I really don't understand why people think the Swans are so good. They die to almost every black removal spell in the set. I don't know what kind of combo you guys are looking for but these guys are just horrible in my opinion. If you're going to play Blue/White play control not a bad combo.
I really don't understand why people think the Swans are so good. They die to almost every black removal spell in the set. I don't know what kind of combo you guys are looking for but these guys are just horrible in my opinion. If you're going to play Blue/White play control not a bad combo.
Name five creatures played on a regular basis in Standard that don't die to some piece of removal that someone might play.
"This creature is terrible, it dies to removal" is the worst argument against using a creature that anyone has come up with. I don't understand why people keep using it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
98% of the internet population has a Myspace. If you're part of the 2% that isn't an emo, copy and paste this into your sig.
Hey, you. Yes, you reading this sig. Get off your computer, go find a copy of Skies of Arcadia: Legends and play it. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.
I really don't understand why people think the Swans are so good. They die to almost every black removal spell in the set. I don't know what kind of combo you guys are looking for but these guys are just horrible in my opinion. If you're going to play Blue/White play control not a bad combo.
I agree. I personally don't play anything but lands in my decks, because almost everything else is hosed by Cancel.
Your point about the Swans is even more true, though, since blue and white have absolutely no way to protect creatures against removal. Thus, the Swans are particularly awful.
there's no removal-immune creature because that is impossible. I guess the closest thing would be a Darksteel Colossus, but even that gets Crib Swapped.
I'd say the Demigod of Revenge will be played heavily and is removal-resilient.
The worst things about changelings is that you can't use them with Goblins of the Flarg.
That will do me. Brilliant. Flarg.dec will be completely hosed by the changelings. Now if your opponent could give you one - your Flargs would still be ... gone.
and i hope this was sarcasm:
"Your point about the Swans is even more true, though, since blue and white have absolutely no way to protect creatures against removal. Thus, the Swans are particularly awful."
I really don't understand why people think the Swans are so good. They die to almost every black removal spell in the set. I don't know what kind of combo you guys are looking for but these guys are just horrible in my opinion. If you're going to play Blue/White play control not a bad combo.
Swan-Assault deck can kill oponent in resp on removal\disenchant spell.
They do die to every good black removal spell in standard, but for white only obivilion ring stops them, and red + green can only draw cards. The key is that if you build the deck around them you should benefit more from them. Also most of the builds I've tend to run over the black builds (bitterblossom control, faeries) because they run lots of board sweepers. they may have more issues with rock but I don't run it too much of it anymore at all.
Please don't call this card horrible until you see a Seismic Assault player draw his entire library in a couple of turns. If you still dislike it, then fine.
They do die to every good black removal spell in standard, but for white only obivilion ring stops them, and red + green can only draw cards. The key is that if you build the deck around them you should benefit more from them. Also most of the builds I've tend to run over the black builds (bitterblossom control, faeries) because they run lots of board sweepers. they may have more issues with rock but I don't run it too much of it anymore at all.
Wait...is it suddenly immune to Crib Swap and Condemn?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
98% of the internet population has a Myspace. If you're part of the 2% that isn't an emo, copy and paste this into your sig.
Hey, you. Yes, you reading this sig. Get off your computer, go find a copy of Skies of Arcadia: Legends and play it. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.
It's a 4-power evasive beatstick in the air for 4 that won't die to red removal (even though the opponent recalls off of a main phased sulfurous blast, you've still got a resilient beater in the air.) You could splash it in white/red aggro and use it as much need card draw, or you could run it in a blue/red counterburn style deck (in which case you can probably rune snag their sulfurous blast). It turns sideways to remove a fifth of their life total, and when they have blockers, you'll hopefully be playing burn-type removal that you were already running to combo with it yourself (you'll be the one playing the sulfurous blasts).
It's an interesting card to say the least.
True, if you're going to play blue white, you might be better with control, but this guy is not straight blue white... He's more likely meant for blue red or white red.
I really don't understand why people think Tarmogoyfs are so good. They die to almost every black removal spell in the set.
*fixed (granted, a Goyf does not usually die to nameless inversion, but it still can)
Wait...is it suddenly immune to Crib Swap and Condemn?
