Just wanted to check something, if you use the channel ability of something like Shinen of Life Roar does it count as playing a spirit spell for all those charging creatures and spiritcraft triggers?
So if I have Kodama of the South Tree in play and channel Ghost-lit Raider to burn a blocker do all my other creatures get +1/+1 and trample?
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Do these use the stack? Can they be countered/redirected? They retain the colour of their original card (such a a red damage source), what other characteristics?
I'm sure on a normal day I wouldn't even have to ask these questions, but my brain seems to have taken annual leave today!
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Do these use the stack? Can they be countered/redirected? They retain the colour of their original card (such a a red damage source), what other characteristics?
They do use the stack. As they are activated abilities, very few cards can counter them(I think the only ones are Stifle, Squelch, Bind, Interdict), and even fewer can redirect them(offhand, only Willbender). They do retain the color and other characteristics.
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They do retain the color and other characteristics.
But not the spell subtypes like "creature" and "Spirit" or mana cost I take it? If a creature has the "Protection from Creatures" ability, does it protect them from a Channeled Ghost-lit Raider?
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I'm old school, about as OLD school as they get. think 4th Edition/Ice Age old school. Unfortunatley in the "Real world" you cant Incinerate your bank manager and sadly now I have joined the ranks of the older population, and my time is taken up by things like reasearching Mortgage Refinance Rates and where to get the best possible mortgage quotes. I have however discovered the joys of Online Forex Trading which at least allows me to keep the bills in check!
It's not casting a spell so it would not look at spell subtypes like spirit. You're using an activated ability from your hand, much like cycling a card like slice and dice. If you cycle slice and dice, slice and dice deals the damage to each creature so it can be prevented by pro red and pro sorcery abilities. Likewise a ghost lit raider/jiwari's damage is prevented by a pro red or pro creature ability. Unless of course I'm mistaken but since it says "ghost lit raider deals 4 damage to target creature" and ghost lit raider is still a creature card while in your graveyard (where the ability would be coming from) the damage should be prevented. Heck, I think you wouldn't be able to target them even, but if you were using Jiwari the damage would still be countered.
Actually I'm not positive on this. I'll have to ask a judge or something.
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in your hand is not a creature, it is a creature card. Similarly on the stack, it is a Creature Spell (or a creature card). Any effects that refer to it as a creature only take account if the creature is in play. A creature with Protection from Creatures can still be targetted by Channel abilities.
As was said, on the stack, the Shinen is still white, so something with protection of White will be protected from the White Shinen. It's a white creature spell.
I don't think a creature with protection from creatures can be targetted with channel, since the source of the ability is a creature card.
I am under the impression that channel is somewhat similar to cycling (both are activated abilities).
Protection
Protection is a static ability, written "Protection from [quality]." See rule 502.7, "Protection."
A permanent with protection can't be targeted by spells with the stated quality and can't be targeted by abilities from a source with the stated quality.
A permanent with protection can't be enchanted by enchantments that have the stated quality. Such enchantments enchanting the permanent with protection will be put into their owners' graveyards as a state-based effect. (See rule 420, "State-Based Effects.")
A permanent with protection can't be equipped by Equipment that has the stated quality. Such Equipment stops equipping that permanent, but remains in play. (See rule 420, "State-Based Effects.")
Any damage that would be dealt by sources that have the stated quality to a permanent that has protection is prevented.
Any damage that would be dealt to a permanent with protection from sources having that quality is prevented.
If a creature with protection attacks, it can't be blocked by creatures that have the stated quality.
Also... this should be in the rules forum...?
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Reference the official ruling for Gempalm Incinerator:
"Oct 4, 2004 - The target of the ability can't be a creature with Protection from Creatures, with Protection from Goblins, or with Protection from Red."
Channel is the same concept. You cannot target a creature that has "Protection from Creatures" with Ghost-lit Raider's Channel ability.
They do use the stack. As they are activated abilities, very few cards can counter them(I think the only ones are Stifle, Squelch, Bind, Interdict), and even fewer can redirect them(offhand, only Willbender). They do retain the color and other characteristics.
Interdict can only counter activated abilities of permanents, so that wouldn't work.
As I see it then, Channel is an activated ability of a creatures card. For the ourposes of targeting etc. it retains all the characteristics of the card (i.e. colour, card type, cost etc.)
Protection from Red and Protection for Creatures would both stop the protected creature from being targeted by a Channel. I take it that by extension then that it retains the subtype "spirit" and that creatureswiht Prot. Spirits like Kitsune Riftwalker can't be targeted by it?
They should have just made this a split card so that it would work with Spiritcraft decks when Chanelled! Would also make this a bit clearer and made this discussion pointless.
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So if I have Kodama of the South Tree in play and channel Ghost-lit Raider to burn a blocker do all my other creatures get +1/+1 and trample?
I'm sure on a normal day I wouldn't even have to ask these questions, but my brain seems to have taken annual leave today!
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They do use the stack. As they are activated abilities, very few cards can counter them(I think the only ones are Stifle, Squelch, Bind, Interdict), and even fewer can redirect them(offhand, only Willbender). They do retain the color and other characteristics.
That's how to remember my name. Or, you could just read the Discworld Novels by Terry Pratchett. I recommend the second method.:)
And dear god, it's on the INTERNET! It has to be true!
...riight.
But not the spell subtypes like "creature" and "Spirit" or mana cost I take it? If a creature has the "Protection from Creatures" ability, does it protect them from a Channeled Ghost-lit Raider?
Actually I'm not positive on this. I'll have to ask a judge or something.
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As was said, on the stack, the Shinen is still white, so something with protection of White will be protected from the White Shinen. It's a white creature spell.
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I am under the impression that channel is somewhat similar to cycling (both are activated abilities).
Also... this should be in the rules forum...?
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"Oct 4, 2004 - The target of the ability can't be a creature with Protection from Creatures, with Protection from Goblins, or with Protection from Red."
Channel is the same concept. You cannot target a creature that has "Protection from Creatures" with Ghost-lit Raider's Channel ability.
Interdict can only counter activated abilities of permanents, so that wouldn't work.
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It can be countered by Stifle, Bind and Squelch and yes Pithing Needle can premptively counter it.
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If Mod's want to move this, go right ahead.
As I see it then, Channel is an activated ability of a creatures card. For the ourposes of targeting etc. it retains all the characteristics of the card (i.e. colour, card type, cost etc.)
Protection from Red and Protection for Creatures would both stop the protected creature from being targeted by a Channel. I take it that by extension then that it retains the subtype "spirit" and that creatureswiht Prot. Spirits like Kitsune Riftwalker can't be targeted by it?
They should have just made this a split card so that it would work with Spiritcraft decks when Chanelled! Would also make this a bit clearer and made this discussion pointless.