better in the same set? The one they so proudly designed from the ground up?
Looking outside M10, this Baneslayer would also be better than Exalted Angel (unless you think morph 2WW is better than lifelink, first strike, +1/+0 and fairly weak protection.) Wasn't Exalted Angel pretty good? Didn't they just print it as a judge promo? I'd be pissed if I was a judge.
I know people have their hands on product now and that we should've heard by now if this card were spoiled incorrectly, so if it's been confirmed that the spoiler is correct I'll gladly go die in a fire. But doesn't it seem too good to be true?
Edit: A quick search seems to show (subject to possible user error) that the only 5/5 or bigger white creature they've ever printed for 5 mana or less was Thoughtweft Trio, and it had a drawback (Champion) and no flying. Printing this would be a big leap.
I still have trouble believing it too. Exalted Angel can come down a turn earlier (play it facedown turn three, turn it up turn four). But I don't play formats outside of T2, so I don't know how risky that play is. Baneslayer does seem to be a little over the top, and I'm certain that it'll see play, maybe not until rotation, but it'll be used. Five mana for a 5/5 first strike, flying, lifelink, protection from Chameleon colossus is pretty amazing.
It's real man, and you know why? Because people are still saying it's a worthless card that will never see competitive play. The fact that these people are on heavy narcotics is beside the point. If everyone said it was great, then I would worry about its validity :p.
Anyway, Mythic Angel, yeah, it's going to be powerful, but it remains very vulnerable. No reason it's not real.
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Decks
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
I have to call BS on this one as well, it is just to powerful of a card to be printed. It will basically be an auto include in most control builds that run white. the casting cost is way under shot.
Well Magic changes, and creatures eventually get better, creatures like Serra, Erhnam heck even newer ones like Exalted Angel, eventually get replaced by newer types that just the way its been, plus its not that super great either it goes down at the minimal 5th turn, if by turn 5 you still are threatened by a 5/5 flying with almost basically irrelevant protection your deck needs redesign, basically as is this card can be dealt with by all colors easily, if this were the same stats but with pro red and black, they you can say its pretty strong.
This thread is full of idiots... Lightning Bolt is NOT being reprinted.
Many times has a writer in Wizards said so, because of the plain and simple fact that it's too powerful for what it costs. x/3 creatures shouldn't be able to die at instant speed for one mana without a signifigant drawback. (like PTE giving you a land)
I absolutely guarantee that LB will not be printed in M10, and you can quote me on that.
Actually I think its a tossup between it and Exalted Angel. Exalted can come into play and swing on turn 4 and its lifelink is a bit more relevant because the damage is more likely to go through with the morph mystery. You get this for the tradeoff of limited protection, +1 power, and first strike. I think its a tossup, but I still think this new angel is power creep and shouldn't have been made.
I don't think its overpowered.
Remember that last card we had that turned out to be real. you know the one. Big *****in Behemoth :3mana::symg::symg:
Trample 20/20
well Big *****in Behemoth dies to removal too and it saw no play whatsoever. this Baneslayer Angel will be the same. Dies to removal. Worthless.
Recent discussions here and elsewhere have made it clear that there seems to be a group of players who consider blue and control synonymous, as if they somehow started playing a game with four identical and "bad" colors that do nothing interesting because they just "turn men sideways" and then true, glorious blue, the only thinking person's color.
EDH decks
Marath, Will of the Wild
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Marchesa, the Black Rose
if by turn 5 you still are threatened by a 5/5 flying with almost basically irrelevant protection your deck needs redesign, basically as is this card can be dealt with by all colors easily, if this were the same stats but with pro red and black, they you can say its pretty strong.
Recent discussions here and elsewhere have made it clear that there seems to be a group of players who consider blue and control synonymous, as if they somehow started playing a game with four identical and "bad" colors that do nothing interesting because they just "turn men sideways" and then true, glorious blue, the only thinking person's color.
EDH decks
Marath, Will of the Wild
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Marchesa, the Black Rose
Power Creep doesn't mean something is overpowered format wise. Wizards could print a black shock and it wouldn't break the game, but it'd sure as hell be power creep.
Exalted Angel is better with Astral Slide than Baneslayer will be with any deck you could possibly put it in.
No, it's not broken. Not by a long shot. If people are complaining about white getting cards that are fairly costed like Path, Harm's Way, Spectral Procession, ***, and Baneslayer, then they can continue being perplexed when it shows up dead last in all formats.
