The card says "I win" as much as Tooth and Nail did.
Tooth and Nail says "I win" either because it goes off and kills the opponent immediately, or it gets something stupid like 11/11 indestructable tramplers and puts them directly into play.
Cruel Ultimatum is a big swing, but it doesn't directly cause you to win the game. Why spend 7 mana on something that will find your win condition? Why not spend 7 mana to play your win condition? Do you think card slots grow on trees? 1-of in Quick'n'Toast-derivates, but no more.
First: Chapin is rarely wrong. I agree with his analysis and I think this is going to be a major card for 5 Color Control. The mana cost is actually laughably easy in a control deck with today's mana bases.
If opponent is aggro, edict + life gain + draw three is about 5 for 1. If you can't win from there you deserve to lose.
If opponent is control, he *will* have three cards and lose a good chunk of his life.
The card says "I win" as much as Tooth and Nail did.
I expect without the snow Phyrexian, Epochrasite, Cloudskate, Venser and *most of all* Damnation, that deck would have been dead in the water.
I forgot Doran, but that's only because it was an inferior deck overall to Elf, so I lumped it in with the other inferior G/B strategies.
If control is letting this card resolve, i really feel sorry for that player. With Cryptic command and the future most used two cc counter FLASHFREEZE in the meta i doubt this thing will ever resolve in a match against control. If you are casting this against aggo, i doubt by turn 7 they will have three cards in hand, and if your spending your time mana ramping or playing cipt lands to fix your colors in 5 color then aggo has already beaten you/your in burn range. This spell wont see play because once people see you have the mana for it you will be dead or have spent 7 mana on a sorcery speed spell that gets countered.
I am calling it right now, FLASHFREEZE is going to be amazing in this meta, it hits 4/5 shards and for a simple 2 mana.:o
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I guess I'm shocked to even see this thread. We can never really tell how a set will impact standard until the pros get a crack at it... but still... there are more cards that are dropping people's jaws in this set during spoilers than we've seen in some time. Almost every leak in the begining people were crazy about, where SHA people did nothing but ***** about how there was nothing good. Now all of the sudden people are saying SHA was better? I'm shocked! This is really the most well designed set in AGES.
I agree with pandafarmer. I am mildly astonished to see this thread, but then I am also not astonished because some MTG players don't like anything until they see it in a net deck.
Admittedly, I am not a spike. But I've seen countless "x card sucks" posts proven wrong.
IMO, this set seems to capture the timmy/johnny/spike ethic in several cards. For instance, Broodmate Dragon really has potential for all three of those players.
In truth, I'm not sure that 100% Spike cards help the game. I don't particularly like playing against some spikes. Many (but not all) spikes aren't good winners, they often pout/whine/make excuses when they lose, they berate MTG product endlessly, they generally don't add to the fun of the game and most importantly: They don't bring new players into the game.
Please understand, I am not talking about all spikes. One of my best friends I would probably characterize as a spike and he is a super-nice guy. But I rarely see newbs come back to the venue after playing against some of the spikes at our venue.
``Everyone should remember that this is only the first set of the block.``-is what I would say if this block didn't make me want to bang my head against the keyboard until the pain stopped. After this sets release we'll see a few cards splashed, maybe some half a**ed artifact archetype that will do well against decks that give it time to move, and elves, faeries, kithkin, etc. Nothing much is going to change. Black loses damnation and gets Infest? Are you kidding? =| Mind you Infest does look promising if your opponets field doesn't go over 3/3's with a lord present that hasn't been bumped to a 3/3 him/herself.
And onto that new counterspell. Not spell snip, the other one; I personally think this would have been a super card if it costed 1UU. But, it doesn't. Which is just going into more about how the above people feel that this set was half hearted, boring, and isn't going to stop little creatures from bashing us in the face, midrange control and other expensive decks still dominating.
But, I'll be buying the first SOA deck that makes a big impact and can beat out Red Revenge, Faeries and Elves. Because, well, aren't you all bored of that crap too?
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Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
During the whole thread if i am remembering right you claimed that alara is a bad set. Now you say that alara will heavily affect the metagame hmm
HUH??!! I dont get it, I said that Shards isnt that great of a set so far, that we need to see the other cards to get it right, and that a 7cc sorcery wont hit play and effect that much because control has Flashfreeze WHICH IS IN TENTH EDITION and aggro will not have a hand/you will be on the fence anyways.
I never said ALARA wouldnt heavily affect the metagame nor that it would, Ofcourse cards of the new set will be played, Does that make them good cards or does a set become defined by a few cards being played...no....but when these cards are played ESPECIALLY referencing the 7cc sorcery Flashfreeze is a great answer for control.