Yeah you have a point there (its been a while seen I've ran into anything running white for more then aven riftwatcher, oblivion ring, mirror entity, and reveillark) either way neither option nets the opposing player new cards. I am just trying to say that there aren't a lot of good removal options for it that net the other player a few more card draws which makes it a 4/3 flier for 4 which is pretty nice.
This is a poorly crafted argument solely propositioned to create controversy. Swans is a 4/3 flying for 4 mana that doesn't die to damage. Its damage-prevention ability is even more useful when YOU do damage to it. And it doesn't even die to EVERY black removal (Tendrils of Corruption/Corrupt/Consume Spirit et al). Swans will only not see play if it doesn't find a home, and it already has (Swan Assault.dec), but it could also go into a white weenie deck as an effective finisher.
its like saying
Tarmogoyf is bad because it dies to terror.
Scion of Oona is bad because it dies to Sudden Shock
Sower of temptation sucks because a Shock kills it
Birds of paradise sucks because every removal spell kills it
Revilark is bad because cribswap gets rid of it
Doran is bad because lightning axe kills it
Ohran viper is bad because incinerate kills it.
Planeswalkers are bad because i can lava axe them.
It's not just about whether or not the creature can be killed, but whether or not it can be killed efficiently. Chameleon Colossus is good because only Oblivion Ring and Deathtouch creatures can 1-for-1 it. Tarmogoyf is good because your opponent can't win any tempo when they kill it. Swans is bad because it dies to everything but burn, and burn gives your opponent infinite cards (which they then throw at your face, which is the gameplan of a burn deck).
Bad players will play Swans and only bad players will lose to Swans.
Scion of Oona is bad because it dies to Sudden Shock
no one plays Sudden Shock
Sower of temptation sucks because a Shock kills it
This is true, and a good reason why Sower isn't format-dominating. The reason it's played is that it's a 1-card combo for a ton of tempo and card advantage, and even if they kill it you're not set back much.
Birds of paradise sucks because every removal spell kills it
for more than you spent for the Birds, earning you free tempo...
Revilark is bad because cribswap gets rid of it
no one plays Crib Swap
Doran is bad because lightning axe kills it
no one plays Lightning Axe
Ohran viper is bad because incinerate kills it.
correct, and thus no one plays Ohran Viper
Planeswalkers are bad because i can lava axe them.
fixed
if you play them you should win within that or the next turn or your deck is built to abuse/negate it's drawback on a longterm.
Its drawback is that it's a 4/3 flyer for 4 with no meaningful protection (and with a instant-game-loss drawback against burn, which is prevalent). Your opponent will spend two or three mana to kill it, earning them tempo, and bringing you closer to your demise. You will play it with high hopes, and then your opponent will immediately remove it, and you will be sad.
What about weight of conscience or Linify for green, linify is pretty good a 0/4 tree with no abilities will not stop what green has. green has removal, it's just a tad different from the rest, look at mercy killing, hit it with that and you have 4x 1/1 vanilla elves to deal with. Swan combos are not invulnerable but they are not- not worth playing because of a few removal spells. I think the big question is yeah, you can draw cards with the swan but what do you want to draw into?
Using Swans with Wave of Reckoning is also a good idea. Draw four cards and get rid of everything on the board, leaving you with a flying beater? Sign me up! (I know it's not legal in standard, but I thought it's so tricky, I could mention it here)
This is a good example of the thinking that leads people to think Swans are good. With another card, sure, they can be good. But what if you only draw the other card (which, like Seismic Assault and Fatal Attraction, is probably unplayable on its own) and not the Swans, or the Swans and not the other card? Instant Lose. Just play a good deck with good cards.
I just realized that I should actually be playing up the Swans so that I can dump them quick when their price is inflated, so I'll be leaving now. They're actually great, format-defining even, so I won't let them go for less than a Tarmagoyf a piece, because they're worth it. Really.
I really don't understand why people think the Swans are so good. They die to almost every black removal spell in the set. I don't know what kind of combo you guys are looking for but these guys are just horrible in my opinion. If you're going to play Blue/White play control not a bad combo.
/sigh, Not this reasoning again. Mogg Fanatic dies to all black removal but it's still one of the best one-drops in standard.Tarmogoyf dies to all black removal but its still the best creature, ever.
Swans is part of a fantastic combo, one that allows you to draw through your deck then Conflagrate your opponent for 20.
EDIT: Not sure if that combo is the best, but its the only one I could think of right now.