It's not power creep. When's the last time we've seen a 5 drop white creature that isn't supposed to be a dollar rare? Besides, expensive creatures that do nothing the turn they come into play are hardly groundbreakingly powerful.
Also, figure out what exactly power creep means before you toss it around. Baneslayer isn't bad, but it's a 5 drop midrange creature that doesn't have haste and, in a format that has almost no countermagic, no Lightning Greaves, and extremely aggressively costed spot removal in all colors except mono green, it's probably not even playable.
Also, figure out what exactly power creep means before you toss it around. Baneslayer isn't bad, but it's a 5 drop midrange creature that doesn't have haste and ... it's probably not even playable.
Are 5/5 fliers really supposed to be midrange creatures now? A 5/5 flier sounds like a finisher to me, and I don't think it'd be crazy to expect it to cost more than 5, and that's without having both lifelink and first strike. (As far as I can tell, the only other 5/5 flier they've printed for 5 without a drawback is Maelstrom Archangel, which is obviously a lot harder to actually play than its 5-mana cost makes it sound.)
What do you see as "high-range" creatures? Are there any besides Darksteel Colossus?
Exalted Angel is better with Astral Slide than Baneslayer will be with any deck you could possibly put it in.
No, it's not broken. Not by a long shot. If people are complaining about white getting cards that are fairly costed like Path, Harm's Way, Spectral Procession, ***, and Baneslayer, then they can continue being perplexed when it shows up dead last in all formats.
It's not power creep. When's the last time we've seen a 5 drop white creature that isn't supposed to be a dollar rare? Besides, expensive creatures that do nothing the turn they come into play are hardly groundbreakingly powerful.
Also, figure out what exactly power creep means before you toss it around. Baneslayer isn't bad, but it's a 5 drop midrange creature that doesn't have haste and, in a format that has almost no countermagic, no Lightning Greaves, and extremely aggressively costed spot removal in all colors except mono green, it's probably not even playable.
Well considering slide got HOSED along with the new rules so...yeah
Maybe you should figure out what it means first. Creature is an OBVIOUS power creep.
Dies to removal is NOT a valid argument. Same argument was brought up against goyf and what has happened to goyf? Played in every format able?
Well considering slide got HOSED along with the new rules so...yeah
Maybe you should figure out what it means first. Creature is an OBVIOUS power creep.
Dies to removal is NOT a valid argument. Same argument was brought up against goyf and what has happened to goyf? Played in every format able?
finally a sane person.
if they printed :3mana::symg::symg: Trample 20/20 people would still make the dies to removal argument.
Recent discussions here and elsewhere have made it clear that there seems to be a group of players who consider blue and control synonymous, as if they somehow started playing a game with four identical and "bad" colors that do nothing interesting because they just "turn men sideways" and then true, glorious blue, the only thinking person's color.
EDH decks
Marath, Will of the Wild
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Marchesa, the Black Rose
Too good to print? I don't think so, it's just plan good.
Battlegrace Angel often is a 5/5 life linker flyer for the same cost. You're just trading the ability to share the +1/+1 and lifelink with another dude for first strike and mostly irrelevant protection.
What really gets my goat is that they printed the card as a $Mythic$.
I mean I'm not saying it's over the top format warping OMG we're gonna die, but clearly this will be a stable 4 of for most white decks (outside of soldiers tribal maybe). This is what they said they wouldn't do, and it's what they just keep on doing.
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EVERYTHING dies to removal. That's the point of removal, you know? It removes things.
Of course, sometimes this argument is valid, sometimes it's not. It all depends on the efficiency of the creature. Baneslayer is a very efficient creature that must be answered immediately. Your opponent won't always be holding a removal spell, especially when you already have a deck full of good creatures that they're forced to use removal on.
Are 5/5 fliers really supposed to be midrange creatures now? A 5/5 flier sounds like a finisher to me, and I don't think it'd be crazy to expect it to cost more than 5, and that's without having both lifelink and first strike. (As far as I can tell, the only other 5/5 flier they've printed for 5 without a drawback is Maelstrom Archangel, which is obviously a lot harder to actually play than its 5-mana cost makes it sound.)
What do you see as "high-range" creatures? Are there any besides Darksteel Colossus?
because if they tacked a higher cost on to it like say Archangel which cost 7 for a 4/4 it becomes crap, as it Baneslayer, is just a extremely efficient creature for its cost, but so is ethersworn ajudicator and well all know how that card is playing out.
This thread is full of idiots... Lightning Bolt is NOT being reprinted.
