Conflux really does feel like Invasion 2.0 so far...
This statement reminds me directly of when Ravnica was first being spoiled. You saw statements like "Ravnica is Invasion 2.0!!!" all over the place. And oh, look at that, Ravnica was one of the most fun blocks in recent years.
I'm on the side of reprints are fine. In fact, I'd go as far as to say get over all the "reprints". The scepters may be functionally SIMILAR to some older cards, but they're colored artifacts (as someone stated), which makes them extremely different.
The Protection Bears are functionally identically to some old cards. But they fit so well in this day and age. With how heavy the hybrid and gold cards are in the current format, protection from even a single color is important, and can be extremely useful. Also, they updated the flavor, so it's not like we have to look at the exact same cards again.
The four real reprints? Oh noes! Four cards! Unsummon hates on all Devour creatures. Mana Cylix works with the needed mana fixing of the set (though, there is already a ton of it). Worldly Counsel works well with the new domain keyword. Maniacal Rage... well, that one sucks and I don't really know where it fits. But whatever, not every card is a bomb.
A card like Might of Alara, though another functional reprint, again works well in the general themes of green and works well with domain. I also like that Gaea's Might Get There can exist in force in Extended. Aggro decks needed a leg up there.
And, finally, there are 145 cards in the set. We have 21. You pointed out 15 cards. 15/145... There are 130 cards left to see. If the bulk of the set can't change your minds about this set, then you don't really appreciate the game. It has also been pointed out that the boring cards usually get spoiled first with a fun rare or two thrown in here and there. When there are about two or three weeks left until the pre-release, we'll start getting the meat of the set and everyone will talk about how over powered the set it. Then, with a week or less left, we'll start getting filler limited fodder and everyone will start talking about how all the cards in the set suck because they're all crappy limited filler.
So stop jumping to conclusions about a set with barely over TWENTY CARDS revealed. -Jack
I'll gladly take Ravnica/Invasion Type 2 again over this Lorwyn shenanigans. If we get another golden age of magic after Lorwyn rotates then I'll be happy.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
For me, the problem with reprints boils down to this: it makes me feel like WotC is trying to cheat players out of their hard earned money.
I fully understand that the 10 reprints/functional reprints we've seen so far fit into the theme and mechanical structure of this set. I understand that they're not, in and of themselves, terrible cards and that people will play them in limited and possibly constructed. But that doesn't change the fact that they are cards that already exist, and anyone who wants to play with them already has access to them.
Of course sets have always had a few reprints here and there. But anyone who denies that in this most recent block they've noticeably and significantly increased the amount (while at the same time decreasing set sizes no less) is frankly, making fan-boy excuses. They've crossed an invisible line of what's acceptable for a "new" set, IMHO. (And from the looks of this thread, many players agree.)
I have enjoyed Magic for several years, and hope to continue enjoying it for years to come. But I think if we don't hold WotC to a higher standard, they're going to keep feeding us left over table scraps.
Frankly the Invasion "reprints" aren't all that bad, while I and many of the long time players know them and remember them well the new generations of players don't.
At my local card shop we have about 28 players who will come in and play every now and again, but of those 28 there's no more than 8 which know Invasion well enough to remember these cards and less than 5 including myself who actually ever played Invasion limited using the cards. Most of the players started Mirrodin or even Ravnica and some have started just recently in Lorwyn.
Invasion was released in 2000 and that means that it's 8-9 years since these cards last saw any serious limited play. Put in this context I'd be much more annoyed if we had a large number of reprints from Ravnica which most people remember than these Invasion reprints.
For me, the problem with reprints boils down to this: it makes me feel like WotC is trying to cheat players out of their hard earned money.
Wizards prints tons of unplayable chaff in every set. Doesn't matter if it's reprinted cards or new stuff. If you weren't complaining every time you opened a bloody Chimney Imp, Takeno's Cavalry, or Zephyr Spirit, why are you so outraged by seeing these cards (not all of which are a waste of cardboard) in Conflux now?
I fully understand that the 10 reprints/functional reprints we've seen so far fit into the theme and mechanical structure of this set. I understand that they're not, in and of themselves, terrible cards and that people will play them in limited and possibly constructed. But that doesn't change the fact that they are cards that already exist, and anyone who wants to play with them already has access to them.