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Tooth and Nail says "I win" either because it goes off and kills the opponent immediately, or it gets something stupid like 11/11 indestructable tramplers and puts them directly into play.
Ah! but keep in mind Tooth was also said to be unplayable at the mana cost, let alone Entwined. This was also the case for Angel of Despair and Firemane Angel.
Ah! but keep in mind Tooth was also said to be unplayable at the mana cost, let alone Entwined. This was also the case for Angel of Despair and Firemane Angel.
I totally agree with you. People, especially spikes, always call the new set crappy when they first see it but when they see that a net deck uses the set then they suddenly change their mind and like it. Most spikes, but not all of course, cant judge a new set, accept its tournament playability and its flavor simply because they dont care about it and in the end they dont know how to make magic decks, they just copy. Also most of them are bad-mannered to noobs(and everyone i guess) and usually they see them as profit.
I bet in the next 2-3 weeks the same people will talk about how great alara is...
I get called a spike player by a lot of my friends due to my constant keeping up with whats winning and just the way I build decks and play, but heres the kicker: My friends are timmy's and johnny's. We all enjoy the game the same amount, I'd say. We all spend the same amount of money on the game a month and all go to the same number of FNM's. This is what's different; They. Don't. Win. This is the case with most Johnny and Timmy players. They simply don't win anywhere NEAR as much as a spike player.
Now, people, we all know what a great card looks like. When you see just a flat out "OMG" card, you call up your friends, tell them about it, then claim that any copies they pull are to be traded to you immediately lol. Which, of course, never works. Getting back on point; I haven't seen one of those in this set. I'm sorry.
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Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Ad nauseum 3BB
Instant
Win the game.
Deck building restriction, cant be placed in a deck with average CC above 1.5.
Seems over powered to me.
Ranger of Eos 3W
Go get 2 maytry of sands
Seems strong in extended.
Tezzeret 3UU
Untap with me in play, win the game.
Wild Nacatl G
3/3
Efficient much?
Bant charm GUW
condemn a creature with no life gain, counter an instant or destroy target artifact.
Seems solid filler.
Rafiq the many 1WGU
1 creature you control swings per turn
Exaulted
Double strike on exaulted creatures.
Just dumb... so dumb.
Rhox war monk WGU
lifelink
3/4
as good or better then finks...
I understand people dont want to look at anything but the "big" rares but the set is super solid and I kept thinking its a stupid set, It has at least 1 card thats getting banned in the first banning cycle. Stupid ad nauseum..
Ah! but keep in mind Tooth was also said to be unplayable at the mana cost, let alone Entwined. This was also the case for Angel of Despair and Firemane Angel.
Yes, people did say Tooth was unplayable at it's mana cost. And it is. But if you aren't tapping 9 lands for it, it's a pretty damn good deal. If you can pay for a Ultimatum with less than 7 mana sources, more power to you, but at 7, of some insane color requirements, good luck with that, ser. Anybody that said Angel of Despair was unplayable had no grasp of card quality anyway.
Now you're just making things up good ser. Let me go down these card by card.
Upheaval was overcosted, Psychatog however, was terribly undercosted, effeicent by himself, and incredibly synergistic with Upheaval.
Anybody that said Cryptic Command was overcosted doesn't deserve to be playing competitive magic.
Dragonstorm is also overcosted, and is unplayable at it's cost, but like Tooth, when you play it off of 3-4 lands, it's pretty winning the game. Also, Storm is the most broken mechanic there is.
I'll give you Hellkite, people did say that, and still do.
Shriekmaw? really? Teferi? Demigod? You do know that the wikipedia argument of "Some people state" is a terrible argument right? Some people think Chimney Imp is the best card in magic. Some people thing Yawgmoth's Will and Bargain aren't broken in half. Arguing with a troll isn't worth it. Ti's either that or you have no understanding of logic.
First: Chapin is rarely wrong. I agree with his analysis and I think this is going to be a major card for 5 Color Control. The mana cost is actually laughably easy in a control deck with today's mana bases.
First:Chapin is a damn hack. If innovation is blatently stealing deck ideas with no credit to the creator, then I don't want any of that. You also vastly overestimate current day mana bases. Paying RRUUUBB is damn hard. this is not Hybrid.
If opponent is aggro, edict + life gain + draw three is about 5 for 1. If you can't win from there you deserve to lose.
If your aggro opponent hasn't killed you by the time you cast this, and couldn't kill you after you tap out to gain 5 life and edict him, he wasn't winning anytime soon. Cruel Ultimatum is a textbook example of a win more card.
