Wizards is indeed trying to toss interesting new creature types into the mix. After seeing that Rusalka were based on European mythology, I thought I'd see if Nephilim were or were just a made-up word. Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim
"In the Hebrew Bible and several non-canonical Jewish and early Christian writings, nephilim (in Hebrew הנּפלים means the fallen [ones]) are a people created by the cross-breeding of the "sons of God" (beney ha'elohim, בני האלהים) and the "daughters of men". (See Genesis 6:1.) The word nephilim is loosely translated as giants or titans in some Bibles, and is left untranslated in others."
Wah? That's a bit weird. I find it interesting that WotC would use a mainstream religion as a source for their mythology, which might offend people. Also, the Nephilim in the bible were supposed to be half-angel super men...but the one we've seen so far is a weird, one-eyed snake monster. What's up with that?
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If evolution is outlawed, then only outlaws will evolve.
Nephilim in mainstream Abrahamic traditions were basically an attempt to explain all the mythical monsters away that other cultures kept talking about in their religion. When it turned out that explaining them away was more or meaningless, since they didn't exist, Nephilim sorta fell by the wayside and most texts relating to them were declared apocryphal.
In non-mainstream Abrahamic religions, of course, Nephilim meant a wide variety of things, from proof that God was an imperfect Demiurge (Gnostics) to proof that man was as divine as the angels. Most of those heretical faiths were rather violently stamped out prior to 400 AD.
Nephilim, although generally translated as "giants" or "titans," really referred to a kind of semi divine being of immense power. Part of the confusion lies in the definition of angels; they are more like the titans of Greek myth, monstrous in form and size, than like the angels people think of today. Their children, of course, would be similar monstrous looking. Angels were intended to inspire awe and terror, not look pretty.
Of course, there's a chance I'm mistaken somewhere. Someone with more theological knowledge should feel free to correct me.
Nephilim make a lot of sense for 4-color creatures, IMO. They come from stories designed to ward people away from specific kinds of behavior. The most distinctive thing about 4-color creatures is that they are NOT the other color.
And we have had references to mainstream religion that are plenty more specific than Nephilim, who have little more than a passing reference in any religion.
And I believe Lord Dralnu to be mythological. I assert that he does not exist, and since nobody can prove me wrong, I must be right.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Swords to Plowshares is a quote pulled from Psalms. Wrath of God couldn't be more religious if the picture was Jesus smacking demons with a jug of Holy Water. Elves used to be worshipped in pagan religion to yield more crops. Germans thought that Goblins were evil spirits, and called them Kobolds. The term 'Zealot' refers to the Jewish warriors of Masada, a mountain in Israel. Sphixes are self explanatory.
Magic the Gathering is SOAKED in religious references.
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"No...I'm going to kill that."
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Swords to Plowshares is a quote pulled from Psalms. Wrath of God couldn't be more religious if the picture was Jesus smacking demons with a jug of Holy Water. Elves used to be worshipped in pagan religion to yield more crops. Germans thought that Goblins were evil spirits, and called them Kobolds. The term 'Zealot' refers to the Jewish warriors of Masada, a mountain in Israel. Sphixes are self explanatory.
Magic the Gathering is SOAKED in religious references.
I completely agree. The whole time no one has seemed to have a problem with it. I mean some religious people still say Magic deals with the occult and all that stuff but the worst Magic has had to do so far is remove Demons as a creature and references to demons. But they have since returned.
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I completely agree. The whole time no one has seemed to have a problem with it. I mean some religious people still say Magic deals with the occult and all that stuff but the worst Magic has had to do so far is remove Demons as a creature and references to demons. But they have since returned.
That's because we can knock them around with stuff like Akroma, thereby fulfulling Biblical prophecy.
...Yeah.
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"I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity; in our common stupidity."
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
In non-mainstream Abrahamic religions, of course, Nephilim meant a wide variety of things, from proof that God was an imperfect Demiurge (Gnostics) to proof that man was as divine as the angels. Most of those heretical faiths were rather violently stamped out prior to 400 AD.