Not everyone is a long time player like yourself. New people who build their collection by cracking packs open don't exactly have access to Invasion booster boxes, and probably don't even know those cards existed. Just trade reprints you don't want to them.
And functional reprints definitely aren't cards that "already exist". Now you can build a deck with 4 Gaea's Might and 4 Might of Alara. If you hate white now you can make a deck with 8 Shivan Zombies.
Of course sets have always had a few reprints here and there. But anyone who denies that in this most recent block they've noticeably and significantly increased the amount (while at the same time decreasing set sizes no less) is frankly, making fan-boy excuses. They've crossed an invisible line of what's acceptable for a "new" set, IMHO. (And from the looks of this thread, many players agree.)
It seems you missed the memo. Wizards is doing this because from 11th Edition onwards, they're changing the structure of core sets, from weak introductory sets with a few decent cards, to competitive sets. In exchange, however, they decided to raise the amount of "introductory" cards in new sets to help noobs understand the game better. Makes sense really, since noobs just buy the latest expansion instead of the Core set.
So there are more reprints. They are trying out a new approach to sets: more staple reprints in expansion sets, and less staple reprints in the core sets. Give it a rest.
They could have made an Unsummon variant and a new version of Maniacal Rage rather than just reprint them directly, but they would have still been mostly limited fodder at best. Does that really matter? As for the other reprints or functional reprints, they are decent cards at least.
... except for Mana Cylix. What's up with that card getting reprinted? ;)...:p
But now with Oblivion Ring and Naturalize already reprinted..... i could understand if they wanted to free up some space in 11th to reprint some 10th in the blocks like Unsummon. If it fits the flavor, then I say go for it, so maybe Unsummon goes with the theme of Conflux. Shards reverting back to one plane (Domain), creatures warping and being... unsummoned.
There's near-infinite design space and they're repackaging all the nostalgia (Invasion & Shocklands). But I'm a sucker so I'll keep buying it, seriously.
Momentary Blink can only target your own creature and has flashback; Turn To Mist can target any creature and is hybrid. Thoughtseize costs only one mana for the same effect as the two mana Distress, which in turn is a slightly ristricted version of Coercion. Rain of Tears and Stone Rain are entirely different colors.
If anything, these complaints support direct reprints of past cards over new rehashes and twists on the same mechanics.
Has it not dawned on a lot of you complainers so far that Magic is a big game that's still getting bigger and bigger, and that many new players are coming into the game every year, and that many of them most likely would not have any idea what we are talking about when it comes to reprints? Our complaining and bashing?
Don't you guys think it's selfish for us not to let the new guys get a piece of history by being able to play with functional reprints of useful/powerful classic cards in a format that's easily accessible to them?
I've been playing since Mirage, quit during Mirrodin, came back during Ravnica, and as far as I can see, I've been playing with several thousand reprints of a card I first saw in Mirage Block--Maros and Atogs have seen a gazillion incarnations, but that's not so bad now, isn't it?
For as long as the game still works, is still fun, and can attract a new slew of players willing to learn and play the best card game that started it all, Magic will still be the same old Magic we used to play, regardless of the number of times we see a card revived, reprinted, and replayed.
Thank you.
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For me, it doesn't really matter if they reprinted a large sum of cards. The card itself almost changes based on it's meta. Lets take vithian stinger for example. If they printed it during Kamigawa, it would be pretty bad, not very playable. But thanks to the existance of Bitterblossom it is worth playing. Say they printed the following card in Timespiral:
Example 0
Instant
Destory target faerie.
Complete rubish. What does it kill, Scryb Ranger and Mistform Ultimus? Both not very played. This would be a janky terrible card. However now adays just looking at a card that efficient in de-throning faeries make people drool. So i think that creating a meta full of diverse cards is almost as important as making up new ones. So as long as they kept it diverse and interesting, and since there are over 10k choices i think it is totaly legit to do lots of reprints.
Wizards prints tons of unplayable chaff in every set. Doesn't matter if it's reprinted cards or new stuff. If you weren't complaining every time you opened a bloody Chimney Imp, Takeno's Cavalry, or Zephyr Spirit, why are you so outraged by seeing these cards (not all of which are a waste of cardboard) in Conflux now?