I get called a spike player by a lot of my friends due to my constant keeping up with whats winning and just the way I build decks and play, but heres the kicker: My friends are timmy's and johnny's. We all enjoy the game the same amount, I'd say. We all spend the same amount of money on the game a month and all go to the same number of FNM's. This is what's different; They. Don't. Win. This is the case with most Johnny and Timmy players. They simply don't win anywhere NEAR as much as a spike player.
Now, people, we all know what a great card looks like. When you see just a flat out "OMG" card, you call up your friends, tell them about it, then claim that any copies they pull are to be traded to you immediately lol. Which, of course, never works. Getting back on point; I haven't seen one of those in this set. I'm sorry.
I'd disagree. Quite a bit, actually.
Many, many of the cards that you'd label right now as Spike cards were entirely MISSED by spikes, talked down, and were able to be gotten inexpensively, right up until it got broken in half by some pro or at a PTQ.
Go look up the threads from when they were spoiled, you'll see that many of the darlings of the "spikes" where heavily talked down, and many of the ones that were lauded you'd have a hard time moving for a dollar.
Sure, there are obvious ones like Mutavault, that everyone knew was going to be in juat about EVERYTHING, but by and large most of the spikes, and most of the people here don't know near as much as they think they do.
Just to stem off any argument, I'll happily admit right now that I don't know anything, but I do know that history bears out the fact that people making brash claims about the quality of sets and cards from spoilers tend to be frequently, and wildly, wrong.
I like Alara, as I think its a very classic Magic set, it feels like it was designed a long time ago and has just been waiting to see the light of day. That being said, spikes will get over the set because as many others have stated, they win. And it doesn't matter to them what they play, they play to win. So whatever comes out of Alara that helps them win, will ultimately shut them up. There will never be a perfect magic set, and yes, Alara is arguably aimed more towards the timmies out ther, but when stuff like that happens, what really ends up changing is how the players are defined. When all spike has to work with is timmy cards and some spike cards, the player fields blend and a new spike is formed. Spike has never been a constant in my opinion as its always just the cards that win.
All of that out of the way, a 3-color theme was a dangerous move considering the amount of color hate in previous sets and core set. Flashfreeze will be dangerous, as will anything else that hits specific colors. Chaotic Backlash may even find a place if things slow down enough, which of coure would be bitter sweet as the card is cool, but its art is bad.
So yes I'm enjoying what you define as a lack of power, but rather I'm enjoying seeing people fret over how much competitive Magic has to change because it loses a turn or two. People were absolutely spoiled with Morningtide, did everyone like how amazingly good those cards were. I hope not, because personally, i feel that takes a lot of strategy out of Magic. The decks that came out of TSP-LOR were boring for the most part. In fact, I feel like it was great with RAV-TSP, poor with TSP-LOR, and I'm looking forward to LOR-ALA, i mean, there's a new good target for mannequin, almost as decent as SSS, just more controlish...
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Ah! but keep in mind Tooth was also said to be unplayable at the mana cost, let alone Entwined. This was also the case for Angel of Despair and Firemane Angel.
Yeah I remember the days when Tooth was a $1 card considered as Timmy fodder. That was before PT Kobe though. However it was printed in the same block as Cloudpost, Sylvan Scrying, and Reap and Sow which readily gave access to easy mana.
I should write an article about cards that go under the radar and then get broken.
I don't see lack of power in this set. There are many ridiculously good and efficient low-cost spells like the Wild Nacatl, the 2-mana multicolor spells and the 5 charms. In the end low-cc cards will always be the most played of any set anyways, so why the complaint? Yes the set is full of sucky fatties but expensive cards don't see that much play anyways.
Design is another thing... And yes I would agree that most of the themes in Alara suck hard. I say "most" because Esper is shaping up to be very broken with ridiculous enablers such as the Canonist, Master of Etherium and that Talisman guy... Not to mention Tezzeret and the white Disk.
But where are the enablers for Devour? For Exhume? For Naya's 5-power theme?
Exalted actually has a few cards I would want to play with like Rafiq of the Many... It's still nowhere near what Esper has but at least this theme doesn't look like such a bust.
As for the remaining horrible, horrible cycles... The less is said about Heralds, mythic Shard Legends, supercycling and Ultimatums, the better.
You have never played with the free mechanic sir, and the dredge mechanic is approximately tied with the storm mechanic. The free mechanic is "Untap lands = to CC" Go play vs acadamy.dec feel violated, then resume playing magic.
Anybody that said Cryptic Command was overcosted doesn't deserve to be playing competitive magic.
Could be like me an eternal player. Counterspells costing more then "Pitch a blue card" "return an island to your hand" or "UU gain the mana back" are indeed over costed but its still a good card, just a little too high costed for my taste.