Many times has a writer in Wizards said so, because of the plain and simple fact that it's too powerful for what it costs. x/3 creatures shouldn't be able to die at instant speed for one mana without a signifigant drawback. (like PTE giving you a land)
I absolutely guarantee that LB will not be printed in M10, and you can quote me on that.
Personally I think it's a ridiculous card but the lack of defense (vigilance) and no protection from removal (2 4/4s for six mana has protection) will only make it a really really good card instead of an awesome card.
The card is a 5/5 with a commanding board presence. It doesn't die to Bituminous Blast. Read that again. It doesn't die to Bituminous Blast. This card will see play in Standard.
You have been warned.
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If anyone has complaints about pulling Baneslayers then by all means i'll take them. I just love this card, especially in a deck that runs mana accel. Best case scenario you drop her turn 3 after a turn 1/2 mana dorks. Throw in Rafiq and we've got a deck! I know she'll get hit by removal but eventuially removal runs out and you're left staring down the sights of a very beefy *****.
PS: Did anyone notice that this makes Changeling a HUGE drawback? No more Nameless or Colossus to screw things up. YAY!
Baneslayer angel
3WW
Creature - Angel (Mythic)
Flying, First strike, Lifelink
Protection from Demons and dragons
5/5
Doesn't this version seem a little too good for Wizards to print? This card would completely outclass - by a mile - the classic Serra Angel, which is in the same set. I know outclassing Serra is nothing new, but did they really print something so much better in the same set? The one they so proudly designed from the ground up?
Looking outside M10, this Baneslayer would also be better than Exalted Angel (unless you think morph 2WW is better than lifelink, first strike, +1/+0 and fairly weak protection.) Wasn't Exalted Angel pretty good? Didn't they just print it as a judge promo? I'd be pissed if I was a judge.
I know people have their hands on product now and that we should've heard by now if this card were spoiled incorrectly, so if it's been confirmed that the spoiler is correct I'll gladly go die in a fire. But doesn't it seem too good to be true?
Edit: A quick search seems to show (subject to possible user error) that the only 5/5 or bigger white creature they've ever printed for 5 mana or less was Thoughtweft Trio, and it had a drawback (Champion) and no flying. Printing this would be a big leap.
My viewpoint on the angel is that it is certainly powerful, but along the same powerlevel as exalted angel was, given that the angel was crazy good in slide decks and normally could still be mophed and attack on turn 4, sometimes even turn 3 with mana accell and immediately create large swings in the game.
Also this is a completely different environment, creatures are now much more prevalent and have been allowed to have their powerlevel and presence increased over recent years versus what was available back when serra angel was first created (at uncommon btw).
Now we have serra angel put back down to uncommon as she originally was printed and I believe that to be the correct move given its relative power level versus other creatures that exist in the game these days.
Now then, as a creature color white is right up there with green as far as efficient creatures at any mana cost, though admittedly white is much more known for their crazy powerful weenie creatures.
Now then, lets look at the comparison between serra angel with serra being at uncommon now.
Serra Angel is a 4/4 flying vigilance angel.
Baneslayer Angel is a 5/5 flying lifelink first strike angel with protection from demons and dragons.
Now then, lets switch out the vigilance on serra angel for lifelink, a reasonable exchange. We then take its rarity up to Rare and give it +1+1 to compensate. Then up its rarity to mythic and add in first strike and the two protections. Given that the protections arent likely to matter the vast majority of the time I wouldnt really consider it as adding much of anything to its overall powerlevel, Id put that more for flavor than anything else.
The Baneslayer angel is good, dont get me wrong, however at the same time in a format where serra angel never sees the light of day and gets reduced down to uncommon, and where we have uncommon creatures like knight of meadowgrain which is a 2/2 lifelink first strike for 2 mana, its not that much of a leap to work your way up the process to get to something like baneslayer angel.
From knight of meadowgrain you add three mana to the cost to give it +3+3, bringing it up to a 5/5 lifelink first strike, then up it to rare to give it flying, and then tack on the two protections to make it mythic.
Powerful creatures are allowed to exist at mythic, especially in a format like this. Its not going to break the format by any means, and as for the funny comment about the 20/20 trample for 3GG, well Lord of Extinction does not have trample, and there are a million ways to disrupt it from ever getting that huge. Do I ever expect wizards to print a 20/20 for 3GG, I honestly doubt it. But even if they did, it wouldnt have any sort of evasion or trample or the like on it so that it could be chump blocked all day long to help balance it out. I dont honestly take that post about the 20/20 seriously of course, but I felt the need to comment regardless.