Funny you should mention Zephyr Spirit, I actually quite enjoyed playing a deck that was in an article on mtg.com designed around taking advantage of it as a high CMC spirit you could replay to trigger Cloudhoof Kirin, the dragon auras from Scourge as well as being able to pitch it to Disrupting Shoal to counter the popular legendary dragons like Kokusho, which all cost 6 mana. Fun times. But I digress...
IMHO, they should at least make an attempt to design new stuff, and let the players decide what's worth playing. Bundling in old material with "new" products is lazy, and the fact that they're asking us to pay money for the (ever decreasing) amount of new stuff, makes it borderline dishonest.
Not everyone is a long time player like yourself. New people who build their collection by cracking packs open don't exactly have access to Invasion booster boxes, and probably don't even know those cards existed. Just trade reprints you don't want to them.
I haven't checked the prices of Invasion singles lately, but I doubt these are very pricey. It's quite easy to pickup any old singles from online vendors, both paper and MTGO.
And functional reprints definitely aren't cards that "already exist". Now you can build a deck with 4 Gaea's Might and 4 Might of Alara. If you hate white now you can make a deck with 8 Shivan Zombies.
This is a fair point, although I don't know how many functional reprints this applies to in practice.
It seems you missed the memo. Wizards is doing this because from 11th Edition onwards, they're changing the structure of core sets, from weak introductory sets with a few decent cards, to competitive sets. In exchange, however, they decided to raise the amount of "introductory" cards in new sets to help noobs understand the game better. Makes sense really, since noobs just buy the latest expansion instead of the Core set.
No, I didn't "miss the memo". We have yet to see an actual core set designed under this model, but regardless, core sets are still all 100% reprints. They won't be exploring any new design space in them. That's the heart of the matter for me. There's only so many new sets a year. By decreasing the amount of truly new cards, we see less and less new stuff and the game gets stale much more quickly.
Has it not dawned on a lot of you complainers so far that Magic is a big game that's still getting bigger and bigger, and that many new players are coming into the game every year, and that many of them most likely would not have any idea what we are talking about when it comes to reprints? Our complaining and bashing?
If bringing in more players at the expense of keeping long term players ultimately increases their bottom line, then so be it. They are a for-profit corporation after all. It just makes me sad to see them take Richard Garfield's brillant work of art and reduce it to a cash cow.
Don't you guys think it's selfish for us not to let the new guys get a piece of history by being able to play with functional reprints of useful/powerful classic cards in a format that's easily accessible to them?
The cards being reprinted aren't particularly powerful, hard to get, or expense (as far as I know). Let new players pick them up on the secondary market if they want them.
For as long as the game still works, is still fun, and can attract a new slew of players willing to learn and play the best card game that started it all, Magic will still be the same old Magic we used to play, regardless of the number of times we see a card revived, reprinted, and replayed.
I don't know about other long time players, but for me the only way the game says fun, is if it's kept fresh. Reprints and rehahses don't get me interested or excited. I don't doubt that there's lots and lots of design space to explore (just take a look at the custom card creation forums here). What I do doubt, is that WotC can successfully balance their drive to bring in new players and reduce development costs, against the desire for innovation coming from long time players.
Most of the cards being reprinted are commons. That means that, realistically, they're being reprinted for Limited. Why think up another Unsummon or Naturalize variant for limited when they could just reprint the original? Need color fixing... Mana Cyclix is the most basic color fixer there is. Need a generic allied-color cycle of creatures? Pro Bears.
Really, the only two "reprints" that aren't for Limited are PtE and Sedraxis Alchemist. And in both of those cases, they're being modified a little from the original and have a chance (a very good one in PtE's case) of being played, in which case its not a waste.
Really none of these reprints really bother me much, I can see the usefulness of each, unsummon for one, costs one blue to remove a creature at instant speed, not terrible. Maniacal Rage can be thrown on an evasion creature, flying etc. to get in more damage (but would also help the creature survive direct damage). The only one I find tricky is Alara's might but with the panorama's (or lush growth!) this could be pretty ugly in limited. I played when Invasion was around and those allied color protection creatures were very useful, I can't see how they would be worse here (they might even be better now.).