On topic I think this set is rather high in power, even tide was really low powered (And had 1 card that has POTENTIAL to impact other formats) this set I have seen at least 10 cards I WILL be playing extended/legecy/vintage.
Once again on topic, Ad nauseum is broked in half behind is back and down to the nubs of that guys arms.
You have never played with the free mechanic sir, and the dredge mechanic is approximately tied with the storm mechanic. The free mechanic is "Untap lands = to CC" Go play vs acadamy.dec feel violated, then resume playing magic.
Could be like me an eternal player. Counterspells costing more then "Pitch a blue card" "return an island to your hand" or "UU gain the mana back" are indeed over costed but its still a good card, just a little too high costed for my taste.
On topic I think this set is rather high in power, even tide was really low powered (And had 1 card that has POTENTIAL to impact other formats) this set I have seen at least 10 cards I WILL be playing extended/legecy/vintage.
Once again on topic, Ad nauseum is broked in half behind is back and down to the nubs of that guys arms.
I agree, the free mechanic was BUSTED IN HALF. Frantic Search was and is beyond bonkers.
Well the point of this thread wasn't to be one of "those" threads, but it sure turned into one...
Many of the cards you guys are pointing out as "great" I couldn't disagree more with. Many of the cards you say are "solid" I said there would be. By the same token, I'm sure there are "sleeper" cards.
But, thank you for posting your complaints. That's what makes me enjoy the set: watching half of you complain, and watching the other half try to justify the power of jank.
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
Well the point of this thread wasn't to be one of "those" threads, but it sure turned into one...
Many of the cards you guys are pointing out as "great" I couldn't disagree more with. Many of the cards you say are "solid" I said there would be. By the same token, I'm sure there are "sleeper" cards.
But, thank you for posting your complaints. That's what makes me enjoy the set: watching half of you complain, and watching the other half try to justify the power of jank.
I'm sure the condescending attitude goes a long way towards making people take you seriously.
Alot of cards look good for formats other than T2...it's still too early to tell but alot of the cards I'm actually in favor of. Plus for players of goofy casual formats like singleton/highlander, this is a fun set (yea not really gonna gather too many on that one but im throwing it out there). Limited with this will be fun as well
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
maybe the set as a whole isn't terrible, but i'd really like to hear how someone can think that the Grixis shard isn't god awful. Black's my favorite color with demons, zombie, and vampires being my favorite creature types. i wanted SO BADLY for grixis to be playable, and it really really really isn't. sure bant, naya, and esper have very playable cards but grixis really got hosed bad.
Funny stuff man, that's exactly what happened back when MirrorMaster Kithkin.deck was beginning to rock the block tourneys. There is one of these Spikes that suddenly dropped his Elves and Faeries in favor of the Kithkin, and he won a FNM or two. He was declaring at the end of the first FNM that he always wanted to play Kithkin :rolleyes:. Where was he when Lorwyn + Morningtide was played?
Probably waiting for mirrorweave, spectral procession, and figure of destiny. Those kind of took kithkin to the next level. Granted he could've switched earlier and probably had some success but kithkin weren't that great before shadowmoor.
I don't see lack of power in this set. There are many ridiculously good and efficient low-cost spells like the Wild Nacatl, the 2-mana multicolor spells and the 5 charms. In the end low-cc cards will always be the most played of any set anyways, so why the complaint? Yes the set is full of sucky fatties but expensive cards don't see that much play anyways.
Design is another thing... And yes I would agree that most of the themes in Alara suck hard. I say "most" because Esper is shaping up to be very broken with ridiculous enablers such as the Canonist, Master of Etherium and that Talisman guy... Not to mention Tezzeret and the white Disk.
But where are the enablers for Devour? For Exhume? For Naya's 5-power theme?
Exalted actually has a few cards I would want to play with like Rafiq of the Many... It's still nowhere near what Esper has but at least this theme doesn't look like such a bust.
As for the remaining horrible, horrible cycles... The less is said about Heralds, mythic Shard Legends, supercycling and Ultimatums, the better.
As far as enablers
for devourer there is goblin fodder, mana weenies, Sprouting Thrinex, Sarkhan vol, and unearth creatures (I think u listed them as exhume). Out of block you have bitterblossom, grave pact, goblin siege commander, murderous redcap, etc.
Unearth has simply casting the creatures yourself, but doesn't have any discard outlets yet but I expect that to change.if you go lorywn block you pick up Oona's prowler. regardless you get two uses out of a high amount of creatures, which could prove to be very powerful. Its main problem is going to be the amount of graveyard hate already waiting for it.