Being a Gnostic myself, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't call my faith "heretical", as heresy is often (if not, always) associated with error, with madmen, and more often it is associated with evil. But that's just me being nitpicky.
Back on topic, I believe that what Wizards was aiming for with Nephilim was a combination of a these two explanations.
Quote from carrion pigeons »
Nephilim make a lot of sense for 4-color creatures, IMO. They come from stories designed to ward people away from specific kinds of behavior. The most distinctive thing about 4-color creatures is that they are NOT the other color.
Quote from Destrius »
Nephilim, although generally translated as "giants" or "titans," really referred to a kind of semi divine being of immense power. Part of the confusion lies in the definition of angels; they are more like the titans of Greek myth, monstrous in form and size, than like the angels people think of today. Their children, of course, would be similar monstrous looking. Angels were intended to inspire awe and terror, not look pretty.
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Getting the last word does not mean that you win the argument.
Being a Gnostic myself, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't call my faith "heretical", as heresy is often (if not, always) associated with error, with madmen, and more often it is associated with evil. But that's just me being nitpicky.
Back on topic, I believe that what Wizards was aiming for with Nephilim was a combination of a these two explanations.
Apologies, but I was running off the technical definition of heresy. According to www.dictionary.com, heresy is "an opinion or a doctrine at variance with established religious beliefs, especially dissension from or denial of Roman Catholic dogma by a professed believer or baptized church member."
I tend not to think of it as a matter of madmen or error, but I can see where people would. Sorry for any insult that may have been given.
If you want to go back even further you will find that grigori is the hebrew equivilant of anunaki from the Sumerian/Assyrian/Akadian/Babalonian mythos. The Anuniki (those from heaven to earth came) were the gods. They came to earth, created man as a servant, gave them knowledge (the ability to procreate), and then had children with them. Enlil the Anunaki that was in charge of earth was outraged by this cross breading and he broght the flood to wipe out man and the unholy half gods. The Hebrew stories are nothing new, but then again the Hebrew were just decendents of the Sumerians after all.
I'm better versed in Greek mythology, but the way I heard it (I may be wrong) is that the Nephilim were a sect of angels that were cast down from heaven for stealing treasures from heaven, and were hunted by the seraphim, the "angels" we think of today. As punishment, God took away the immortality of the Nephilim. In order to keep the treasures from God (my source is very vague as to what these treasures were) they absorbed them into their bodies and mated with humans, creating children that were part angel with part of the treasures in them as well. It was the Seraphim, I believe, that were supposed to be ruthless and hideous killing machines, but as Wizards has already done Seraphim as hot women with wings, they had to use Nephilim instead. Oh yeah, and the Titans were the first children of Gaea, or Mother Earth (another Magic mythological reference), and the Titans were the beautiful God-like creatures. The second set of children were the Cyclops, only mildly ugly and deformed. The third set of children, the truly deformed and hideous creatures, were the Tartarans. If anyone wants to read more about Nephilim and Seraphim, read Silk and Murder of Angels by Caitlin R. Kiernan. They are really great books.
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In Modern:
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I will point out something I pointed out (that sounds wierd) in another thread, that the Nephilim have featured prominently in another fantasy game - the Avernum series made by Spiderweb Software.
Check out this thread discussing the potential link.
Note that Slith also feature prominently in the Spiderweb games, and SW was definitely around before the MTG creatures of the same name.
Avernum Nephilim are basically cat warriors. Just like Avernum Sliths are basically lizardmen. They bear no relation to the magic creatures of the same type. If an avernum slithzererkai was in MTG it would have type "Lizard Warrior" or similar; if an Avernum Niphil was in MTG it would have type "Cat Warrior" or similar.
And MTG will not have GIFTS (Giant intelligent friendly talking spiders).
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"In the Hebrew Bible and several non-canonical Jewish and early Christian writings, nephilim (in Hebrew הנּפלים means the fallen [ones]) are a people created by the cross-breeding of the "sons of God" (beney ha'elohim, בני האלהים) and the "daughters of men". (See Genesis 6:1.) The word nephilim is loosely translated as giants or titans in some Bibles, and is left untranslated in others."