People will play Oblivion Ring in Standard anyway, even if that card didn't appear in Shards, but in Shards limited, white needs something to deal with Planeswalkers, and the best (and probably most elegant) way is to just bring back the Ring itself. Green needs a two-mana creature that serves as early beats, and can be devoured when the ground is cluttered with weenies. And we have Cylian Elf. The same can be said for the Conflux reprints.
Quote from Locke »
Need color fixing... Mana Cyclix is the most basic color fixer there is. Need a generic allied-color cycle of creatures? Pro Bears.
Quote from WarEmblem »
For me, the problem with reprints boils down to this: it makes me feel like WotC is trying to cheat players out of their hard earned money.
That might have been true pre-Ravnica, but nowadays I find it hard to believe that casual players still crack packs for the sake of just cracking packs. That's a total waste of a booster. They draft/sealed/minimaster them. So many things you can do with an unopened booster. That's why intro packs come with one now.
Besides, I don't think reprints would actually deprive tournament players of constructed-worthy cards. What do you expect in place of Unsummon?Or Cylian Elf? Despite cries of 'Limited fodder' or 'totally unplayable' Cruel Ultimatum and Blightning have been showing up in top-tier decks. The fact is the set shapes the constructed scene, and not the other way round. There ain't going to be another Mirrodin, so you tournament constructed players ought to learn how to innovate with 'sucky' cards.
To put it simply, Wizards doesn't just make cards. They make sets of cards. I find it a wise thing for Wizards to concentrate on the Limited experience, as it is easier to pick up, requires less of an investment, smoothens out the playability distribution of a set, and most importantly sells more packs.
... except for Mana Cylix. What's up with that card getting reprinted? ;)...:p
.
I'm pretty sure the first draft, I'll get a ton of those and pound people flat with a horde of Thoctars, Gargoyles, War Monks, etc. That card just makes dropping cheap, uncommon bombs quickly, so much easier.
People will play Oblivion Ring in Standard anyway, even if that card didn't appear in Shards, but in Shards limited, white needs something to deal with Planeswalkers, and the best (and probably most elegant) way is to just bring back the Ring itself.
This worries me. Shouldn't white have more than one way to deal with planeswalkers? Are they so hard to handle?!
Reprint away. One of my favorite sets ever was mostly reprints.
Spacing them out a bit would be nice though. Oblivion Ring, Cancel, Terramorphic Expanse, and a couple others being reprinted so soon after they had been originally printed was kinda bunk.
Hey, I didn't say the set was bad, horrible in limited, etc. I said it was not inspiring. Another word for it - boring. And somewhat redundant.
So, Unsummon. Sometimes simplicity is good, sometimes it's not. Started playing in the IPA/OTJ type 2, I've seen to many better and, more importantly, prettier versions of this effect to be excited by their predecessor. Not fun. Say, Angelic Shield would fit perfectly into the Bant flavor or even Sigil of Sleep, would be quite a clever reprint... Also, there's already Call to Heel & Excommunicate in the block, which do pretty much the same thing.
Maniacal Rage - simply boring. It may have some impact in limited when putted on one of those protection bears, yet it's very simple and not that great card. Also, it wasn't that long since we've seen Undying Rage which was the same card only with an interesting twist.
Mana Cylix - weak. Really. Color fixing is important in multi-coloured block, sure, but it's just not worth it. And, once again, it hasn't been since we've seen the same effect executed better - Prismatic Lens and Springleaf Drum anyone?
Pro colour bears - a whole cycle of french vanilla critters. Sure, they have an important limited role to fulfill, but really, are they that interesting? Hey, were Barrenton Cragtreads cycle fun? Doubt it.
Worldly Counsel, Gaea's Might - y'know, Invasion had 40 cards dealing with mana fixing and/or land searching while SoA has 18. Sure, Shards are smaller but not that much smaller. Planeshift got another 16. Conflux currently has 4(which is kinda good, hope they keep this proportion}. And you see, domain-mechanic is broken when you have god-tier mana fixing(of "fetch-lands+shock lands" tier), without it it's decent at best. And if in IPA domain mechanic&support for it was spread throught the three sets, it's very likely that in Alara block it will be packed into one small set which is, frankly, not enough. So we'll see another of those ideas lacking flesh to really make it into t2(like it was with slivers or rebels or madness in TPF or with a soldiers/wizards/shamans in LOR/MOR - not enough cards to make a deck).