Naya I really don't have any thing for them, which sucks its, its really a timmy theme (5+ power), I would have much perfered a land matters theme (if they were worried about shocks they could've just said basic lands), because that would promote good deck building (a mana base with a lot of basics, and three colors would be interesting, and test skill levels unless someone 100% net decks which I don't see that often) compared to creatures with over 5 power (which besides wooly thoctar they really haven't printed a whole lot that will see competitive play granted oversoul of dusk does fit in). I would love it if they print some good enablers but I don't see it, happening to the level that a naya deck designed around the main theme reaches constructed tier 2. That said naya zoo may work, in extended, with shocks.
Exalted is interesting, and I think will have some impact on the meta, but people need to stop worrying about just winning through exalted, in a lot of situations its going to better to swing with several creatures at once rather then pump one attacker, most of the cards for exalted really aren't that bad without their bonus's for attacking alone. Plus stoic angel is really good.
Esper Im hoping that we've seen most of the power cards, cause otherwise esper is going to be the best shard by far, it has good removal, good control elements, and planeswalker that gives them a toolbox effect.
You have never played with the free mechanic sir, and the dredge mechanic is approximately tied with the storm mechanic. The free mechanic is "Untap lands = to CC" Go play vs acadamy.dec feel violated, then resume playing magic.
I don't think you need to be condescending on this point. You have no clue what I have and have not played, good ser, and I have played vintage. I know what it feels like to have your opponent tap his Academy 4 times at the "cost" of drawing 2 or 7 cards. I know of the power of those, and I don't need a reminder. I'll concede that the untap mechanic is more powerful than storm (my bad I haven't played vintage for about 3 years) I will not concede that Dredge is more powerful than Storm however.
Could be like me an eternal player. Counterspells costing more then "Pitch a blue card" "return an island to your hand" or "UU gain the mana back" are indeed over costed but its still a good card, just a little too high costed for my taste.
The difference here is that you are the exception to the rule. Cryptic Command is hands down the best Blue card in Standard.
On topic I think this set is rather high in power, even tide was really low powered (And had 1 card that has POTENTIAL to impact other formats) this set I have seen at least 10 cards I WILL be playing extended/legecy/vintage.
Once again on topic, Ad nauseum is broked in half behind is back and down to the nubs of that guys arms.
I guess here's my problem. When I'm talking about the playability of this set, I'm speaking of Standard. I agree that extended and legacy will be seeing a lot more action from Shards than Standard will. The difference is the standard used to gauge power in other formats. When shards rotates into Standard, it will be about 1/5 of the card pool (give or take, I don't need somebody giving me an exact number, it's just a point) That means we should see a larger impact on Standard than we see on Extended, where it will be something like 1/30 of the card pool, or Legacy where it's about 1/120 of the card pool.
Well i dont know you, but what i know is that you speak bluntly in every post you make against others that have different opinions than you. Feel free to tell your opinion but we are free to speak of ourselves too we dont need you to critisize everything we say and answer in a way that you know everything and we know nothing.:mad:
It's the internet dude, if we can't be blunt here, where can we be. Feel free to critisize me all you want. And I'll feel free to fire back. I might piss of a couple people, and might get pissed at people, but at the end of the day, it's because we all care about the game, right?
I still think Spell Snip isn't so bad... At least it replaces itself late game where Mana Leak could possibly sit there collecting dust.
Except Mana Leak costs only 2, so it can help win counter wars. It makes the opponent pay 3 to resolve a spell, which is much more likely to counter something in the late game, and Spell Snip is strictly worse than Runeboggle, which was only played by one wizard (Me, and it was because I couldn't afford Remand for my Dragonstorm deck.)
The charms are going to be played, you've got me there, but if I ever see Cruel Ultimatum at top tables, I'd probably eat my own food. A statement like that shows a gross misunderstanding of the way competitive constructed is played.
"Cruel Ultimatum will change everything", by Pat Chapin, a man who has no idea how competitive constructed is played.
I'm sure the condescending attitude goes a long way towards making people take you seriously.
What was condescending? I said I disagreed with some of you on some cards. Everyone has their own opinion. There are some, IMO, bad cards that people seem to think will be good; there are some cards that I probably think are good while others don't; and there are those we can agree upon that people are pointing out toward ALA's power. However, they are few and far between, and I'm having fun hearing complaints to that end. I could care less if the set is terrible or not overall, in fact I expressed my gratefulness that it's not too good (compared to the LOR/MIR types).
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
Tooth and Nail says "I win" either because it goes off and kills the opponent immediately, or it gets something stupid like 11/11 indestructable tramplers and puts them directly into play.
Cruel Ultimatum is a big swing, but it doesn't directly cause you to win the game. Why spend 7 mana on something that will find your win condition? Why not spend 7 mana to play your win condition? Do you think card slots grow on trees? 1-of in Quick'n'Toast-derivates, but no more.