A great card for control decks, a great creature in general, but without relavant protections, and with the quality removal available, I believe the format is plenty balanced enough to support such a creature and I honestly dont see it seeing any more play, and in fact probably quite less than exalted angel did in its day.
It represents the top of the curve for a white 5 drop. Something had to do it. It is good but the excellent removal in standard keeps it from being too good, but that wont stop it from being played. This only needs to swing once to turn a game around.
Too good to print? I don't think so, it's just plan good.
Battlegrace Angel often is a 5/5 life linker flyer for the same cost. You're just trading the ability to share the +1/+1 and lifelink with another dude for first strike and mostly irrelevant protection.
What really gets my goat is that they printed the card as a $Mythic$.
I mean I'm not saying it's over the top format warping OMG we're gonna die, but clearly this will be a stable 4 of for most white decks (outside of soldiers tribal maybe). This is what they said they wouldn't do, and it's what they just keep on doing.
I agree with the first half, Battlegrace Angel serves a very similar function and impacts the board the same turn she comes down. Battlegrace is a better team-player, Baneslayer is a better solo-act. They are overall similar in power level, so this never should have been a surprise with regard to power level.
Also, what people forget about Exalted Angel is that she eats up Turns 3 AND 4 to cast, and she spends a turn as a 2/2.
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Baneslayer angel
3WW
Creature - Angel (Mythic)
Flying, First strike, Lifelink
Protection from Demons and dragons
5/5
Doesn't this version seem a little too good for Wizards to print? This card would completely outclass - by a mile - the classic Serra Angel, which is in the same set. I know outclassing Serra is nothing new, but did they really print something so much better in the same set? The one they so proudly designed from the ground up?
Looking outside M10, this Baneslayer would also be better than Exalted Angel (unless you think morph 2WW is better than lifelink, first strike, +1/+0 and fairly weak protection.) Wasn't Exalted Angel pretty good? Didn't they just print it as a judge promo? I'd be pissed if I was a judge.
I know people have their hands on product now and that we should've heard by now if this card were spoiled incorrectly, so if it's been confirmed that the spoiler is correct I'll gladly go die in a fire. But doesn't it seem too good to be true?
Edit: A quick search seems to show (subject to possible user error) that the only 5/5 or bigger white creature they've ever printed for 5 mana or less was Thoughtweft Trio, and it had a drawback (Champion) and no flying. Printing this would be a big leap.
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Anyway, Mythic Angel, yeah, it's going to be powerful, but it remains very vulnerable. No reason it's not real.
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks)
Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
Legacy
Burn
Vintage
None
Casual
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Pink Floyd (UWr Wall Control)
Lunch Box (Fatty ramp)
D-Bag (White Control)
Level 13 Task Mage
“Homo homini lupus est.”
Remember that last card we had that turned out to be real. you know the one.
Big *****in Behemoth :3mana::symg::symg:
Trample 20/20
well Big *****in Behemoth dies to removal too and it saw no play whatsoever. this Baneslayer Angel will be the same. Dies to removal. Worthless.
http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/1/6/5261/20801.jpg
EDH decks
Marath, Will of the Wild
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Marchesa, the Black Rose
And it's not like any other cards in the set are similarly powerful...just this one weird outlier.
Edit:
I respect your opinion. I would never play with Jenara, Meddling Mage, Noble Hierarch, Rafiq, Master of Etherium, Wilt-Leaf Liege, or Figure of Destiny either.
dood i was obviously being extremeeely sarcastic in the utmost. read my entire post.
http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/1/6/5261/20801.jpg
EDH decks
Marath, Will of the Wild
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Marchesa, the Black Rose
No, it's not broken. Not by a long shot. If people are complaining about white getting cards that are fairly costed like Path, Harm's Way, Spectral Procession, ***, and Baneslayer, then they can continue being perplexed when it shows up dead last in all formats.
It's not power creep. When's the last time we've seen a 5 drop white creature that isn't supposed to be a dollar rare? Besides, expensive creatures that do nothing the turn they come into play are hardly groundbreakingly powerful.
Also, figure out what exactly power creep means before you toss it around. Baneslayer isn't bad, but it's a 5 drop midrange creature that doesn't have haste and, in a format that has almost no countermagic, no Lightning Greaves, and extremely aggressively costed spot removal in all colors except mono green, it's probably not even playable.
What do you see as "high-range" creatures? Are there any besides Darksteel Colossus?