So, as I said, currently it's looking unimaginative, not bad.
Pro colour bears - a whole cycle of french vanilla critters. Sure, they have an important limited role to fulfill, but really, are they that interesting? Hey, were Barrenton Cragtreads cycle fun? Doubt it.
Whoa, hold it! watered down evasion does not compare to "protection from", I think the "Pro bears" may have some interesting interactions, besides standard defense/evasion stuff, anyone remember the allied color enchantments from Shadowmoor? [CARD]Steel of the Godhead
[/CARD] on a pro red creature sounds....tasty.
#1 – Our End Goal Is Not Innovation. This was a point I hit upon earlier in the year. R&D's chief goal is not to push innovation. Our chief goal is to make the game as enjoyable as it can be. (Okay, technically, our chief goal is to sell cards, but R&D accomplishes this task by making the game as enjoyable as it can be, thus encouraging all of you to want to buy it.) To achieve this, we need to take whatever steps necessary to make the set as a whole play as well as it can, both with itself and with all the cards that came before. Thus, when we are trying to solve a problem, reprints are a valuable tool. We understand them, as there has been substantial "beta testing" (what some of you might call "selling the product to the customers"), meaning that we have a good sense of their power level and how they interact with other types of cards.
Yeah yeah, they've said that a thousand times. But when 1 out of every 10 cards is a reprint, that makes the set BORING! We don't need every card to be innovative, but we do need them to be interesting.
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I don't see WHY they have to reprint stuff. Why can't they just change it a little so it's actually a new card.
For instance Oblivion Ring. They could have just made a new one for 1WW and make it an artifact. That fits a Shard and it's just slightly different.
Unsummon... there's tons of ways to do this and I seriously don't get why they simply reprint it.
So far we have about 15% of the entire set and about 10% are reprints. I don't like it, I don't understand it AND it's unnecessary.
Sure, every set needs a Terror and a Lightning Bolt. But there is just so much design space to make a new one every time. We pay $4 per pack. Please invest some time to at least make an effort to design a new one.
So far, I am very disappointed by this whole block. I've even considered to quit entirely (planeswalkers: BAD idea, mythic rares: BAD idea...)
-sal
Because the original will always be the best version. Oh and big deal on quitting. Many more new players will be coming in.
Lolz at disappointment with a set that has 24 cards out. I like all the original cards I have seen somewhat at least.
Man once we have 75% or more of the set then start whining. We don't even know the mechanics of the set yet assuming it has new ones which nearly every set does.
Reprints also are fine if they benefit the set. Man I would love to see old favorites back again. Sure unsummon is not really an "old favorite" but the card doesn't suck.
Most of the others have never been reprinted or haven't seen print in a very long time. Now if we were getting say plain Grizzly Bear, Gray Ogre, Hill Giant in every set then I could think that would be unforgivable.
(The above statement is not meant as a knock on Shards for having vanillas.)
Anyways amount of reprints is irrelevant when 75-90% of every single set ever made is jank and not playable in any format except limited. Very few sets can break out of that hard fact and while some people might play them for fun they sure as heck aren't good enough to see serious play.
Like someone said before: there are thousands of different magic cards already, most of them never reprinted.
*does not apply to: Umezawass jitte, Tarmogoyf, counterspell, dark ritual, fetchlands, moxes and all overpovered cards.
Decks:
EDH: :symbw::symuw::symub:Merieke Ri Berit:symbw::symuw::symub:
Archenemy EDH: Reaper king
(")(")
GONZO
Genius, fast, and long eared.
I'm on the side of reprints are fine. In fact, I'd go as far as to say get over all the "reprints". The scepters may be functionally SIMILAR to some older cards, but they're colored artifacts (as someone stated), which makes them extremely different.