Yeah. It's like deflation, but for power.
If control is letting this card resolve, i really feel sorry for that player. With Cryptic command and the future most used two cc counter FLASHFREEZE in the meta i doubt this thing will ever resolve in a match against control. If you are casting this against aggo, i doubt by turn 7 they will have three cards in hand, and if your spending your time mana ramping or playing cipt lands to fix your colors in 5 color then aggo has already beaten you/your in burn range. This spell wont see play because once people see you have the mana for it you will be dead or have spent 7 mana on a sorcery speed spell that gets countered.
I am calling it right now, FLASHFREEZE is going to be amazing in this meta, it hits 4/5 shards and for a simple 2 mana.:o
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I agree with pandafarmer. I am mildly astonished to see this thread, but then I am also not astonished because some MTG players don't like anything until they see it in a net deck.
Admittedly, I am not a spike. But I've seen countless "x card sucks" posts proven wrong.
IMO, this set seems to capture the timmy/johnny/spike ethic in several cards. For instance, Broodmate Dragon really has potential for all three of those players.
In truth, I'm not sure that 100% Spike cards help the game. I don't particularly like playing against some spikes. Many (but not all) spikes aren't good winners, they often pout/whine/make excuses when they lose, they berate MTG product endlessly, they generally don't add to the fun of the game and most importantly: They don't bring new players into the game.
Please understand, I am not talking about all spikes. One of my best friends I would probably characterize as a spike and he is a super-nice guy. But I rarely see newbs come back to the venue after playing against some of the spikes at our venue.
And onto that new counterspell. Not spell snip, the other one; I personally think this would have been a super card if it costed 1UU. But, it doesn't. Which is just going into more about how the above people feel that this set was half hearted, boring, and isn't going to stop little creatures from bashing us in the face, midrange control and other expensive decks still dominating.
But, I'll be buying the first SOA deck that makes a big impact and can beat out Red Revenge, Faeries and Elves. Because, well, aren't you all bored of that crap too?
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
HUH??!! I dont get it, I said that Shards isnt that great of a set so far, that we need to see the other cards to get it right, and that a 7cc sorcery wont hit play and effect that much because control has Flashfreeze WHICH IS IN TENTH EDITION and aggro will not have a hand/you will be on the fence anyways.
I never said ALARA wouldnt heavily affect the metagame nor that it would, Ofcourse cards of the new set will be played, Does that make them good cards or does a set become defined by a few cards being played...no....but when these cards are played ESPECIALLY referencing the 7cc sorcery Flashfreeze is a great answer for control.
Thanks to Mr. Stuff aka Senior Stuff for the Awesome Banner!!:D
Ah! but keep in mind Tooth was also said to be unplayable at the mana cost, let alone Entwined. This was also the case for Angel of Despair and Firemane Angel.
And Upheaval, Cryptic Command, Bogardian Hellkite, Dragonstorm, Shriekmaw, Tefari... Heck, some folks even said that about Demigod of Revenge:p.
I get called a spike player by a lot of my friends due to my constant keeping up with whats winning and just the way I build decks and play, but heres the kicker: My friends are timmy's and johnny's. We all enjoy the game the same amount, I'd say. We all spend the same amount of money on the game a month and all go to the same number of FNM's. This is what's different; They. Don't. Win. This is the case with most Johnny and Timmy players. They simply don't win anywhere NEAR as much as a spike player.
Now, people, we all know what a great card looks like. When you see just a flat out "OMG" card, you call up your friends, tell them about it, then claim that any copies they pull are to be traded to you immediately lol. Which, of course, never works. Getting back on point; I haven't seen one of those in this set. I'm sorry.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Instant
Win the game.
Deck building restriction, cant be placed in a deck with average CC above 1.5.
Seems over powered to me.
Ranger of Eos 3W
Go get 2 maytry of sands
Seems strong in extended.
Tezzeret 3UU
Untap with me in play, win the game.
Wild Nacatl G
3/3
Efficient much?
Bant charm GUW
condemn a creature with no life gain, counter an instant or destroy target artifact.
Seems solid filler.
Rafiq the many 1WGU
1 creature you control swings per turn
Exaulted
Double strike on exaulted creatures.
Just dumb... so dumb.
Rhox war monk WGU
lifelink
3/4
as good or better then finks...
I understand people dont want to look at anything but the "big" rares but the set is super solid and I kept thinking its a stupid set, It has at least 1 card thats getting banned in the first banning cycle. Stupid ad nauseum..
Wizards in relation to modern.
"The bannings will continue until attendance improves."