Wah? That's a bit weird. I find it interesting that WotC would use a mainstream religion as a source for their mythology, which might offend people. Also, the Nephilim in the bible were supposed to be half-angel super men...but the one we've seen so far is a weird, one-eyed snake monster. What's up with that?
In non-mainstream Abrahamic religions, of course, Nephilim meant a wide variety of things, from proof that God was an imperfect Demiurge (Gnostics) to proof that man was as divine as the angels. Most of those heretical faiths were rather violently stamped out prior to 400 AD.
Nephilim, although generally translated as "giants" or "titans," really referred to a kind of semi divine being of immense power. Part of the confusion lies in the definition of angels; they are more like the titans of Greek myth, monstrous in form and size, than like the angels people think of today. Their children, of course, would be similar monstrous looking. Angels were intended to inspire awe and terror, not look pretty.
Of course, there's a chance I'm mistaken somewhere. Someone with more theological knowledge should feel free to correct me.
Gee what group voilently stammped out all Heritics? Hmmm......
Dont call it Mythology, People belive this is true. The Bible IS infallable you know. :tongue3:
If you use Frank Karsten`s Online Tech to see how popular a specific deck is, I just made it twice as efficient. You`re welcome.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/fk23 (read the end)
And Flores is apparently jelous....
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mf130 (read the first real paragraph)
Please don't attribute quotes to me that I didn't say.
Nephilim make a lot of sense for 4-color creatures, IMO. They come from stories designed to ward people away from specific kinds of behavior. The most distinctive thing about 4-color creatures is that they are NOT the other color.
And we have had references to mainstream religion that are plenty more specific than Nephilim, who have little more than a passing reference in any religion.
And I believe Lord Dralnu to be mythological. I assert that he does not exist, and since nobody can prove me wrong, I must be right.
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Magic the Gathering is SOAKED in religious references.
"You're going to fight that?!"
"No...I'm going to kill that."
A GAME OF THRONES ON HBO!!!! AAAAAH~!!!!
I completely agree. The whole time no one has seemed to have a problem with it. I mean some religious people still say Magic deals with the occult and all that stuff but the worst Magic has had to do so far is remove Demons as a creature and references to demons. But they have since returned.
Funny how when i hit the quote button, it put your name in there.
Im not out to get you. Perhaps its the forum software itself, that secretly has it in for you.
Back on subject, Dont forget the pentagram in Unholy Strength back in the day. Contemporary Religion isnt totally out of the range of Wizards.
If you use Frank Karsten`s Online Tech to see how popular a specific deck is, I just made it twice as efficient. You`re welcome.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/fk23 (read the end)
And Flores is apparently jelous....
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mf130 (read the first real paragraph)
That's because we can knock them around with stuff like Akroma, thereby fulfulling Biblical prophecy.
...Yeah.
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
Nehphilim =Neh fill eem
"You're going to fight that?!"
"No...I'm going to kill that."
A GAME OF THRONES ON HBO!!!! AAAAAH~!!!!
I am also a DCI Level 1 Judge, if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask them in the Rulings forum.
Being a Gnostic myself, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't call my faith "heretical", as heresy is often (if not, always) associated with error, with madmen, and more often it is associated with evil. But that's just me being nitpicky.
Back on topic, I believe that what Wizards was aiming for with Nephilim was a combination of a these two explanations.
Apologies, but I was running off the technical definition of heresy. According to www.dictionary.com, heresy is "an opinion or a doctrine at variance with established religious beliefs, especially dissension from or denial of Roman Catholic dogma by a professed believer or baptized church member."
I tend not to think of it as a matter of madmen or error, but I can see where people would. Sorry for any insult that may have been given.
Silk and Murder of Angels by Caitlin R. Kiernan. They are really great books.
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
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Check out this thread discussing the potential link.
Note that Slith also feature prominently in the Spiderweb games, and SW was definitely around before the MTG creatures of the same name.
Conspiracy?
And MTG will not have GIFTS (Giant intelligent friendly talking spiders).