The Protection Bears are functionally identically to some old cards. But they fit so well in this day and age. With how heavy the hybrid and gold cards are in the current format, protection from even a single color is important, and can be extremely useful. Also, they updated the flavor, so it's not like we have to look at the exact same cards again.
The four real reprints? Oh noes! Four cards! Unsummon hates on all Devour creatures. Mana Cylix works with the needed mana fixing of the set (though, there is already a ton of it). Worldly Counsel works well with the new domain keyword. Maniacal Rage... well, that one sucks and I don't really know where it fits. But whatever, not every card is a bomb.
A card like Might of Alara, though another functional reprint, again works well in the general themes of green and works well with domain. I also like that Gaea's Might Get There can exist in force in Extended. Aggro decks needed a leg up there.
And, finally, there are 145 cards in the set. We have 21. You pointed out 15 cards. 15/145... There are 130 cards left to see. If the bulk of the set can't change your minds about this set, then you don't really appreciate the game. It has also been pointed out that the boring cards usually get spoiled first with a fun rare or two thrown in here and there. When there are about two or three weeks left until the pre-release, we'll start getting the meat of the set and everyone will talk about how over powered the set it. Then, with a week or less left, we'll start getting filler limited fodder and everyone will start talking about how all the cards in the set suck because they're all crappy limited filler.
So stop jumping to conclusions about a set with barely over TWENTY CARDS revealed. -Jack This statement reminds me directly of when Ravnica was first being spoiled. You saw statements like "Ravnica is Invasion 2.0!!!" all over the place. And oh, look at that, Ravnica was one of the most fun blocks in recent years.
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I fully understand that the 10 reprints/functional reprints we've seen so far fit into the theme and mechanical structure of this set. I understand that they're not, in and of themselves, terrible cards and that people will play them in limited and possibly constructed. But that doesn't change the fact that they are cards that already exist, and anyone who wants to play with them already has access to them.
Of course sets have always had a few reprints here and there. But anyone who denies that in this most recent block they've noticeably and significantly increased the amount (while at the same time decreasing set sizes no less) is frankly, making fan-boy excuses. They've crossed an invisible line of what's acceptable for a "new" set, IMHO. (And from the looks of this thread, many players agree.)
I have enjoyed Magic for several years, and hope to continue enjoying it for years to come. But I think if we don't hold WotC to a higher standard, they're going to keep feeding us left over table scraps.
At my local card shop we have about 28 players who will come in and play every now and again, but of those 28 there's no more than 8 which know Invasion well enough to remember these cards and less than 5 including myself who actually ever played Invasion limited using the cards. Most of the players started Mirrodin or even Ravnica and some have started just recently in Lorwyn.
Invasion was released in 2000 and that means that it's 8-9 years since these cards last saw any serious limited play. Put in this context I'd be much more annoyed if we had a large number of reprints from Ravnica which most people remember than these Invasion reprints.
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Wizards prints tons of unplayable chaff in every set. Doesn't matter if it's reprinted cards or new stuff. If you weren't complaining every time you opened a bloody Chimney Imp, Takeno's Cavalry, or Zephyr Spirit, why are you so outraged by seeing these cards (not all of which are a waste of cardboard) in Conflux now?
Not everyone is a long time player like yourself. New people who build their collection by cracking packs open don't exactly have access to Invasion booster boxes, and probably don't even know those cards existed. Just trade reprints you don't want to them.
And functional reprints definitely aren't cards that "already exist". Now you can build a deck with 4 Gaea's Might and 4 Might of Alara. If you hate white now you can make a deck with 8 Shivan Zombies.
It seems you missed the memo. Wizards is doing this because from 11th Edition onwards, they're changing the structure of core sets, from weak introductory sets with a few decent cards, to competitive sets. In exchange, however, they decided to raise the amount of "introductory" cards in new sets to help noobs understand the game better. Makes sense really, since noobs just buy the latest expansion instead of the Core set.
They could have made an Unsummon variant and a new version of Maniacal Rage rather than just reprint them directly, but they would have still been mostly limited fodder at best. Does that really matter? As for the other reprints or functional reprints, they are decent cards at least.