Not sure if trolling or just very stupid.:fry:
Yes, people did say Tooth was unplayable at it's mana cost. And it is. But if you aren't tapping 9 lands for it, it's a pretty damn good deal. If you can pay for a Ultimatum with less than 7 mana sources, more power to you, but at 7, of some insane color requirements, good luck with that, ser. Anybody that said Angel of Despair was unplayable had no grasp of card quality anyway.
Now you're just making things up good ser. Let me go down these card by card.
Upheaval was overcosted, Psychatog however, was terribly undercosted, effeicent by himself, and incredibly synergistic with Upheaval.
Anybody that said Cryptic Command was overcosted doesn't deserve to be playing competitive magic.
Dragonstorm is also overcosted, and is unplayable at it's cost, but like Tooth, when you play it off of 3-4 lands, it's pretty winning the game. Also, Storm is the most broken mechanic there is.
I'll give you Hellkite, people did say that, and still do.
Shriekmaw? really? Teferi? Demigod? You do know that the wikipedia argument of "Some people state" is a terrible argument right? Some people think Chimney Imp is the best card in magic. Some people thing Yawgmoth's Will and Bargain aren't broken in half. Arguing with a troll isn't worth it. Ti's either that or you have no understanding of logic.
First:Chapin is a damn hack. If innovation is blatently stealing deck ideas with no credit to the creator, then I don't want any of that. You also vastly overestimate current day mana bases. Paying RRUUUBB is damn hard. this is not Hybrid.
If your aggro opponent hasn't killed you by the time you cast this, and couldn't kill you after you tap out to gain 5 life and edict him, he wasn't winning anytime soon. Cruel Ultimatum is a textbook example of a win more card.
If your opponent lets this resolve, he wasn't winning anytime soon anyway.
No. It does not. It says "win more" Tooth and Nail is a combo card. This is a bad control card.
I'd disagree. Quite a bit, actually.
Many, many of the cards that you'd label right now as Spike cards were entirely MISSED by spikes, talked down, and were able to be gotten inexpensively, right up until it got broken in half by some pro or at a PTQ.
Go look up the threads from when they were spoiled, you'll see that many of the darlings of the "spikes" where heavily talked down, and many of the ones that were lauded you'd have a hard time moving for a dollar.
Sure, there are obvious ones like Mutavault, that everyone knew was going to be in juat about EVERYTHING, but by and large most of the spikes, and most of the people here don't know near as much as they think they do.
Just to stem off any argument, I'll happily admit right now that I don't know anything, but I do know that history bears out the fact that people making brash claims about the quality of sets and cards from spoilers tend to be frequently, and wildly, wrong.
All of that out of the way, a 3-color theme was a dangerous move considering the amount of color hate in previous sets and core set. Flashfreeze will be dangerous, as will anything else that hits specific colors. Chaotic Backlash may even find a place if things slow down enough, which of coure would be bitter sweet as the card is cool, but its art is bad.
So yes I'm enjoying what you define as a lack of power, but rather I'm enjoying seeing people fret over how much competitive Magic has to change because it loses a turn or two. People were absolutely spoiled with Morningtide, did everyone like how amazingly good those cards were. I hope not, because personally, i feel that takes a lot of strategy out of Magic. The decks that came out of TSP-LOR were boring for the most part. In fact, I feel like it was great with RAV-TSP, poor with TSP-LOR, and I'm looking forward to LOR-ALA, i mean, there's a new good target for mannequin, almost as decent as SSS, just more controlish...
Yeah I remember the days when Tooth was a $1 card considered as Timmy fodder. That was before PT Kobe though. However it was printed in the same block as Cloudpost, Sylvan Scrying, and Reap and Sow which readily gave access to easy mana.
I should write an article about cards that go under the radar and then get broken.
Design is another thing... And yes I would agree that most of the themes in Alara suck hard. I say "most" because Esper is shaping up to be very broken with ridiculous enablers such as the Canonist, Master of Etherium and that Talisman guy... Not to mention Tezzeret and the white Disk.
But where are the enablers for Devour? For Exhume? For Naya's 5-power theme?
Exalted actually has a few cards I would want to play with like Rafiq of the Many... It's still nowhere near what Esper has but at least this theme doesn't look like such a bust.
As for the remaining horrible, horrible cycles... The less is said about Heralds, mythic Shard Legends, supercycling and Ultimatums, the better.
You have never played with the free mechanic sir, and the dredge mechanic is approximately tied with the storm mechanic. The free mechanic is "Untap lands = to CC" Go play vs acadamy.dec feel violated, then resume playing magic.