Well considering slide got HOSED along with the new rules so...yeah
Maybe you should figure out what it means first. Creature is an OBVIOUS power creep.
Dies to removal is NOT a valid argument. Same argument was brought up against goyf and what has happened to goyf? Played in every format able?
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finally a sane person.
if they printed :3mana::symg::symg: Trample 20/20 people would still make the dies to removal argument.
http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/1/6/5261/20801.jpg
EDH decks
Marath, Will of the Wild
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Marchesa, the Black Rose
Battlegrace Angel often is a 5/5 life linker flyer for the same cost. You're just trading the ability to share the +1/+1 and lifelink with another dude for first strike and mostly irrelevant protection.
What really gets my goat is that they printed the card as a $Mythic$.
I mean I'm not saying it's over the top format warping OMG we're gonna die, but clearly this will be a stable 4 of for most white decks (outside of soldiers tribal maybe). This is what they said they wouldn't do, and it's what they just keep on doing.
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Of course, sometimes this argument is valid, sometimes it's not. It all depends on the efficiency of the creature. Baneslayer is a very efficient creature that must be answered immediately. Your opponent won't always be holding a removal spell, especially when you already have a deck full of good creatures that they're forced to use removal on.
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because if they tacked a higher cost on to it like say Archangel which cost 7 for a 4/4 it becomes crap, as it Baneslayer, is just a extremely efficient creature for its cost, but so is ethersworn ajudicator and well all know how that card is playing out.
“Homo homini lupus est.”
You have been warned.
Read my Constructed column on Star City, Thirst for Knowledge!
View my MTGS-era TFK articles here!
PS: Did anyone notice that this makes Changeling a HUGE drawback? No more Nameless or Colossus to screw things up. YAY!
[/center]
My viewpoint on the angel is that it is certainly powerful, but along the same powerlevel as exalted angel was, given that the angel was crazy good in slide decks and normally could still be mophed and attack on turn 4, sometimes even turn 3 with mana accell and immediately create large swings in the game.
Also this is a completely different environment, creatures are now much more prevalent and have been allowed to have their powerlevel and presence increased over recent years versus what was available back when serra angel was first created (at uncommon btw).
Now we have serra angel put back down to uncommon as she originally was printed and I believe that to be the correct move given its relative power level versus other creatures that exist in the game these days.
Now then, as a creature color white is right up there with green as far as efficient creatures at any mana cost, though admittedly white is much more known for their crazy powerful weenie creatures.
Now then, lets look at the comparison between serra angel with serra being at uncommon now.
Serra Angel is a 4/4 flying vigilance angel.
Baneslayer Angel is a 5/5 flying lifelink first strike angel with protection from demons and dragons.
Now then, lets switch out the vigilance on serra angel for lifelink, a reasonable exchange. We then take its rarity up to Rare and give it +1+1 to compensate. Then up its rarity to mythic and add in first strike and the two protections. Given that the protections arent likely to matter the vast majority of the time I wouldnt really consider it as adding much of anything to its overall powerlevel, Id put that more for flavor than anything else.
The Baneslayer angel is good, dont get me wrong, however at the same time in a format where serra angel never sees the light of day and gets reduced down to uncommon, and where we have uncommon creatures like knight of meadowgrain which is a 2/2 lifelink first strike for 2 mana, its not that much of a leap to work your way up the process to get to something like baneslayer angel.
From knight of meadowgrain you add three mana to the cost to give it +3+3, bringing it up to a 5/5 lifelink first strike, then up it to rare to give it flying, and then tack on the two protections to make it mythic.
Powerful creatures are allowed to exist at mythic, especially in a format like this. Its not going to break the format by any means, and as for the funny comment about the 20/20 trample for 3GG, well Lord of Extinction does not have trample, and there are a million ways to disrupt it from ever getting that huge. Do I ever expect wizards to print a 20/20 for 3GG, I honestly doubt it. But even if they did, it wouldnt have any sort of evasion or trample or the like on it so that it could be chump blocked all day long to help balance it out. I dont honestly take that post about the 20/20 seriously of course, but I felt the need to comment regardless.
A great card for control decks, a great creature in general, but without relavant protections, and with the quality removal available, I believe the format is plenty balanced enough to support such a creature and I honestly dont see it seeing any more play, and in fact probably quite less than exalted angel did in its day.
Also, what people forget about Exalted Angel is that she eats up Turns 3 AND 4 to cast, and she spends a turn as a 2/2.