... except for Mana Cylix. What's up with that card getting reprinted? ;)...:p
Momentary Blink can only target your own creature and has flashback; Turn To Mist can target any creature and is hybrid. Thoughtseize costs only one mana for the same effect as the two mana Distress, which in turn is a slightly ristricted version of Coercion. Rain of Tears and Stone Rain are entirely different colors.
If anything, these complaints support direct reprints of past cards over new rehashes and twists on the same mechanics.
Don't you guys think it's selfish for us not to let the new guys get a piece of history by being able to play with functional reprints of useful/powerful classic cards in a format that's easily accessible to them?
I've been playing since Mirage, quit during Mirrodin, came back during Ravnica, and as far as I can see, I've been playing with several thousand reprints of a card I first saw in Mirage Block--Maros and Atogs have seen a gazillion incarnations, but that's not so bad now, isn't it?
For as long as the game still works, is still fun, and can attract a new slew of players willing to learn and play the best card game that started it all, Magic will still be the same old Magic we used to play, regardless of the number of times we see a card revived, reprinted, and replayed.
Thank you.
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Example 0
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Destory target faerie.
Complete rubish. What does it kill, Scryb Ranger and Mistform Ultimus? Both not very played. This would be a janky terrible card. However now adays just looking at a card that efficient in de-throning faeries make people drool. So i think that creating a meta full of diverse cards is almost as important as making up new ones. So as long as they kept it diverse and interesting, and since there are over 10k choices i think it is totaly legit to do lots of reprints.
Funny you should mention Zephyr Spirit, I actually quite enjoyed playing a deck that was in an article on mtg.com designed around taking advantage of it as a high CMC spirit you could replay to trigger Cloudhoof Kirin, the dragon auras from Scourge as well as being able to pitch it to Disrupting Shoal to counter the popular legendary dragons like Kokusho, which all cost 6 mana. Fun times. But I digress...
IMHO, they should at least make an attempt to design new stuff, and let the players decide what's worth playing. Bundling in old material with "new" products is lazy, and the fact that they're asking us to pay money for the (ever decreasing) amount of new stuff, makes it borderline dishonest.
I haven't checked the prices of Invasion singles lately, but I doubt these are very pricey. It's quite easy to pickup any old singles from online vendors, both paper and MTGO.
This is a fair point, although I don't know how many functional reprints this applies to in practice.
No, I didn't "miss the memo". We have yet to see an actual core set designed under this model, but regardless, core sets are still all 100% reprints. They won't be exploring any new design space in them. That's the heart of the matter for me. There's only so many new sets a year. By decreasing the amount of truly new cards, we see less and less new stuff and the game gets stale much more quickly.
If bringing in more players at the expense of keeping long term players ultimately increases their bottom line, then so be it. They are a for-profit corporation after all. It just makes me sad to see them take Richard Garfield's brillant work of art and reduce it to a cash cow.
The cards being reprinted aren't particularly powerful, hard to get, or expense (as far as I know). Let new players pick them up on the secondary market if they want them.
I don't know about other long time players, but for me the only way the game says fun, is if it's kept fresh. Reprints and rehahses don't get me interested or excited. I don't doubt that there's lots and lots of design space to explore (just take a look at the custom card creation forums here). What I do doubt, is that WotC can successfully balance their drive to bring in new players and reduce development costs, against the desire for innovation coming from long time players.
Really, the only two "reprints" that aren't for Limited are PtE and Sedraxis Alchemist. And in both of those cases, they're being modified a little from the original and have a chance (a very good one in PtE's case) of being played, in which case its not a waste.
'Cause it should have been "Ravnica vol.2," right?
Joking aside, you fail at game design. As does WarEmblem.
That might have been true pre-Ravnica, but nowadays I find it hard to believe that casual players still crack packs for the sake of just cracking packs. That's a total waste of a booster. They draft/sealed/minimaster them. So many things you can do with an unopened booster. That's why intro packs come with one now.
Besides, I don't think reprints would actually deprive tournament players of constructed-worthy cards. What do you expect in place of Unsummon?Or Cylian Elf? Despite cries of 'Limited fodder' or 'totally unplayable' Cruel Ultimatum and Blightning have been showing up in top-tier decks. The fact is the set shapes the constructed scene, and not the other way round. There ain't going to be another Mirrodin, so you tournament constructed players ought to learn how to innovate with 'sucky' cards.