Could be like me an eternal player. Counterspells costing more then "Pitch a blue card" "return an island to your hand" or "UU gain the mana back" are indeed over costed but its still a good card, just a little too high costed for my taste.
On topic I think this set is rather high in power, even tide was really low powered (And had 1 card that has POTENTIAL to impact other formats) this set I have seen at least 10 cards I WILL be playing extended/legecy/vintage.
Once again on topic, Ad nauseum is broked in half behind is back and down to the nubs of that guys arms.
Wizards in relation to modern.
"The bannings will continue until attendance improves."
Not sure if trolling or just very stupid.:fry:
I agree, the free mechanic was BUSTED IN HALF. Frantic Search was and is beyond bonkers.
Many of the cards you guys are pointing out as "great" I couldn't disagree more with. Many of the cards you say are "solid" I said there would be. By the same token, I'm sure there are "sleeper" cards.
But, thank you for posting your complaints. That's what makes me enjoy the set: watching half of you complain, and watching the other half try to justify the power of jank.
Guildmaster Jarad
I'm sure the condescending attitude goes a long way towards making people take you seriously.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Probably waiting for mirrorweave, spectral procession, and figure of destiny. Those kind of took kithkin to the next level. Granted he could've switched earlier and probably had some success but kithkin weren't that great before shadowmoor.
As far as enablers
for devourer there is goblin fodder, mana weenies, Sprouting Thrinex, Sarkhan vol, and unearth creatures (I think u listed them as exhume). Out of block you have bitterblossom, grave pact, goblin siege commander, murderous redcap, etc.
Unearth has simply casting the creatures yourself, but doesn't have any discard outlets yet but I expect that to change.if you go lorywn block you pick up Oona's prowler. regardless you get two uses out of a high amount of creatures, which could prove to be very powerful. Its main problem is going to be the amount of graveyard hate already waiting for it.
Naya I really don't have any thing for them, which sucks its, its really a timmy theme (5+ power), I would have much perfered a land matters theme (if they were worried about shocks they could've just said basic lands), because that would promote good deck building (a mana base with a lot of basics, and three colors would be interesting, and test skill levels unless someone 100% net decks which I don't see that often) compared to creatures with over 5 power (which besides wooly thoctar they really haven't printed a whole lot that will see competitive play granted oversoul of dusk does fit in). I would love it if they print some good enablers but I don't see it, happening to the level that a naya deck designed around the main theme reaches constructed tier 2. That said naya zoo may work, in extended, with shocks.
Exalted is interesting, and I think will have some impact on the meta, but people need to stop worrying about just winning through exalted, in a lot of situations its going to better to swing with several creatures at once rather then pump one attacker, most of the cards for exalted really aren't that bad without their bonus's for attacking alone. Plus stoic angel is really good.
Esper Im hoping that we've seen most of the power cards, cause otherwise esper is going to be the best shard by far, it has good removal, good control elements, and planeswalker that gives them a toolbox effect.
I don't think you need to be condescending on this point. You have no clue what I have and have not played, good ser, and I have played vintage. I know what it feels like to have your opponent tap his Academy 4 times at the "cost" of drawing 2 or 7 cards. I know of the power of those, and I don't need a reminder. I'll concede that the untap mechanic is more powerful than storm (my bad I haven't played vintage for about 3 years) I will not concede that Dredge is more powerful than Storm however.
The difference here is that you are the exception to the rule. Cryptic Command is hands down the best Blue card in Standard.
I guess here's my problem. When I'm talking about the playability of this set, I'm speaking of Standard. I agree that extended and legacy will be seeing a lot more action from Shards than Standard will. The difference is the standard used to gauge power in other formats. When shards rotates into Standard, it will be about 1/5 of the card pool (give or take, I don't need somebody giving me an exact number, it's just a point) That means we should see a larger impact on Standard than we see on Extended, where it will be something like 1/30 of the card pool, or Legacy where it's about 1/120 of the card pool.
It's the internet dude, if we can't be blunt here, where can we be. Feel free to critisize me all you want. And I'll feel free to fire back. I might piss of a couple people, and might get pissed at people, but at the end of the day, it's because we all care about the game, right?
Anyway, back to blasting things on the internet.
Mythic Rares suck.</ontopic>
Except Mana Leak costs only 2, so it can help win counter wars. It makes the opponent pay 3 to resolve a spell, which is much more likely to counter something in the late game, and Spell Snip is strictly worse than Runeboggle, which was only played by one wizard (Me, and it was because I couldn't afford Remand for my Dragonstorm deck.)
Couldn't possibly be because Esper has an artifact matters theme, could it?
"Cruel Ultimatum will change everything", by Pat Chapin, a man who has no idea how competitive constructed is played.
Guildmaster Jarad