Using Swans with Wave of Reckoning is also a good idea. Draw four cards and get rid of everything on the board, leaving you with a flying beater? Sign me up! (I know it's not legal in standard, but I thought it's so tricky, I could mention it here)
U guys can go ahead and keep thinking swans r bad until it becomes a format defining cards and spawns a couple news decks and you all forget that a 4/3 flyer for 4 is a 5 turn clock for white and blue and is really hard to kill
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Name five creatures played on a regular basis in Standard that don't die to some piece of removal that someone might play.
"This creature is terrible, it dies to removal" is the worst argument against using a creature that anyone has come up with. I don't understand why people keep using it.
Hey, you. Yes, you reading this sig. Get off your computer, go find a copy of Skies of Arcadia: Legends and play it. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.
Your point about the Swans is even more true, though, since blue and white have absolutely no way to protect creatures against removal. Thus, the Swans are particularly awful.
I'd say the Demigod of Revenge will be played heavily and is removal-resilient.
and i hope this was sarcasm:
"Your point about the Swans is even more true, though, since blue and white have absolutely no way to protect creatures against removal. Thus, the Swans are particularly awful."
Swan-Assault deck can kill oponent in resp on removal\disenchant spell.
Wait...is it suddenly immune to Crib Swap and Condemn?
Hey, you. Yes, you reading this sig. Get off your computer, go find a copy of Skies of Arcadia: Legends and play it. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.
It's an interesting card to say the least.
True, if you're going to play blue white, you might be better with control, but this guy is not straight blue white... He's more likely meant for blue red or white red.
*fixed (granted, a Goyf does not usually die to nameless inversion, but it still can)
Yeah you have a point there (its been a while seen I've ran into anything running white for more then aven riftwatcher, oblivion ring, mirror entity, and reveillark) either way neither option nets the opposing player new cards. I am just trying to say that there aren't a lot of good removal options for it that net the other player a few more card draws which makes it a 4/3 flier for 4 which is pretty nice.
its like saying
Tarmogoyf is bad because it dies to terror.
Scion of Oona is bad because it dies to Sudden Shock
Sower of temptation sucks because a Shock kills it
Birds of paradise sucks because every removal spell kills it
Revilark is bad because cribswap gets rid of it
Doran is bad because lightning axe kills it
Ohran viper is bad because incinerate kills it.
Planeswalkers are bad because i can lava axe them.
And we all know they arent true.
Bad players will play Swans and only bad players will lose to Swans.
no one plays Terror.
no one plays Sudden Shock
This is true, and a good reason why Sower isn't format-dominating. The reason it's played is that it's a 1-card combo for a ton of tempo and card advantage, and even if they kill it you're not set back much.
for more than you spent for the Birds, earning you free tempo...
no one plays Crib Swap
no one plays Lightning Axe
correct, and thus no one plays Ohran Viper
no one plays... do you see my point yet?
A.K.A
Fail troll is fail.
fixed
if you play them you should win within that or the next turn or your deck is built to abuse/negate it's drawback on a longterm.
Its drawback is that it's a 4/3 flyer for 4 with no meaningful protection (and with a instant-game-loss drawback against burn, which is prevalent). Your opponent will spend two or three mana to kill it, earning them tempo, and bringing you closer to your demise. You will play it with high hopes, and then your opponent will immediately remove it, and you will be sad.
This is a good example of the thinking that leads people to think Swans are good. With another card, sure, they can be good. But what if you only draw the other card (which, like Seismic Assault and Fatal Attraction, is probably unplayable on its own) and not the Swans, or the Swans and not the other card? Instant Lose. Just play a good deck with good cards.
I just realized that I should actually be playing up the Swans so that I can dump them quick when their price is inflated, so I'll be leaving now. They're actually great, format-defining even, so I won't let them go for less than a Tarmagoyf a piece, because they're worth it. Really.
/sigh, Not this reasoning again. Mogg Fanatic dies to all black removal but it's still one of the best one-drops in standard.Tarmogoyf dies to all black removal but its still the best creature, ever.
Swans is part of a fantastic combo, one that allows you to draw through your deck then Conflagrate your opponent for 20.
EDIT: Not sure if that combo is the best, but its the only one I could think of right now.
However, Underworld Dreams is, unless I'm mistaken.
The creator of Maro's Magic 8-Ball!