To put it simply, Wizards doesn't just make cards. They make sets of cards. I find it a wise thing for Wizards to concentrate on the Limited experience, as it is easier to pick up, requires less of an investment, smoothens out the playability distribution of a set, and most importantly sells more packs.
Level 2 Judge
Token and Playmat Store
Beyond the Guildpact
I'm pretty sure the first draft, I'll get a ton of those and pound people flat with a horde of Thoctars, Gargoyles, War Monks, etc. That card just makes dropping cheap, uncommon bombs quickly, so much easier.
This worries me. Shouldn't white have more than one way to deal with planeswalkers? Are they so hard to handle?!
Spacing them out a bit would be nice though. Oblivion Ring, Cancel, Terramorphic Expanse, and a couple others being reprinted so soon after they had been originally printed was kinda bunk.
So, Unsummon. Sometimes simplicity is good, sometimes it's not. Started playing in the IPA/OTJ type 2, I've seen to many better and, more importantly, prettier versions of this effect to be excited by their predecessor. Not fun. Say, Angelic Shield would fit perfectly into the Bant flavor or even Sigil of Sleep, would be quite a clever reprint... Also, there's already Call to Heel & Excommunicate in the block, which do pretty much the same thing.
Maniacal Rage - simply boring. It may have some impact in limited when putted on one of those protection bears, yet it's very simple and not that great card. Also, it wasn't that long since we've seen Undying Rage which was the same card only with an interesting twist.
Mana Cylix - weak. Really. Color fixing is important in multi-coloured block, sure, but it's just not worth it. And, once again, it hasn't been since we've seen the same effect executed better - Prismatic Lens and Springleaf Drum anyone?
Pro colour bears - a whole cycle of french vanilla critters. Sure, they have an important limited role to fulfill, but really, are they that interesting? Hey, were Barrenton Cragtreads cycle fun? Doubt it.
Worldly Counsel, Gaea's Might - y'know, Invasion had 40 cards dealing with mana fixing and/or land searching while SoA has 18. Sure, Shards are smaller but not that much smaller. Planeshift got another 16. Conflux currently has 4(which is kinda good, hope they keep this proportion}. And you see, domain-mechanic is broken when you have god-tier mana fixing(of "fetch-lands+shock lands" tier), without it it's decent at best. And if in IPA domain mechanic&support for it was spread throught the three sets, it's very likely that in Alara block it will be packed into one small set which is, frankly, not enough. So we'll see another of those ideas lacking flesh to really make it into t2(like it was with slivers or rebels or madness in TPF or with a soldiers/wizards/shamans in LOR/MOR - not enough cards to make a deck).
So, as I said, currently it's looking unimaginative, not bad.
Whoa, hold it! watered down evasion does not compare to "protection from", I think the "Pro bears" may have some interesting interactions, besides standard defense/evasion stuff, anyone remember the allied color enchantments from Shadowmoor? [CARD]Steel of the Godhead
[/CARD] on a pro red creature sounds....tasty.
Especially
Yeah yeah, they've said that a thousand times. But when 1 out of every 10 cards is a reprint, that makes the set BORING! We don't need every card to be innovative, but we do need them to be interesting.
ET
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4
CON should have a Flametongue Kavu functional reprint too.
Ok, really, I just want Planar Chaos 2.0
No.
Because the original will always be the best version. Oh and big deal on quitting. Many more new players will be coming in.
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Man once we have 75% or more of the set then start whining. We don't even know the mechanics of the set yet assuming it has new ones which nearly every set does.
Reprints also are fine if they benefit the set. Man I would love to see old favorites back again. Sure unsummon is not really an "old favorite" but the card doesn't suck.
Most of the others have never been reprinted or haven't seen print in a very long time. Now if we were getting say plain Grizzly Bear, Gray Ogre, Hill Giant in every set then I could think that would be unforgivable.
(The above statement is not meant as a knock on Shards for having vanillas.)
Anyways amount of reprints is irrelevant when 75-90% of every single set ever made is jank and not playable in any format except limited. Very few sets can break out of that hard fact and while some people might play them for fun they sure as heck aren't good enough to see serious play.
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